http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100808/ap_on_re_us/us_mosque_oppositionFar from ground zero, opponents fight new mosques

MURFREESBORO, Tenn. – Muslims trying to build houses of worship in the nation's heartland, far from the heated fight in New York over plans for a mosque near ground zero, are running into opponents even more hostile and aggressive.

Foes of proposed mosques have deployed dogs to intimidate Muslims holding prayer services and spray painted "Not Welcome" on a construction sign, then later ripped it apart.

The 13-story, $100 million Islamic center that could soon rise two blocks from the site of the Sept. 11 attacks would dwarf the proposals elsewhere, yet the smaller projects in local communities are stoking a sharper kind of fear and anger than has showed up in New York.

In the Nashville suburb of Murfreesboro, opponents of a new Islamic center say they believe the mosque will be more than a place of prayer. They are afraid the 15-acre site that was once farmland will be turned into a terrorist training ground for Muslim militants bent on overthrowing the U.S. government.

"They are not a religion. They are a political, militaristic group," said Bob Shelton, a 76-year-old retiree who lives in the area.

Shelton was among several hundred demonstrators recently who wore "Vote for Jesus" T-shirts and carried signs that said: "No Sharia law for USA!," referring to the Islamic code of law. Others took their opposition further, spray painting the sign announcing the "Future site of the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro" and tearing it up.

In Temecula, Calif., opponents brought dogs to protest a proposed 25,000-square-foot mosque that would sit on four acres next to a Baptist church. Opponents worry it will turn the town into haven for Islamic extremists, but mosque leaders say they are peaceful and just need more room to serve members.

In Murfreesboro, Imam Ossama Bahloul said the center has hired a security guard for Friday prayer services and a security camera constantly pans the parking lot and doors. Their fears are not without cause.

Two years ago, several men broke into the Islamic Center of Columbia, about 30 miles southwest of Murfreesboro, and torched it with molotov cocktails, stealing a stereo system and painting swastikas and "White Power" on the front of the building."They are not a religion. They are a political, militaristic group."

That's a perfect description of the Christians in this story, at least.

Using harassment, violence, and threats of violence to oppress anyone with a different opinion.

Oh and let's not forget what sparked this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100805/ap_on_bi_ge/us_ground_zero_mosque_20Group sues to stop mosque near NYC's ground zero

NEW YORK – The debate over a planned Islamic community center and mosque near ground zero became a court fight Wednesday, as a conservative advocacy group sued to try to stop a project that has become a fulcrum for balancing religious freedom and the legacy of the Sept. 11 attacks.

The American Center for Law and Justice, founded by the Rev. Pat Robertson, filed suit Wednesday to challenge a city panel's decision to let developers tear down a building to make way for the mosque two blocks from ground zero.

Opponents, including some Sept. 11 victims' relatives, see the prospect of a mosque so near the destroyed trade center as an insult to the memory of the nearly 3,000 people killed by Islamic terrorists in the 2001 attacks. Shouts of "shame on you!" erupted from the audience after the city panel voted Tuesday to deny landmark protection to the existing building, saying the 152-year-old structure wasn't distinctive enough.

Big-name Republicans including former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich have criticized the plan — as has the Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish civil rights group known for advocating religious freedom.Yep, can't build a mosque in the old yoo-ess-uh-ay.

The First Amendment only applies to Christians, didn't you know?

I agree religious freedom should apply unilaterally, but are u surprised people are upset by this?

I agree religious freedom should apply unilaterally, but are u surprised people are upset by this?
I've never heard of people protesting a Christian church being built near an abortion clinic that was bombed or where a doctor was shot.

I agree religious freedom should apply unilaterally, but are u surprised people are upset by this?I wasn't surprised to read about Christians who are bigoted, intolerant, and violent, just saddened that they are being taken seriously instead of being treated like neo-Nazis.

I've never heard of people protesting a Christian church being built near an abortion clinic that was bombed or where a doctor was shot.Or where boys were raped, which is just about everywhere.

If Christians had the same rules applied to them they'd like applied to Muslims there would be a huge outcry.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/13/fox-news-poll-percent-think-wrong-build-mosque-near-ground-zero/Fox News Poll: 64 Percent Think It's Wrong to Build Mosque Near Ground Zero

Published August 13, 2010

While a majority of American voters think the Muslim group that wants to put a mosque near ground zero has the right to build it there, most think it would be wrong to do so.

