The biggest problem I see with role-playing in EverQuest is there is absolutely no reward for it outside of the personal enjoyment of it and too few people stick with it for long. This problem is largely based in the fact that players are more involved with other players, acting against a static background, with little incentive for that dark elf to HATE that high elf!

Why should the dark elf hate the high elf after all? He may need him/her to form a group. Maybe one of them is a cleric and the other is a tank? Those classes need each other quite a bit generally after all.

Why should a druid role-play when they can go quad-kite? Why should an iksar shadow knight bother even caring about Cabilis except possibly as a convenient shortcut when running from place to place on Kunark?

The simple answer to these questions and hundreds like them is easy: there is no reason.

Star Wars Galaxies however has a much more interesting approach to this sort of lack of immersion (shame the game itself lacked in so many other ways). You could join factions and by joining factions were then able to gain access to better quests and better gear as a result.

For those who don't know, the factions in SWG worked like this:
Neutral: You have no faction. You are one of the countless hordes of beings that populate the universe in search of whatever adventure comes your way.

Covert: You have joined a faction, but you are a covert operative. This gives you access to better missions, and allows you to become temporarily PvP to the enemies of your faction only if you wish to aid your faction in a battle in whatever way.

Overt: You have joined a faction, and are publicly known to be a part of that faction. You are always PvP enabled against the enemies of your faction, but also receive the best missions and access to the best gear.

In EverQuestII there are intriguing hints that a similar system might be used, but in the absence of such hints, here's how I think it could work in EverQuestI:

At character creation, all characters are neutrals. Neutral characters are not PvP enabled and exist purely in a PvE setting. Doing nothing else, a person could stay a neutral and play the game precisely as it exists now, in search of whatever glory and loot they can find.

However, you have the option of finding a recruiter for one or more factions in your home city. You would not initially be able to join the faction though, in order to do so you would have to complete missions that would steadily scale in difficulty, proving yourself to the faction you wish to join (and incidentally giving motivation and direction towards gaining experience and levels.)

Once you had sufficiently proven yourself, you would be advised (if you weren't already aware) of who the enemies of your faction are, and warned that you would make yourself their enemy if you joined. You would be offered the opportunity to become [covert] or [overt.]

The act of becoming a covert operative would incur minor negative faction hits against the opposing factions, as it is known you associate with them and it would be rumored that you belonged to them. It would also immediately provide you with 2-3 nice pieces of level-appropriate gear in the guise of "standard issue equipment." As a covert operative, various NPCs that would exist in your home city would now start being more receptive to speaking with you, giving you quests to perform to advance the goals of your faction.

Should you take the option of becoming overt, the item rewards would be even nicer, although with the penalty of now being immediately max KOS to the opposing factions. Players who allied with the enemies of your faction would be able to engage in PvP combat with you, and vice versa. Coding would be in place that would make it impossible for those of opposing factions to group or raid together in any circumstance, or from being able to heal, buff, or aid those of opposing factions.

Other faction benefits could include higher level gear quests, designed to be done single-group or perhaps even single-player that would result in NODROP gear. If you are distant from your home base, you might receive a "tell" warning you if your faction is under attack and where.

A group of Dark Elves that have allied themselves with the Hall of the Dead might be given a "quest" to go and attack the rangers in the East Commonlands. A quest that might be appropriate for a group of 30ish level characters for instance. The rangers could send a tell to every to any PC on their faction (or perhaps allied factions) within a certain number of zones saying "Help! We are under attack from foul Teir'Dal!"

Normally the prize for defeating the rangers is some fairly decent coin, but in the case of the dark elves, they might each receive a reward of service from the quest giver (handled via flags so the quest could not be repeated once succeeded at.) Those members of the Ranger's faction who came to the aid of the Rangers and either killed or forced to zone (retreat) the attacking teir'dal might be receive a note/character flag and sent to go see a differant NPC who might reward them for their bravery in a similar fashion.

Finally, you could lose your faction standing, and be kicked out of your faction, for betraying its ideals. Before grouping, or helping (healing, buffing, porting, etc.), with a neutral of a race or class that is regarded as anethema to your faction, a confirmation box would pop up saying "Such an act would be viewed as treasonous to your faction! Proceed anyway?" Saying yes would incur a negative faction hit, should your faction with your allied faction drop below a certain point, a message would pop up that would say "Word of your treason has reached your Faction's Headquarters, and they have declared you traitor!"

