I was wondering which would be the best when you have all AAs (or at least all the relevant AAs), Direct Damage spells, or Damage over Time spells?

Let's assume that you have no focus gear at all, but you have all DD and DoT AAs.

Which is highest DPS: DD or DoT?
Which is the best mana/damage ratio: DD or DoT?
Which is resisted less/most: DD or DoT?

I know I've read threads covering some or all of those questions, but haven't really found them when I skimmed the threads. I'm sure however, that someone could point me in the right direction, or have the answers ready to type them for us :)

Let's assume that you have no focus gear at all, but you have all DD and DoT AAs.

Silly question. The answer would favor rains > nukes > dots when in reality its MR DoTs > rains > other ****.

Every one of your questions varies drastically by which situation your in.

Silly question. The answer would favor rains > nukes > dots when in reality its MR DoTs > rains > other ****.I don't see how it's a silly question. I would elaborate, but Fenier already did it for me:
Every one of your questions varies drastically by which situation your in.

I know it varies.
DoTs have higher aggro than DDs. But is it enough with various de-aggro AA and Epic 2.0 that it matters with a good tank holding aggro?
Some combos clearly favors long fights over short figts and vice versa. Long fights should have better mana/damage ratio, where short fights should have high DPS etc.

So if you should explain every situtation, what situations would favor DDs and what would favor DoTs?

Personally I've never used DoTs very much, mainly due to aggro (haven't used it much at all, not even after Epic 1.5 and 2.0, so don't know how much they help). Also DoTs have also been more or less blacklisted in my book, mostly due to raid and CC being bothered by it often.

Also rains, if the target isn't moved around constantly, would give a good mana/damage ratio, especially if you're lucky to have more than one place in the rains area of effect (and they aren't moved around). This also works against CC though :(

Let's say in an XP group, with 1 mob pulled at the time so no worries about CC, what would be best (also taking into account aggro): DoTs or DDs?

Other situations that I haven't mentioned that I forgot (or just don't know about)?

When I'm in a group, I usually de-buff for least resists then nuke away. I try to go for rain nukes if I can since the dmg is greater if all three waves hit. Although I don't have the Ancient nukes or Dawnstrike so my exp with those spells is 0. But to reply, I'd say nukes is best bet since fights in groups usually don't last near the full minute it takes to get the total dmg output from a round of DoTs.

Let's say in an XP group, with 1 mob pulled at the time so no worries about CC, what would be best (also taking into account aggro): DoTs or DDs?


Direct Damage alternated with Rain imo.

If you wanted to do Damage Over Time, its viable, and I personally have not found the agro that bad with one or two of them stacked, but You'd want to use Vengance of X (since the duration is lowest at 30 seconds).

Swarm and Immolation do work also, but Immolation is more a debuff with damage, and Swarm takes 45 seconds+ to do full damage.

Dot's are best used when solo. But we're not supposed to solo so don't let soE catch you using them.

But there is no soloing in SoE's eyes.

Was just glancing through this thread and had to pop back as a thought hit me.


Are dots best now soloing with the new rest? Or is it going to be more long term efficient to nuke out the mana/ dps as fast as possible and then rest it back up?


I have noticed doing some mobs in icefalls that using dots and then chain nuking its possible to kill 2 mobs while just about perfectly ending up oom. So... Im going to have to play with this a bit and see, but right now Im not so certain that nuking ourselves dry isnt the better way to go.



Sliggoth, druid/ tradeskiller of 7th Hammer

I prefer to snare and nuke em to death. A few good turns of the RNG for fast kills, and with ooc regen I dont care how much mana I use, a couple mins and Im back at it.

Dot's are best used when solo. But we're not supposed to solo so don't let soE catch you using them.

Wow, isn't that the truth. Our nukes are pathetic and out DoTs are worse. The damage they do is not relative to the level of the mob for which they are intended. It seems the only thing we have going for us is that we are next choice for healer when clerics are not around. /wonders why soe hates us.

Wow, isn't that the truth. Our nukes are pathetic and out DoTs are worse. The damage they do is not relative to the level of the mob for which they are intended. It seems the only thing we have going for us is that we are next choice for healer when clerics are not around. /wonders why soe hates us.

Druids aren't good at any one thing, but instead decent in many things.
We have decent damage from nukes, if we have AA's and focus. We have very decent healing. We are very mobile (Movement buffs, Teleports). Our DoT's are decent.

Ofcourse I would often also tend to say that druids lacks a bit of love compared to other classes, for example:

Shamans: Have way better DoT's that druids. Heals almost as good as druids. Can slow (a must in just about any fight these days). Has a pet that is actually worth just a little bit. Buffwise the Shaman buffs are more wanted than Druid buffs, although that doesn't count IMO since Shamans are a primary buff class.

Clerics: Well, they can heal. Besides that? I don't envy clerics.