A Fox News poll released Friday found that 61 percent of voters think the Muslim group has the right to build a mosque in lower Manhattan.

However, 64 percent think it would be wrong to put a mosque there.

Just over a third (34 percent) says the group doesn't have that right to build a mosque there.Normally I'd cry Fox News bias, but I think this one is pretty much accurate.

One-third of voters don't believe in the U.S. Constitution (except when it suits them).

Two-thirds of voters are hate-mongering bigots.

Sounds about right.

Why was I not surprised that first article was from my state. They had an aryan nation rally in pulaski a few weeks back. While they did dot all the I's and cross all the T's in the assembly permit, as well as were otherwise peaceful lawabiding citizens, with in my opinion a warped perspective. I would not have them denied their basic civil rights, even if I completely disagree with their viewpoints. It is sad, but, goes on, particularly here in state I am residing in, and believe me it is rampant.

Or where boys were raped, which is just about everywhere.
We need a law prohibiting the building of a Catholic Church within 2000 feet of a school. :)

We need a law prohibiting the building of a Catholic Church within 2000 feet of a school. :)
Keep going.

Catholics must have some mummified human body part or organ to 'sanctify' their shrines. Their prophets were schizophrenics.
And their shaman bugger little boys in the butt.
They believe snakes can talk.
They practice ritualized cannibalism.
They discriminate against gays and women.
Have a list of laws which omits rape as a crime. But checking out your neighbors ox across the street, and wanting one like it, is.
And they worship a zombie.


Some day.
We need a law prohibiting the building of a Catholic Church
this would be your post, or one like it.

Comedy..yet every word true.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100822/ap_on_re_us/us_nyc_mosqueRallies over mosque near ground zero get heated

NEW YORK – The proposed mosque near ground zero drew hundreds of fever-pitch demonstrators Sunday, with opponents carrying signs associating Islam with blood, supporters shouting, "Say no to racist fear!" and American flags waving on both sides.

Police separated the two groups but there were some nose-to-nose confrontations, including a man and a woman screaming at each other across a barricade under a steady rain.

Opponents of the plan to build a $100 million, 13-story Islamic center and mosque two blocks from the World Trade Center site appeared to outnumber supporters. Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA" blared over loudspeakers as mosque opponents chanted, "No mosque, no way!"

Signs hoisted by hundreds of protesters standing behind police barricades read "SHARIA" — using dripping, blood-red letters to describe Islam's Shariah law. Around the corner, NYPD officers guarded a cordoned-off stretch of Park Place occupied by the old building that is to become the Islamic center.

Steve Ayling, a 40-year-old Brooklyn plumber who took his "SHARIA" sign to a dry spot by an office building, said the people behind the mosque project are "the same people who took down the twin towers."

Opponents demand that the mosque be moved farther from the site where nearly 3,000 people were killed on Sept. 11, 2001. Ayling said, "They should put it in the Middle East," and added that he still vividly remembers watching television on 9/11 "and seeing people jumping from the towers, and ashes falling on my house."

On a nearby sidewalk, police chased away a group that unfurled a banner with images of beating, stoning and other torture they said was committed by those who followed Islamic law.

Gila Barzvi, whose son, Guy Barzvi, was killed in the towers, stood with mosque opponents, clutching a large photo of her son with both hands.

"This is sacred ground and it's where my son was buried," the native Israeli from Queens said. She said the mosque would be "like a knife in our hearts."

She was joined by a close friend, Kobi Mor, who flew from San Francisco to participate in the rally.

If the mosque gets built, "we will bombard it," Mor said. He would not elaborate but added that he believes the project "will never happen."How sad for us as a nation.

On the Nazi Germany timeline, we're not too far behind Kristallnacht.

Naw, it's just time for elections so the news media needs to blow politically charged issues out of proportion. A small hand full of people screaming bloody murder in NYC doesn't necessarily represent the views of the nation. Very much like the gentleman quoted in the first post doesn't represent all of Christianity. With a population of 300 million, or a couple billion followers it's not hard to find a few people who just don't get it.

