View Full Forums : Vaccine - Autism link
Swiftfox
02-28-2008, 06:30 PM
Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html)
February 25, 2008
Government Concedes Vaccine-Autism Case in Federal Court - Now What?
After years of insisting there is no evidence to link vaccines with the onset of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), the US government has quietly conceded a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims.
Edit:Fixed oddly broken link ...
Adding this link buried at the bottom of that link
The Vaccine-Autism Court Document Every American Should Read (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/the-vaccineautism-court-_b_88558.html)
Fyyr Lu'Storm
02-29-2008, 12:25 AM
Instead of chasing after this silly conspiracy.
Why not chase after the real causes of autism, and other birth defects, instead?
And it is a beautiful conspiracy, if that is your initiative. But at least then you would be right, and that cause is so much easier to fix, once you concede the point.
Swiftfox
02-29-2008, 09:16 AM
From the second link posted:
On Friday, February 22, HHS conceded that this child's complex partial seizure disorder was also caused by her vaccines
How is it a conspiracy theory? The court conceded it was caused by her vaccinations.
Erianaiel
02-29-2008, 10:46 AM
From the second link posted:
How is it a conspiracy theory? The court conceded it was caused by her vaccinations.
Partial seizures are not exactly autism.
Still, parents refusing en masse to have their children vaccinated are going to renew in a hury our understanding why vaccines were invented to begin with. There are after all some lovely diseases floating about with a mortality rate of about 50pct, and quite a few that have mutilating or crippling effects. And even the good old 'harmless' measles is a killer disease once a few generations without exposure have bred out racial immunities.
If I recall correctly there was a ingredient in early vaccination fluids that could theoretically have a toxic effect. This is the only provable claim to potentially harmful effects of vaccination (and those were still negliceable compared to the beneficial effect of tens of thousands of children not dying every year of communable diseases). There is to my knowledge no reliable scientific study that has shown any link between vaccination and occurence of autism. Only an unsubstantiated claim that spawned a myriad of more or less hysterical websites that decried the 'dangers of vaccination'.
It is much the same as how despite all research to the contrary people are still insisting that mobile phone broadcasting antenna are causing all kinds of harmful effects (many of which are incompatible with the physical effects of electromagnetic radiation, even in far higher strength than those antenna produce). It is not a matter of (scientific) facts but of belief, and the people who believe are frequently unable to understand the science behind radio transmissions anyway. They have found 'the explanation' for their ails and hold on to that explanation (because it makes their problems understandable) even if it kills them.
Eri
Swiftfox
02-29-2008, 08:32 PM
I had to Bold the "ALSO" portion
We've had a decade of problems in the UK stemming from one doctor claiming that the MMR vaccine causes autism. Even now, when his research methods have been discredited and his results disproven, their is still a large number of parents who don't immunise. The scare story is still running and puts children's lives at risk.
If you hadn't realised, even before MMR was debated in the UK it was already being given to every kid in the US. As far as I know no research ever showed a link to autism in the US. That vaccine seems safe.
I don't see how one kid developing autism proves anything new in a field where a lot of pre-existing research exists. The settlement out of court may suggest that doctors had not screened the kid properly before giving the vaccine or made clinical errors that prevented a legal defence, regardless of actual impact of the vaccine.
Moreover, I found this statement in the linked article "even if a vaccine injury "manifested" as autism in only one case, isn't that still a significant development worthy of informing the public?" Of course not. How foolish is the author to think that a possible scare over one case should be used as information to stop a widespread vaccination program? Over the last decade the UK government has taken every possible step to reassure the public that MMR is safe yet there is still a low vaccination rate. The scare story is still at work and putting children's health at risk.
(The information shouldn't be deliberately withheld from the public either, but that's a different argument).
Erianaiel
03-01-2008, 02:37 PM
We've had a decade of problems in the UK stemming from one doctor claiming that the MMR vaccine causes autism. Even now, when his research methods have been discredited and his results disproven, their is still a large number of parents who don't immunise. The scare story is still running and puts children's lives at risk.
