I want a place where I can complain about stuff related to raiding in the high end game and not why Druids dont get rez or are not desired in an EXP group at lvl 52.

Also low moderation plz :)

You got it!

Welcome to TDG General Board.

Yes there are miracles!

Here's one:

pub149.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovequests (http://pub149.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovequests)

which contains discussion on Strategies and Quests. For some odd reason, this forum seems filled with General Discussion.

<em>edit: I so agree that the uber vs casual thing is getting old</em>

I think that's an excellent idea. I notice most of the other class boards have lively discussions between players at the top end of the game that seem to be lacking here except for the tiresome uber vs casual fights.

I quit EQ a few months ago prior to getting into the elemental planes but I still like visiting here and hearing how our druid class is performing in particular. It would be cool to hear from druids in the elementals and PoT zones about how all the high end gear and focus effects are working out and how their roles are evolving on high end raids. Just make a rule to keep the uber vs casual crap out of it :p

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I want a place where I can complain about stuff related to raiding in the high end game and not why Druids dont get rez or are not desired in an EXP group at lvl 52.[/quote]

Because we all know that "high end" druids are all raiders. :lol: . As has been suggested, try the strategies forum. Or, maybe, start your own board. /shrug

[Self-edited to remove potentially inflammatory material.]

Regards,

Aldane Aglond
Ayonae Ro

So your saying you can only raid when your at my lvl of progression? oh and that word "uber" makes me just feel like I forgot to wash my underpants :(

Okay, I'm flashing my moderator badge on this.

I don't give a flying...whatever what the heck your opinion is on the "uber vs. not uber and/or raider and/or high end blah blah blah" debate is.

LEAVE IT ALONE. POST IN ANOTHER THREAD. If you post debate comments in this thread, Imma get medieval on your butt. (Hi, I'm tired of this debate and it leaking into EVERYTHING).

However, discussion concerning whether this place exists on TDG, or should be added or not should certainly continue.

<strong>I think that's an excellent idea. I notice most of the other class boards have lively discussions between players at the top end of the game that seem to be lacking here except for the tiresome uber vs casual fights.</strong>

Here is the total of druid high-end discussion...

High_end_druid 1: When you bend over so SOE can give it to you up the ass, how high is your end?
High_end_druid 2: About this *puts hand about 3.3452 ft away from the ground* high.
High_end_druid 1: Inshallah.

Everything that needs discussion gets discussed here. Hell, it's a simple game, it's not like theres much to talk about anyway really, lol. The only thing you're missing from typical "high end bitch, er discussion, forums" is class bitching. Why, because we're better than everyone else. If we want to participate in the endless threads whineing of how overpowered bards are and enchanters are and paladins are and every other class but warriors and rogues, whose threads are whines of how underpowered they are, then we'd just read the other boards. :)

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>However, discussion concerning whether this place exists on TDG, or should be added or not should certainly continue.[/quote]

My feeling is that there is already a place for such discussion: Quests, Strats, and More. Do we really need to start breaking down the forums into tighter level categories?

General Discussion 1-50
General Discussion 51-60
General Discussion 61-65
Quests, Strats, and More, Pre-60
Quests, Strats, and More, Post-60
Low-End Raiding
Mid-Level Raiding
High-End Raiding

I know I'm exaggerating things, but to cater to one subset (those who want a high end raiding forum) would pointlessly fragment the community and the discussions.

Regards,

Aldane Aglond
Ayonae Ro

"Also low moderation plz"

That is the Unkempt forum.
I am surprised that more of these posts don't end up there on purpose.


"Do we really need to start breaking down the forums into tighter level categories?"

No. My personal opinion is that the forums we have here accomodate just about everything besides a 'sig testing area'(and we sure don't need that crap).

If you want to mix it up, again I suggest take it to Unkempt(my favorite section, and is rather dull right now).

...because too many of the people who might engage in any substantial debate feel that airing too much information on the boards leads to nerfs.

Not my view on it...but without active participation from some of the more prominent Time guild druids who come here most of the meaty discussions will peter out...

<strong>Not my view on it...but without active participation from some of the more prominent Time guild druids who come here most of the meaty discussions will peter out...</strong>

Time is different than anywhere else how? Vex Thal was different than anywhere else how? ToV was different...

Same AI, same mobs, look the AE up on Lucy. ZZZzzzzz.

Let me be a bit more specific. I rarely ever see Druids post here that play in the top guilds serverwide. I was interested in a place where class balance could be discussed at the End Game level.

How do you discuss class balance with very little to no input from anyone that is not actively raiding at the End Game level?

Ok, a separate forum may be overkill, but it would be nice to see some more activity about druids in the higher end tiers than yet another thread about how to fight the corrupted barracuda in LOIO or some such.

L1ndara, if EQ is really so easy that a drunken chimpanzee banging away at the keyboard could level up to 65 in a day, why bother with any EQ discussion forums at all? heh.

I think there are a lot of upper end druid tactics and strategies that make for some interesting topics. Scirocco's Frog War thread spawned a discussion about high level charm fighting techniques in PoS I thought was enlightening. It'd be neat to hear what roles high end raid druids are playing now since I'm sure they've changed from my raiding days.

The impression I always get whenever such druids do speak out is that they feel druids are well balanced on that end, perhaps needing only some minor tweaks for convenience.

