Probably some of you have heard this. A woman was taken to an ER room in Los Angeles and left to die, writhing on the ground in pain, vomiting blood. No one would help her.

Here's the initial story: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-king20may20,0,6057993.story?coll=la-home-center

Turns out the 911 operator (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-calls13jun13,1,36757.story?ctrack=2&cset=true) her boyfriend tried to get help them wouldn't send anyone out either.

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_6132668

How callous can people be?

It's hard to imagine any rational excuse for this.

The proposed "fix" (shutting down the hospital) is just going to make the problems worse for another hospital. I don't see any reasonable excuse for this nor do I see a good solution.

It was sickening to read that. There is no excuse for this, the staff should have proper triage training, how could this get past all of them? If they've become that detached they need to be replaced.

The other thing is that when she was examined the first time, she was given pain pills and an appt to see a doctor. Come on, where's the medical training? Sounds like a few doctors need to be paddled to.

Just shown this to my GF who is an A&E nurse and I don't think i've heard her curse so much in years :frown:

It's horrible in every way. I can't believe the police or medical staff will be able provide any satisfactory answer for their conduct.

It's hard to imagine any rational excuse for this.Not an excuse per se, but an explanation -- it's an inner city hospital in South Central L.A.

In LA they dump indigent patients on Skid Row knowing they have no place to live.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6376588
Authorities are launching a criminal investigation after police officers in Los Angeles say they videotaped five hospital patients being dumped on Skid Row over the weekend. The incident is being cited as the latest in an ongoing problem of indigent hospital patients being dumped on the streets with no one to care for them.

The 50 square blocks of Skid Row are home to more than 10,000 people with no where else to go. It has many shelters, social service agencies -- as well as convicted sex offenders and just about any illegal drug you can think of.

In other words, it's no place for someone who's still sick enough to be transported in an ambulance. But last Sunday, Los Angeles police captured video and still photos of five patients from a single hospital being dropped off in front of the Volunteers of America Service Center.

If I was injured at home tonight, and was unconscious or otherwise unable to express my wishes, this is the ER I would be taken to.

I'm being careful these days.

You would be surprised how often things like this happen in hospitals. I had an incident when I was a teenager, where I had a large gash in my wrist and had nearly cut my finger off, I had lost so much blood, I was nearly out of it, but, remained conscious, at one point I couldn't even talk or say my name. So, after an hour wait in an er room, they finally got me stitched up, and I had been lucky I only nicked a few veins and arteries slightly, otherwise I would have bled out, I didn't get an Iv or blood transfusions either, and I needed both. They were looking for my parents, who worked an hour away, and had to call my school to get her work number, so that took some time.

There were other incidents in the area as well. One guy had an asythma attack and waited in the Er, waiting room, 3 hours later they discovered he had been dead for a couple hours, after treating multiple acute things like the flu. Another guy had a stroke, came in and waited in the Er waiting room before having another one that killed him.

One guy had an asythma attack and waited in the Er, waiting room, 3 hours later they discovered he had been dead for a couple hours, after treating multiple acute things like the flu. Another guy had a stroke, came in and waited in the Er waiting room before having another one that killed him.Perhaps if the ER were really an ER, not a UR (uninsured room), true emergencies wouldn't get overlooked. (And my health insurance bill would be a lot lower.)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,193883,00.html

In LA they dump indigent patients on Skid Row knowing they have no place to live.

Of course if they have no place to live where else should or would they be dumped.

You sound almost incredulous.


"OH My God, homeless people don't have homes!!!"

Oh, and did anyone notice that this is a government run hospital.

Sure helps the argument for government run healthcare, don't it?

Being the manager of a 56 bed Critical Care Unit for our Inner City Trauma Center, I have seen some really bad things. About 3 years ago, our ER was facing some similiar problems. Have we had people die in the ER waiting room? Unfortunately yes, but things have changed. And this is how.

The other hospitals in our city stood up and helped. They knew #1 they would not be able to handle the 300 - 700 patients our ER sees every day, #2 they would not WANT to handle those patients, as most of them are uninsured, and #3 that Wishard provides a valuable service to our community.