If you hadn't realised, even before MMR was debated in the UK it was already being given to every kid in the US. As far as I know no research ever showed a link to autism in the US. That vaccine seems safe.
I don't see how one kid developing autism proves anything new in a field where a lot of pre-existing research exists. The settlement out of court may suggest that doctors had not screened the kid properly before giving the vaccine or made clinical errors that prevented a legal defence, regardless of actual impact of the vaccine.
Moreover, I found this statement in the linked article "even if a vaccine injury "manifested" as autism in only one case, isn't that still a significant development worthy of informing the public?" Of course not. How foolish is the author to think that a possible scare over one case should be used as information to stop a widespread vaccination program? Over the last decade the UK government has taken every possible step to reassure the public that MMR is safe yet there is still a low vaccination rate. The scare story is still at work and putting children's health at risk.
(The information shouldn't be deliberately withheld from the public either, but that's a different argument).
It is a good thing that -hopefully- Polio can be erradicated as a disease because experts in the Netherlands are worried that the number of parents who refuse immunisation of their children (thanks to that same idiotic doctor) is such that a single patient could cause an epidemic on that and several other diseases.
Personally, I think that such information should be withheld from the public until the time that everybody is made to learn AND understand the basics of statistics and of sufficient biology to grasp the concept of immunisation. Being able to understand numbers bigger than three should also be a requirement. Scientists too should be banned from being quoted outside of scientific journals until they learn how to phrase things in such a way that they make sense to laymen instead of couching everything in 'ifs, maybes and to our best understanding but we cannot be certains'.
People are notoriously bad at assessing risks, and if children are involved they do not even attempt. The scariest story wins (i.e. people habitually judge the risk of flying to be much much higher than of driving a car even if statistically the chance of something bad happening to them in the second case is hundreds of times as great).
Eri
Madie of Wind Riders
03-02-2008, 07:27 AM
There is still so much the scientific community and health care providers do not know about Autism and why it occurs and how it affects the body that a claim that any vaccine could "cause" Autism is objectionable.
The reported cases of Autism have increased over the last ten years because finally the diagnostic criteria have been firmed up as to what classifys Autism. That doesn't mean more children are "getting" Autism now... it simply means we now are diagnosing children more acurately than 10 years ago.
Scaring parents into NOT having their children vaccinated is one of the stupidest things I have seen in a long time. I have a sister-in-law who is pregnant with twins and she told me she wasn't going to have her children vaccinated because of all the risks involved. As a health care professional I tried to reason with her about the risks involved in not having them vaccinated. She refused to budge on her view point. It is just scary to me that someone is willing to put their children and all the other children they come in contact with at risk like that.
Erianaiel
03-02-2008, 10:49 AM
As a health care professional I tried to reason with her about the risks involved in not having them vaccinated. She refused to budge on her view point. It is just scary to me that someone is willing to put their children and all the other children they come in contact with at risk like that.
Madie, your sister does not understand what happens with vaccination so she can not judge the real risks involved for herself. She therefor decides for the 'better safe than sorry' approach. This is an emotional decision not a logical one so the only way to break through is with an emotional appeal.
Get pictures of horrific diseases. Explain that half the people who develop tuberculosis die of it and the rest is either crippled or mutilated unless they are vaccinated, and that her children have a 100 percent chance of being exposed to the disease if they leave the country. I do not know what exactly the diseases are that are vaccinated against in the USA but here in the Netherlands there are a few that have potential effects that are quite nasty (which is why they ended up in the vaccination program of course).
Appeal to emotions and present only big impressive sounding numbers (if you have to use numbers at all). It is the same kind of debating that opponents of vaccination are using to sway uncertain parents to -their- point of view after all.
Not that I have much doubt that this whole vaccination issue will devolve because of this misinformation until a nasty epidemic can slip through and people are forcibly reminded just why our ancestors thought it not just a good idea, but a literally vital one, to have universal vaccination and innoculation programs.
Eri
Exedor
05-15-2008, 03:17 AM
The plan to put mercury into vaccines was laid out ~100 years ago by Bertrand Russell as a means of chemically lobotomizing the masses to make them more manageable for the eugenicists who want to reduce overpopulation. Their target goal being a world population of 500 million.