I'm not seeing how such a discussion is in need of any more special forum than those we already have.

Quote:

Time is different than anywhere else how? Vex Thal was different than anywhere else how? ToV was different...

Same AI, same mobs, look the AE up on Lucy. ZZZzzzzz.


I should not have used a specific zone, but the point is the same. It is not that any zone is so earthshaking (and I definitely don't find VT that uber anymore - and bear in mind that is where my guild is).

So elementals, whatever. There is rarely substantive debate on this board about anything other than yet more tired renditions of uber vs. casual.

I once a long time ago posted about a similar topic on this board. My view was that there was not much need for this to be a strategy board for raids etc since there are some boards out there the do it very ably, and once you begin to have a place where that kind of discussion is focussed, it is self perpetuating since people will go back and build on the reputation with new threads. Safehouse for instance gets more than its share of leet mob strats.

What does that leave for discussions on druid boards? Well ,tehre is the ocassional meaty debate on critiquing specific spells (like was done with moonfire so long ago). There is the aforementioned tedium of uber vs casual. There is the ocassional thread on endgame druid gear (best of the best -chest). There are also the lesser versions of those threads which is interesting in an aspirational way for many, but ends up seeming like a lot of self-satisfied navel gazing after a bit (like a lot of the debate about how the VT druid arms effect sux which of course it does).

And then the stuff that no one posts anymore...how do you solo this or that which generally speaking is probably not meant to be soloable by a druid....

There is meat here, but there are so many reluctant community members that we rarely rise above generalities.

Dindail, just put the other druids on a loot diet if you don't see them actively posting here :P

Worst high-end probelm is aggro mitigation, as you know. Would be sweet if druids got some form of jolt.

Monkly Business just did this and I think it is stupid idea.

Fact is all the class message boards only do a fraction of the traffic they used to do back during peak usage.

You used to be able to post a message here and have it scroll off the frong page in a couple of hours.

Now discussions are around for a week.

The oldest thread on the front page of this board was over 2.5 days old when I just checked.

Not exactly like discussions are being lost.

Decreasing the flow of messages in one place more and more until it is a drip just makes the board worthless and not worth browsing any longer.

If there were 100 new topics a day showing up, it might make sense to segregate something like this out. But nothing like that is close to happening. It simply doesn't make sense.

I noticed that rangers don't bitch much or have the whole uber vs non uber debate much.

Does this mean rangers are the most balanced class?

I've found that high end raiding for a druid very rewarding. Druids don't really have a problem with high end raiding. A quick look at Township Rebellion's recruitment page shows:

<strong><span style="font-size:x-small;">DRUID (Level 65)(At least 100+ AA) - High Need
</span></strong>

Other high end raid level guilds have the same need: Skilled Storm Wardens.

Raiding needs every class to be successful. No pallies? The warriors will complain. No shadow knights? The enchanters will complain. No rangers? The wizzies will smirk but the rogues will complain. No beastlords? The rangers, rogues and spell casters complain. No druids, no wizzies, no shammies, no enchanters? Everyone complains. No warriors or clerics? No raid.

A high end section to the message boards won't really solve the druid's problems. Our problems aren't in that area.

Most of the druid's problems lay in the lower levels. Between levels 34, when we don't get an upgrade to Greater Healing and get Regeneration instead, and level 58 when we finally get an efficient heal (Tunare's Renewal). It is at these levels that druids suffer the most.

And as a corollary, our reputation suffers as well. Between levels 34 to 58, we are getting into the "build a reputation" stage in our careers. This is where most classes group, make friends and generally learn how to work with each other.

Unfortunately, druids are forced to solo though these levels on account of not being able to bring anything "good" to the party. Forced may not be the best word, but consider that we can't heal the warrior without going OOM, we can't debuff the mobs dps at these levels so that we CAN keep up with the healing. We can't nuke these mobs into oblivion so that their dps occurs over less ... s's. We can however, buff hitpoints which again unfortunately only makes our outclassed Greater Heal spell even less classed.

If you look at the druid's spell lineup between levels 34 to 58, you will find that they were MADE for soloing. We get Lightning Strike at 34 as well as Regen. Any druid will tell you that they never start a kite without regen up. With regen, you can ignore the occasional swipe during your kite. It goes the same from there with better health regen, better nukes (both quad and single) and better DoTs.

In short, druids were almost designed to solo between 34 and 58. While this may seem like a good thing on the surface, we do, as mentioned earlier, miss out on all the camraderie and other-class-learning times that ... All the other classes go through. Well, maybe not necros but no one likes them anyway because they prefer dead things to living things.

Where was I? We don't need a high end section to these boards because the high end isn't the problem with the class. What we need is a place where we can discuss general problems with groups, buffs, relations and what nots.

Yeah! We should have a General Discussion section where we can air out points of interest, class issues and upcomming nerfs.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>There is meat here, but there are so many reluctant community members that we rarely rise above generalities. [/quote]

This is the reason many of the high-end raid druids don't post. Hell, I'm one of the easiest going guys I know, and I try to not step on toes when at all possible and I still get called an uber goober and get berrated when I support anything raid oriented :) People learn their lesson when bitten enough.

/nod.
It's not exactly hopping around here. Many of the long timers are gone now.

