Seems like a sense of reality is closing in since the elections.

Military victory is no longer possible in Iraq, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said in a television interview broadcast Sunday.

Kissinger presented a bleak vision of Iraq, saying the U.S. government must enter into dialogue with Iraq's neighbors - including Iran - if progress is to be made in the region.
http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/ap/2006/11/19/ap3188590.html

Yes, it is becoming just like the Viet Nam war.

Politicians, entertainers, and the media micro managing what should be left to generals.

Time to pull out of that black hole now.
Let the Iraqis enter a period of civil war and genocide.
Cull out the herd,,, thin their numbers.

Then come back later if we want to.
For now, if they want to act like barbarians, let 'em.
..."Take 'em to the tree of woe!"

Of course victory is possible, we accomplished it years ago. Why we're still there trying to keep Iraqis from killing one another is beyond me. I'm with Fyyr, we're done, and if they want to engage in civil war, let them. It only helps us.

His definition of 'military victory' is not even a military objective.

"If you mean by 'military victory,' an Iraqi government that can be established and whose writ runs across the whole country, that gets the civil war under control and sectarian violence under control in a time period that the political processes of the democracies will support, I don't believe that is possible," he told the British Broadcasting Corp.

That is not a military objective.

That is peacekeeping and policing. Government building, if you will.

Our military is not trained to do that, and is not in their scope. The military should not be made responsible or liable for this kind of function.

Start up a new branch of government, if you want. That does this sort of thing. Our military is designed to kill people, blow up things, take land, even depose leaders of foreign lands.

Rebuilding after war is a nicety, a courtesy we, and virtually we alone took on after WW2. It is not like we really have to do it(for people to like us or anything), unless we want to. If we don't want to rebuild, we don't have to. I have said many times before, if they don't want us to build them schools, water treatment centers, or electrical plants...FVCK em to hell. Let them sh!t on the floor in their hovels in the dark, and drink fecal material contaminated water if they want that.

We don't owe them a thing, and especially so if they are going to be gawddamn ungrateful about the whole thing.

They just are not culturally ready for Democracy and Freedom.

Politicians, entertainers, and the media micro managing what should be left to generals.
I agree that it should have been left to the generals but it was Rumsfeld that was doing the micro-managing that botched it.