Ex,
What the FVCK are you talking about?
More people refuse vaccines on the basis of 'egg allergies' than any other thing.
And autism has less link to vaccines, than it does with mothers who drink, smoke, and take drugs while their babies are being gestated.
Babies are born with autism as a trait. Because their mothers drank, smoked, and took drugs while they were making their babies. For mothers of autistic kids to somehow place the blame on vaccines, which PREVENT the spread of disease from person to person is heinous and egregious.
Those who believe them are retarded sheep.
Erianaiel
05-15-2008, 05:06 PM
The plan to put mercury into vaccines was laid out ~100 years ago by Bertrand Russell as a means of chemically lobotomizing the masses to make them more manageable for the eugenicists who want to reduce overpopulation. Their target goal being a world population of 500 million.
I have no idea if Bertrand Russell was really such a homocidial maniac that he considered poisoning a billion or so people with a rather nasty poison. Given the complete impracticality I am inclined to call it an urban legend (or more likely character assassination by opponents of the time that is no longer seen in the context of the discussion of a century ago).
Most likely even a century ago they already knew what mercury poisoning would do (and no, making people mindless is not one of the effects, though release enough mercury and the population will drop, that much is certain), so objective and means do not seem to match, and the objective stated by this story is extreme, both of which are indications that this is not a true story, but something that was circulated by an opponent to discredit whatever Russell was arguing for or against.
Eri
Panamah
05-17-2008, 11:09 AM
Well, there's one Stanford medical professor who tells his students that 50% of what they're teaching them is wrong and they don't know which 50% that is.
So suffice to say, whatever they believe now, chances are pretty good that somewhere down the road the same cocksure medical folks that fancy themselves scientists will be eating crow about something. It might be vaccines or something completely different.
Fanra
05-30-2008, 09:13 PM
In the U.S., the European Union, and a few other affluent countries, mercury is no longer used as a preservative in childhood vaccines.
Manufacturers were asked to stop using it in 1999 in the USA, by 2001 Thiomersal (mercury) is no longer used in routine childhood vaccines in the U.S.
However, that didn't stop John McCain from saying on February 29, 2008, per ABC News' Bret Hovell, that "It’s indisputable that (autism) is on the rise amongst children, the question is what’s causing it. And we go back and forth and there’s strong evidence that indicates that it’s got to do with a preservative in vaccines."
Erianaiel
05-31-2008, 04:24 PM
In the U.S., the European Union, and a few other affluent countries, mercury is no longer used as a preservative in childhood vaccines.
Manufacturers were asked to stop using it in 1999 in the USA, by 2001 Thiomersal (mercury) is no longer used in routine childhood vaccines in the U.S.
However, that didn't stop John McCain from saying on February 29, 2008, per ABC News' Bret Hovell, that "It’s indisputable that (autism) is on the rise amongst children, the question is what’s causing it. And we go back and forth and there’s strong evidence that indicates that it’s got to do with a preservative in vaccines."
If I were more cynical I would say that you can not really stop people from nominating themselves for the Darwin awards. Of course they are risking the health and lifes of their children, not of themselves so I would not be so crass.
Sooner or later one of the nasty diseases of the past (and I am not talking about diseases like the plague here but 'innocent ones' like measles) are going to cause an epidemic if sufficient people forget the lessons of the past. I guess after that there is going to be a realisation that even -if- there is some negative effect to vaccination it is far outweighed by the positive effect of not having 25pct of the children not living 10 years because of diseases.
Eri
Fanra
07-26-2008, 05:34 AM
TV Really Might Cause Autism
http://www.slate.com/id/2151538/
Swiftfox
08-04-2008, 01:02 AM
http://nwoblogger.com/2008/06/06/drug-companies-and-hiv-and-hpv-in-their-drugs/
Swiftfox
08-20-2008, 11:41 AM
http://www.naturalnews.com/023902.html
Vaccines Found to Cause Diabetes in Children
Two new studies showing that vaccines increase the risk of diabetes have been published in the Open Pediatric Medicine Journal.
