Tee hee! I would definitely sign this petition!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120969156&ft=1&f=1001

Since California has decided to protect traditional marriage, I think it would be hypocritical of us not to sacrifice some of our own rights to protect traditional marriage even more.

- John Marcotte, organizer of the 2010 California Marriage Protection Act

Tee hee! I would definitely sign this petition!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120969156&ft=1&f=1001

Since California has decided to protect traditional marriage, I think it would be hypocritical of us not to sacrifice some of our own rights to protect traditional marriage even more.

- John Marcotte, organizer of the 2010 California Marriage Protection Act

Yeah I read about this, I sure hope it makes it onto the ballot, I wanna see all the hypocrytical voters in that state shine like never before.

Yeah I read about this, I sure hope it makes it onto the ballot, I wanna see all the hypocrytical voters in that state shine like never before.

But we all know that it does not even need to go on the ballot to know what would happen to it. People (not just socially conservatives) are very good at ignoring their own hypocracies.
Now if on the other hand you could word the proposal so that it can easily be interpreted that other people can not get a divorce, then I suspect support for it would be overwhelming. We are after all very good at wanting to deny other people the rights we claim for ourselves.


Eri

hehe that is funny. Plus it would solve the child support issue in california, unless there are concessions for filing as seperated. But, you can still file for divorce in another state..... side note, I like the message it sends, even if it doesn't have a shot to make it in.

What I'm hoping is that the idiot voters will think it's another anti-gay rights bill and they'll mindlessly approve it. Then OOOPS! We can't get divorced?!? WTF?

Gay rights supporters pull off stupid stunts like this, and then wonder why real people won't take them seriously. :rolleyes:

Gay rights supporters pull off stupid stunts like this, and then wonder why real people won't take them seriously. :rolleyes:
I think the gay pride parades took care of that long ago. Do a GIS on "gay pride parade" and you'll get a good idea of what "real people" think gays are like. It's as misguided as seeing Mardi Gras or Spring Break and coming to the conclusion that all straight people are promiscuous drunks. That said, straight people aren't trying to gain acceptance for their lifestyle.

Yeah, stay away from Market Street on Gay Pride Day, it's a mess.

Still, if you want all those people who aren't gay to vote with you on the grounds of fairness and equality, you should at least put your game face on when the issue comes up.

If you make a big joke out of it, the voters are never going to take you seriously.

I think the measure does a marvelous job at pointing out the hypocrisy and the unfairness of voting away someone elses rights.

I absolutely think this has a chance of making people see what they've been blind to.

I absolutely think this has a chance of making people see what they've been blind to.
Especially if it passes. :)

I think the measure does a marvelous job at pointing out the hypocrisy and the unfairness of voting away someone elses rights.Because you have already made up your mind.

The people who are actually going to decide this issue are the ones who haven't, and all you're doing is alienating them.

Because you have already made up your mind.

The people who are actually going to decide this issue are the ones who haven't, and all you're doing is alienating them.

Tuda, NOTHING is going to convince the people who are currently voting against gay rights.

The good news is that they are also the people who voted for McCain in the last election and in another decade or two they are a very tiny minority (and probably too old and decrepit to vote anyway, especially if they get their wish with opting out of a public healthcare system ;))

Gay pride parades are not about winning votes, and the very idea that you should appear more 'mainstream' in them is the exact opposite of what they are trying to achieve: A big shout of 'we exist too!' There is a reason the word pride shows up in the name of the parade ...

The gay marriage (and gay rights in general) hatred is something that only time can cure out of a culture. An interesting observation is that during the Vietnam war homosexual men could not be drafted into the military. All it would take for anybody was to appear at that drafting meeting in 'gay' clothes, walk with a bit of swing in their hips and perhaps wink at the committee and they would be out of the door again. Yet at that time the stigma against homosexuality was still so strong that almost nobody even thought of using that tactic to get out of the army. They would flee to Canada or risk being locked up in prison rather than even have the hint actually being homosexual (instead of merely pretending it) clouding them.
Yet 30 years later homosexuals are not quite accepted, but certainly no longer ostracised (and worse), and where once the suggestion that you might be homosexual was a fate worse than death now most people do not blink twice and the younger generation sees nothing wrong with gay marriage and in fact gays in general.

That does not mean it is not fun to rub the face of hypocrites into their hypocracy ;)


Eri

Tuda, NOTHING is going to convince the people who are currently voting against gay rights.I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about everyone else: the straight, non-Christian zealots who have nothing invested in the issue. If you want to convince those people to give a small minority rights, you have to at least show you're serious about it.The good news is that they are also the people who voted for McCain in the last election and in another decade or two they are a very tiny minority (and probably too old and decrepit to vote anyway, especially if they get their wish with opting out of a public healthcare system ;))The real irony is that here in California, it was Obama voters who passed Proposition 8, the gay marriage ban, in 2008.