I am not saying there is any excuse as to what happened or has happened in that ER in LA. I only can imagine there were other emergencies - Gunshots, Knifings, active heart attacks - going on and not nearly enough nurses and doctors. Unfortunately, if you are not brought in through the back door in an ambulance, you are forced to wait out front for hours and it looks like in this case until you die.

In the past 3 years we have improved dramatically with the quality of care, so much so that we got a spotless review by JCAHO in October. And the other good news is, because of the other hospital's assistance, we have been able to decrease the amount we are in debt each year.

My suggestion? If LA wants to be able to continue to offer service at this hospital - then the other hospitals need to step up and help. Otherwise, it is a sure disaster waiting to happen if all of those patients currently being seen at MLK have to go to other ER's.

To me it seems less that the ER was packed and they couldn't get to her, as much as it seems like she had been there many times, and they were sick of dealing with her (although it may be because were sick of dealing with the same person when others needed stuff to) {Not that I'm exscusing their actions}

"Thanks a lot, officers," an emergency room nurse told Los Angeles County police who brought in Rodriguez early May 9 after finding her in front of the Willowbrook hospital yelling for help. "This is her third time here."

And what do you do with a recurrent belligerent drug-seeking non-paying patron of your services? When she comes back day after day looking for a fix.

If I own a bar, I am ethically and legally obligated to NOT serve them, to NOT provide them with their drugs, and to call the police to escort them off the property. Even if they are willing to pay me.

If I own an ER, I am ethically and legally obligated to serve them, and provide them with drugs. Even when they don't pay me.

Isn't it a wonderful and whacky world we've created for ourselves?

Of course she came back! They didn't treat her ruptured intestines appropriately the first time and she didn't have the good sense to die writhing in agony at home....

The Shepherd's Boy and the Wolf

A Shepherd-boy, who watched a flock of sheep near a village, brought out the villagers three or four times by crying out, "Wolf! Wolf!" and when his neighbors came to help him, laughed at them for their pains. The Wolf, however, did truly come at last. The Shepherd-boy, now really alarmed, shouted in an agony of terror: "Pray, do come and help me; the Wolf is killing the sheep"; but no one paid any heed to his cries, nor rendered any assistance. The Wolf, having no cause of fear, at his leisure lacerated or destroyed the whole flock.

There is no believing a liar, even when he speaks the truth.

Could someone explain to me how this woman, with a ruptured intestine that wasn't properly diagnosed on her prior two visits, somehow is similar to the Shepard-boy?

Take a day off from work.

Go sit in the ER waiting room of your local county hospital, for that day.

That might satisfy your request for explanation, Pan.

*sigh*

The woman had a ruptured bowel. God, are all you people in health care so convinced of your infallability that you can't recognize when you make mistakes? How the heck do you intend to learn if you don't acknowledge that mistakes are sometimes made? Especially if you just decide that everyone rolling around on the floor in pain and vomiting blood is just asking for drugs?

You look at someone underweight who can't gain weight and instantly leap to the conclusion of anorexia. You get someone returning to the ER and immediately diagnose drug addict. You stop listening to patients and make up your own minds before you even look into possible other diagnoses. That's the problem with our health care system, we've got crappily trained doctors and probably other health care professionals unwilling to do proper diagnosis. It isn't the source of the funds, it's the people those funds are employing.

As an example:

Anne Dodge had lost count of all the doctors she had seen over the past fifteen years. She guessed it was close to thirty. Now, two days after Christmas 2004, on a surprisingly mild morning, she was driving again into Boston to see yet another physician. Her primary care doctor had opposed the trip, arguing that Anne's problems were so long-standing and so well defined that this consultation would be useless. But her boyfriend had stubbornly insisted. Anne told herself the visit would mollify her boyfriend and she would be back home by midday.