In a prior study, published in the journal Autoimmunity, Dr. J. Bartholomew Classen of Classen Immunotherapies and David Carey Classen of the University of Utah compared more than 100,000 children who had received between one and four doses of the hemophilus vaccine with more than 100,000 unvaccinated children. The Classens found that after seven years, children in the vaccination group had a 26 percent higher risk of developing diabetes than children in the non-vaccine group. This amounted to an extra 54 cases of diabetes per 100,000 children vaccinated.
The Classens noted that the vaccine itself is only projected to prevent seven deaths and seven to 26 cases of permanent disability per 100,000 children.
"Our results conclusively prove there is a causal relationship between immunization schedules and diabetes," J. Bartholomew Classen said at the time.
Erianaiel
08-22-2008, 08:35 AM
http://www.naturalnews.com/023902.html
Vaccines Found to Cause Diabetes in Children
I do not know the study in question, but on reading the summary I can think of at least two procedural errors that might significantly skew the outcome.
One is that the occurence of child diabetes is increasing sharply in the USA in particular and in Europe to a slightly lesser extent, due to extremely poor nutritional habits (e.g. consuming lots of sugars or sugar derivatives that do not properly trigger the insulin mechanism in the body, consuming foods high in fat content constantly throughout the day instead of limiting food consumption to three or four times a day).
This alone makes any study that uses the increase of diabetes as proof of -anything- suspect.
The other being that there is no garantuee that the selection criterium (vaccinating versus non-vaccinating parents) is not having a profound effect on -other- things that are known to cause diabetes. It may be that the researchers took those effects into account but it is good to remember that large numbers not a reliable study make. It is quite possible this study is similar to one that would find that 'vegetarians are better drivers so there must be something about eating meat that affects cognition' (for the record, I have not know of such a research but it is likely that the effect can be found statistically, if you do not realise that vegetarians are also less likely to a) own a car and b) drink alcohol)
Any research that comes to conclusions based on statistics is worthless unless it also can also show there is a causality between effect measured and cause distinguished against. In the case of this particular study the researchers need to give a likely explanation -why- vaccination may cause diabetes. I.e. which substance in the vaccine, or the typical effects caused by vaccination, is actually causing diabetes. I am not holding much hope that the article (or the researchers) gives any clue.
Eri
Klath
08-22-2008, 09:03 AM
NYT: Measles Cases Grow in Number, and Officials Blame Parents’ Fear of Autism (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/22/health/research/22measles.html?ref=us)
By GARDINER HARRIS
Published: August 21, 2008
More people had measles infections in the first seven months of this year than during any comparable period since 1996, and public health officials blamed growing numbers of parents who refuse to vaccinate their children.
Many of these parents say they believe vaccines cause autism, even though multiple studies have found no reputable evidence to support such a claim. In Britain, Switzerland, Israel and Italy, measles outbreaks have soared, sickening thousands and causing at least two deaths.
From January through July, 131 measles cases were reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention from 15 states and the District of Columbia. Fifteen people, including four infants, were hospitalized. There were no deaths. Nearly all the cases resulted when people traveling abroad or visiting from a foreign country spread the illness to others. In Illinois, 30 people were sickened in one outbreak.
[More... (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/22/health/research/22measles.html?ref=us)]
Madie of Wind Riders
08-24-2008, 06:46 AM
Any research that comes to conclusions based on statistics is worthless unless it also can also show there is a causality between effect measured and cause distinguished against. In the case of this particular study the researchers need to give a likely explanation -why- vaccination may cause diabetes. I.e. which substance in the vaccine, or the typical effects caused by vaccination, is actually causing diabetes. I am not holding much hope that the article (or the researchers) gives any clue.
I 100% agree!!
And from Klath's post... Illinois just happens to be where my sister-in-law lives and just had my newest neice (turned out not to be twins). So difficult as a health care professional to remain calm when discussing this whole issue with her. Sad really.