This would result in a massive negative faction hit against your former faction to becoming max KOS, and rather large faction hits against factions they are allied with as well. It would mean a small faction boost with the enemies of your faction, but they are not inclined to immediately trust someone who once worked against them. To prevent the sort of faction-switching common in Velious, a flag would be applied that would make it impossible for a character to rise above dubious to their former faction (they simply cannot trust you like they did before), or their allies.

To join a new faction after having done this, would necessitate even more adventuring and questing to first overcome the stigma of having been branded a traitor to your old faction, and then building the aforementioned good will with the new desired faction. Given the nature of allied and opposed factions in EverQuest, its most likely possible to switch factions a few times at best before finding oneself seriously outcast.

Joining a faction could also mean:
* Access to special hidden areas of your home town not available to the "unwashed masses" These areas could include vendors who give much better buying and selling prices, larger numbers of tradeskill containers for those interested, or even special portals that allow you to instantly travel to any other allied faction's headquarters (a sort of limited PoK.)

* The ability to find a special NPC in such a hidden area that you could visit that would teleport you to your corpse and restore some lost experience (perhaps 25% if covert, 50% if overt) with standard rez effects in place.

* Perhaps in these special zones, items that are normally NODROP could become tradable, but only in that zone.

And so on. Such a world would become tremendously more immersive. There would be the various conflicts we read are supposed to happen, but never do. Races would start caring about their home towns more, without the necessity of having frogloks take them over! Tension would exist, and even the crassest of "uber dudes" would have to make decisions about what their actions could mean.

The downsides of this, in a game as old as EQ1, would be tremendous. The sheer volume of recoding involved would be nightmarish I predict. However, until or unless role-playing and factions are made to A) make sense and B) provide meaningful in-game rewards and benefits (even if only social/prestige ones) then to complain about a lack of RP in EQ is a bit like complaining about the weather.

Pointless.

Why do so many think that PvP and roleplay have anything to do with each other? I can never remember fighting another player character in a tabletop RPG, I dont see why a MMORPG should be any different.

The major original problem with EQ and roleplaying was that it had the backstory of a PvP game, with races at war, but it is 99% PvE. But the way to fix that is not to throw the baby out with the bathwater and turn EQ into a PvP game, but to change the backstory. For example, set the game at the height of the Combine Empire, where halflings might be distrustful of dark elves, but magical treaties prohibited actual fighting.

If there wasn't such a gap between what made in-character sense in terms of the background and what made ooc sense in terms of game mechanics, roleplaying might have survived a lot longer. It's all about suspension of disbelief.

soru

I can never remember fighting another player character in a tabletop RPG


We did all the time.

Yes, but you probably had a system where PvP combat was balanced, right? (Since NPCs are still human controlled and generally follow the same rules as players, player/NPC and player/player combat should be pretty similar...)

No it was not balanced. Not balanced at all.

The thief and illusionist classes were very capable of some nasty stuffs, at very low levels. And monks were pretty scary too, iirc.

And while psionics battles were essentially just 'rock, paper, scissors' fights, they were very fun(when you won). If you did not have psionics, it was a completely unbalanced fight.

Anyways, it was a long time ago, but I definately remember PvP in AD&D. That's what I meant.

A level 1 wizard or sorcerer can kill an entire party very easily. Find the nearest bridge that crosses a ravine, take out the bridge somehow and replace it with an illusion. Hire someone to chase the PC's down the road and across the bridge... and you'll most likely see at least half the party go plummeting off through the illusionary bridge.

Not that I've used this before...

Totally remove the PvP aspects altogether then. They were included by me because they were included in SWG and I thought it was a sensible means of setting up PvP. It would result in PvP happening between members of the Knights of Truth and members of the Freeport Militia for instance.

The point was, and is (and please try to see beyond PvP), that there is little to actually tie people to the setting beyond "lets go kill chit" and this is why RP suffers and withers and dies in EQ. This is why you have troll shadow knights *defending* froglok clerics rather than despising them. The in-game consequences of properly role-playing are generally negative and detrimental to your character.

Role-playing
* Limits what mobs you hunt
* Limits who you group/guild/raid with

These in turn can sharply limit who what gear you can get, how far you can progress in the game, and so on. Unless tangible rewards were provided to role-play, along with consequences of not-role-playing or role-playing in violation of your factions rules, nothing is going to happen.

