Been nice posting here the last few years, but after last weekend I think I am finished.

If anyone wants to contact me they can do so via EQlive or http://crucible.samanna.net/index.php

thanks!

-Fenier

I couldn't agree more that locking off the site in order to get "donations" is not the way to go, I give at minimum $25 a year to more than 5 different sites, this isn't one of them... simply because the "donations" are so heavily demanded. While I realize what I do give isn't a ton, every little bit helps.

A better way to get your community to "support" your site would be to offer incentives for donating. A seprate forum section for supporting people, benefits of some sort, anything would be preferred to what took place this weekend.

-Sabby

buh bye.
I'll be taking my few usefull posts with me... you can have the rest!

As in defense.

People are not donating like they used to. It sucks not having the forums up and it was a taste of what could be if the community doesn't stick together. Overall though that was my fault because the time clock was ticking away. We are getting close to the goal we set. After last year paying out of pocket and several times forgoing my own well being I thought I give it another shot this year and see how the community responds.

As truth - I tried to get ahold of the gurus over the week to discuss how I could redirect the site after donation and well they have real lives also and working, kids, wifes etc.. so I had to do something.

I got only one email - and responded to it. And several emails to support. I know it was drastic but heck that exactly what it will be like w/o the Grove.

So sharpen your scimatars if you wish but I really needed to show the community how hard it is now to keep these types of sites going.. we grew.. maybe now we will shrink and try to get on a server that is less expensive but again that takes time and people to get involved.. its not a simple process and we all volunteer to keep this site going.

Nothing more and nothing less.. if you checked there is no advertisements or money makers on this site.

Nor it should - its always been community Driven and the community called for faster and faster servers as we grew.. so now that a downfall is in place - we are looking but it takes time.

Sobe

You own the site, you took it away. That is understood.

If you want people to donate, maybe a break down in chart form of how these 4 forums generate that much cost would make people more apt to give you funds.

Right now you say $2,000 (ish) a year for them? Don't you guys host other sites as well, do you deduct those sites from the cost of this one? Or is that totally seperate? Does it cost 2 grand a year for the server you host all of the sites on? It isn't clear at all...

People are not donating like they used to.
If the above statement is true, then one would logically look to cutting costs and perhaps using a less expensive host / server.

I know that dedicated servers can run from $100-$300 (even considerably more) per month, but it doesn't seem like the forums would require a top end server. (Is it the cpu usage? The bandwith?)

-Sabby

$160 + $30 for each following year (if wanting updates) just for the forum software isn't really helping. Using a free forum software like SMF or phpBB would save some money on that account, and although they lack some of the fancy pansy features that vBulletin boasts, it does what it's meant to do, and is free to boot.

Not sure if that's a sum that have to be paid per forum or just a one-time payment and then the software can be used on as many forums as you like? But if it's the price for each forum it quickly runs up.

Also, at least in my case, holding the site "hostage" and demanding donations to re-open doesn't exactly inspire me to donate anything, on the contrary it just alienates me and makes me shout vile curses and seek other, and possible greener, pastures.

The way this should have been done, in my opinion, would have been to create a big announcement post that you couldn't possible avoid seeing on every forum, urging people to donate, rather than forcing.

As it stands now I actually think that creating a bigger community with the shamans and paladins is the right step. It will let those classes knit a closer bond. In the past I've always felt there have been a bit of rivalry between druids and shamans, so once gain I think combining communities is a good thing.

Lastly I just want to say that TDG have been a great source of information, even though I haven't really used it a lot. Thanks for the time here :)

As in defense.

People are not donating like they used to. It sucks not having the forums up and it was a taste of what could be if the community doesn't stick together. Overall though that was my fault because the time clock was ticking away. We are getting close to the goal we set. After last year paying out of pocket and several times forgoing my own well being I thought I give it another shot this year and see how the community responds.

As truth - I tried to get ahold of the gurus over the week to discuss how I could redirect the site after donation and well they have real lives also and working, kids, wifes etc.. so I had to do something.

I got only one email - and responded to it. And several emails to support. I know it was drastic but heck that exactly what it will be like w/o the Grove.

So sharpen your scimatars if you wish but I really needed to show the community how hard it is now to keep these types of sites going.. we grew.. maybe now we will shrink and try to get on a server that is less expensive but again that takes time and people to get involved.. its not a simple process and we all volunteer to keep this site going.

Nothing more and nothing less.. if you checked there is no advertisements or money makers on this site.

Nor it should - its always been community Driven and the community called for faster and faster servers as we grew.. so now that a downfall is in place - we are looking but it takes time.

Sobe


Put up ads.

In case you're living in a cave, times are tough right now. Perhaps that's why donations are on the slide? Ads don't bother me one bit and I expect them on some sites. It sounds more like you have a personal vendetta against ads when 90% of the public probably doesn't care either way. Doing what was done last weekend does nothing but punish everyone, those that donate yearly and those that can't afford anything at all.

I donate yearly, so I simply donated this past weekend the amount I normally would, since I believe this to be a great resource for new and seasoned Druids.

Why not do what Alla's does? Put ads up, but allow those that have donated an ad free experience?

Tried Ads - they don't generate a lot - Priest Haven made a 1.66 over the last 5 months. Reading a bit more into the post about ad's - I have to ask Rahj or Guice how that works; "basically" if we have those types of controls to remove ads to those who "donate". IE: Software question.