However, I'm curious what you could possibly have to ask about high end raiding here in the first place. What is there to discuss that can't be done on EQrogues?

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>This is the reason many of the high-end raid druids don't post. Hell, I'm one of the easiest going guys I know, and I try to not step on toes when at all possible and I still get called an uber goober and get berrated when I support anything raid oriented People learn their lesson when bitten enough. [/quote]

Kinda the reason I only post here about once a month. Everytime I post I have a moderator telling me im using inproper tone on the boards or something to that effect. Or i get into a pissing match with a lvl 52 Druid who just strarted playing EQ 2 months ago telling me I dont know what the class needs when im over 250 Days played over 3 years now, and about 200 of those days are raid days. You say we dont need anything in the High End, I say we do as you dont spend your life at lvl 38.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Ok, a separate forum may be overkill, but it would be nice to see some more activity about druids in the higher end tiers than yet another thread about how to fight the corrupted barracuda in LOIO or some such.[/quote]

Then...encourage some more high level druids to post here? You make it sound like high level discussion is shunned here, then mention that a high level charming strat post got some great responses. If you want more of a particular type of topic you don't need to open a new forum exclusively for it. Just start making posts on that topic and get people to read and reply.

<em>Let me be a bit more specific. I rarely ever see Druids post here that play in the top guilds serverwide. I was interested in a place where class balance could be discussed at the End Game level.</em>

There's not much high end balance that needs to be discussed, druids in end game guilds are well off, only thing that would be nice would be some form of jolt/concussion. Everything else I would ask Sony for would just be convenience stuff (group nature's recovery, stuff like that)


<em>The impression I always get whenever such druids do speak out is that they feel druids are well balanced on that end, perhaps needing only some minor tweaks for convenience.</em>

Yup.

I don't post much because everyone's so bitter, or asking for dumb crap like res. There are balance issues, but not really much of any for time guild druids, so there's no compelling reason to add any input. Not to mention all the uber vs non-uber stuff, out of all the boards I think this is probably the worst for that, except maybe the necro board.

What makes you think there arent many high end druids hiding here, who simply choose not to identify themselves in bright bold colours and magelo profiles? ;)

As Nuvian said(hi zaar!) there really isnt all that much to talk about. Individual mob strategies are all out there already, dont really need much more discussion. High end raiding druid balance is all about aggro, that's the end of it right there. Anything else would just be nice but there are other classes who need tuning far more than us.

Besides, posting spoiler ideas for SOE to see around here tends to make changes on the test server in short order... 8P

Tia

I agree with Tiane and Nuvian. My only limitation on most raids and groups is aggro. I can't burn through mana fast enough when nuking because of aggro.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I think this is probably the worst for that, except maybe the necro board.[/quote]

It goes a bit like this:

"I'm uber!!"
"No you're not, I am!!"
"Oh who are we kidding, we're both uber, compared to the lesser classes!"

(paraphrased)

woland.

Its quite simple. To lure more high end druids on the board the current community has to offer more valuable information to them.

Digging through request post from "does this and that stack?" to "how do i make fast cash" is not interesting once you reached the very end game.

And besides, why should some "lame herd following uber player" share his longtime game experiences of leveling and high end raiding with people like Alyssia?

Most of the really uber guilds (serverfirst killers) try to keep their experiences secret as long as possible. But unfortunately that information is the really interesting for all those in the 2nd place.

My last information request on this board was this: pub149.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovedruidicequipment.showMessage?topicI D=26784.topic (http://pub149.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovedruidicequipment.showMessage?topicI D=26784.topic)

160 views yet, no answer. If i post a single argument on the uber vs. casual debate i get 300 views and 15 answers almost seconds later.

The DG chat has a pretty high-end group in it usually. Seen ALOT of bugged encounters, new l00ts, etc talked about there. Lots of conversations go on.

As stated before, alot of things do not get talked about. I know of a few special ICQ channels that talk about bugs, etc. I even know of a special Dev ICQ that special guilds &/or Guildleaders have access too.

Alot of the 1st kills, etc are done through bugs, etc. People don't talk about alot of stuff cause then it gets "fixed". I know of alot of bugs, safe spots, exploits. Stuff that I have found or been told about.

Not much of the high end game can really be talked about, especially in a public forum. It's kind of secret, you don't want your competition to be given all the answers to a problem that took you days to figure out. You don't want the Dev's to think your doing something "wrong" and change the encounter on you.

That stated, if you ask a specific question in chat you will usually get a decent answer. Asking how to do Xegony will get you ignored, asking if the guards seemed bugged, etc will get several responses. Especially if others are getting screwed by it too.

About bugs, the damn dev's "fixed" my fav bug of the last 4 years this last patch :( . No more sneaking to coirnav and beating the rogues down. :(

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Its quite simple. To lure more high end druids on the board the current community has to offer more valuable information to them.[/quote]

Didn't realize this was EVER the goal of The Druid's Grove. What do I know.. I have only been reading it since it went up.


I didn't know the goal was to try and lure uber druids here. Where are they know that they need to be lured from? EQ Druids?

If they want to come here and talk with people who play druids, played druids, want to play druids, want to annoy druids, want to be annoyed by druids, or anything else with the world druid in it, I imagine they are relatively welcome.

I didn't realize there was a recruitment drive on-going, though.

