View Full Forums : We Must Trust People To Do The Right Thing


Fyyr Lu'Storm
05-30-2007, 07:38 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/conditions/05/30/tb.flight/index.html?eref=rss_topstories


Unbelievable.

Tudamorf
05-30-2007, 10:19 PM
He voluntarily surrendered himself in the United States. He tried to ask the CDC for a ride home, but they refused. He just didn't want to be treated in Italy, and I don't blame him.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/italy/story/0,,2074070,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12A face mask which emitted massive and fatal doses of anaesthetic gas instead of oxygen has been blamed for the sudden death of a 73-year-old patient at an Italian coronary unit and is suspected to have killed another seven patients at the unit since it opened 17 days ago.

The gas mix-up is the latest of a series of health scandals to surface in Italy recently. In January a 16-year-old girl in Calabria went into a coma and died after a power cut struck the operating theatre in which she was having her appendix out. Police in January raided Europe's largest hospital, Umberto Primo in Rome, after rubbish and dog excrement was found in tunnels used to transport patients.

In February three patients at a Florence hospital were given transplanted organs from a HIV-positive donor due to a labelling error.

After 20 years of stop-start construction, Castellaneta hospital in Puglia opened in 2005. The building is topped by a Louvre-style glass pyramid, but doctors complain that the lifts are too small for wheeled stretchers.

Gunny Burlfoot
05-31-2007, 03:04 AM
He tried to ask the CDC for a ride home, but they refused

Did you read the first article?

He told the newspaper that he asked the CDC whether they would provide a jet for him to return home, and was told there was no money for it.

But Gerberding told CNN, "I don't think that that's an accurate description of what actually happened involving the CDC."

"We were doing everything we could to try to find a way to get him home," she said. "In fact, the irony is that when we were no longer able to reach him, we were even preparing to send the CDC plane to Europe to bring him home at government expense."

She noted that it was Memorial Day weekend and because of the holiday, "it took some time to get all the pieces together."

The CDC is a government agency, therefore it takes some time to do things that are not on the normal action plans. Unless you believe the CDC interviewee was lying, they were going to fly him home at government expense if all other methods failed.

If you ask who is more believable, the guy who went halfway around the world knowing he had TB and he was contagious, or the CDC official whose job it is to contain such people, I'm going with the CDC official.

The CDC is not without blame though. Quarantines are by definition, somewhat involuntary. Trust the individuals, but have a way to check quickly that the individuals are obeying the laws of the quarantine. They should have put one of those ankle halters on the man. Problem solved.

Tudamorf
05-31-2007, 03:30 AM
The CDC is a government agency, therefore it takes some time to do things that are not on the normal action plans.I would hope than in the case of outbreaks of extremely dangerous infectious organisms, they would work a little faster than, say, the post office delivering the average letter.

That is their primary function -- disease control -- isn't it?Unless you believe the CDC interviewee was lying, they were going to fly him home at government expense if all other methods failed.I believe they could have chartered a flight home for him in 15 minutes if they really wanted to. And although private chartered flights are expensive, I'll bet that option would have been a supreme bargain compared to the amount they now have to waste tracking down all of the potentially infected people.

LauranCoromell
05-31-2007, 11:05 AM
Maybe they wanted to send their plane as I imagine they have filtered areas and protections set up for the crew that wouldn't be available on just any charter?

Panamah
05-31-2007, 04:02 PM
I dreamed about this last night... that I was exposed and I developed a sudden cough! Ack!

LauranCoromell
05-31-2007, 05:17 PM
Interesting information on this person and his father-in-law:

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/health-tuberculosis-scare-airplane/20070529152509990002?ncid=NWS00010000000001

Panamah
05-31-2007, 05:27 PM
I noticed the guy was a lawyer... figures he'd just ignore the order to stay off of commercial transport.

Tudamorf
05-31-2007, 06:19 PM
I noticed the guy was a lawyer... figures he'd just ignore the order to stay off of commercial transport.He thought he'd die if he weren't treated at home. Under those circumstances, you'd probably ignore the order too.