They'll build whatever they want to build, as federal law gives them the right. Someone will fight it in court and lose, Fox News will predict an end of the world Jihad and glory to Allah and then 6 months later well be all forget what even happened.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/08/25/national/a101528D17.DTL&tsp=1Police: NY cabbie is asked if he's Muslim, stabbed

(08-25) 10:15 PDT New York (AP) --

Police say a suburban New York man hailed a taxi in the city, asked the driver if he was Muslim and then stabbed him when the driver said yes.:rolleyes:

2,965 to go.



If you go by wikianswers numbers.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/08/29/national/a100408D93.DTL&tsp=1Fire at proposed Tenn. mosque site probed by feds

(08-29) 18:20 PDT Murfreesboro, Tenn. (AP) --

Supporters from across the country have called to give encouragement to a suburban Nashville mosque where a fire was the latest setback for a planned new building, officials said Sunday.

Authorities told mosque officials that four pieces of heavy construction equipment on the site were doused with an accelerant and one set ablaze, said Camie Ayash, spokeswoman for the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro.http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/08/28/national/w001530D25.DTLBeck: Help us restore traditional American values

(08-29) 04:38 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --

Conservative commentator Glenn Beck and tea party champion Sarah Palin appealed Saturday to a vast, predominantly white crowd on the National Mall to help restore traditional American values and honor Martin Luther King's message.

Palin told the tens of thousands who stretched from the marble steps of the Lincoln Memorial to the grass of the Washington Monument that calls to transform the country weren't enough. "We must restore America and restore her honor," said the former Alaska governor, echoing the name of the rally, "Restoring Honor."

"Something beyond imagination is happening," he said. "America today begins to turn back to God."

Beck exhorted the crowd to "recognize your place to the creator. Realize that he is our king. He is the one who guides and directs our life and protects us." He asked his audience to pray more. "I ask, not only if you would pray on your knees, but pray on your knees but with your door open for your children to see," he said.

Beck has said he did not intend to choose the King anniversary for his rally but had since decided it was "divine providence."And I'm supposed to believe the Muslims are the violent and dangerous ones? :rolleyes:

The crazy fundies are getting scary.

Bring back Christian values!

How about these? Sex & Church (http://www.amandahopkins.co.uk/downloads/Sex%20&%20Church.pdf). Medieval punishments for variety of sexual crimes.

How about these? Sex & Church (http://www.amandahopkins.co.uk/downloads/Sex%20&%20Church.pdf). Medieval punishments for variety of sexual crimes.Today they want to put away people for life for thinking about unapproved sex.

Christians haven't really progressed.

quote"Fire at proposed Tenn. mosque site probed by feds"

not surprised here, since the world trade center incident, in this area, anti islamic sentiments are at an all time high, particularly with the nuttiest of religeous people.

quote"Beck: Help us restore traditional American values"

It would depend on the American Values in question, such as during prohibition when it was ok to poison grain alcohol for industrial uses, that which could also be consumed internally via external delivery systems. 1200 people in New York alone died in this manner in one year during that period. Again this is largely vague in the Values in question.

Should we revert housing laws which facilatated the discrimination of minorities more than capable of purchasing housing? How about the return to mom and pop stores rather than mass chains of franchises such as Wal Mart and Best Buy as a method for people to own their own businesses as well as a method for room for entrepreneurs? Are they actively discussing the role as a single income provider in the middle class being able to support his/her family? Would this return subvert social progress in many issues still archaic but, prevalent today?

I think most of those people have utterly no idea what they're doing or asking for.

http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/beck-mlk_flow-chart.jpg

How about the return to mom and pop stores rather than mass chains of franchises such as Wal Mart and Best Buy as a method for people to own their own businesses as well as a method for room for entrepreneurs?

I don't want a return to mom and pop.

Mom and pop charged me too much money for the stuff they sold me.
I want to keep that money so I can spend it on something else. And they lived in nicer places than I lived in.

Besides there is a method for room for entrepreneurs.
Look at Hollywood Video and Blockbuster.
They moved in across the street from mom and pop video stores. Offering dollar rentals for a week, with no late fees. Mom and pops went out of business. Raised prices to 5 dollars a night, with 5 dollars a day late fees. Just as predicted.