Would be nice though. A bunch of uber cool druids who are too cool for the room showing up on a secret message board flashing a hand sign and then slinking in the back door to share information with other uber cool druids who know the handsign. That would be a cool place. Where people who feel like EQ strategies are of interest to our National Security and not to be seen publicly. People who think the Sony only makes nerfs based on public message board declarations and not because they can watch you do anything, anytime, anywhere in the game.

Maybe someone could make secret decoder rings and everyone could post in ROT13 and Pig Latin.

And maybe, just maybe, someone will tell you where you can find that eyepatch.


Fact is only a relatively small percentage of MMOG players regularly participate on message boards. The percentage of hardcore gamer is no doubt higher. But still probably a relatively small percentage of the playerbase.

<strong>Its quite simple. To lure more high end druids on the board the current community has to offer more valuable information to them.</strong>

There is fairly limited "high end" information in the game though. Most of the high end spells are just low end spells with bigger numbers on them. The high end encounters of yesterday are now low end and they're the same as the current high end encounters. Anyone surprised about the Rathe Council setup? No, it's the same as the emperor, which is the same as the high priest...

I think what probably most distinguishes knowledgeable druid players is how much they know about OTHER classes.

The goal of this board is to provide a location where anyone can come along and participate on the forums. Whether it be by answering a question about a quest, or posting their two cents about class balance. We are "druid" based because the majority of our posters are druids in Everquest, but by no means do we say "only druids can post here."

As EQ's aged, more and more of our regular posters have become "my main is a druid" players, with twinks or secondary char's on the side. This has allowed discussions in our General and Unkempt areas to become very multi-focal and it's nice to have points of views from many different types of players and classes. I'm actually happy we're getting other classes starting to post on our boards, it makes a debate nice and interesting.

That being said, we're not going to forget our roots. 80% of the different sub-forums are made specifically for druids and druidic questions. If you have a question about a raid tactic or high-end hunting location, there's a forum for you to ask it in already, and questions are usually answered pretty promptly.

Unfortunately the fear of being nerfed due to the "methodology" being placed on EQ msgboards has been validated a number of times. I will say this much, for the people willing to dig hard, the information is out there - maybe not in "how to" format, but almost all the tactics, melee format, and spell effects are all out there. Now, if you want to compile that information, present it in "walkthrough" format, post it up and we'll sticky it and archive it.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Unfortunately the fear of being nerfed due to the "methodology" being placed on EQ msgboards has been validated a number of times.[/quote]

Yep, many many many times people have tried to get certain exploits fixed, they petition, they bug, hell they show the exploit to gm's over and over. Nada, one post of FoH or safehouse and Boom. Servers come down the next day or two.

The GM's don't talk to the Dev's. The Dev's don't talk to the GM's. People forget that the GM's make like $9 an hour or so (not sure what it is now. I know that they were paid $8.50 per hour by Verant). The Dev's may watch certain guilds like FoH, AL or TR on new high end encounters, but even then they miss alot. So many instances of them breaking things, not every fixing the a problem though several patch msg's claim it, having to wait for us to explain what the game is really doing or having funky bugs months and years after release.

Basically, the alot of the Dev's don't really have a clue whats going on in EQ. So when they read on FoH, Safehouse, DG etc about a exploit or even a technique that goes against their beliefs on how said encounter "should" be done they now know to change it. PoEa, b and Time are perfect examples of this.

As an elemental raiding druid I have to admit that I would like to see more thoughts from other high end druids because after playing a druid for 4 years with nearly 300 days played there is not a whole lot outside of raids I have yet to do that I don't at least have a decent idea about. However this board is really not very receptive to high level druid chat from what I've seen.

Alot of the posters react very negatively to the assertions made by high end raiding posters. For example I would venture to guess that pretty much all elemental/time raiding druids would agree that our spell lineup is pretty balanced, in fact I think PoP has us at about the best position we have been in in a long time.

For some of velious and pretty much all of luclin we were hardly wanted and seen as mostly bad wizards who could cast potg and occasionally heal. But with natures infusion, command of tunare, sotw we are now very much a needed raiding class as well as good in groups. With our aa abilities we can help mitigate ae damage well and our fast healing is respectable. At the top end I cannot use my mana fast enough on most fights without it getting me aggro and therefore killed. Aggro is the number one limiting factor on high end raids.

I am somewhat disappointed by the lack of discussion about the stuff that I encounter when I play but have just sort of not posted mostly because it didnt seem worth it. Maybe I'll write a few posts with tips from a long time druid and see how those go. I wrote a post about how I solo in tactics but I didnt notice it getting much discussion or traffic even though I thought describing in detail how I broke open the pigpen was pretty neat. anyhoo maybe I'll bust out some leet strats from the haggle dojo in abit, IF im not too busy playing already =)

Hagglethorn Happyfeet Prexus StormWarden

Actually Haggle, I read that post of your several times. I always find it fascinating to read the strategies others use. Sometimes I try them sometimes I don't. Sometimes I learn something I never thought of, something subtle that changes my play for the better. Sometimes I think of something I do that works better for me, but I always find it fun to see the thought process others use.

It was a really great post.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Didn't realize this was EVER the goal of The Druid's Grove[/quote]

Yeez, did i said this? Not a single word.

There were 3 prior posters wondering why there are so few really high end uber druids contributing on this board. And my post was pointing out some reasons.

