From the Roots Are Broken thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.

Vekx wrote:

I'm thinking that TSS was built as a fall back for when/if EQ starts to get to a very low player base. They can just start removing some of the older content since you can now go from 1 75 all within TSS zones. And new content will prolly follow this example. With the new /con vs exp gained system you have to know its all messed up. Unless you are only in TSS. At level 75 go to TSS and kill LT Blue con mob. Then go to WoS and do the same. You will get the same amount of exp but it is about 3 times easier to kill the WoS mob. So there is a disparity there introduced with the new system. They must know this. They must not care.

So if you dont need to complete the new quests or spells then you'd get exp faster in older zones, as long as you can find the level /con mobs you want to kill. Because now a boss mob in old-zone-x will only become less exp as you advance (like if level caps get increased again). In the old system they could keep boss mobs at least more of a challenge and more exp. Now the new system isnt bad but in order to make older content useful (or a place anyone will ever go to) all old content will need to be revamped which is unlikely.

I know many get to skip much content nowdays. I even missed most of PoP. I went thru PoTime but skipped most of the rest, Air, water, Earth, etc. But if you are level 75 - or possibly 80 or 85 soon - those zones will all become greenies and lt blues.

So - do you want to start EQ, level to 75, and start you end game at DoD and up? or where ever you need the last round of spells? then why even keep the rest of the content around? (and yes I realize they would have to make sure needed trade skill drops are avail in the newer zones, etc. Epic 1.0 is prolly a moot point but could also be changed to use only newer zones)

I'm thinking that TSS was built as a fall back for when/if EQ starts to get to a very low player base. They can just start removing some of the older content since you can now go from 1 75 all within TSS zones.
Have to disagree with this.

When EQ gets to a very low player base, they will just combine more servers. One of the few advantages EQ has over all other MMORPGs is the huge world. Eliminating that will cause a great many players to quit.

The zones are already created. There is almost no cost in keeping them. Just running a few more servers. I will never expect them to remove any old zones.

In fact, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the "temporary" zones they made like Chardok, Halls of Betrayal (Chardok B) have become permanent. When they first created Chardok B and the other ones, they said they would only be up for a few months or so. Yet they have been up for years with no sign of them wanting to remove them.

So once the work is done creating a zone, you leave it up because it is cheap and allows you to brag that you have 500 zones while other games only have 50. Of course, getting Sony to update the zones is a totally different story. :)

Well you do have a point about the part that it's cheap to keep the old zones. And I guess it would be easier to do that over moving tradeskill drops and epic needs to new zones. It could go either way I guess.

But being medium time player, meaning I've not been playing since 1999 but have 5 solid years in, I dislike the fact that you no longet need to go through older content. I'd like to see SoE make it so you had to go through most content to get to the current end game content. And I know there are at least 2 sides to this and SoE tried to change things since the PoP era because backflagging was such a pain. But with the piggy system and the new drops that instantly flag you it's much easier. But I think you must at least get flagged before you are able to move up to the next expansion/level. Make it so gear from expansion-c cant be used unless you have made it thru expansion-b, whatever, lol. That way you can't just get the end game gear and have no need to go to Time, etc.

Let me give you some of my background. I was in a small family guild up to GoD. We were intent on moving forward but didn't have the guild to do it very fast. As the guild was falling apart I was getting the PoP flags using pickup raids. Basically I didn't have a guild behind me to get it all done.

Later, when my play time was reduced due to work, I joined an 'end-game' guild and started to get things done, yeay!!. I made it through Time, GoD, OoW. Then SoE introduced the 'group' flagging system needed to get to the end game zones. This killed me because I was no longer in a small guild that didn't raid every night wich would have allowed my time to do group flagging, where now I was in a raid most of my play time. So it was all I could do to get the group flagging done to keep up with my guild. I no longer have the play time to do both. I was in the wrong 'type' guild at the wrong time, lol.

I for one am sad I missed what I did. PoAir, Water, Earth, SRTower and VT. Yes you can go back there with a couple of groups these days. And maybe one day I will. But like I said, if I had that kind of play time I'd be using it to get the 'group-flagging' done or catch up on some group MPG trails or DoDh spells I'm still missing. I'm kinda stuck in between cause I've been in a good end game guild. So dropping out of that might not keep me excited. But if I can't keep up with them since I don't play 24/7 I'll eventually just be haning on and a liability to the guild.

Have to disagree with this.

When EQ gets to a very low player base, they will just combine more servers. One of the few advantages EQ has over all other MMORPGs is the huge world. Eliminating that will cause a great many players to quit.

The zones are already created. There is almost no cost in keeping them. Just running a few more servers. I will never expect them to remove any old zones.

In fact, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the "temporary" zones they made like Chardok, Halls of Betrayal (Chardok B) have become permanent. When they first created Chardok B and the other ones, they said they would only be up for a few months or so. Yet they have been up for years with no sign of them wanting to remove them.

So once the work is done creating a zone, you leave it up because it is cheap and allows you to brag that you have 500 zones while other games only have 50. Of course, getting Sony to update the zones is a totally different story. :)

As for the "Temporary" zones, they announced years ago that they were just going to leave them in. Not only that, but now there are 1.5/2.0s attached to them.

As for EQ having an advantage by having a larger world, that is not true. Most of EQ's world looks dated, as do the mobs in them, that is one of the major factors, along with PC models, keeping people out of EQ. People are not going to want to start playing a game that looks as old, bad, and (video) laggy as EQ. Even if they fixed the models, they would make them like Drakkins and Luclin would be repeated all over again, as drakkin models run like total ****.