How many paladins might start refusing to group with shadow knights if by joining the Knights of Truth they were given access to quests and special zones that rewarded them for following and abiding by the rules of the Knights of Truth faction?

Without incentives to role-play that make sense. It just isn't going to happen.

One thing I always like about DAOC was that you could not interact with opposing races at all. No grouping, no guilding, no chatting. You couldn't even see their names (just "Norse Invader"). They were essentially smart NPCs.

A server with those rules might be interesting.

Unfortunately, you'd need PvP to resolve disputes, since you could not mediate.

DAoC even was a much changed world down the road. Cross-faction duel-boxers and cross-alliance spies were the norm later on. Before I left it was certainly most common to know not only your opposing guilds on sight but most of the opposing individuals (and their classes, capabilities and frankly getting fed information from internal spys).

Ah, but on the original point though, Roleplaying is anaethma to MMORPGs (ironic huh?). Wherever they is group-interdependance there is a huge penalty for RPing your character. Wherever there is a loss of efficiency in hunting/questing/exploring from RPing even a good character, you are in trouble. Even moreso, the industry in under heavy scrutiny from a variety of groups that would make massive noise if Evil RPing was ever rewarded in-game, for the sake of the children and all. Little Bobby cannot possibly gain in-game rewards for being mean to little Suzy or Western society would end up as a cesspool of hate, intolerance, violence and greed. Hmm...

So, removing the ability to allow RPing of evil (and that's without even considering the CS troubles) we are left with half a coin and no real incentive to RP good either. Hell, I remember figuring out in '99 that my Druid actually not only could hunt animals without repurcussions but he was oddly designed better than anyone for slaughtering the ones he was sworn to protect! I called it "culling" for a while but hey, that was just me rationalizing things a bit. I also remember a Paladin or two hunting guards in Riverdale and Kaladim, mostly because of the lack of penalty.

The problem I see with RPing in this game is that everyone tries to RP AD&D. This isn't AD&D, it's Everquest, and the rules are different. Different world, classes, and rules.

Sure that evil-hating high elf can group with an evil ogre. But maybe he's boarderline drunk the entire time to tolerate it. Or the Shadowknight might make fun of the paladin's tanking during the night. Perhaps the necro claims they hate everyone, and sits outside the group talking to their pet. Or the druid tries to convert the necro to their side. And so on. I meet so many RPers who say they would roleplay, but they can't because of the way EQ is set up. Nonesense! You just have to understand EQ's rules, and RP within them.

Take PvP. You still have duels, but forget physical combat for a moment. How about verbal sparring? (Make sure the other person is in on it, so they don't just think you're a jerk). Try to outbuff a rival, or get the killing blow, etc.

Don't like EQ's story? Add to it or make your own. I had a half-elf once who was pretty convinced he was an ancient war hero. During downtimes in groups I dazzled them all with stories of how I single handedly took part in Norrath's history.

EQ's mechanics are important to. Why shouldn't a character acknowledge that such a thing exists as zones, for example? That monster stopped chasing me at the magic zone. Now you've blended game characteristics with realism.

It's all about not getting hung up on what EQ isn't, and focus on what it is. The real RP strenght in EQ is that everything is left up to us, the players. We aren't forced (on most servers) into specific factions, or roles. You can create any story you want, adjust nearly every faction in game, and even conduct player run quests with a little imagination.

Just get out of the AD&D mindset, and there's a LOT you can do in this game.


-Kanyli

Kanyli the problem there is that everyone of the several hundred thousand or more subscribers then makes up their own unique role-playing standard and none of them agree. You have the dark elves that play drow versus those who try to immerse themselves in the in-game lore vs. those who simply do not care.

The problem is there is no real connection to the game world, which is a problem. The paladin that groups with a shadow knight should expect their home guild to look askance at them for even having done so! The cleric of Tunare that heals the Troll should have the high priest calling them in to question them about it! But these things simply don't happen.

I suppose you could recode factions so that you take a faction hit immediately upon attacking an enemy rather than when it dies, or for buff on an enemy, or grouping with an enemy. These need not be huge, but having the faction hits for every time you join a group (with appropriate confirmation box warning) or when someone joins your group (ditto on confirmation box) and that would be a start.

