Looks like the religous zealots win yet again.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060930/wr_nm/congress_tech_gambling_dc


ost forms of Internet gambling would be banned under a bill that received final U.S. congressional approval early Saturday.

The House of Representatives and Senate approved the measure and sent it to President George W. Bush to sign into law.

The bill, a compromise between earlier versions passed by the two chambers, would make it illegal for banks and credit card companies to make payments to online gambling sites.

I'm not sure about the religious zealots part. I think it's a clash of personal freedoms and public protection. On-line gambling is an addictive vice to many stupid people. It's also a great moneymaker for clever con-men. I have mixed feelings about this. Outright banning is inappropriate. Regulation IS appropriate, in my opinion.

There's actually chemical imbalances or brain injuries that can cause chronic gambling. I remember reading about a side-effect of a Parkinson's disease drug that can cause compulsive gambling.

I was pondering this on the way into work. Is banning Internet gambling, or at least this particular bill, good or bad? I decided it was good. Using a credit card for gambling is a recipe for disaster! People often have outrageous limits that are well beyond their means. Banks often give far more credit than people can really handle, couple that with a compulsion and you've got someone seriously in trouble.

Regulation IS appropriate, in my opinion.
I couldn't agree more. The UK was smart and started regulating online gaming and now they make more than $3 billion dollars per year in taxes.


There's actually chemical imbalances or brain injuries that can cause chronic gambling. I remember reading about a side-effect of a Parkinson's disease drug that can cause compulsive gambling.

I was pondering this on the way into work. Is banning Internet gambling, or at least this particular bill, good or bad? I decided it was good. Using a credit card for gambling is a recipe for disaster! People often have outrageous limits that are well beyond their means. Banks often give far more credit than people can really handle, couple that with a compulsion and you've got someone seriously in trouble.

If what you are saying is true then all forms of gambling should be illegal, not just online gambling. 48 states have legal gambling of some form and it would be just as easy for somebody who is addicted to gambling to feed their "addiction" at the casino down the street. This can't fall into the same category as "One bad apple ruins it for the whole bunch". Just because a small percentage of people can't control their addiction doesn't mean that the rest of us responsible adults should be punished. There are people who abuse alcohol and have to go through treatment to kick the habit. There are people who drink and drive and kill innocent people. Why isn't alcohol banned?

I personally find gambling is like... walking around with a chicken on top of your head. I can't figure out why people do it. They know the chicken is going to poop up there, squawk and just be a problem. Ok, silly comparison but still, that's how odd I find gambling.

Can you use a credit card in a casino?

Gambling *IS* illegal in much of the US and has been for a long, long time. I know in my state that it isn't legal except for the state lottery and on indian reservations. So it isn't like anything new is happening here. They're just applying existing laws to new technology.

Can you use a credit card in a casino?

Yes, there are ATM's about every 5 feet.


I personally find gambling is like... walking around with a chicken on top of your head. I can't figure out why people do it. They know the chicken is going to poop up there, squawk and just be a problem. Ok, silly comparison but still, that's how odd I find gambling.


I think the same thing about smoking cigerettes but I don't care if people smoke in the comfort of their own homes.


Gambling *IS* illegal in much of the US and has been for a long, long time. I know in my state that it isn't legal except for the state lottery and on indian reservations. So it isn't like anything new is happening here. They're just applying existing laws to new technology.
So, certain types of gambling are worse than others? State lottery and horse tracks are ok but slot machines are worse? What types of gambling are worse than others?

Ok, but you're limited to withdrawing a certain amount of cash per day at an ATM. I'm guessing that on the Internet the casino's were probably allowing unlimited amount of charges on credit cards.

I'm not interested in debating whether or not gambling should be allowed. But if you're going to have laws about it, might as well be consistent.

Personally I think Gambling should be legalized and regulated in California.

Indian Gaming is bunk

But if you're going to have laws about it, might as well be consistent.

I couldn't agree more. If internet gambling is illegal then all gambling needs to be illegal.