And how eerily prophetic Eri... from this very thread in May of this year
Sooner or later one of the nasty diseases of the past (and I am not talking about diseases like the plague here but 'innocent ones' like measles) are going to cause an epidemic if sufficient people forget the lessons of the past. I guess after that there is going to be a realisation that even -if- there is some negative effect to vaccination it is far outweighed by the positive effect of not having 25pct of the children not living 10 years because of diseases.
Panamah
08-25-2008, 02:59 PM
Epidemiological studies (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/16/magazine/16epidemiology-t.html?pagewanted=all) regarding nutrition and disease are really, really flawed yet they seem to make headlines a lot.
One is that the occurence of child diabetes is increasing sharply in the USA in particular and in Europe to a slightly lesser extent, due to extremely poor nutritional habits (e.g. consuming lots of sugars or sugar derivatives that do not properly trigger the insulin mechanism in the body, consuming foods high in fat content constantly throughout the day instead of limiting food consumption to three or four times a day).
This alone makes any study that uses the increase of diabetes as proof of -anything- suspect.
Also, it could even be the environment in the womb or the mother's diet (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7481026.stm) that is affecting childhood diabetes. Epigenetics (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3411/02.html) probably plays a key role in the obesity epidemic, and perhaps other epidemics as well.
I don't really have a position on autism and vaccines. I feel like epidemiology is often craptastic and certainly lends itself to being twisted to biases. People make the leap that association is causation way too often. For instance, diabetes and obesity are often seen together. Everyone assumes that obesity causes diabetes, rather than looking a little deeper and finding that both things are caused by something else: resistance to insulin.
Klath
02-12-2009, 02:48 PM
Vaccines didn't cause autism, court rules (http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/02/12/autism.vaccines/index.html)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A special court ruled Thursday that evidence presented in three cases by parents of children with autism did not prove a link between autism and certain early childhood vaccines.
The ruling came from a panel of "special masters" who began hearing three test cases in 2007 involving children with autism -- a disorder that their parents contend was triggered by the vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella combined with vaccines containing thimerosal, a preservative containing mercury.
[More... (http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/02/12/autism.vaccines/index.html)]
Tudamorf
02-12-2009, 04:51 PM
Amazing, the lengths to which people will go to deny their OWN genetic defects and their OWN faulty breeding habits.
Palarran
02-12-2009, 04:56 PM
Since I don't think this has been posted here yet:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5070670.stm
The Independent newspaper reports that the General Medical Council will accuse Mr Andrew Wakefield of carrying out "inadequately founded" research.
Vaccination rates fell sharply after Dr Wakefield questioned the safety of MMR, raising fears of a measles epidemic.
His initial Lancet paper has since been disowned by the journal.
The editor admitted he would not have published the 1998 paper if he had known about what he called a "fatal conflict of interest".
Mr Wakefield received funding to see if there was any evidence to support possible legal action by a group of parents who claimed their children were damaged by the vaccine. Some children were involved in both studies.
In addition ten doctors who co-authored the paper issued a statement in 2004 arguing there was insufficient evidence to draw the conclusion that the MMR vaccine was not safe.
More details here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5683671.ece
Confidential medical documents and interviews with witnesses have established that Andrew Wakefield manipulated patients’ data, which triggered fears that the MMR triple vaccine to protect against measles, mumps and rubella was linked to the condition.
The research was published in February 1998 in an article in The Lancet medical journal. It claimed that the families of eight out of 12 children attending a routine clinic at the hospital had blamed MMR for their autism, and said that problems came on within days of the jab. The team also claimed to have discovered a new inflammatory bowel disease underlying the children’s conditions.
However, our investigation, confirmed by evidence presented to the General Medical Council (GMC), reveals that: In most of the 12 cases, the children’s ailments as described in The Lancet were different from their hospital and GP records. Although the research paper claimed that problems came on within days of the jab, in only one case did medical records suggest this was true, and in many of the cases medical concerns had been raised before the children were vaccinated. Hospital pathologists, looking for inflammatory bowel disease, reported in the majority of cases that the gut was normal. This was then reviewed and the Lancet paper showed them as abnormal.
