Well according to this Wired article (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,71743-0.html?tw=rss.index) Americans are more likely to be killed via gunshot from the police than they are from terrorism.

That's disturbing.

I'd have thought it was GOOD news to find that the threat of terrorism isn't as huge as some would have us believe..

I find it more disturbing that it's 14 times more likely that my house will burn down than that I will win the lottery. And that's IF I play.. :)

Your odds of winning the lottery don't actually improve significantly by playing it, though.

Your odds of meeting your doom in a nasty accident with a partical accelerator and a rubber band are probably greater than your odds of dying from a terrorist attack.

/derail on
and your chances of getting mauled to death by a pitbull/Shepherd/<insert_dog_breed_here> are even less than your chances of dying in a terrorist attack.
/derail off

Well according to this Wired article (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,71743-0.html?tw=rss.index) Americans are more likely to be killed via gunshot from the police than they are from terrorism.Terrorism isn't as predictable as cops killing you. It's not as if X people per year are regularly killed by it. The next terrorist attack could be a nuclear weapon that kills millions.

That said, I believe the true threat from terrorism to the average citizen is just about zero.

That sorta seems like fudging the numbers

Pretty much everyone killed by Terrorism is innocent.

I'd wager the amount of people shot and killed by cops who are innocent is not much.

Too many? Probably, but most of the 4k listed? Doubtful.

I'm also sure that some of the people shot by cops while they commited a crime, they shouldn't have been shot... but well, I dont commit crime, so its not even on my radar. (of course I'm not worried about being blown up by a terrorist either)

I'd have thought it was GOOD news to find that the threat of terrorism isn't as huge as some would have us believe..


No, what's disturbing is that law enforcement shot and killed nearly 4000 people over the past 11 years...

I'd be interested to know of how many of those 4000 people had a gun or were a threat to someone else, and how many were just gunned down without good cause

I wonder where your chances of dying due to a coconut falling on your head are?

Regarding the OP:

What an obscenely meaningless comparison. As if the unverse was all random numbers.

Some events are unpredictable, and so we talk about them in terms of probability. We say that your chances of experiancing this event are x%, since we assume that this probability applies to all people equally. (More accurately, we say that your probability of experiencing this event are adequately modeled by assuming a random x% chance that you will experiance it). Terrorist attacks fall into this category.

Other events are not unpredictable -- we understand factors that affect their liklihood of occurring. We dont say 'x% chance of getting lung cancer', we say 'x% chance of getting lung cancer if you smoke cigarettes'. We do this because we know lung cancer is related to smoking. Grouping all classes (smokers and non-smokers) into the statement does not predict the outcome as well as consideirng them seperately.

'People who got shot by police officers' and 'terrorism victims' are in no way comparable groups. People who got shot by police officers out of nowehere, while going about their legitimate business, is the appropriate comparison.

I had a great experience with the police today. Someone broke into my house. Anyway, the cop who filed the report looked into my "junk" drawer as I was pawing around to see if any keys or things were stolen and he saw my DnD dice and commented about seeing someone else was an old-style gamer. :p Definitely a kindred spirit.

BTW: They got into my house from a 2nd story window that I had left open for fresh air. The way they got up was by using the moulding around my doors and windows that sticks out maybe half an inch or so. Quite a climbing feat.

Pan, I'm really sorry that someone entered your home. It's a shame that we have to keep our lives so battened down and our children so closely guarded. I'm glad that you are safe and I hope nothing irreplaceable was taken.

No, what's disturbing is that law enforcement shot and killed nearly 4000 people over the past 11 years...

Is it? Why? Less than 400/year in a nation as large (population wise) as the US doesn't strike me as excessive, and I don't recall hearing numerous reports regarding unjustified police shootings every day when I turn on the news either. Anything above 0 is bad when we're talking about unjustified police shootings, but come on - the police have just as much right to self-defence as the rest of us do.

Pan, I'm really sorry that someone entered your home. It's a shame that we have to keep our lives so battened down and our children so closely guarded. I'm glad that you are safe and I hope nothing irreplaceable was taken.
I was just so surprised someone could reach my second story window. They used the moulding around the doors/windows that sticks out like 1/2". Pretty atheletic.