My guild is far from beeing really uber (doing VT, whiped several times on RZtW). We have 10 very experienced druids and I am the only one reading this board. Did a quick survey why none of my guildmates reading TG.

Guess what they answer? "TDG is useless ranting board." And sadly enough your post just proved it again.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>We have 10 very experienced druids and I am the only one reading this board. Did a quick survey why none of my guildmates reading TG.[/quote]

Oddly, I did the same poll. All but 1 of our regular druids seems to read the board, and atleast 3 or 4 post from time to time, but I post with the most consistency (though I think Loralin reads more than me :p ).

People will always react strongly to this board. Amidst everything that does get posted, there is solid information and thoughtful commentary at times. If this were a board purely about strats and spells, it wouldn't hold my interest for long.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> Would be nice though. A bunch of uber cool druids who are too cool for the room showing up on a secret message board flashing a hand sign and then slinking in the back door to share information with other uber cool druids who know the handsign. That would be a cool place. Where people who feel like EQ strategies are of interest to our National Security and not to be seen publicly. People who think the Sony only makes nerfs based on public message board declarations and not because they can watch you do anything, anytime, anywhere in the game.

Maybe someone could make secret decoder rings and everyone could post in ROT13 and Pig Latin.[/quote]

It's not a secret hand sign. It's a ... sound. The kind that a certain small aquatic bird of the family anatidae makes.

In all honesty, posting strats here for what boils down to an all guild raid would be misplaced. The "uber" guilds have their own boards with private forums where strats can be discussed, or they have their own /gu to hash and rehash strats.

Many encounters are varied in PoP and you can't post a "one size fits all" skill set for them. Best you can do is say something like "Buff cold resist for XXX fight" and "It is going to take two druids and a cleric to heal the rampage tank in this fight...". Overall strats involve an intermingling of classes and I tend to stick to what I know best... my job in a raid. Heck! We have clerics who have been on every downing of Xegony that we have done and they couldn't tell you anything more about the fight than what the CH order is and how fast it has to be. This is true of many classes in many PoP encounters. The job may vary for druids from encounter to encounter, but it is still only a small part of the whole anyway.

Because so much of the upper end encounters revolve around the TEAM and not the individual, it's tough to say any class isn't really "balanced". You might see a need and know which class is logically the best suited for a certain adjustment, but for the most part, we have the skills, it's just a matter of balancing the numbers of single classes or activities of all classes together.

That said, high level druids are pretty well balanced for raids. Not necessarily for grouping or for soloing, but if the druid has grown from level 1 to 65+, grouping isn't something that expected and if soloing can be done by any 65 level without mega AAs then it can be done by a druid with 350+ AAs too.

Soooo... I guess my point is simply that those druids who want to group and those who regularly solo as their main play style would be the most likely to have issues that need to be discussed here. And they aren't the druids who live in raids when in EQ, and all the "uber guilds" live in raids. The issues remain the same for the soloers and wannabe groupers at more levels than 65+. It isn't *just* a high level set of concerns.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It's not a secret hand sign. It's a ... sound. The kind that a certain small aquatic bird of the family anatidae makes.[/quote]

lmao... I actually understood that, guess I'm considered uber since I know the secret druid sound. Gosh, making that sound repeatedly sure makes me I feel like I'm Donald.

Back to topic. For me, the only major topic of concern to high end druids is simply how to go oom without getting squashed to pulp first. For months, I haven't had much success in emptying even half my mana bar in a raid or group setting. To the point where I remember every single instance (3) where I've used up more than half my mana bar and cheered and pet myself on the back for a job well done.

If I chain-nuke through a fight, I burn maybe 3 bubbles of mana. I speced in Evo, and have SCM3, but other than that I have no type of mana pres item for my nukes. I usually end up only using half my bar though, because if I chain-nuke, I go "ker-SPLAT!" :D

If I'm healing, I burn mana much faster, use mod rods, go OOM, need feeds, MW is good, what-have-you. Nuking is my passion though, and I would love to see some type of aggro reducing agent for druids (Jolt is a great idea) so we can unload all this mana. It's like being all dressed up, with nowhere to go.

I was initially attracted to this board about a year ago because unlike EQDruids, it seemed to have more discussions pertaining to higher-end raiding. TDG was where the level 60 crowd hung out and discussed; EQDruids was more for the 1-45ish crowd. I've been visiting TDG less and less though, because lately it's degenerated into the tired uber vs. casual debate and the high-end druids are getting stoned for even daring to talk about how things are for them in the high-end game.

If I want good discussions on upper level druiding, I can start my own channel on Torv for the druids in our top 3 guilds to talk in without having people like Alyssia frothing at the mouth and calling me the spawn of Satan.

Ok im probably as qualified as any other high end druid to post about this..im time enabled stage 4 TZ/TT/Saryn...almost VZ...so I do know the high end ...anyway.

This is generally how it is at the high end.

Our spell line up is pretty good atm pot9 / kazan makes us very much wanted as buffing etc...although some may wish they didnt have to do that lol.

Debufing etc all works pretty well always demanded by the casters.

We have our circles which always makes us wanted on raids for quite a few encounters now RZTW for example which is good.