Tudamorf
05-31-2007, 07:06 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070531/ap_on_re_us/tuberculosis_infection_90<b>Border agent allowed TB patient in U.S.</b>

ATLANTA - A globe-trotting Atlanta lawyer with a dangerous strain of tuberculosis was allowed back into the U.S. by a border inspector who disregarded a computer warning to stop him and don protective gear, officials said Thursday. The inspector has been removed from border duty.

The unidentified inspector explained that he was no doctor but that the infected man seemed perfectly healthy and that he thought the warning was merely "discretionary," officials briefed on the case told The Associated Press. They spoke on condition of anonymity because the matter is still under investigation.

Speaker said in a newspaper interview that he knew he had TB when he flew from Atlanta to Europe in mid-May for his wedding and honeymoon, but that he did not find out until he was already in Rome that it was an extensively drug-resistant strain considered especially dangerous.

Despite warnings from federal health officials not to board another long flight, he flew home for treatment, fearing he wouldn't survive if he didn't reach the U.S., he said. He said he tried to sneak home by way of Canada instead of flying directly into the U.S.

He was quarantined May 25, a day after he was allowed to pass through the border crossing at Champlain, N.Y., along the Canadian border.

The inspector ran Speaker's passport through a computer, and a warning — including instructions to hold the traveler, don a protective mask in dealing with him, and telephone health authorities — popped up, officials said. About a minute later, Speaker was instead cleared to continue on his journey, according to officials familiar with the records.

The Homeland Security Department is investigating. "The border agent who questioned that person is at present performing administrative duties," said Homeland Security spokesman Russ Knocke, adding those duties do not include checking people at the land border crossing.

Colleen Kelley, president of the union that represents customs and border agents, declined to comment on the specifics of the case, but said "public health issues were not receiving adequate attention and training" within the agency.Your tax dollars at work.

Fyyr Lu'Storm
05-31-2007, 08:01 PM
He thought he'd die if he weren't treated at home. Under those circumstances, you'd probably ignore the order too.

He ignored the order when he was already at home.

He got told to stay when he was over here, not just over there.

Fyyr Lu'Storm
05-31-2007, 08:03 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070531/ap_on_re_us/tuberculosis_infection_90Your tax dollars at work.

I want my tax dollars spent on stopping people from spreading AB resistant disease.



TB before antibiotics was a horrible scourge on humanity, this man is potentially responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of people. This man and every person he has infected needs to be isolated from the rest of the population until they are no longer contagious.

Tudamorf
05-31-2007, 11:08 PM
He ignored the order when he was already at home.

He got told to stay when he was over here, not just over there.No, his father-in-law who works at the CDC studying TB (oddly enough) suggested that he stay. He did not find out he had XDR TB until he was in Europe, and was not ordered to report to a health authority until then.

Tudamorf
05-31-2007, 11:15 PM
TB before antibiotics was a horrible scourge on humanity, this man is potentially responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of people.Please. Drug resistance is not his fault. If he hadn't contracted it, someone else would have.

What I find even more troubling about this case is, how did he contract XDR TB, in the United States?

LauranCoromell
06-01-2007, 10:55 AM
If this article is correct it would seem that he was told when he left the States that he wasn't a danger to anyone. He did know of the danger before leaving Europe however but said he feared for his life if he didn't return.

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/health-tuberculosis-scare-airplane/20070529152509990002?ncid=NWS00010000000001

Panamah
06-01-2007, 12:48 PM
My mind went wild yesterday when I heard his father-in-law works for the CDC on tuberculosis... I concocted all kinds of plots where the father-in-law infected him. :)

But yeah, I'm real curious how he got it. Apparently they use surgery to treat it. I think they collapse the lung.

Aidon
06-01-2007, 01:44 PM
He ignored the order when he was already at home.

He got told to stay when he was over here, not just over there.

Did you read the article?

The CDC suggested he not fly...when asked repeatedly by the man's father-in-law (who works for the CDC...and works on TB, ironically) who recorded the conversations, they basically told him "You're not contagious, but we have to suggest you not fly in order to cover our asses".