On-line gambling is an addictive vice to many stupid people. It's also a great moneymaker for clever con-men.So is regular gambling. The management doesn't come over to you after a few hours and say, "ok, Thicket, you've lost <i>too</i> much money at this table, you should go home and rest." On the contrary, they do everything in their power to keep you there, losing money, until you collapse or go broke.Ok, but you're limited to withdrawing a certain amount of cash per day at an ATM. I'm guessing that on the Internet the casino's were probably allowing unlimited amount of charges on credit cards.You can take a cash advance on your credit card, the limit for which is often at or near the limit of the credit card.

Also, the online gaming companies have approached the US government on several occasions asking them to regulate and tax online gaming. The UK was smart and took their offer and now several large gaming sites are starting to appear there and the government is making a fortune collecting on the taxes.

Actually Nevada gaming laws require casinos to suggest that you leave the table or slots after a certain amount of hours. You can, of course, reject the suggestion and go on gaming till you "collapse," but the casinos are supposed to make the effort of suggesting it. This requires an observant Pit Boss or Slot Host, but you'd be surprised exactly how observant those guys are. As for Vegas, the capital of gaming, the town is actually turning into a semi-family desination as well. While the major money maker is still gambling, they rake in sh!tloads of cash on the shows, food, drinking, and other attractions outside of the general gambling arena.

Personally, I enjoy gambling, I think it's fun and I think my favorite vacation destination is Vegas at the moment. Is gambling addictive? Hell yeah, like most things involving a fair amount of chance, the human condition makes you believe you can defy the odds and break the bank or that with one more pull you'll hit that jackpot. However, every time I go to Vegas, I go with a set amount that I'm allowing myself to spend - whether I lose it all or win back twice what I gambled, I'm not putting any hardship on myself. Are there people with a true gambling addiction? Yes, I believe that GA (like AA) exists for a reason. Do I think that online gambling requires regulation? Yes, but I think banning is going a bit too far. Like dedra pointed out, there's a huge cash cow waiting to get milked by the government - taxes galore.

Oh, and Pana - when you take withdrawls from the ATMs in Vegas, you are only limited to your credit card's limit. You can do normal cash advances from your personal bank account (which normally have day to day limits), advances on your credit cards (which normally have a hard limit - not day to day), or for a fee, the casino will put through a normal charge and give you cash - generally the fee is around 4-8% of the total withdrawn, which from what I understand is usually what the credit card people charge the merchant. So, no, even though they are ATM machines, they are not really capped the way you think they normally are.

So is regular gambling. The management doesn't come over to you after a few hours and say, "ok, Thicket, you've lost <i>too</i> much money at this table, you should go home and rest." On the contrary, they do everything in their power to keep you there, losing money, until you collapse or go broke.You can take a cash advance on your credit card, the limit for which is often at or near the limit of the credit card.

Absolutely correct. Gambling addiction is a serious social issue. One way of 'regulating' the gambling addiction is restricting access. You have to physically be at a casino to gamble. Similarly, restricting the number of VLTs (video lottery terminals) in bars reduces gambling -- this was amply demonstrated over the last 6 years in my province, and a neighbouring one. On-line gambling has no such restrictions... yet.

I've personally seen someone in urine-soaked pants sitting at a slot machine refusing to leave because the big jackpot was just a few more tries away.

y wife and I went to Las Vegas for a week. Our gambling budget was $10 each, total for the entire week. It was a struggle to spend it. We'd sit down to spend a couple of bucks. We'd throw a quarter into a slot or poker machine. Every once in a while we'd win back some of our money. It was b-o-r-i-n-g. If things dragged out too long, we'd throw in three quarters so we would lose faster :) .

The shows, the food and the glitzy atmosphere... now that was worth going for.

I don't know the right answer to gambling addiction. On one hand, there are huge amounts of cash going into government coffers. This isn't costing me a cent. On the other hand, there is poverty and misery as a result of gambling. *Shrug*. Without trying to solve everything gambling related, I maintain that on-line gambling regulation is required.

or for a fee, the casino will put through a normal charge and give you cash - generally the fee is around 4-8% of the total withdrawn, which from what I understand is usually what the credit card people charge the merchant.They <i>are</i> con artists. The average credit card discount fee is around 2.5% + $0.25, so they're milking the addicts for all they can. If you look around a casino, there are no clocks or windows, so you can keep on gambling without even noticing how long you've been there.