The problem there is that even now most people ignore old world factions in favor of just operating out of the Plane of Knowledge where such factions don't exist and are meaningless, where the dark elven priest of hate can learn new cleric skills and buy new cleric spells from high elves that have "grown beyond such things." So, such a "stick" would never work by itself, peoplewould learn it just doesn't matter in exactly the same way that a lot of high elven characters learn that hunting PoG really isn't such a bad thing after all.

So, I come back to in-game rewards. Provide tangible and real benefits for joining a faction, and then have the faction impose penalties for those who break the rules. If nothing else, losing faction can lose you those in-game benefits and regaining faction membership could be long and painful.

As for "evil players being given evil quests" take a look at the various dark elf quests that exist in the game now. There's a quest that requires you to kill, and behead, a kindly halfing druid of Karana and bring that head back to a wizard at the tower of the Spurned! Its part of the dark elf cleric holy symbol series as it happens.

Reward players for role-playing somehow, provide the sorts of rewards that will be exciting and compelling for the players and they will pursue them. If you don't, then don't ever expect people will RP. It'll never happen.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>
The paladin that groups with a shadow knight should expect their home guild to look askance at them for even having done so!
[/quote]

Bluntly, why?

How does that in any way make the game more fun? How does it promote roleplaying? All it does is annoy non-roleplayers, and they are the majority and so will win out. Attitudes like that are the number 1 reason roleplaying has all but died out outside the RP server.

You could design a completely different game than EQ that worked the way you want, but it wouldn't have much in common with the current EQ. EQ is a game about mercenaries from different cultural backgrounds fighting together on the same side, not one about endless race wars between religious fanatics.

soru

Coming from a RP background, I sometimes wish for a little RP in everquest. However I believe that isn't what SoE is interested in naturing, given that factions don't matter much in the past two expansions (Luclin and PoP)

This is a huge change compared to Velious where certain quests were unavailable because you were KoS to either dorfs, giants or dragons.

Soru did you even read the previous posts?

The entire point was that without providing incentives that players want, no one will role-play for the reasons you yourself hint at: there is no benefit and it gets in the way of fun! Refusing to group/guild/raid with those whom game lore says would naturally be your enemies and the enemies of your guild, gets in the way of progression, gets in the way of having fun!

My entire point is that without incentives, people complaining about a lack of role-playing in EQ are like people complaining about the weather. Its possible to complain about it, but it does no good and it won't change how people behave!

To encourage role-playing you need to provide tangible rewards for doing so that are at least the equal of those available to those who prefer not to. Providing incentives such as special NPCs that only speak to those who belong to a faction-organization, special faction-organization-member-only zones, special quests that provide (after a series of long and arduous adventures, many of which could require working in raids with your faction group and its allies) some of the best gear in the game, and so on.

As an added dimension, Faction-group-based PvP might be possible and selectable as an option that could provide even better rewards.

The point is that role-playing is basically impossible and entirely pointless in EQ1. There's almost no real interaction or sense of belonging to a game world in EQ1. There are no incentives.

Using a faction-membership system players could:
A) Join no factions and play the existing game just as it is.
B) Join a faction and gain the benefits of the faction, but then be forced to abide by the rules of the faction or risk losing membership and those benefits.

How would you like your dark elf warrior to really be a member of the Indigo Brotherhood instead of a_warrior_01?

How would you like your wood elven rogue to really be a member of the Scouts of Tunare instead of a _rogue_237656?

How would you like your halfing druid to really be a member of the Stormreapers (? I think thats their faction)

And so on. Instead of being EverGrind, the world *could* be far more immersive than it is, for those that want it. Those that don't want to be members of those organizations can remain neutral, with no grouping or guilding restrictions. They would simply be the mercenaries and free adventurers of the world.

Unfortunately, mechanics that reward role-play also reward powergaming. I'm sure that people would pick the "best" faction for it's advantages, and then go from there.

The purpose of the faction might be to reward those who chose a lonely, difficult path. If you get +5 STA for choosing it, that alone would be sufficient reason for most. Note the prevalence of Iksar monks, and Troll Shaman.

The best role-players I've met in EQ are people who just...play a role. Like the Barb shaman who calls our Lady Warrior "lass". On a bad pull he says "dinna fash yerselves, they'll be napping in a wee bit" (chill, the chanter's going to mez).

Perhaps it was "trite", and didn't fit the "lore"...but it made me feel like I was playing with an actual Barbarian. I sort of started to RP also, I think we all did. It was contagious roleplaying.