Oh, huge derail but.... does anyone know anything about survelliance cameras? I was thinking there might be technology like that out there now that wasn't too expensive and was easy to install.

Is it? Why? Less than 400/year in a nation as large (population wise) as the US doesn't strike me as excessive, and I don't recall hearing numerous reports regarding unjustified police shootings every day when I turn on the news either. Anything above 0 is bad when we're talking about unjustified police shootings, but come on - the police have just as much right to self-defence as the rest of us do.

No, as a matter of fact they do not. The police serve the People...they are not supposed to target them. They are paid to risk their life, not take other's. All too often we hear about unarmed people being shot dead by police.

Every year the police shoot unarmed people...and almost inevitably go unpunished.

Also consider that police shooting statistics are difficult to obtain nationally for the US and thus what national figures one sees are almost certainly under reported.

Consider in Prince George County, Maryland, alone, from 1990 to 2000 the police shot 122 people, 47 fatally; half of those being unarmed (United States of America
Amnesty International’s Concerns on Police Abuse in Prince George’s County, Maryland (http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engamr511262002)

The problem America has is simple. We take 18-20 year old boys (and girls)...with a high school education, and give them a badge and a gun and say "Go forth and enforce the law", and then we pay them 20,000 a year to deal with the subsection of our society who have the least trust or respect for the police...and it breeds a vicious circle of mutual hatred.

Our local police should be as highly educated, trained, and paid as the FBI. Police officers should be required to get a four year degree, with intensive ethics training..and it should be instilled in them that they serve the people. Commensurate with such an increase in educational requirements should come the appropriate increase in pay.

Turn our police forces in America into professionals. Not armed bullies and thugs still fondly remember their days of hanging the class nerd up by his underwear.

In the USMCR I met quite a few police officers who were my fellow Marine Reservists. They were generally nice guys...but inevitably they felt it was their right and due to do as they wish when on the job. If a suspect made them run...he was beaten. If he talked back to them...he was beaten. If the cop's wife found out that he had been to see his girlfriend last night while on the beat...someone that following shift was going to get beaten.

All too often we hear about unarmed people being shot dead by police.
Read Blink and you'll understand why. I never thought I'd be standing up for cops who shoot innocent unarmed people but I think I know why it happens now. And no, it isn't overt racism or bigotry.

Oh, huge derail but.... does anyone know anything about survelliance cameras? I was thinking there might be technology like that out there now that wasn't too expensive and was easy to install.Yes, you can get a networked (wired or wireless) webcam with a built-in web server that can be hosted on your home network. You can log in remotely from any location with a web browser, make recordings at home, or (in some models) have regular snapshots sent to your cell phone. Most models run about $150-$800, depending on features and quality. There's a line from D-Link, a couple of models by Panasonic, and some cheapo ones from Linksys, I think.

Yes, you can get a networked (wired or wireless) webcam with a built-in web server that can be hosted on your home network. You can log in remotely from any location with a web browser, make recordings at home, or (in some models) have regular snapshots sent to your cell phone. Most models run about $150-$800, depending on features and quality. There's a line from D-Link, a couple of models by Panasonic, and some cheapo ones from Linksys, I think.

Interesting. I wonder if they work with motion detectors.

Interesting. I wonder if they work with motion detectors.Some of them have built-in motion detection, and they will only update the image, record to your computer, or send you a cell phone image if they detect motion. The D-Link model I use (ftp://ftp.dlink.com/Multimedia/dcs6620/Manual/DCS6620_manual_100.zip) also has an external connector for various alarm devices, though I've never looked into it. The info is on page 131.

Interesting. I wonder if they work with motion detectors.
If you feel like doing a bit of coding it doesn't take too much to turn any digital camera (supported by WIA (http://windowssdk.msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms630368.aspx)) into a security camera. Acquire an image every n seconds, compare it with the last image, and save it if the image differs from the previous image by a predetermined threshold. The same technique works with wireless cameras that can be configured to take images at a specified interval and dump it to a directory.

Of course, I can just see it. I set up a camera and they steal the camera. :p Or they steal the thing the camera was recording to. Bleh! Maybe I should just stick to electronic dogs (http://www.shopfromyourhome.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=REX).