It was b-o-r-i-n-g. If things dragged out too long, we'd throw in three quarters so we would lose faster .
That's exactly my reaction. I had to go to Las Vegas quite a few times for meetings, etc. I hate the place. I find casinos are actually kind of revolting. The noise of it really sets my teeth on edge. It just seems like a fake sort of glitter. Like a cheap kids tiara. Sure it glitters from a distance, but you can see the cheap plastic right beyond the peeling paint and phoney rhinestones.

The only thing that Las Vegas brings to mind is the word "tawdry". Not the fun, campy tawdry that doesn't take itself too seriously (like Mars Attacks!), but tawdry that takes itself seriously. Yuck!

Anyway, I guess my feeling for gambling are wrapped up in my feelings for the place that exists because of it.

Yes, by all means, lets ban anything that might be bad for us.

Idiots

All the British companies that run the online gambling are calling it US protectionism and want the British government to do something. I suspect it's just Bush trying to impose his moral values over as many people as he can. Either way, gambling will continue in new ways and new forms that bend the laws. Will US citizens be able to open overseas accounts and gamble online with those?

All the British companies that run the online gambling are calling it US protectionism...


it's just Bush trying to impose his moral values over as many people as he can.


Exactly. It was actually Sen Bill Frist (Rep) from TN that spearheaded the entire bill. His decisions based on religious beliefs are well known and he is also planning on running for president in 2008. In my opinion, this was just another notch on his belt to please the religious right, so that he will have all of his ducks in a row come election time.

The way I see it.

The bill is fixing applying existing law (about gambling) to internet gambling.

The existing law may be dumb, and may be religious motivated (I think it is) but really it seems to be fixxing a loophole. (even though as previously mentioned I disagree with the law in the first place)

The way I see it.

The bill is fixing applying existing law (about gambling) to internet gambling.

The existing law may be dumb, and may be religious motivated (I think it is) but really it seems to be fixxing a loophole. (even though as previously mentioned I disagree with the law in the first place)

Can you explain what existing law/loophole you are referring to?

Yes, by all means, lets ban anything that might be bad for us.

Idiots

I think we should just cut to the chase and put stupid people in jail.

Can you explain what existing law/loophole you are referring to?

If your in a state that has banned gambling; then gambling online is a loophole to get around that.

They <i>are</i> con artists. The average credit card discount fee is around 2.5% + $0.25, so they're milking the addicts for all they can. If you look around a casino, there are no clocks or windows, so you can keep on gambling without even noticing how long you've been there.
Actually, the ATMs are all rip-offs, this is Vegas, not some deserted island, there are tons of banks all over the place, but you've got to actually expend effort to get there. I normally don't use "commercial" ATMs cause I don't even like the $2.50ish charge, I will expend the effort to go to my bank's ATM with no fee. There are also some casinos that will give you credit card advances for no fees, but they're usually the smaller ones that you have to go off strip to find.

As for the no windows thing, that is true, to a point. From what I heard, Steve Wynn's new casino is going to be in a very windowed environment, with tons of views of the outside.

Also, keep another thing in mind - windows in Vegas suck. I went once during the middle of summer - hello 117 degree heat. Dry heat my arse =/

I can understand putting one or two windows around to let you see outside, but giant windowed rooms in Vegas are a bad idea. I remember going to open the curtains in my hotel room one time and nearly burning my hand because the plastic puller was that hot, just from the direct afternoon sunlight.

If your in a state that has banned gambling; then gambling online is a loophole to get around that.

There are only 2 states that outlaw gambling (Hawaii and Utah). All the other 48 states have gambling of some form whether it be state lottery, scratchers, casinos, etc.

The gambling is totally controlled by the state, the Internet gambling was the loophole to that. You can't open a casino in CA (except on an Indian reservation), you can't be a bookie, you can't start your own lottery, you can't just do whatever you want WRT gambling. It is tightly regulated.

Sorry buddy, they just closed down your favorite little loophole.

But if that's a big issue in your life, perhaps these folks can help (http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/).

But if that's a big issue in your life, perhaps these folks can help (http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/).