Anne is in her thirties, with sandy brown hair and soft blue eyes. She grew up in a small town in Massachusetts, one of four sisters. No one had had an illness like hers. Around age twenty, she found that food did not agree with her. After a meal, she would feel as if a hand were gripping her stomach and twisting it. The nausea and pain were so intense that occasionally she vomited. Her family doctor examined her and found nothing wrong. He gave her antacids. But the symptoms continued. Anne lost her appetite and had to force herself to eat; then she'd feel sick and quietly retreat to the bathroom to regurgitate. Her general practitioner suspected what was wrong, but to be sure he referred her to a psychiatrist, and the diagnosis was made: anorexia nervosa with bulimia, a disorder marked by vomiting and an aversion to food. If the condition was not corrected, she could starve to death.

Over the years, Anne had seen many internists for her primary care before settling on her current one, a woman whose practice was devoted to patients with eating disorders. Anne was also evaluated by numerous specialists: endocrinologists, orthopedists, hematologists, infectious disease doctors, and, of course, psychologists and psychiatrists. She had been treated with four different antidepressants and had undergone weekly talk therapy. Nutritionists closely monitored her daily caloric intake.

But Anne's health continued to deteriorate, and the past twelve months had been the most miserable of her life. Her red blood cell count and platelets had dropped to perilous levels. A bone marrow biopsy showed very few developing cells. The two hematologists Anne had consulted attributed the low blood counts to her nutritional deficiency. Anne also had severe osteoporosis. One endocrinologist said her bones were like those of a woman in her eighties, from a lack of vitamin D and calcium. An orthopedist diagnosed a hairline fracture of the metatarsal bone of her foot. There were also signs that her immune system was failing; she suffered a series of infections, including meningitis. She was hospitalized four times in 2004 in a mental health facility so she could try to gain weight under supervision.

To restore her system, her internist had told Anne to consume three thousand calories a day, mostly in easily digested carbohydrates like cereals and pasta. But the more Anne ate, the worse she felt. Not only was she seized by intense nausea and the urge to vomit, but recently she had severe intestinal cramps and diarrhea. Her doctor said she had developed irritable bowel syndrome, a disorder associated with psychological stress. By December, Anne's weight dropped to eighty-two pounds. Although she said she was forcing down close to three thousand calories, her internist and her psychiatrist took the steady loss of weight as a sure sign that Anne was not telling the truth.

That day Anne was seeing Dr. Myron Falchuk, a gastroenterologist. Falchuk had already gotten her medical records, and her internist had told him that Anne's irritable bowel syndrome was yet another manifestation of her deteriorating mental health. Falchuk heard in the doctor's recitation of the case the implicit message that his role was to examine Anne's abdomen, which had been poked and prodded many times by many physicians, and to reassure her that irritable bowel syndrome, while uncomfortable and annoying, should be treated as the internist had recommended, with an appropriate diet and tranquilizers.

But that is exactly what Falchuk did not do. Instead, he began to question, and listen, and observe, and then to think differently about Anne's case. And by doing so, he saved her life, because for fifteen years a key aspect of her illness had been missed.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=8892053

You don't have any ability to judge me, Pan.

Your ignorance of the type of 'clientele' that this person was can be judged though. Why I suggested that you go and see for yourself.

Go see for yourself, and *sigh* there.

With all due respect to Fyyr, I have to agree with Pan on this. I have worked in many ED's and those are the most callous and judgemental nurses I have ever met. Excellent in saving lives - and I would want one there if my family were dying. Still, they judge people in the 2 seconds they lay eyes on them.

Now in respect for them, usually they have been conditioned to be that way. Nothing is more disappointing than really working hard to help someone to find out they had been lying to you. A case I recall is a girl in her twenties that came in to ED - she complained she wasnt feeling well. About 20 minutes later her boyfriend came running into the nurses station saying she was seizing. Lo and behold she was. We all worked for about 30 minutes to get her to stop seizing (very hard to get an IV in someone who is stiff as a board) Anyway, huge long story short - she was faking it for the drugs.

I have always had the attitude when I care for patients that I treat them as I would want my own family member treated. I have cared for the owner of the Colts and for street persons with no family - and they all got the same treatment. I only wish more practioners would do that. It really shouldn't matter how much money you have, or how many times you have been here, or how bad your psych issues are, everyone deserves to be treated like a human and with dignity.