I think if people want to RP, then job #1 is staying in character. In-game support will neither help nor hinder that. RP isn't something you get, it's something you do.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>
To encourage role-playing you need to provide tangible rewards for doing so that are at least the equal of those available to those who prefer not to.
[/quote]

Anything that a computer can tell whether or not you are doing is not roleplaying (at least short of a human-level AI, or direct brain-scan access).

All your suggestions would in no way encourage roleplaying, at most they would just change the type of powergaming that is done. It's much easier to choose to roleplay in a way that works within the game than to try to persuade SOE to change things to try to induce the majority of players to play your way.

soru

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>All your suggestions would in no way encourage roleplaying, at most they would just change the type of powergaming that is done. It's much easier to choose to roleplay in a way that works within the game than to try to persuade SOE to change things to try to induce the majority of players to play your way[/quote]

Exactly! You got it exactly!

You establish rules and settings that help enforce behaving in certain fashions with clear rewards and incentives for doing so. Certainly people would join faction_group_01 because of the chance for better loot, but in order to keep that group membership, and hence access to said better loot, then one must not act in a contradictory fashion to what that faction group expects.

The only other thing that would need to be fixed is the zoning or LD exploit, which allows people to get around faction hits by not being in the zone when the mob is dead or the hit is applied. Applying faction hits the instant you get on a mobs hate list (for instance) would solve that.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Unfortunately, you'd need PvP to resolve disputes, since you could not mediate. [/quote]

To me, any good game where you pit players against one another you've got to have at least 3 sides and you have to be able to negotiate between the sides. Then you get this alliances and make deals and work together if one side gets way too powerful.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Applying faction hits the instant you get on a mobs hate list (for instance) would solve that.[/quote]

Let's go with your "for instance": I can see a lot of potential for grief with that mechanic. Someone runs up to you in desperate need for a heal. What you don't know is that person has a grudge against your class and has a mob on your faction rooted just over the hill. You heal the person who politely asks if you have the time and mana for a heal and - Wham! - you get instant faction hit and a satisfied little griefer. Or, I could see an angry monk or SK kiting Yvolcarn around Cobalt Scar, right past people quadding wyerns, just to give them instant faction hits. I can think of a lot of mischief at the higher end that could be done if you got a faction hit the instant you got on a hate list. Nope, just don't see something like that working unfortunately.

Introducing game mechanisc to further encourage roleplaying without giving people more tools to induce grief in their fellow players is something else that would have to be taken into consideration, of course. But I think you are on the right track, and I think such mechanics will be present in EQ2. Methinks, however, that it is beyond time in EQ1 to introduce such schemes. :)

Aldane Aglond
Ayonae Ro

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>
Exactly! You got it exactly!

You establish rules and settings that help enforce behaving in certain fashions with clear rewards and incentives for doing so.
[/quote]

Why do you want to do this?

You seem to agree that these changes would not in any way promote roleplay, so I assume you want to randomly change the game on the grounds that if you changed it it would be different.

Well, /shrug, thats a bit of a tautology.

soru

The main reason RP didn't work well in EQ is simply do to the mass amounts of interdependency built into the system. In most fantasy systems, no elf would willing, without a substantial reason that is, associate with 90% of the rest of the races, and only begrudgingly associate with other elf races.

An erudite would rather have there fingernails pulled out then to spend time with a barbarian, let alone a Toll, or an Oger. The interdependence built into EQ has pretty much made it necessary to throw those kinds of RP aspects, out the window. This leaves a lot fewer ways of RPing.

"d00d, i k33p g3tting sc3w3d ovr3 3vry tim3 i play my sk."
"WTF is this 'Sire' @#%$ your saying d00d?"

Trying to force the masses into RP will never work. Most will at best follow the path of least resistence and/or min/max while going out of their way to mock those few who actually try to RP~

I have no problem with role-playing games, love them. But I think EQ hasn't really been much of one. I'd rather they would concentrate on making the game aspects of it play better than try to retrofit RP into it.

I also think PvP probably needs to be a part of it in a MMORPG. But, I think rather than doing it like they've done it in EQ where the sides can't really cooperate, they need to have multiple sides that can create alliances and keep someone in check that's gotten too far ahead.

I also think the alliances shouldn't be game enforced. That way you can get people agreeing in principal to non-agression, but then you can on a small individual scale still get punks causing problems with the alliance. Sort of like Israel/Palestines and all those broken cease-fire agreements. Whee! But then again, if you got caught breaching the agreement, maybe there could be prisons or stockades for punishment. Firing squads? :p

Griefers are dealt with a simple confirmation box.

