View Full Forums : Let's Hope This Guy Doesn't Cough
11-11-2009, 04:51 PM
http://www.nj.com/news/local/index.ssf/2009/11/post_36.htmlJudge says handicapped Manville man can get gun permit
There is “no reason” James Cap, a quadriplegic who is physically unable to hold a gun or pull a trigger, should be denied a firearms ID card — a requirement for the purchase of any gun in New Jersey, a judge in Somerville said today.
“I hope you enjoy the use of your firearm,” Superior Court Judge John Pursel said before signing an order that will allow Cap to get a permit as long as any guns he buys are stored in a safe and only qualified people assist him with the weapons.
When he buys a gun, Cap will be able to shoot with the help of a friend, who can put his firearm in a special wheelchair mount. A mechanical device will allow him to aim and fire with breaths through a tube.
“You aim it right, left or down and take the shot,” explained Cap, saying it is a simple and safe device.
It’s being hailed a victory for gun rights by the National Rifle Association, which had condemned Peltack’s initial denial.
“I think it’s a victory for common sense, at the very least,” said Darren LaSorte, the manager of hunting policy for the NRA’s lobbying arm, who added he’s still offended that Cap was denied his right to a gun at all.So now we give quadriplegics permits to operate guns with a breathing tube. Oh, we also give blind men (http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/article_31709577-4079-5d4c-8892-eab4cdeb799a.html) gun permits too!
For you foreigners, yes, you read that right, we really are that crazy in America.
“I think it’s a victory for common sense, at the very least,”
Didnt common sense lose in this case?
11-12-2009, 11:11 AM
Let's see about this, I do believe the second amendment covers this as well as the other restrictions such as felonies and so on in other laws and code. While they did take other precautions, he is entitled to it by law. There also has been some advances in prosthetics as well that could allow him to physically grip a firearm that way should he go that route. I remember a wheelchair accessable hunting range here in Tenn as well, I just do not remember where it is.
Onto blind people, again same issues as above. Probably some of the same restrictions as well. Many blind people can determine shapes and would like some target practice. Maybe others like to collect firearms, who knows what they like to do, but, to exclude others for the sake of a physical disability.....
11-12-2009, 12:47 PM
I do believe the second amendment covers thisIt doesn't. The most obvious reason being that it doesn't apply to the states.While they did take other precautions, he is entitled to it by law.No, he isn't.Onto blind people, again same issues as above.Would you allow quadriplegics to drive a car using a breathing tube?
Would you allow blind man to drive a car because he can determine shapes and would like some driving practice?
11-12-2009, 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by palamin
I do believe the second amendment covers this
It doesn't. The most obvious reason being that it doesn't apply to the states."
Yes, the second amendment does cover that. Also, the local ordinances as well as the state laws do cover it with their restrictions. So, he found a workaround that can be safe and allow him to do things he used to do before he broke his neck and sucessfully got his due process with his sucessful litigation with restrictions for safety measures. Good for him.
quote"Would you allow quadriplegics to drive a car using a breathing tube"
Does it have to be a breathing tube? many quads can use their body to apply pressure to things. Were there apparatus capable of the motions, with some extra training sure.
quote"Would you allow blind man to drive a car because he can determine shapes and would like some driving practice?"
That would depend also. Believe it or not it is possible to be legally blind and be driving on the roadways. The depends would fall under can the potential driver have depth perception? Can they follow the cues in traffic such as signal lights, brake lights, stop signs, turns in the roadways, from distances of at least 400 meters, etc? Can they discern shapes at night as well as visible signals? Would there be a high safety risk to other people? If they can not, then no. You can be legally blind and have full perception, but, you might not be able to read full scripts such as books. Or perhaps with the aid of occular devices such as glasses? There are different levels of blindness.
11-12-2009, 04:39 PM
I do believe the second amendment covers thisIt doesn't.
Unless they say so explicitly (e.g., the Fourteenth Amendment), the amendments to the U.S. Constitution do not apply to the states.
Only under the doctrine of incorporation -- which is basically a judge-created loophole where they arbitrarily apply certain provisions to the states because they think it's a good idea -- can it apply.
And the Supreme Court has never done so. The only court I know of that did was the Ninth Circuit, briefly before vacating its own decision (that was this year). So as the law stands now, the Second Amendment doesn't apply to state action.That would depend also. Believe it or not it is possible to be legally blind and be driving on the roadways.I mean blind. As in, you can't see a damn thing.
Would you give that person a driver's license?Would there be a high safety risk to other people?A blind man, with a gun? What do you think?
11-16-2009, 06:24 PM
Have to agree with the judges ruling only 'cause I don't know all the facts about the case. If their are tools that allow this individual the ability to fire a weapon and it can be done in a safe manner on a gun range, then he has all the right in the world to own a weapon.
11-16-2009, 08:27 PM
If their are tools that allow this individual the ability to fire a weapon and it can be done in a safe manner on a gun range, then he has all the right in the world to own a weapon.I saw no "only in a gun range" restriction. Only that he needs a buddy to hook it up for him (which is a physical necessity).
Guns, like cars, are very unsafe devices. Individuals with handicaps that limit their operation of the device should not be allowed to use them at all.
You can't seriously expect me to believe that a quadriplegic can control a firearm as well as a normal person can. (And I hardly trust normal people to operate them safely.)
vBulletin v3.0.0, Copyright ©2000-2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.