It really shouldn't matter how much money you have,Does that mean you'd be willing to treat them without getting paid yourself? And to pay out of your own pocket for all the supplies they use up?

It's easy to be idealistic when you're spending someone else's money.

I'm an ICU nurse, now.

I take care of every single person who comes up with respect. I don't care who you are, or what you were in terms of patient care. It don't matter to me. Nice for the psychosocial conversations and all, for sure. But it does not change your care.

We do have a consistent frequent flyer patient who is not as considerate. She always comes in on an ambulance, so this case is not really a factor.

She always comes in with DKA, with drugs and alcohol in her system. Abusive and belligerent. Two times a month at least. I won the last poll, BS of 954(I picked 1000, should have forced the money bet part with the other nurses).

She always gets sent up to ICU because she needs an insulin drip, of course.

Her new trip now, now that there are male nurse up in ICU, is not only to stand up and urinate on the floor intentionally, but when a male nurse is assigned, she stands up urinates and starts masturbating while screaming her obscenities. She gets to have 2, two, ICU nurses assigned to her at those times.

We(I wasn't on) called the cops on her last Wednesday night to have her removed. Which is what I will do if she ever plays her games on me.

Now of course her mom was an asshole, tricked her out when she was 13 and all. But I did not get into nursing to be abused or to be a psych nurse. And I don't have to be. Her mom has never paid into the system, her grandmother never paid into the system, she will never, never pay into the system.

I don't care if my patient is a doc or a nurse, or an illegal alien, or some rich business owner, or a welfare mother of eight. I don't care. I will treat you with respect, if you treat me with respect.

And I dare you to find me a County or City or government run ER waiting room in the country which has not had a patient stroke out, or have an MI in it, because the triage nurse made a mistake. If I were a ER nurse(thank whatever gods you believe in, that I'm not), and especially a triage nurse, and some patient came to me belligerent,,, they could go and fvck themselves, especially if they are not paying me to take their sh1t. (in fact, now, I am paying them).

And to pay out of your own pocket for all the supplies they use up?

Honestly, Tudamorf...

All of the supplies are extremely overpriced because there are not enough payers into the system.

Not because they actually cost a lot to make.

The high price of all the sh1t is high priced only to amortize the cost out(to the payers).

It still only costs a couple bucks to make the crap we sell for a couple hundred.

nm

Does that mean you'd be willing to treat them without getting paid yourself? And to pay out of your own pocket for all the supplies they use up?

It's easy to be idealistic when you're spending someone else's money.

Its a public hospital. Its not "someone elses money" its "our money" and I should hope to God, that the American public doesn't want people slowly dying on an emergency room floor over the course of an hour and forty-five minutes while the medical staff ignores them and the police attempt to incarcerate them.

Its a public hospital. Its not "someone elses money" its "our money"Would you take a belligerent, abusive client pro bono and pay for the expenses of his case out of your own pocket (assuming that's ethically proper in your state)?

How many times would you do that until you've said, enough is enough, I don't even like these people, and I want to get paid?

Would you take a belligerent, abusive client pro bono and pay for the expenses of his case out of your own pocket (assuming that's ethically proper in your state)?

How many times would you do that until you've said, enough is enough, I don't even like these people, and I want to get paid?

Totally different situation. We are talking about people's lives here Tudamorf.

Have I had patients and families abuse me verbally? attempt to physically? Yes!! Does it make me angry? Sometimes. But these are peoples lives. You cannot pick and choose who you are going to help and who you aren't. And Aidon is right, it is just as much my money as it is yours - so yeah I guess I would pay for their healthcare, since I am already heh.