1. You start to cast the spell
2. System checks for possible faction hits
3. If a faction hit is negative, you are warned ahead of time.

If you are already on the hate list, then no confirmation box comes up, you've taken the faction hit.

We already know this sort of confirmation-box thing works because they added it to the "thou shalt not attack red cons if under level 10 thing.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Why do you want to do this?

You seem to agree that these changes would not in any way promote roleplay, so I assume you want to randomly change the game on the grounds that if you changed it it would be different.

Well, /shrug, thats a bit of a tautology.

soru [/quote]

Soru you are being deliberately obtuse here. You give tangible rewards for people who role-play in accordance with faction membership to encourage role-playing. The rewards need to be ones that will appeal to powergamers. This does not force role-play, it does not make someone speak as if they are in character, but it does at least restrict some of the utter nonsense we see in a game that has a design that effectively punishes role-playing.

Even if its as simple as:
SK_01: Hey, wanna group?
Pal_01: Sorry, I'm in the KoT(Knights of Truth) I'll take a faction hit for grouping with you.
SK_01: K, np

Thats role-play. Ok, admittedly its weak role-play, but at the very least you have a situation where Pal_01 has to make a choice between their membership in their faction organization and the rewards it gives versus the rewards of grouping with someone who is a enemy of that faction.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Qwin:
The main reason RP didn't work well in EQ is simply do to the mass amounts of interdependency built into the system. In most fantasy systems, no elf would willing, without a substantial reason that is, associate with 90% of the rest of the races, and only begrudgingly associate with other elf races.[/quote]

Not according to game lore. While the elves are reserved in general, they do frequently interact with the outside world. Wood elves are rather outgoing and known to even form relationships with humans, giving rise to wood elves. The dark elves have allies among the Ogres and Trolls.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Tilien:
"d00d, i k33p g3tting sc3w3d ovr3 3vry tim3 i play my sk."
"WTF is this 'Sire' @#%$ your saying d00d?"

Trying to force the masses into RP will never work. Most will at best follow the path of least resistence and/or min/max while going out of their way to mock those few who actually try to RP~ [/quote]

Thats why you don't force them. No one would have to be a member of a faction org if they didn't want to. Nothing in what I have proposed includes *requiring* role-play. Certainly if the majority of the game joins these alliances and starts behaving appropriately, then the non-roleplayers may feel social pressure to role-play, but then again this is a MMORPG (if only technically) so I hardly see that as a bad thing.

<strong>You give tangible rewards for people who role-play in accordance with faction membership to encourage role-playing.</strong>


I think you're overlooking one point. Complying with faction rules is simply complying with faction rules, not roleplaying. At best, it's a simplistic, cookie-cutter approach to roleplaying....so much so, it's not even worth the attempt.

As an example, suppose someone decides to roleplay a renegade. They deliberately kill members of their particular race or faction (they don't want to help the other factions, but they hate their own). They stay perfectly in role 110% of the time. Yet, the system described would not reward them for this superlative roleplaying. Why? Because the system rewards compliance with a set of faction rules, not roleplaying.

You cannot define roleplaying in terms of faction rules.


P.S. This is not to say that faction rules in a MMORPG cannot be fun and interesting. Just don't mistake them for roleplaying.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I can never remember fighting another player character in a tabletop RPG[/quote]

When you said that, I thought you meant person to person.. a few buddies of mine got in a fist fight over it once for something, was easily the funniest thing I have ever seen..

MAGIC MISSILE THIS YOU #*$*^*@

I was going to type out a lengthy reply, but I'm getting tired of repeating myself.

It doesn't really matter honestly, at this point my suggestion would never be implemented in EQ1 because pure inertia has established that people would be afraid of joining faction orgs for fear of not being able to get "phat lewts" as a result, and would be fearful of SOE even reasonably implementing them in the code.

Factions and faction-alliances can boost and enhance role-play if built right. They do not cause role-playing, they can at least provide a coherent framework for it though.

Personally I dont want to roleplay. I don't want to worry about the fact that I chose to play a paladin and the friend I want to group with chose a shadowknight.

If someone else wants to roleplay thats fine by me. But please go and do it in a quiet corner where you won't disturb anyone. Or better yet go play on whichever server was designated as the roleplaying server (Firiona Vie I think?).