EQ's "big" world is a big, EMPTY world. Yes, the content is there, but you are forgetting that its got all of zero/next to zero people in 85% of the zones. Content doesn't matter unless people are actually doing the content. Even if EQ suddenly got thousands of people to join all the servers, all of that content would be skipped unless it was restricted in the same fashion of the progression servers, which on normal servers obviously is not possible.

An interesting side effect of a large world is once something becomes dated, it adds to the mystery a bit.

People hear of all these events people have done, and it instills a sense of wonder and often desire to see the event, just to say they've done it once.

An interesting side effect of a large world is once something becomes dated, it adds to the mystery a bit.

People hear of all these events people have done, and it instills a sense of wonder and often desire to see the event, just to say they've done it once.

Yeah, but then you need to actually be able to convince someone to go back and do some of those events, which is highly unlikely.

Fenier when you go back for the Emp kill in SSRA wanna drop me a PM?

Edit for Rajolaie
No attempt at being contradictory at all.
As for characters I've almost been playing as long as Fen and have been diagnosed with obsessive alt syndrome.
I do have 2 characters with the emp key and one that is holding all of the shards.
I've never seen the emp fight and really would someday like to take part in it if only to make the neverending hours spent camping shards finally stop causing me nightmares.
Fenier is one person on CT that I know that perhaps would invite an old acquaintance along on an old raid target.

Fenier when you go back for the Emp kill in SSRA wanna drop me a PM?

Nice attempt at being contradictory, but unless you have a character besides a level 42 druid, your straw man just went up in smoke.

As for the "Temporary" zones, they announced years ago that they were just going to leave them in. Not only that, but now there are 1.5/2.0s attached to them.

EQ's "big" world is a big, EMPTY world. Yes, the content is there, but you are forgetting that its got all of zero/next to zero people in 85% of the zones.
You missed my point.

I wasn't saying that the old zones are good. I'm not saying they are bad, either. All I said was that there is no reason to get rid of them.

As for the temporary zones, it doesn't matter when they announced that they would leave them in. The point I made (which is still valid) was that when they were first put in the game, it was made clear that they were temporary. Later on, this was changed.

Why? Because it is cheap to leave them in. All the work has already been done to create them. Why throw away that work when it doesn't really cost anything to keep them in the game?

So I never expect them to get rid of any old zones. Even if 90% of the zones are crappy, they do exist. In marketing speak, this makes it a huge world.

Your points may or may not be valid. But they have nothing to do with what I was saying.

You missed my point.

I wasn't saying that the old zones are good. I'm not saying they are bad, either. All I said was that there is no reason to get rid of them.

As for the temporary zones, it doesn't matter when they announced that they would leave them in. The point I made (which is still valid) was that when they were first put in the game, it was made clear that they were temporary. Later on, this was changed.

Why? Because it is cheap to leave them in. All the work has already been done to create them. Why throw away that work when it doesn't really cost anything to keep them in the game?

So I never expect them to get rid of any old zones. Even if 90% of the zones are crappy, they do exist. In marketing speak, this makes it a huge world.

Your points may or may not be valid. But they have nothing to do with what I was saying.

I was commenting on your bit about EQ having an advantage by having a larger world.

IMO, instead of doing full zone revamps they should revamp parts of old zones. ie, in a corner of a zone add a few groups of L73+ mobs - could have xp mobs, aug dropping nameds, and even a mini raid event or two. These things would drawl people to the zone without destroying the zone.

"But what is some low level person accidently runs into the mobs." Great, that'ld be a good lesson for them. Why do you think old zones had zone-sweepers like griffons and hill giants added to them? They want people to learn situational awareness. But 95% of low level toons in old zones are twinks of L75's anyways.

"But what is some low level person accidently runs into the mobs." Great, that'ld be a good lesson for them. Why do you think old zones had zone-sweepers like griffons and hill giants added to them? They want people to learn situational awareness. But 95% of low level toons in old zones are twinks of L75's anyways.

I always thought it was fun to have the 'sweepers' as you call them. It did make it fun. How many poeple would be in the castle in CB when they knew if Dvinn poped they would make a mad rush for the zone out or die. Or in Rathe mtns killing giants that there were a few mobs that could spawn that they couldn't handle.

They still add sweepers. Shadowhunter and Warfiend in OOW are good examples of this. So is that giant which wandered Broodlands.

I don't recall any in DoD, but I know there are a few in TSS provided they were not taken out in Beta.

They still add sweepers. Shadowhunter and Warfiend in OOW are good examples of this. So is that giant which wandered Broodlands.

I don't recall any in DoD, but I know there are a few in TSS provided they were not taken out in Beta.

I wouldn't call Grel a "zone sweeper" in the same sense as griffons and what not, because the other zones were actually used a lot instead of just a hub for what zone you really wanted to go to. Not only that, but most people don't (didn't) even kill him, more so it was a nuisance for raiding aswell if some random person forgot to invis.

I always thought it was fun to have the 'sweepers' as you call them. It did make it fun. How many poeple would be in the castle in CB when they knew if Dvinn poped they would make a mad rush for the zone out or die. Or in Rathe mtns killing giants that there were a few mobs that could spawn that they couldn't handle.

Vinny was such a bad ass back in the day. I remember getting slaughtered in the moat in CB and being scared I wouldn't be able to get my corpse back.

Other great memories are of the SGs in oasis wandering a bit too close to the dock and the madness ensued. Or even better, the sheer terror of someone training the specs to the docks.

SPECS to Docks !!.. hahahahahahaha



Gildian

With Fableds likely coming this year, expect to see some VT keying hapening (I think it's Lucelin this time). I know our guild has killed Emp at least once to key up a few ppl for VT in the last month or so. Keep an eye out - you may find yourself an Emp Raid yet!