Our healing roles are one of our main strong points on raids NI is a pretty good patching and "group" healing spell usually adequate to keep a group alive. TR / KR for me are rarely used their too slow but a nice option when needed sometimes. CB is also used on the high end "chain heal" encounters nice spell to use when you have many druids patching at the same time..fast and low mana...you can regen the mana back pretty much if your high end.

Nuking / DoTing is also a nice addition and in alot of cases druids are "picked" because they can do both the damage and the healing when requried.

What youll tend to find is druids tend to get into their "roles". For example some druids love to debuff an nuke others maybe dont like debuffing and only heal...all work at the high end although healing to me unfortunalty is a little too biast over our other abilities so alot get "put" into the healing role.

As mentioned in earlier posts. Agro is probably our main problem we have both with healing and nuking (or debuffing) what you tend to find at the higher end is the "regular" mobs hit for 1k+ reguarly.

What his tends to mean is HP is paramount at the higher end because we have no ability to remove or reduce agro which imho we definatly need something. So you have to be able to tank those hits for the enough time for the other healers to "save" you when you over agro which does happen IF your actually doing something rather than just standing there which some high end druids do.

Generally though the high end druid is very much all rounded these days..a teeny bit biast towards healing but that does benefit us sometimes its nice to be wanted in a group rather than ending up to be the fodder to fill the group.

Hope that helps people understand a bit more about how things are.


Tils

Tils pretty much summed up the position of a high end druid at this time very well. I'm in guild that is the rathe council away from Time and has been doing the elementals for about 4 months now. From my experience I spend the bulk of my mana healing although some druids in my guild definitely nuke more and we tend to try to spread the debuff agro around so not too much of it falls on any one druid. For things like the trials in earth and clearing through air and water though I do plenty of nuking as well especially right as pulls come in since healing aggroes all mobs while nuking just the one =)

On boss fights the limiting factor for casting is aggro by FAR. In fact in fighting through trash we our mostly limited by aggro as well. Clearly some way of mitigating our aggro would be ideal because at this time all we can do is tank mobs til we get healed by somebody else and if a mob isnt slowed that usually means your dead. For high end druid raiding HP >> everything else for this reason as well as tanking aas being a high priority.

Unless you are just a very inactive or scared type of raider you are gonna get aggro and the more often you see a druid dusting off his corpse the more you know that they are probalby trying to heal. The problem is if we dont help heal in this way alot of times your enchanters and shamans die so you just gotta do it. Sometimes even on boss fights I throw that first heal to the MA knowing full well that I might very well die because of it and still if it prevents the MA from dying it might very well be worth it.

Personally I would love to get a jolt type spell but neither clerics nor shamans have a spell to reduce aggro and it would unbalance us as healers to have one if they did not and probalby throw the game out of balance abit if we all got one. I would still be very pleased however if they could grant us the spell casting subtlety type aa that ONLY works on our nukes/dots/debuffs and not heal aggro which is more of a balance issue. However I dont see this happening myself. In the meantime I'll be collecting hp items =)

Hagglethorn Happyfeet
Storm Warden Prexus

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Sometimes even on boss fights I throw that first heal to the MA knowing full well that I might very well die because of it and still if it prevents the MA from dying it might very well be worth it. [/quote]

Sol Ro ate me last night on a backflagging run :( Wonder if the MA is lubbin me!

Part of the reason "uber" types might not post as much is whenever topics are brought up, they get flamed by others, especially when it concerns balancing raid problems or possible new raid content. There isnt a good reason IMO why EQ can't cater to both types of players, and helping one type isnt mutually exclusive to hurting the other type of play style.

As for raid balance/desire, my only issues are with aggro control and I think some of our healing need slight adjustments(which is also a grouping issue). Why is Spirit of the Wood 22 minute re-use time - group healing is needed alot on raids and Paragon of Spirit is a far better group/MGB heal AA ability with only a 15 minute re-use time - wood should at most be 15 minutes. Also, Karana's Renewal mana cost still needs to be lowered by 100 - its way more mana intensive than CH while doing alot less healing. TR doesnt cut it when you are forced into a raid CH cycle and KR is too mana intensive for what you get out of it.

As for aggro control, I think we should be given spell casting subtlety AA ability - I dont see Sony giving druids a divine aura, escape, or jolt like abilities, and subtlety is helpful but not too big of change. Druid spells definitely have high innate aggro for not having any recourse after gaining aggro or any means to help heal with low aggro other than a 22 minute re-use group heal that doesnt heal that rapidly. At least clerics have DA/DB, and can use arbitration when they need to heal without causing aggro. As for shamans, can give them subtlety, too (enchanters can get subtlety after all and their slow is almost as good).

The flaming of the "ubers" all started way back with the "Petition". What started it? Everyone who was not an "Uber" was repeatedly told the their input did not matter. You can deny it now, but we all know that is exactly what happened. The non "uber" were told everyone wants to be and/or will be uber one day, so we should work on that.

#1. Most people do not want to and never will be "uber". Most of those people have used a lot of skill to get the things they have and do have valid insights into the class, maybe even more valid then a full-time raider.

#2. Part of the "Uber" mentality is keeping everythign to yourself to make sure your guild gets and does everything first. There is nothing wrong with this.

#3. Discussions on the Safehouse, Monkly Business, Graffes etc are all exact like the discussions here. They are not of a higher level. I don't think you put a lot of time into that research.