Despite involving just a dozen children, the 1998 paper’s impact was extraordinary. After its publication, rates of inoculation fell from 92% to below 80%. Populations acquire “herd immunity” from measles when more than 95% of people have been vaccinated.
Tudamorf
02-12-2009, 05:26 PM
Mr Wakefield received funding to see if there was any evidence to support possible legal action by a group of parents who claimed their children were damaged by the vaccine. Obviously there are parasites wanting to cash in on this, too, and that's a major factor that leads to these claims.
But there are fools who aren't just looking to make a quick buck and actually believe it, such as Christian zealots (Swiftfox, etc.).
Swiftfox
03-05-2009, 09:19 AM
Baxter: Product contained live bird flu virus (http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html)
"The company that released contaminated flu virus material from a plant in Austria confirmed Friday that the experimental product contained live H5N1 avian flu viruses.
The contamination incident, which is being investigated by the four European countries, came to light when the subcontractor in the Czech Republic inoculated ferrets with the product and they died
People familiar with biosecurity rules are dismayed by evidence that human H3N2 and avian H5N1 viruses somehow co-mingled in the Orth-Donau facility. That is a dangerous practice that should not be allowed to happen, a number of experts insisted.
Accidental release of a mixture of live H5N1 and H3N2 viruses could have resulted in dire consequences.
But there are fools who aren't just looking to make a quick buck and actually believe it, such as Christian zealots (Swiftfox, etc.).
I am far from a Christian Zealot. I do not have blind faith in the Governments and Corporations that you do. What sort of Zealot term should we apply to you? Maybe you get paid to post your comments via some of the billions spent by the American government to litter blogs with Pro-government propaganda. Or you could be just one of the fools who actually believe everything "they" tell you.
edit - Added this tidbit
Czech newspapers are questioning if the shocking discovery of vaccines contaminated with the deadly avian flu virus which were distributed to 18 countries by the American company Baxter were part of a conspiracy to provoke a pandemic.
The claim holds weight because, according to the very laboratory protocols that are routine for vaccine makers, mixing a live virus biological weapon with vaccine material by accident is virtually impossible.
“The company that released contaminated flu virus material from a plant in Austria confirmed Friday that the experimental product contained live H5N1 avian flu viruses,” reports the Canadian Press.
Baxter flu vaccines contaminated with H5N1 - otherwise known as the human form of avian flu, one of the most deadly biological weapons on earth with a 60% kill rate - were received by labs in the Czech Republic, Germany, and Slovenia.
Initially, Baxter attempted to stonewall questions by invoking “trade secrets” and refused to reveal how the vaccines were contaminated with H5N1. After increased pressure they then claimed that pure H5N1 batches were sent by accident. This was seemingly an attempt to quickly change the story and hide the fact that the accidental contamination of a vaccine with a deadly biological agent like avian flu is virtually impossible and the only way it could have happened was by wilful gross criminal negligence.
According to a compiled translation from Czech newspaper stories, the media over there is asking tough questions about whether the contamination was part of a deliberate attempt to start a pandemic.
Tudamorf
03-05-2009, 12:51 PM
What sort of Zealot term should we apply to you?Rationality zealot?
Swiftfox
03-05-2009, 09:21 PM
Homeless people die after bird flu vaccine trial in Poland (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/2235676/Homeless-people-die-after-bird-flu-vaccine-trial-in-Poland.html)
Three Polish doctors and six nurses are facing criminal prosecution after a number of homeless people died following medical trials for a vaccine to the H5N1 bird-flu virus.
The medical staff, from the northern town of Grudziadz, are being investigated over medical trials on as many as 350 homeless and poor people last year, which prosecutors say involved an untried vaccine to the highly-contagious virus.
Authorities claim that the alleged victims received £1-2 to be tested with what they thought was a conventional flu vaccine but, according to investigators, was actually an anti bird-flu drug.
Tudamorf
03-05-2009, 10:05 PM
So because a few people on the other side of the world are accused of committing a crime, vaccines are inherently bad?
Vaccines are the most important health measure we have today. They prevent enormous harm at minimal cost.