A nice idea.

Howabout we start at the beginning, and nix the rediculous names players adorn themselves with?

My 'roleplaying' is not specifically targeted towards other races. Its more like I will roleplay my <strong>environment</strong>. As an example..My druid's last name is ConstantlyLost - and she WILL get lost all the time. This is one of those things that I will RP, just about everytime I group with someone I will warn them about her proclivity to get lost. Sometimes she will - usually accidental but sometimes she will deliberately wander off (not when its dangerous mind you) but just to RP the 'lost scared druid' and see how others react. She also HATES water and has a serious infatuation with 'human monks'. These are things I RP that keep the game fun for me and yet dont affect my ability to progress.

I don't know if I would go for the 'faction' thing - although I completely understand it. I also don't think RP is 'dead'...its just changed. Possibly that it has become more subtle, kind of like each character develops thier own 'quirks' and those are what the RP is now centered around. Thats just my opinion...

nix the rediculous names players adorn themselves with

A player on my server just had her name ripped from her by a @M, erm GM.

Her name was Brewmistress. She was an alt of course, but she was made to be a tradeskiller, hence the name. She built a good reputation for having a good variety of wares at rather good prices.

She supplied me with many parts for my earrings and other fine goods. Reliable, always there, always good prices. She's not there anymore. Some butt wipe, most likely some disgruntled competitor with the name Tradervics, sent in a /petition and got her name changed.

Who is to say what makes a good RP name?

While Fafhrd was taken to his, do you really think that The Grey Mouser's mom gave him his name?

Do you really think that Conan's mom said, hey his last name is going to be The Barbarian?

Look around you, people took names all the time for what they did or what their professions were.

Tom Sawyer, someone in his family once cut wood.
Becky Thatcher, someone in her family once put roofs on houses.
Ari Fleischer, someone in is family once cut meat.
Ron Goldman, someone in his family once was a jeweler.
Heck, Mark Twain, someone in his family rowed a boat.


If some ogre Warrior takes the name Meeum Smashumnuts,,, well, doesn't he? I mean really, that is his job isn't it.

And if some tradeskiller wants to take the name Brewmistress,(because that is what her job was), who the hell has the right to say, that's not RP enough for EQ?

If Fritz Lieber can RP name a great Rogue character(one of the better ones, I might add) after a cat, why not?

I mean, what else did Lancelot do?

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Tom Sawyer, someone in his family once cut wood.
Becky Thatcher, someone in her family once put roofs on houses.
Ari Fleischer, someone in is family once cut meat.
Ron Goldman, someone in his family once was a jeweler.
Heck, Mark Twain, someone in his family rowed a boat.[/quote]

Notice those are surnames. Was the name Brewmistress a surname or firstname? I don't really get my shorts in a bundle over names, but even I, who hardly ever roleplays in EQ, would prefer to have first names that are more in character with the setting. Surnames that describe a profession are totally RP flavored, in my opinion, but first names really shouldn't describe what you do for a living. Unless the parent in question is an ogre, and honestly expects their child to grow up and "Smashem," you wouldn't expect a parent on Norrath to give a child a name that describes a profession, would you? Unless, of course, you are planning on giving your RL firstborn child a first name, oh something like, "Schoolteacher," "Politician," or "Burgerflipper." :)

Ultimately, I really don't care about names unless the name is terribly offensive (I once reported a gnome with a name that alluded to child molestation). However, I do miss the more stringent restrictions on first names. Out of place names just do a little more to erode the already small sense of immersion the game imparts, IMHO.

Aldane Aglond
Ayonae Ro

Notice those are surnames

Well, I just chalk that up to the EQ requirement of having only unique first names.

but first names really shouldn't describe what you do for a living

This is the point that got me out to post on this topic in the first place, why do you get to decide whose name is RP or not? I thought that I was clear in it.

Oh, and in many Asian cultures(I'm sure others as well) it is common for the family name(surname) to actually be the first.

you wouldn't expect a parent on Norrath to give a child a name that describes a profession, would you?

NO, but in some cultures parents are not those who chose a persons name, especially those which allow the choice of names, you can come up with some interesting combinations of first and last(professions or no); and that's no Sitting Bull.

EverQuest could have been a great game that was filled with roleplaying. Unfortunately they turned it into LootQuest and there were no penalties or rewards for playing your role. Take a look at Star Wars Galaxies.