#4. It is better to get the input from all types of players when proposing changes. Then the class can be balanced accross the board isntead of too a small minority of players.

#5. This board still has lots of great high end players and great casual players. There is not too much discussion of anything anymore. Either people are busy playing, have moved onto something else or have just given up all together.


One more personal note. On many servers we ahve whole "uber" guilds full of players, that apparently can do allright in a zerg raid, but they can't play at all. You get in a PoP group with tanks that make no attempt at keeping aggro, clerics that can not time a CH to save their souls, Druids, who apparently don't even know what half of their spells do. Most of the time (At least on TP) these people are from an Uber guild.

It takes a lot of warm body's but only a few people who really understand how to play to make a succesfull raiding guild. That is why so many of them had to go out hunting for new members to do the simultaneous fights in time. They had the people, they did not have the people that knew how to play.

There are just as many casual players who are incompetent morons as well. To think you some how understand the game better because you have been in high end raiding guild is ludicrous, especially post-pop where AA's are given to raiding guild members just for showing up.

You really don't think most people aspire to be uber? I was under the impression that's what kept the game going. The idea that if you (anyone) played and payed your dues you'd be at the top stuff eventually too. I guess it's narrow minded but I've been in a raiding guild as long as I can remember. It's just counter-intuitive because no one picks Warcraft and says the themselves, "I'll just get to level 12 and keep playing that over and over; I don't want to move on." They're not the same, I know, but that's just what it seems like to me.

Honestly there's lots of stuff to talk about in the high end; we just don't have a place to do it.

Time includes all kinds of stuff I'd love to know how other guilds do.
What different combinations do you use for the trials? Least people you've ever used for a trial? Drop rates on tier 3? Do you find C5 worth it to use on Saryrn/TT or just stick with what you have (IE how often do you resist the mana drain)? Do you think stun resist is useful? Do you go back and kill elemental gods? What have your tier 2 drops been? Etc. Etc. There's tons right there I'd like to discuss and I'm still in tier4, there's another tier and a half to go.

It just feels dumb when another druid tries to post a legit topic and they are flamed by 5 people who have no idea what they're talking about. Actually, I take that back, when they're flamed by 5 people who don't have proof to back up their claims. So then it's just one person getting harassed with no way to counter arguments like, "just cause" and "yeah, so?"

THere are always going to be cases where people pose legitimate questions in a neutral way and get flamed for it by those with an agenda or those having a bad day. However, there are lots of times when so-called ""high end" posts are worded in such a way that the implied intent is to belittle those who don't play at that level.

In other words, both sides have been guilty, both have posters and players who are overly sensitive and who are insensitive.

That is how message boards are. I get flamed here when I post my concerns/criticisms or when I post about positive experiences, often from the same poster. I mean, the choices are limited. There are a wealth of excellent players here, and I think that legitimate questions and discussions do occur. Its pretty difficult to have those discussions about subjective things like class balance, because that goes to the heart of a person's play style, and some people will defend that to the death. But, most everyone is capable of change and growth, as well.

Some time last year, people sort of stopped posting strategies because things were getting nerfed as a result of those discussions. These were posters who sort of led those discussions, and we haven't had much of that type of thing since. However, I think that when we do, it is welcomed. Post away.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>especially post-pop where AA's are given to raiding guild members just for showing up. [/quote]

And your misguided beliefs aren't ludicrous? FYI, I lose more xp on average at a given raid then I gain. Don't be silly just to prove a point (which has no point at all if you have to stoop to silliness like the above quoted)

EDIT: Teri posted while I was posting. I just wanted to say.. excellent post Teri. I think you went to the heart of it.

#1. Yes I truly believe that most players do not want to be in Uber guilds, and any person who looked at the way most people play would agree.

#2. Perhaps my statement about AAs came out the wrong way, you obviously misunderstood it.

#3. Teri is absolutely right, and I do not think I said anything that differs, except I was not nearly as diplomatic and probally leaned more heavily on one side. The fact is both sides are to blame.

There are just as many condescending big header Uber players that think they know everything as there are casual players who hate uber players for being uber.

I am not either. The only criticism I have ever had of Uber players, was the when they would talk down or dismiss the opions and ideas of other players. It has happened a lot here and it is not right.

I still do not believe you will see most players in guilds farming time to pass on infor about getting through time until after they are done with it. If you seriously believe you will see that kind of cooperation, you have not been around very long.

There is no real difference between a Solo farmer and a guild farming, they are going to keep as many people away from their farm spot as long as they can. That is why a high-end forum would not really work. By the time people were willing to discuss tactics for a zone, it would no longer be considered high end.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I am not either. The only criticism I have ever had of Uber players, was the when they would talk down or dismiss the opions and ideas of other players. It has happened a lot here and it is not right.[/quote]

No, but your condescending remark came across as rather poorly done criticism, or maybe cynicism. Perhaps I took what you said more than you meant it to go, but you have to realize how it comes across. Atleast as poorly as you perceive the "Ubers" that talk down or dismiss the opinions of other players.

Off to grab my free AA's! whee! ;)

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Sometimes even on boss fights I throw that first heal to the MA knowing full well that I might very well die because of it and still if it prevents the MA from dying it might very well be worth it.[/quote]

I tend to go the other way and cast hand at pretty much the same time shamans cast their slow (on INC). Hand is about as resistable as heals and if you ask any warrior, who tend to know these things, will reduce mob dps to a managable level.