Totally different situation. We are talking about people's lives here Tudamorf.So? We let people die or suffer every day because we're too cheap to do anything about it. Health care is not fundamentally different from any other basic service.Have I had patients and families abuse me verbally? attempt to physically? Yes!! Does it make me angry? Sometimes. But these are peoples lives. You cannot pick and choose who you are going to help and who you aren't.You're addressing Fyyr's point. I'm not talking about being respectful, since that doesn't cost you much of anything.And Aidon is right, it is just as much my money as it is yoursThat really depends on how much you make, and how much I make. We don't all contribute equally to the system.so yeah I guess I would pay for their healthcare, since I am already heh.There's a big difference between paying 0.0000001% and 100%. Let's say I structured your salary as follows: paying client, $20 each, indigent drug-seekers, -$20 each. And let's say you were working in South Central, where you got mostly the latter and virtually none of the former. Would you still believe that everyone should be treated equally? You'd either have to change your mind pretty quickly, or go bankrupt. Either way, you won't be doing it for long (unless you're filthy rich and do it as a charity cause).

Would you take a belligerent, abusive client pro bono and pay for the expenses of his case out of your own pocket (assuming that's ethically proper in your state)?

How many times would you do that until you've said, enough is enough, I don't even like these people, and I want to get paid?

Eh? Are you contending that the staff at the hospital were not being paid?

It was a public institution, they don't get the right to say "We don't like you, we will let you die writhing in agonizing pain on our floor, instead".

Eh? Are you contending that the staff at the hospital were not being paid?The hospital wasn't being paid (though I'm sure the staff's pay was not that great either). Government reimbursement is pitiful for such clients.

The hospital wasn't being paid (though I'm sure the staff's pay was not that great either). Government reimbursement is pitiful for such clients.

The hospital wasn't a private entity. Why can't you grasp the concept?

Its a public hospital. It doesn't get paid, at all. It gets funded..and part of that funding is the mandate to not let indigent people slowly die agonizing deaths on the ****ing emergency room floor over an hour and a half.

I don't care if they're smack heads, alcoholics, rapists, child molesters, or ****ing Arabs. Its a public institution and it damn well better not commit malpractice through purposeful and spiteful decisions to simply ignore a person who appears to be in pain on the floor.

News flash. This lady wasn't faking **** to get drugs...she was dying before their eyes.

This lady wasn't faking **** to get drugs...she was dying before their eyes.

She was doing both.

Why would anyone think that they are mutually exclusive?


We have patients who fake it just so they have a bed to sleep in, a TV to watch, and 3 nutritionally balanced meals a day(and 2 snacks); not let alone drug seekers. And they get their own staff of personal servants to boot.

Its a public hospital. It doesn't get paid, at all. It gets funded..Getting funded is getting paid. It's about someone giving you money to do stuff, whether it's from Medicare or Blue Cross. And the amount they are funded/paid for criminals and drug seekers is pitiful.and part of that funding is the mandate to not let indigent people slowly die agonizing deaths on the ****ing emergency room floor over an hour and a half.Assuming you know that's the case, and that they're not faking it.

On my 21'st birthday I got VERY VERY drunk and threw up alot, my friends left me outside under a window and started taking pictures. Some crackhead walked by and decided to get a pic doing a handstand next to me, crashed through said window and rained glass on me.

A friend drove me to the ER, gave them my insurance card and signed me in. They handed him a pink bucket to put under me. A hour later and 1/3 of the bucket full they manage to find time to see me.

Now it may be a bit arrogant of me to think.. and lets just disregard the fact that I am actually insured, something im sure many of the other people in there were not... but how long does it take for a person bleeding from the face to see a doctor? Aparantly they were taking them first come first serve, not based on severity or things like who could actually pay for themselves or not.

More on this subject here (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-oped0622franklinjun22,1,3740461.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed).

This case, the latest in a series of incidents involving King-Harbor, is being featured in the media as health administrators, politicians and physicians point fingers at each other. In another recent case at King-Harbor, a man with a brain tumor sat for four days in the emergency room while he awaited transfer to another hospital for brain surgery.

...

The particulars in the Rodriguez case may be known only after an official investigation, along with the inevitable lawsuit. Whatever the details, the Rodriguez case exemplifies our public health-care system at its worst. Similar tragedies have occurred at public hospitals in other cities including here in Chicago, but this problem is not confined to the public sector: Several years ago a boy bled to death after being shot right outside the emergency room of one of our North Side's private hospitals.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/23/troubled.hospital.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories


Can you imagine if Martin Luther King, Jr came back from the grave to see all the crappy stuff named after him.