Guess what, entrepreneurs have put Blockbuster and Hollywood out of business. Video distribution is next to free in cost now, or at least much less expensive for those who still wish to pay.

That is not to say that I don't support mom and pop stores. There is a last remnant of the old style camera stores in Sacramento. It's called Pardee's Camera. Every single person in that store is more knowledgeable than I am in some aspect of photography than I am, and I am pretty knowledgeable.

Most of their prices are comparable to online retailers, factored in shipping and handling. I will buy from them to help keep them open over buying the same thing at Adorama or BH, especially the wet photography stuff still available. Virtually all of the other camera and photography stores in the valley have closed their doors.

I think most of those people have utterly no idea what they're doing or asking for.



Why would you, or anyone, think that King and Beck are comparable?

Might as well compare King and Bill Maher.

Do a side by side of Maher and Beck...

Or King and Al Sharpton, or Jesse Jackson.

Those are comparable.

Do the Dali Lama and the Pope, that would be cool.

Beck is a political entertainer.

You can compare a Canon with a Nikon. But you can't compare a Hasselblad with either. You could compare a Hasselblad with a Holga, just because they are 6x6, but there is no comparison. And you can't compare a Holga with a Canon or a Nikon.

Did you change the channel when you were a kid, when Sesame Street did the "One of these things is not like the other" skits? Any child who had, would see that there is no comparison between King and Beck.

quote" don't want a return to mom and pop.

Mom and pop charged me too much money for the stuff they sold me.
I want to keep that money so I can spend it on something else. And they lived in nicer places than I lived in."

That is the point I am trying to express with mom and pop stores. Small local businesses with a distribution of wealth to them directly, thus encouraging local small businesses rather than large homogenized monopolistic corporations shelling out small wages to their employees. As well as local flair and flavor to said businesses run by average day Joe's, who in turn with distributers, pay higher costs to their employees via wages as well as goods and services rendered. Thus, middle class workers drive the economy, both domestically as well as abroad.

Unfortunately, what you seem to not quite get with the massive corporations churning out to much profit is the long term economic consequences of such business, with the constant mergers and aquisitions in part becoming even larger. The long term consequences is eventually one single corporate entity will in fact gover. As well as being unable to generate profit with the various expenses, as they will in effect own everything, yet with wages and so on, will generate losses as the expenses will by far and large erode their revenue streams, as the lower class citizens need a distribution of wealth to be profited off of.

Why would you, or anyone, think that King and Beck are comparable?Maybe because Beck is suggesting he is comparable, by holding a rally and giving a speech at the same place as and on the anniversary of King's speech?You can compare a Canon with a Nikon. But you can't compare a Hasselblad with either. You could compare a Hasselblad with a Holga, just because they are 6x6, but there is no comparison. And you can't compare a Holga with a Canon or a Nikon.Of course you can. They all take pictures. And if you're going to say your clumsy large format camera is as practical as my Nikon DSLR, I'm going to call you out on it.

Ok, they all take pictures. They are all cameras. Gotcha.




You can compare King and Beck because they were both human.


King was a civil rights activist and writer.
Beck is a political entertainer. Who pays people to write for him.



6x6 is medium format. Large format is usually considered 4"x5", or larger. And the Holga, medium format, is vastly less clumsy or cumbersome than your Nikon DSLR. It is light, and it has only one function to deal with. No batteries. You can leave it on the seat of your car, and not expect a break in, hence you can have it with you always. At $25 costs about 1% the cost of your Nikon, with lens, and memory. It has the effective resolution of a 125MP digital camera. See, why would you even want to compare them.

The vast majority of Beck viewers don't take him seriously. Or at least much less than Maher viewers. Why do you? Bill Maher is a comedian, and he is able to get very very serious guests to be on his show. Beck can't do that. Do I need to remind you that Maher is a comic.

That is the point I am trying to express with mom and pop stores. Small local businesses with a distribution of wealth to them directly, thus encouraging local small businesses rather than large homogenized monopolistic corporations shelling out small wages to their employees. As well as local flair and flavor to said businesses run by average day Joe's, who in turn with distributers, pay higher costs to their employees via wages as well as goods and services rendered. Thus, middle class workers drive the economy, both domestically as well as abroad.