Tudamorf
06-01-2007, 02:51 PM
My mind went wild yesterday when I heard his father-in-law works for the CDC on tuberculosis... I concocted all kinds of plots where the father-in-law infected him. :)The father-in-law claimed that neither he nor the CDC had anything to do with it.

But you have to admit, it's quite a coincidence.

Tudamorf
07-12-2007, 10:50 PM
Heh, now he's getting sued. There is some poetic justice in it, in that he's a personal injury lawyer.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/07/12/international/i135703D82.DTL<b>Nine File Suit Against TB-Infected Man</b>

(07-12) 16:46 PDT MONTREAL, Canada (AP) --

Nine people filed a $1.3 million lawsuit Thursday against the globe-trotting tuberculosis patient for possibly exposing them to the disease on a commercial flight from Prague to Montreal.

Montreal lawyer Anlac Nguyen filed the motion in Quebec Superior Court on behalf of seven Canadians and two natives of the Czech Republic. Eight were passengers on the flight with Andrew Speaker and the ninth is a brother and roommate of one of the passengers.

Speaker, a 31-year-old Atlanta personal injuries attorney, was in Europe when he learned tests showed he had an extremely drug-resistant strain of tuberculosis known as XDR-TB.

Despite warnings from health officials not to board another international flight, Speaker took a Czech state-run CSA jetliner to Montreal in early May as part of his return trip home. He subsequently became the first American quarantined by the federal government since 1963, and is currently undergoing treatment under isolation in a Denver hospital.

Health officials now say Speaker's strain of TB is not the extremely drug resistant kind but a more treatable, multi-drug-resistant form of the disease. They say tests so far indicate his risk of spreading the infection are low.

"They do not have tuberculosis, but nobody can say that they won't have tuberculosis either," Nguyen said of his clients. "And that will not be known, not now, not next year, but for many years in the future, so the pain and suffering that the people have gone through are real. They continue to suffer now because of the uncertainty."

While in Rome, Speaker said he was advised by a CDC official that test results indicated he had extensively drug-resistant tuberculosis, or XDR-TB, and should either go into isolation at an Italian hospital or pay for a private air ambulance to return to the U.S.

Speaker is being treated in isolation at the National Jewish Medical and Research Center in Denver. Contacted by telephone, Speaker said he has not hired an attorney. He said he is concentrating on his treatment and will worry about any legal ramifications when he returns to his home in Atlanta.

"Honestly, right now, I'm going to have all that kind of stuff to think about when I get home," he said. "Right now I want to worry about my treatment and get home. I do hope that no one contracted this."

Speaker's father Ted — a lawyer who founded the Atlanta firm where his son works — said they would wait until the lawsuit is served before responding.

"When they do serve him we will be replying to it," said Ted Speaker, who added that he was not surprised by the lawsuit.

Nassim Tabri sat one row in front of Speaker. Tabri, a 26-year-old Montreal graduate student, found out about his possible exposure when a reporter called him after news of the incident broke last month.

He is seeking $134,900 — the highest amount sought among the nine plaintiffs, mostly for pain, suffering and "loss of opportunities".

"At the very first moment that I found out, I was obviously very stressed, very shocked," said Tabri, who slept through most of the flight. "I'm still very stressed out about it. He deliberately got on this plane, endangered our lives and this is very selfish and reckless behavior that deserves to be punished."

Nguyen said one of the plaintiffs, a 72-year-old man, tested positive for tuberculosis in an initial skin test, but it was unclear if it was related to contact with Speaker.

Health experts caution that TB skin tests can yield false-positive results and that further tests are required.

The man now lives in a separate room from his wife, according to the motion.

Public Health Agency of Canada spokesman Alain Desroches said "at this point there is no evidence that any one on the flight contracted TB from Andrew Speaker."

Tabri said he had a negative test for tuberculosis, which he said meant only that he had not been exposed to the disease prior to his contact with Speaker. Tabri said that he anxiously awaits results of further tests within a month.

"His life has gone through the greatest turmoil," Nguyen said. "He has had to change all his academic plans."

Nguyen said he expects Speaker will be served by a bailiff within the next five to 10 days.I suppose he should be thankful it wasn't filed in the U.S., or they'd be asking $1.3 billion instead of $1.3 million.