I'm having an absolute blast playing my Imperial Medic/Sniper. I have an Imperial Uniform and am working on my Stormtrooper armor. I can look the part and roleplay the part. And the best thing of all... most of the other Imperials do as well. It's the rebel faction that seem to have garnered the most d00d's.

That being said however, I have seen and participated in a helluva lot more roleplaying on SWG than I ever have in EQ. That's saying a lot considering I've played EQ for two and a half years and have only been playing SWG a little over a month.

I wish EQ2 could use the same kind of skill/profession system and include factional based PvP with rewards for taking a role in your factions interests and promoting those interests.

I was involved in a massive battle the other night. Around 15 to 20 rebel terrorists snuck into Bestine under cover of darkness and managed to take a fort on a hill that overlooks the city. One imperial trooper managed to flee and warned the rest of us imperials that were gathering at the barracks and near the imperial mission terminals.

We all donned our armor, uniforms, called our troops to our sides (faction points can be spent for npc pets like mage pets in EQ) and formed up in front of the cantina. The squad leader (elite profession in SWG) used one of their abilities to send an inspirational message to the group and we all charged up the hill. A second group of imperials gathered left the barracks and circled behind the fort and a pincer strike was co-ordinated between the two squad leaders.

Ten imperials in each group. Each of us had one or two troopers under our command and our group had an AT-ST. My group went up the hill... massive, and I mean massive blaster fire, grenades, explosions starting going off. Creature handlers sent in their pets from the rebel side and it was just awesome.

The rebels put of a good fight and held my group off... but the second group came charging over the hill and caught the rebels in a cross-fire and it was over. The fort was retaken and a celebration ensued. Some entertainers from the cantina, sympathetic to the Empires cause came up to the fort and danced and played great music for the troops and much roleplaying was to be had.

Some fireworks were set off as well from the fort and drew in civilians from Bestine that were curious. Others came to thank us for defending them against the rebel terrorists. I've never had that much fun playing an online game as I did that night. I'm so glad I couldn't sleep that night and just kept playing. I was about to turn in to the barracks and log off when I got the summons to form up.

Oh... um... on topic I guess... the names in EQ are horrendous. I really wish they had a much more aggressive naming policy and guides that could enforce it actively instead of relying on the playerbase. The same can be said for SWG... but it's not as bad. As for why do I get to decide whose name is RP or not? Well.. that would be my 12 years of playing fantasy roleplaying games and good deal of common sense.

Ichibum Skratchifast is ok I guess... humorous, but so many other people just make ridiculously stupid names. Those names don't stick in my memory much... and if you do something nice for me, I'm likely to forget you the moment you leave my sight or group. If you've got a name that fits the setting, I'm much more likely to remember you and remember any good deeds done or services rendered.

Also, when I'm looking for people for a group... I tend to skip over the idiotic names unless they're the only ones left.

Heh, swg is sounding pretty cool. :)

For me, it seems like role-playing happens when you're new to the game, or with low-level characters. After awhile all the fuss of getting levels, geared up and it slips away for most people.

I do know of one ogre warrior that always roleplays his part and he's a lot of fun to be around.

That's what I like about SWG. You can, if you want, grind and grind and grind and get your character maxxed out in a couple weeks or a month, depending on how much you play. So the achievers have nothing to keep them going which gets rid of the leet lewt whore d00ds because once you max out your character, you pretty much will have the best gear you're going to get.

And if you play your cards right, you can have all the faction perks you want by the end of that month as well. It's roughly 15,000 faction points to get a full set of stormtrooper armor. I can earn around 500 to 800 points a night if I'm diligent and that's all I work on. I'm still gaining healing and weapons xp as well while gaining faction though. Just not roleplaying as much or taking part in rebel/imp battles.

Once I get my armor and the skills I want... it's all about the Glactic Civil War and roleplaying. Exploring the universe, taking part of the monthly story arcs. This months story arc was awesome but out of my league. I'm not a crypto. For completing the monthly story quest, you got an encrypted message fragment. There were 26 fragments for each faction. And you had to decrypt them yourself. Not in the game using character skills.

There's a 1000+ posts thread on the SWG forums where a bunch of people gathered together, shared the fragments and discusessed how to decrypt it.

I'm loving SWG. Except for a few nasty exploits and a crappy skill called Knockdown... I'm really happy with the way it is.