Anyone refusing to take them should be deported to their own little island, where they can die of those diseases, secure in the knowledge that they die "free". They can learn the hard way that freedom is slavery.
And anyone who thinks vaccines cause autism is either an idiot or in serious denial, or both. Or a lawyer looking to make a quick buck off of said fools.
Swiftfox
03-06-2009, 09:02 AM
It's not the first time.
Here's Bayer knowingly selling Aids Contaminated product in 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-52mHIjhs
What they have done is Mix Flu viruses Live with Avian flu Virus That could create the dreaded flu virus they have been beating their drums about. It's not just about a few people, its that they could have created or caused the very avian flu pandemic they have been preparing for with 40-60% kill rate. Nothing like creating a market for your products.
Tudamorf
03-06-2009, 12:52 PM
Your point?
We know how to punish criminals who intentionally do bad things.
Vaccines would have to be killing tens of millions of people (confirmed, not conspiracy theory nonsense) before the cost/benefit analysis would begin to weigh against them.
Swiftfox
03-06-2009, 02:43 PM
How does punishing these people help after setting loose a pandemic that kills millions help?
Where else were these sent?
Tudamorf
03-06-2009, 03:42 PM
How does punishing these people help after setting loose a pandemic that kills millions help?How does punishing firearm offenders help after they've killed their victim?
Ban all guns!
How does punishing careless drivers help after they've killed their victims?
Ban all cars!
How does punishing Internet scammers/defrauders help after they've soaked their victims?
Ban the Internet!
Note that in each category above, there is extensive harm happening to real people every day, whereas vaccine-induced pandemics are just a figment of your imagination.
Swiftfox
03-06-2009, 11:15 PM
Fact is it is virtually impossible for the avian flu virus to have been accidentally mixed in with the influenza vaccine.
You truly are a spin doctor.
Enjoy your mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, phenol and whatever else they have "accidentally" put into your body via vaccine. When you have Alzheimer's try and remember you were told. You should survive the engineered plague long enough to get Alzheimer's since you think they are yummy.
Hugh Fudenberg, MD, an immunogeneticist and biologist with nearly 850 papers published in peer review journals, has reported that if an individual had five consecutive flu shots between 1970 and 1980 (the years studied), his/her chances of getting Alzheimer's Disease is ten times higher than if they had zero, one, or two shots
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edikv0zbAlU
" Merk drug company vaccines admits injecting cancer viruses into their vaccines and we have the proof on video for you to watch.
This censored interview conducted by medical historian Edward Shorter for WGBH public television (Boston) and Blackwell Science was cut from The Health Century due to its liability–the admission that Merck drug company vaccines have traditionally been injecting cancer viruses (SV40 and others) in people worldwide.
This segment of In Lies We Trust: The CIA, Hollywood & Terrorism, produced and freely contributed by consumer protector and public health expert, Dr. Leonard Horowitz, features the world’s leading vaccine expert, Dr. Maurice Hilleman, who explains why Merck’s vaccines have spread AIDS, leukaemia, and other horrific plagues worldwide."
Dr. Hilleman, who developed the Mumps, Rubella and Measles vaccines, said: “Vaccines are the bargain basement technology of the 20th century.”
Dr. Hilleman also acknowledged that he discovered that the Sabine polio vaccine (manufactured by Merck) was infected with the SV-40 cancer virus. In the process of developing vaccines Merck scientists are shown to blithely disregarded public safety as they conducted massive tests exposing millions of unsuspecting people to wild viruses. Dr. Hilleman acknowledged that the cancer infected polio vaccine had been tested in massive field trials in Russia, then in the U.S.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/
New, more serious forms of the diseases (e.g. atypical measles) are also now appearing, only in the vaccinated.
The frequency of vaccine damage may be 100 or more times higher than reported
The actual frequency of resultant health problems has been admitted by authorities to be possibly up to 100 times, or more, greater than that reported (see articles within), that difference being due to the fact that doctors are not given any real incentive to report adverse effects. They are also being told that they must never let their patients (or parents) think that the risks could outweigh the benefits, so it is normal policy to deny a link no matter how apparent it is to the patient (or parent)
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