Have to remember - high point in TDG was overloading CPU/bandwidth meters and what ever else they could throw at us and getting us kicked off of serveral server including ones that stated " oh we won't ever kick you off if you pay your bill " and twice getting screwed and not getting our money back.

Now that fan sites have become less popular - and many are combining games into one forum.. (again that takes time and basically its hard to go back and bring all these post under one roof and find a server that will support us even on those days when games are down and the forums are hopping.. well that is what we are looking at.

So over the next couple of months we are looking for more and more donations so I can basically move everything over under one roof and a cheaper server we can stay open here w/o me having to forgo paying for my health insurance.. that is what we are going to be doing.

I do like this type of feedback it does show that you the community do care. And we will proceed - if I can get some of the gurus that help put this Monster into existance back down to a tamed lion and back into a pen that will allow it to roam freely but not bite the hand that feeds it; just I know that it will take some time.. and for those who are donating and continuing to donate that is where we are headed.

Answer the other question: Yes we had TDG Hosting Package going on.. that is on a seperate server "Mr. IRS" decided to stomp that out.. thanks "the man".

Also to add .. We tried at one point to create a section that only those who donated "could use" I will tell you this.. to my surprise I got a LOT of negative feedback on that issue. We called it the Ring.. IE: Druid Ring.. and its still up just sorta hidden and was a management nightmare to control at one point.. FYI. Who knows maybe we went about it the wrong way and should of advertised that it was a special condition if you donated. We live and learn and we grow.. and on that topic.. as most of the old timers know.. all of us that brought the Druids Grove into existance.. are not professionals (well except for Guice) when it deals with "programming" and "putting this monster together" we all come from different backgrounds that have nothing to do with Creating a Public forum. We are were all pretty novice when it came to this experience almost 9 years ago.

And as you can see... I have no problem with taking feedback w/o being negative about it.

As for those that donated over the week.. during my novice experience of redirecting.. please send me an email w/your paypal email so I can update your tags. I have several to do.

One more thing to add.. " keep reading more and if I missed a point someone made feel free to bring it back up " as for cheaper software.. not worried about that we own those now - it just it cost 30 a year to keep it going.. if we decide to drop down to one forum that cost will drop so thats not a worry right now.


Sobe

I've been gone for a longtime. It mades me sad to see what has become of the Grove. No, I take that back. It f-ing pisses me off.

It pains me to see people who share their knowledge with the rest of the community leave. It pains me to see what caused it, a huge mistake.

The Druids Grove turned into a money beast with the server we picked 2 years ago because we had the traffic for it. Today, we are nothing more then a class site trying to stay afloat. The boat will just have to get smaller. Something we as Admins should've done a longtime ago.

I've read things about me since all this happened. So called dodging questions. I have never dodged any question. Always posted what I knew, and that was it. If it wasn't what you wanted to hear that's not my problem.

To everyone who is leaving the Grove. The Grove will miss you.

Rahjeir,
Retired TDG Network Admin

i really think a mass exodus at this time is not required.
after years of helpful info, i don't think a single weekend merits this kind of reaction.

no negative meant towards the shaman site but... i LIKE having a druid site of our own. being on a shaman board gives me nightmares of peeps like hecude poking their nose into whatever thread they want and derailing. that kinda crap happens enough on the SOE forums.

I don't like ads. However, I understand that web sites have to be paid for somehow.

Therefore, I don't have a problem with putting ads on the site. People who donate, should get an ad free version.

Of course, putting ads in might not raise any money. That would be a problem. So while you say, "Tried Ads - they don't generate a lot", that doesn't sound like much of an answer to me. You tried ads when? What happened?

If ads covered 10% of the cost of running the site, then that is 10% less than you need to get.

Basically, I don't see real communication with hard facts and figures coming from you.

You said, "Priest Haven made a 1.66 over the last 5 months." What does that mean? What is "Priest Haven" and how do they relate to The Druids Grove? What is 1.66? Is that US$1.66 in advertising income for 5 months or what?

If you want people to donate, you have to do better than that. Be honest, give a full list of EXACTLY what expenses you have and income the site generates.

For several days The Druids Grove was down with a page that said you needed donations and that the site would be back up when you got enough. Then for several days coming here would get you a blank page. I wondered if the site was gone forever.

Frankly, the kind of communication you are giving us reminds me too much of SOE. I would think having dealt with them, you would be more understanding of what they do wrong and try to avoid that kind of thing.

Finally, let me just say that for all my complaints, that I am grateful for your hard work here. I've never donated and I'm sorry to say that my finances don't allow me to. If TDG goes down I will miss it.

I hope things work out. I hope your hard work pays off and TDG continues to serve Druids as THE druid EQ site.

Sobe,

If you need any help with anything let me know. I have limited time, like everyone these days (I have had 2 kids since I created Ligge 9 years ago lol) and will soon be back in the job market, but I would be more than willing to assist where I can again with what time I do have available.

Of course, when I find a new job my day time assistance may be limited to lunch with the laoptop, but who knows... gimme my ring back! JK!

:devil:

Ligge
PM me here or ligge@kayabound.com works still too, all my eqguide.com addresses are dead since I took the site down.