Necromancers: What are they? They're certainly the best DoT class there is. They have a pet that's almost on level with mage pets. They can charm undeads to a higher level than druids can charm animals (at least they could during PoP). They can mesmerize undead (or is it all types of mobs?). They can slow undead (or is it all types of mobs?). They have invincibility buff.

Now, taking those things into account..
Why don't Druids get a bear pet which at least equals the Shamans pet?
Why don't Druids get a animal only mesmerize and/or slow?

Shamans: Have way better DoT's that druids. Heals almost as good as druids. Can slow (a must in just about any fight these days). Has a pet that is actually worth just a little bit. Buffwise the Shaman buffs are more wanted than Druid buffs, although that doesn't count IMO since Shamans are a primary buff class.

Shaman have a slightly differant view of their pet then we do. Tradtionally (sting excepted) We have had better nukes due to our primarly burst format. Shaman class design has (until TSS) been around duration encounters. Druid heals hover around 75% of Clerical Light spells. Shaman clock in at 10% below us, and have to make up the differance in Healing Per Second with HoTs and Slow. This works fairly well, until the HoT drops because reapplication may kill the tank.

Necromancers: What are they? They're certainly the best DoT class there is. They have a pet that's almost on level with mage pets. They can charm undeads to a higher level than druids can charm animals (at least they could during PoP). They can mesmerize undead (or is it all types of mobs?). They can slow undead (or is it all types of mobs?). They have invincibility buff.

Their DoTs are their main method of Damage. Thier pets can deal damage well, but can't tank anywhere near as well as a Mage or Beastlord Warder imo.

On Charm:

Command of Tunare (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=3445&source=Live) - Charm upto level 60 (Recieved at 63)
Word of Terris (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=3316&source=Live) - Charm upto level 60 (Recieved at 65)

On Mez, Slow:

They can mez Undead only with spells such as Dark Hold (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5429&source=Live). Shackle of Spirit (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=2544&source=Live) can slow undead upto 70 percent, but has a 5 second cast time, no innate resist, and lasts for a maximum of 3.5 minutes.

They do Have Harmshield, which is similar to DA. They also can't cast while using it, so fegining is not an option.


Now, taking those things into account..
Why don't Druids get a bear pet which at least equals the Shamans pet?
Why don't Druids get a animal only mesmerize and/or slow?

Druids are not a pet class. Im sorry but the 55 bear does not count. At this point I do not think adding an additonal balancing factor to the class is a smart move. Personally, speaking I don't like pets much =p

Druids did not get a Animal Mez due to the factor that (now combined with Feralize) Druid / Shaman combos could replace Enchanters in nearly all content.

Prathun mentioned if anything, Druids would get an Animal only slow (since the Shaman can slow anyway, so we wouldn't be overpowered).

-Fenier

Beastlord warder and Mage pets are monsters compared to Necromancer. It's basically a big dot with a graphic.

Mage pets have a variety of different uses, functions, abilities, and diversity. While certainly Necromancer is a pet class, they are nowhere near dependent on their pets to function as Beastlord or Mage, where the relationship is near symbiotic.

Edit: I don't want a pet. The bear is dumb.

Prathun mentioned if anything, Druids would get an Animal only slow (since the Shaman can slow anyway, so we wouldn't be overpowered).
I'm not much for pets either, was merely comparing. Mez is not really something I need or miss. I have root for CC. But the animal only slow would make us compareable to the other classes that can charm only specific types of mobs (mages can charm summoned, necromancers can charm undead).

They can mesmerize undead (or is it all types of mobs?)
-----------

Necros can mez all types of mobs up to L73, with a ghetto mez (3 tick base duration.) Real mez is their undead only line -- up to L75, 6 tick duration.

If they give druids animal slow they need to give necros undead tash~.

I can certainly appreciate the fact that Druids are supposed to be a well rounded class as opposed to a specialized class. It's a "Jack of all trades, master of none" type of deal. My main concern is that the offensive spells that we get don't seem to be strong enough for the mobs that we are expected to fight. Also, as far as pets go, I happen to like using them. When I can Charm or DC one, I snare, dot and stop pet from taunting. It works really well. The summoned pet, however, is not worth the time. It simply doesn't pay to summon and buff a pet that misses a mob most of the time or hits for only 15 damage. Druids definitely have their usefullness as a primarily defensive class. Although I don't think they need a drastic makeover, they can certainly stand a little tweaking.

They can mesmerize undead (or is it all types of mobs?)
-----------

Necros can mez all types of mobs up to L73, with a ghetto mez (3 tick base duration.) Real mez is their undead only line -- up to L75, 6 tick duration.

If they give druids animal slow they need to give necros undead tash~.
Okay, so the necro have 2 abilities already (slow and mez) and the druid only have 1 (tash), but if the druid were to have 1 more, making it 2, the necro should also have 1 more, making it 3?
Anyway. I don't care if they give necros undead tash if we were to get animal slow.