Specifically, black Obama voters, who are rabidly anti-gay (over 70% voted for the gay marriage ban, as opposed to 50% or less for other groups). They showed up in droves to vote for Obama, in enough numbers to tip the scales.where once the suggestion that you might be homosexual was a fate worse than death now most people do not blink twice and the younger generation sees nothing wrong with gay marriage and in fact gays in general.Oh yeah. Gay marriage is a certainty if you look at current attitudes of young people. But it will take a few decades until all those people make up the voters and the politicians.

quote" homosexuality was still so strong that almost nobody even thought of using that tactic to get out of the army"

sure they did, quite a few discharges and some time in the brig for violating the UCMJ on the sodomy laws. During the Vietnam era they institutated the sexual orientation policy. You could have the orientation of being gay, so, long as you didn't get caught sucking peen you were ok. But, then again some straight guys got busted for that as well.

Gay pride parades are not about winning votes, and the very idea that you should appear more 'mainstream' in them is the exact opposite of what they are trying to achieve: A big shout of 'we exist too!' There is a reason the word pride shows up in the name of the parade ...

Sure, but is it nessesary (http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4GGLL_enUS355US355&q=gay%20pride%20parade&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi)to prance around half naked, adorned in only in feathers, and engage in faux sex to prove you exist? "Real people" see that and make the assumption that that's what being gay is all about. Given that most of the resistance to gay issues stem from fear, is it really wise to carry on in a way that bolsters that fear? Especially when the behavior isn't even representative of your lifestyle? From a PR perspective, anyway, it's certainly the wrong way to go.

Is it? I mean, Gay Pride parades are all over the place these days and gay rights seems to be coming along.

Is it? I mean, Gay Pride parades are all over the place these days and gay rights seems to be coming along.
It would be hard to prove one way or the other but common sense tells me that there'd be less resistance to gay marriage if the parades dialed it back a notch on some of the crazier stuff. One of the things that "real people" need to understand is that gays love each other in the same emotional, caring way that straights do. The parades give the impression that being gay is all about unrestrained lust and kinky sex. Admittedly, the parades are fun and quite a spectacle but they're not the image you want in someones mind when you're trying to convince them that you want to get married for all the same reasons they do.

Sure, but is it nessesary (http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4GGLL_enUS355US355&q=gay%20pride%20parade&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi)to prance around half naked, adorned in only in feathers, and engage in faux sex to prove you exist? "Real people" see that and make the assumption that that's what being gay is all about. Given that most of the resistance to gay issues stem from fear, is it really wise to carry on in a way that bolsters that fear? Especially when the behavior isn't even representative of your lifestyle? From a PR perspective, anyway, it's certainly the wrong way to go.

Is it necessary for women do walk around in g-strings and pasties during the rio carnival parade? Not really, but they do so anyway. With pride parades it is much the same way. It is not a political protest so much as a festival and a big street party.
And I think that part of the reason why many gays and lesbians are so excessive in their exhibitions is because of the outrage and disapproval aimed in their general direction. Kind of an 'If you think I am outrageous then I will show you outrageous' attitude that many suppresed minorities adopt. Exaggerating the negative stereotypes to strengthen the group feeling against oppression. Keep in mind that these parades started in a time when it was still perfectly normal police procedure to bust through the door of a suspected gay bar, beat up a couple of people and arrest them, and when violence against gays was tacitly approved (and if the victim tried to press charges he could end up arrested on a wide choice of obscenity laws).


Eri

Is it necessary for women do walk around in g-strings and pasties during the rio carnival parade? Not really, but they do so anyway.
Women don't need votes to get women's marriage . That said, do you think the women's rights movement would be where it is now if women had attended their rallies while dressed up as sexual caricatures?

With pride parades it is much the same way. It is not a political protest so much as a festival and a big street party.
Sure, but is the damage they do to their cause worth the fun of the parade? Also, is promiscuous sex really what makes gays most proud about being gay? 'Cause that's kinda the message the parades give.

Kind of an 'If you think I am outrageous then I will show you outrageous' attitude that many suppresed minorities adopt. Exaggerating the negative stereotypes to strengthen the group feeling against oppression.
Becoming what your opposition most fears is a great way to send a big-ol' fvck you to them but is it productive? Martin Luther King was a far more productive champion of civil rights for blacks than Malcolm X was. This was because he knew that fear was the biggest roadblock to acceptance and did what he could to show that blacks shouldn't be feared. Malcolm X went with the outrageous approach.

I think that if you're dependent on people who aren't part of your identity group in order to gain your civil rights, you'd do better to go out of your way to show how much you have in common with them rather than highlight the differences. I'm not for a minute suggesting that this is fair, just pragmatic.