Well, looking at wizard's temporate staff, a favourite easy to get quest item among wizards, it's a low agro insta clicky 6fr/cr debuff that stacks with most things except... sunder/disjunction. But here's the thing, when they can wizards use ice spear and prexus, druids use moonfire and blizzard, shamans use a pair of cold nukes and torrent of poison. Depending on clickys people have and your magicians and necros there may be little to no fire being used, and since disjunction's AC/ATK debuff seems to literally be useless I guess it's time we give up debuffing mobs completely and let the wizards do it. 6 isn't much, but it's better than nothing.

lol :)

you really tend to get things too negatively.

with stacking rules on :
1st cast : Ro's Fiery Sundering
2nd cast : Fixation of Ro = ac neg18, atk neg60
3rd cast : Ro's Smoldering Disjunction = ac neg27, atk neg60, sv fire neg67 (overwrites RFS, but not FoR)

that makes :
ac neg45, atk neg120(!), sv fire neg67

Do you really think these numbers are useless ?
Do you really think a neg 6 or 7 on RF/RC makes any difference ?

*boggles*

EDIT :
i'm only talking about mobs that can be debuffed that way.
i'm not talking about "immune" fire debuff mobs.

on a hijacking note:

I think I just twisted my brain trying to decipher enough French to register for your boards Choliie. =P

Of course after I did all that..I found the option to make the instructional portions of the boards english.

Tak, boszhe moi.

"that makes :
ac neg45, atk neg120(!), sv fire neg67

Do you really think these numbers are useless ?"

Yes. The fire debuff is useful if you use fire on the mob, if not, it's useless. The AC and ATK debuffs certainly seem to have no effect on non boss mobs. On boss mobs it's much harder to test... who knows maybe it's a huge effect that just below what we can percieve =) but I'm betting that, like monks and druids, the AC and ATK just doesn't tell the whole story.

"Do you really think a neg 6 or 7 on RF/RC makes any difference ?"

Some mobs probably may get debuffed to a minimum but most won't. Malosini 60 and OOS (base) 10 are only n70. When you have 4 wizards, 2 druids and 2 shamans pounding nukes into it that extra 6cr probably does help, particuarly for prexus and blizzard.

I dunno, the rogue in my group notices a difference in his damage output when the AC/ATK is debuffed on the non-boss snakes in Shissar temple and the underbulks in the Deep when we hunt in those areas...

Debuffs. Here's the question I have to ask about RSD.

250 mana slight damage and massive debuffs. BUT...basically for non boss fights you're pretty much done on that mob unless you want to get pounded. All the snakes in the temple summon.

Does the additional damage laid on by the melees(I personally don't/haven't seen any) benefit more than 1150/1024 damage from a nuke. My guess would be no. In addition it's higher agro than those nukes. That is why I don't use it. 3K wasted.

Racmoor

any of the number crunchers will tell you the magic secret to debuffing mobs....

NUMBERS ADD UP!

the atk/ac from druid debuffs may not seem like much, but at any decent raid, they arent the only debuffs the mob gets.

asphyxiate: 40str 40agi
cripple: 75str 75agi 65dex 33ac
malo: 45f 45c 45m 45p 45d
rsd: 27ac 67f 60atk
fixation: 16ac 71atk
boro: 21ac 31f

for a total of 115str, 115agi, 65dex, 97ac, 131atk, 183f, 45c, 45m, 45d, 45p. the str debuff will lower atk and the agi debuff will lower ac, in addition to the direct debuffs. how these affect the target is not neccessarily easy to see, as its a function of atk/ac vs atk/ac of the tank, so it not only varies from mob to mob but from tank to tank.

these arent the only debuffs that the boss mob is likely to see either. oos, tash, misc sk debuffs.... and the magic part is that it all adds up. if it stacks, it adds. and with the debuff limit increasing very soon, there is absolutely no reason NOT to use our debuffs.

for "yard trash", its often not worth the debuff as they dont exactly last a long time. its the long extended fights that you see most benefit from your debuffs.

I'd agree with Kalinn on this one. It's almost silly to waste 250 mana debuffing every single mob... especially if melees are hitting it just fine and the mobs are going to be dead within 30 seconds anyway. Your mana is better spent on a spot heal or two.

The bigger mobs, fights that last a few minutes at least, are the ones where you might actually reap significant benefit from RSD debuffing.

Don't get me wrong... RSD is a very good spell in my opinion ... but its best use is in conjunction with other class debuffs to level out an encounter's difficulty. You'll see a significant difference for certain debuffs like Slow, but other debuffs have a more subtle impact, individually.

~Firemynd

Just a small correction to Kalinn's numbers:

None of the Mal"x" line of spells have a disease debuffing component. That's another line of spells.

Hey, we DO have a cold debuff. It's called "Fire", level 49 spell. Debuffs cold by 50.

Granted, it sux rocks; but it's out there. I'm not sure if anyone actually uses it to Cold Debuff becuase of it's limitations. I sure don't. An upgrade Cold Debuff ( which we DO get, see above) would be very much appreciated Verant/SoE!!!

Wyte Pyscnosis <Ordo Malleus>
60 Dooid - Rallos Zek

oops yeah i always forget that disease part. on the other hand, if you need disease debuff, then you use insidious decay which is only 40 but unresistable.

the other resist debuff numbers also go up by 15 if malosini is landed on top of malo.