Of course, I can just see it. I set up a camera and they steal the camera. :p
Hmmm, now that remote control hunting (http://outdoors.mainetoday.com/news/050512hunting.shtml)has been banned in many places you should be able to pick up one of their rigs for a bargain price. You could then set up a "Protect Panamah's House" web site where visitors can use a web-based interface to control a rifle to shoot burglars attempting to break (or climb) into your house. Yeah, that's the ticket! Just be sure to shut it off before going out to do your yard work.

Maybe I should just stick to electronic dogs (http://www.shopfromyourhome.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=REX).
rofl -- Harris Telemacher had one of those things in LA Story.

rofl -- Harris Telemacher had one of those things in LA Story.
No kidding? :)

I'm really fond of my Doggie. My Dad discovered these "dogs" long, long ago and bought several. In fact, the dog catcher left a note on my parent's door that he needed to license his "dog". :) I guess they thought it was real. He wrote to the company that made them and they sent him one for free and used his testimonial and copied the citiation thing the dog catcher left.

After he passed away, I inherited one of them. My only problem with them is that they sense motion both fore and aft. So if you walk around the house you set it off. But maybe the new ones don't do that.

Now... if I could just rig up my Dog to turn on a light in the house and have a mean sounding man yell at the dog. Add a little more realism to the set up.

Or perhaps what I need is a dog that sounds like a shotgun being cocked.

Or perhaps what I need is a dog that sounds like a shotgun being cocked.
If you do, be sure to get a sign like this to go with it...
http://www.jameshagen.com/fun128.jpg

I never ceased to be amazed by the number of Americans that support their military but not their police. *shrug*

4000 deaths at the hands of police doesn't mean much without knowing more information. Wrongful death or killing an innocent bystander is one thing, killing someone who is shooting at an officer or citizens is totally different. I would suspect that in the vast majority of these the police action was justified.

A gunman shot 20 people in Montreal today. Although reports are still sketchy, there is some indication that the gunman was killed by police. I can't imagine anyone criticising the police in this kind of circumstance.

I find it more disturbing that 8000 Americans died in gun accidents. I wouldn't imagine that too many of these deaths were justified.

I totally agree that deaths caused by terrorists are minor compared to the precautions and press associated with terrorism. It falls right into the hands of terrorists. They kill a few and spread fear through many. How many freedoms are being compromised and eroded at the altar of fear?

I never ceased to be amazed by the number of Americans that support their military but not their police. *shrug*

If you are not in the military(or married to one or a Canadian), the odds of some GI Joe killing you is nill to none.

I know that I have had run-ins with asshole cops. Tudamorf disagrees with me about hormonal communication, but I know that I give off some anti-authoritarian libertarian 'un-scent' which makes these guys(and some gals) go off on me.

One of the reasons I have not yet traveled to Mexico, really. I would end up eating rats and cockroaches for years after a traffic stop. Midnight Express Mexican Style. "Ohhh, Bill-Lee!"

I know cops, and know their attitudes, "No one knows how many stairs there are in the back of a cruiser".

I got hassled by cops the very day, the very first day, that I saw Ice Tea and Body Count do "*F*ck the Police" at Lollapalloza 1 in the parking lot before the event.

I support them when they are after real bad guys, no doubt.

4000 deaths at the hands of police doesn't mean much without knowing more information. Wrongful death or killing an innocent bystander is one thing, killing someone who is shooting at an officer or citizens is totally different. I would suspect that in the vast majority of these the police action was justified.
Your suspicions are correct. According to Bureau of Justice Statistics (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/justify.htm) there were around 300-400+ justifiable homicides committed by police per year for the 11 year period covered in the Wired article (1995-2005).

The study defines "justifiable homicides" as "the killing of a felon by a law enforcement officer in the line of duty or the killing of a felon during the commission of a felony by a private citizen. "

Yeah, too bad 'in the line of duty' tends to mean whatever the cops say it means.

Oh, and Ice Tea did 'Cop Killa'. F*ck Da Police was done by NWA...and then covered live by RATM. I suppose Ice Tea could have covered it at Lallapallooza also, though.

Yup, you're right.

That was the chorus only. Not the title.

I know that I have had run-ins with asshole cops. Tudamorf disagrees with me about hormonal communication, but I know that I give off some anti-authoritarian libertarian 'un-scent' which makes these guys(and some gals) go off on me.
You do. I can smell it through my computer.