Thanks for being stereotypical and judgemental about my stance on online gaming. I've never played a slot machine, state lottery, blackjack, craps, scratcher ticket, etc. The only type of "gambling" I do is play Texas Hold Em online and I use it to supplement my income. I've played for 3 years now and have never had a losing year. It wasn't like I was making a living off poker but it made a noticable difference.

Thanks again for caring and enjoy the lung cancer from your years of cigerrete smoking is going to bring you. Maybe these people can help you www.givingupsmoking.co.uk (See, I can be judgemental and stereotypical too!).

Uh... good try. You'll have to dig deeper to find my vice. I don't smoke.

Uh... good try. You'll have to dig deeper to find my vice. I don't smoke.

Uh, but you did and the damage is already done. You got the point I was trying to make anyways, that was a silly rebuttle.


Banning smoking has been very nice for non-smokers. Its great not having to smell it on your clothes, in your hair and it has probably helped a lot of people realize they should quit. I know that the more anti-social smoking became the more I wanted to quit.

And I was even smoking menthols! (Which were recently found to be harder to quit).

Uh... good try. You'll have to dig deeper to find my vice. I don't smoke.

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 11,358

:elfbiggri

Mea Culpa, Talyena.

There are third parties that bypass this law completely. I used Netteller just this weekend to deposit 25 bucks into my pokerstars.com account :D. Netteller (a site that is not a bank, credit card or Gambling site) took 25 dollars from my checking account and put it into my Pokerstars.com account.

I believe that prior to the passage of this law most banks and credit cards voluntarily nixed Gambling sites from places that they would move money to.

There are third parties that bypass this law completely. I used Netteller just this weekend to deposit 25 bucks into my pokerstars.com account :D. Netteller (a site that is not a bank, credit card or Gambling site) took 25 dollars from my checking account and put it into my Pokerstars.com account.

I believe that prior to the passage of this law most banks and credit cards voluntarily nixed Gambling sites from places that they would move money to.

There are definately ways of getting around depositing to and from sites. Neteller and Firepay are the 2 things that a majority of the US uses right now because they are based in Antigua I think. The problem is that Pokerstars, PartyPoker, Pacific Poker, etc are all saying that when the law is passed that they will stop allowing US customers access to their sites. I'm sure there will be smaller rogue sites that will still accept US customers but I don't think I want to risk losing thousands of dollars if they are not legit and decide to keep my money.

ack - that sucks. I liked playing in the 5-10 cent rooms. Those rooms are essentially like playing on the free sites, but because even the smallest amount of risk gets introduced people play a lott more responsibly with their chips and the games are more fun.

They <i>are</i> con artists. The average credit card discount fee is around 2.5% + $0.25, so they're milking the addicts for all they can. If you look around a casino, there are no clocks or windows, so you can keep on gambling without even noticing how long you've been there.

Yea, surprise surprise the casinos are in the business to make money. Casinos don't build themselves and invester like to make money. They have loan officers there ready to issue you a loan to gamble with, and don't forget free alcohol to impair your judgement. Tough to find exits with heavy tint on the windows to block out the sun and concierge to bend over backwards for anything you want if you're at the tables. Yea, if you don't take what you're willing to lose and leave the wallet somewhere else, you can really screw yourself up in a hurry.


This requires an observant Pit Boss or Slot Host, but you'd be surprised exactly how observant those guys are.

Oh man those guys are crazy. It blows me away how they can be at a craps table with 16 people and many thounsands of dollars flying around and they will snap at you instantly if you do something wrong.

I've thought online gambling was the loop hole too. I'm surprised the goverment hasn't dipped into the pot (or have they?) Simply banning credit card companies from the scene will only stir up someone to make the paypal of online gambling though, just a change for those who must gamble online.

This is a massive rediculous load of crap.
Poker is here to stay. It's just going to boost revenue for the B&M casinos while making it more of a pain in the ass for me to play poker.

There has got to be some way for all these dirty congressmen to be on the take from online gambling so we can do that while they sleep with interns.

Actually, it's pages they're IM'ing. Interns is old news. :p

Pages are nothing new, either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Congressional_page_sex_scandal

Hmmm... perhaps this could satisfy your betting desires: http://www.biz.uiowa.edu/iem/markets/Congress06.html

It's futures trading in political markets.

Here's the FAQ: http://www.biz.uiowa.edu/iem/faq.html#Real