My point, is that I want my wealth distributed to me, not to shop owners.

I grew up in Lodi California. Small town. With a few mom and pop stores downtown.

WalMart goes in at the edge of town. Blights the downtown commercial area. Penney's closes, opens new store next to WalMart. Woolworth closes. Shoe stores close. Office and business stores downtown, go out of business. Hardware store closes. Coffee shops close. Dress stores close.

Just like all the anti WalMart propaganda says will happen.

But guess what. There is now a high end restaurant and brewery in the Woolworth store location, with 12 other small businesses in a kind of mini mall. Higher end luxury(non essential) type stores, Mudmill, a custom Candy shop. The coffee shops are now cafes. We have a 4 star restaurant and bar where the shoe store was. A movie multiplex where a sleazy dive bar was. Wine tasting bar were the office supply store was. Solons replaced barber shops. The TV repair place is now an antique store.
Pennys location has been a couple of furniture places, and now is going to be the new location of the Great Valley Serpentarium. I know the owner personally, his present location was right behind my shop, industrial commercial building, in industrial neighborhood. He is an entrepreneur, and he is moving on up. He came up with a new at the time business model, essentially a zoo that sells reptiles and snakes, and the things that they eat. A retail reptile and snake zoo. I had never heard of that before, or since. Completely new non essential, luxury niche. Which would never have been possible downtown, if WalMart had not moved in.

And the whole downtown streets are closed for pedestrian traffic only for Farmers Market on Thursdays. Way cool.

All entrepreneurial enterprises. All replaced low end retailers with high(er) end retailers. And why, because people now because of low prices on staple items from WalMart, have extra money left over for more luxury non essential items and services.

I have worked at WalMart. I was an overnight stocker, I know the type of employees that WalMart hires. WalMart is the biggest community service in any town they go into. They hire the virtually unemployable. I have never met so many functionally illiterate unskilled people in one place before or since. Most of them would not have been able to hold a job with any of the businesses that were put out of business by WalMart going in.

King was a civil rights activist and writer.
Beck is a political entertainer. Who pays people to write for him.That's like saying King wasn't a political figure, but a minister.

Fact is, Beck is a political figure with a political agenda, just like King was. Even though that isn't his official job title.

And I don't see Bill Maher comparing himself to political activists. You're the only one comparing Maher to, well, anything.The vast majority of Beck viewers don't take him seriously.Really?

http://mit.zenfs.com/5/2010/08/beckrally2.jpg

^ Those people do. There were at least 100,000 people at his rally and they weren't there for a laugh.

You underestimate the following these extremist right wing religious fanatics have.

I take it back, just skimmed the keynote speech.
He does sound like a preacher.

quote"My point, is that I want my wealth distributed to me, not to shop owners"

I fully understand you wanting more of your money. More bang for your buck as well. I also understand many shopkeepers of their own business would like to make 40k a year. I understand Best Buy would pay out 18k a year.

quote,"WalMart goes in at the edge of town. Blights the downtown commercial area. Penney's closes, opens new store next to WalMart. Woolworth closes. Shoe stores close. Office and business stores downtown, go out of business. Hardware store closes. Coffee shops close. Dress stores close."

your description worked well for your area it seems. However, my area as an example, besides Wal Mart for music compact discs, the nearest store is 50 miles away now. Obviously, a music shop specialized in a certain field. Wal Mart does not. Wal Mart works well for the new Disturbed, Avenged Sevenfold, Nickelback albums. Unfortunately, it does not for explicit lyrics albums, nor for people like me who enjoy less common music such as the european metal scene. Notice these places specialize in certain areas but Wal Mart does not?

How about the hardware store. Sure Wal MArt does well telling basic tools. Often you maybe looking into just a screwdriver, which Wal Mart is quite good at selling. Does Wl Mart offer shingles for roofing.

edit.... coming off of crap loads of overtime. will continue and make several points later with the edit.

No shingles.

But an OSH store opened up in town right after WalMart did. And now we have a Lowes across the street from WalMart.

I don't think that Henderson Brothers ever sold shingles either. Maybe they did. I dont remember.