...something happens to lower the bar.

Ahmadinejad's Imam: Islam Allows Raping, Torturing Prisoners (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133214)

by Nissan Ratzlav-Katz

(IsraelNN.com) A highly influential Shi'a religious leader, with whom Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad regularly consults, apparently told followers last month that coercion by means of rape, torture and drugs is acceptable against all opponents of the Islamic regime.
The gathered crowd heard from Ayatollah Mohammad Taqi Mesbah-Yazdi and Ahmadinejad.

In the wake of a series of publications worldwide regarding the rape and torture of dissident prisoners in Iran's jails, supporters of Ahmadinejad gathered with him in Jamkaran, a popular pilgrimage site for Shi'ite Muslims on the outskirts of Qom, on August 11, 2009. According to Iranian pro-democracy sources, the gathered crowd heard from Ayatollah Mohammad Taqi Mesbah-Yazdi and Ahmadinejad himself regarding the issue.

According to the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (ITIC), an independent Israeli intelligence analysis organization, Mesbah-Yazdi is considered Ahmadinejad's personal spiritual guide. A radical totalitarian even in Iranian terms, he holds messianic views, supports increasing Islamization, calls for violent suppression of domestic political opponents, and, according to the ITIC, "declared that obeying a president supported by the Supreme Leader was tantamount to obeying God."

At the Jamkaran gathering, Mesbah-Yazdi and Ahmadinejad answered questions about the rape and torture charges. The following text is from a transcript alleged by Iranian dissidents to be a series of questions and answers exchanged between the ayatollah and some of his supporters.

[More... (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133214)]

...something happens to lower the bar.


Do not be so quick to blame religion for everything.

As somebody once told: Religion magnifies. It makes people who are good far better, but it makes people who are bad so much worse.

Dehumanising the opposition is used by dictators and tyrants of all times, be they religious or not. (The real cause is having absolute certainty that you are right and they are wrong. While religion is the easiest source of that certainty it is by far the only one).


Eri

Do not be so quick to blame religion for everything.
Admittedly, I was half trolling but I'll defend my assertion anyway. Religion, while certainly not to blame for everything, doesn't get blamed nearly often enough.

As somebody once told: Religion magnifies. It makes people who are good far better, but it makes people who are bad so much worse.
Religion is used as a tool to control and manipulate people in ways that bypass healthy skepticism. Sure, you may be able to convince people to do abhorrent or even unspeakably horrible things without it, but if you do it under the guise of religion, it makes it a lot easier. It also makes dealing with dissent easier.

Dehumanising the opposition is used by dictators and tyrants of all times, be they religious or not.
And the in-group/out-group mentality of religion greatly facilitates that dehumanization.

(The real cause is having absolute certainty that you are right and they are wrong. While religion is the easiest source of that certainty it is by far the only one).
Aye, and history has shown that there are no shortage of people who were happy to leverage it to do abominable things.

Once you can get people to suspend their skepticism you got a very good hold on them and can get them to do almost anything.

. . . coercion by means of rape . . .I'm confused now. I thought Iran had no gays.

As for the torture, drugs, etc., Islam will have to work long and hard to even approach the evil brutality of Christianity.

Ehh, Tuda, check out Harold and Kumar Escape for Guant. Bay, when the cockmeat sandwich comes around, you will know everything grasshopper. OR if you have seen it, that is how it works. How it also works is haven't you seen the videos on the web where they take a detainee, record it, put in on youtube and/or send it to his wife/ mother/ sons/ daughter/ etc of them sticking a broomstick in his anus.

Ehh, Tuda, check out Harold and Kumar Escape for Guant.

YouTube: Cockmeat Sandwich (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hne5a_jkdyw)

Exactly lol, although for more fun, watch the entire scene for deep metaphorical references to draw in the full symbolism of the satyrical take, and apply. Ugg, I will never be taken seriously again for using Harold and Kumar for philosophical discussion........

Ugg, I will never be taken seriously again for using Harold and Kumar for philosophical discussion........
Are you kidding? I won't take anyone seriously until they've used Harold and Kumar in a philosophical discussion.

I'm confused now. I thought Iran had no gays.

As for the torture, drugs, etc., Islam will have to work long and hard to even approach the evil brutality of Christianity.
It's not homosexual if you do it for Allah.

omg... I have to see that movie.

Do not be so quick to blame religion for everything.
I don't blame religion for everything. But you can't argue with God (or rather, those who claim to be speaking for God).

When you invoke God, you remove logic and reason from the issue. It is mandatory. You can't have faith and reason in the same room because the definition of faith is believing without proof.

It is notable that the dictatorships that don't use religion tend to outlaw or restrict religion, because they don't want the competition.

All in all, I always remember the following saying:

If God is for us, who can be against us? - Romans 8:28-31.

It can mean many things, but it is often used to mean that anyone against them is against God. You aren't holding a different opinion on an issue, you are defying God.

I don't blame religion for everything. But you can't argue with God (or rather, those who claim to be speaking for God).

When you invoke God, you remove logic and reason from the issue. It is mandatory. You can't have faith and reason in the same room because the definition of faith is believing without proof.



Believe me that I at least learned from the examples of 2000 years of bitter, brutal and very bloody history of what happens when you mix the absolute certainty of religion with politics. But the catalist is politics. Religion is just a tool that those in power who are ruthless enough wield. That is what I meant with 'do not blame religion for everything'.

And yes, the moment you introduce religion into any conflict the possibility of compromise goes out of the window at the same moment. That is why religious wars are so bloody and unforgiving. You can see that in the battle around abortion in the usa.


Eri