This also has the untortunate side effect of getting me rezzes about as often as shamans.

I do agree that hitpoints will help with summons. I find myself calculating how much hitpoints I need to survive a summons. If the mob can get in a round of damage that's greater than 75% of my red bar, it won't matter if I get heals. Bloodfrenzy will finish me off.

Consider that a rathe councilman will quad for close to 10k + AE for 1000 and you've pretty much got an idea of what you need to stay above bloodfrenzy.

Of course ... If you DID manage to land Hand before you got summoned, you will be taking significantly less damage than that (quad 1100's are way more survivable than quad 2500's). Getting summoned after a heal provides no such margin.

Hmm maybe you mistook what I said. I don't really mean most people want to be in "uber" guilds (As in be the furthest on the server). But you'd have a hard time convincing me that players don't want to advance. The people that didn't ever care to be like the ubers when Vulak was the high-end are now the guilds that kill Vulak, if you get my meaning...

I suppose there are some people that genuinely aren't motivated by killing bigger mobs and getting better loot, but I doubt it's a majority. Like I said, I don't think anyone wants to just solo in the grey until they shut down the servers. Maybe their guild is a year or two behind the trail FoH/AL set but you're still trying to advance; that's what I was trying to convey.

Furthermore, I realize you're not in Time so the comments probably weren't taken as intended, but the things I was talking about are not spoilers for getting through time. For the uninitiated; if you can get into Time you won't need any spoilers for tiers1-3. You may still mess them up but it just takes practice, not spoilers. Not to mention the fact that there's only 1 time guild on almost all servers, thus sharing information in no way effects the person sharing it.

There's tons of cooperation at the high end already. There's several people in my guild in x-server channels for their class specifically to discuss the kinds of things I mentioned. Forgive me for doubting you but 46(?) servers 1 or 2 uber guilds per server, 50-100 people per guild... some 5000+ people all doing the same thing and you don't think they communicate with each other?

I said before I've been in a raiding guild since naggy and vox were the top mobs so I may be out of the loop, but all I can tell you is that when someone posts a strat on the safehouse for some upper mob it gets like 50,000 views, when someone places one about grouping it gets 500 maybe. I just find #1 hard to believe with all the stuff I see. Hell we get 10 different people a day asking how to recruit for our guild. I just think there's a lot of repressed druids out there that might like to chat about upper stuff and that a lot of other people might like to read it.

Poitez on Bertox? :)

/wave

Sure people want to advance and kill bigger things. Most people have no desire to be full time raiders. I have no problem with people who want to raid full time, and really no problem that they get the best equipment for doing so. Does that make them better players? No.

Do people who do not want to be full time raiders enjoy reading things about big kills etc, sure. Expanding that to say that all of those people want to spend 40+ hours a week on mandatory raids is absurd. COPS is a very popular television program. That does not mean everyone that watches it wants to be a police officer.

Your statement that don't I think those 5000+ people doing the same thing communicate is a little silly considering the whole point of the original message was that at least the druids don't. I still do not believe anyone really does.

If you dedicate a board to high end content discussion you will end up in an endless debate with the "uberly correct" people trying to defend what is high end enough for this forum.

People in time for the most part don't want to help you get through the elemental planes. It does effect them and their ability to farm equipment. The longer you stay mired down in the elemental planes, the more time they have.

They will give out enough information so people will know what they accomplished, but they have no plans on helping people catch up with them.

Do I care if you make a high-end forum, no. Does not impact me at all. Will it be effective? No probally not. Since guilds have gone into time there has been a fairly complete absence of people from time capable guilds on the boards, every board. There are still some that post, but for the most part people are just keeping their mouths shut.

Please, people, don't turn this into another debate on the same subject.

In all probability having another forum will not make it more likely to have new discussions, but it would be fine with me to try it out.

Sorry :) Tried to drag myself back on topic at the end.

Aye this is Poit from Bertox, and sorry for making a debate out of it; I was just saying there's enough out there to talk about and what's the harm of another link on the front page?

Poitez,

You suggest casting hand at around the time shamans are casting malo. Even if it isnt me personally casting hand some druid is always casting this and casting it pretty early (cept in fire where it doesnt work =) . When I said that sometimes I die from that first natures infusion that I patch on the MA while slow and the cheal rotation are being setup being worth it I mean if my heal prevents the MA from dying and forcing an early tank switch then my death was worth it.

Usually I'll cast hand or a heal and not get aggro and not die, at least not just then. More often sometime in the middle of the fight the tank will say get summoned out of cheal range or just get taken out during a heal hiccup and then BAM HAGGLETHORN YOU WILL NOT EVADE ME and I became more often than not a small green stain. However occasionally I survive a round of attacks without going into frenzy and a tank will pull it off of me. I'm seeing this happen and more and more lately in fact as my hps have gone up and my tanking aas pile up.

Thats all I meant, sometimes that patch heal even if it gets you killed be worth it. I wonder though if chloroblast might be better to start with on some fights.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I wonder though if chloroblast might be better to start with on some fights.[/quote]

I still use chloroblast for nearly all mobs which requires a CH rotation. Using natures infusion to early is almost a 100 % death druid.

Normally i cast a chloroblast or two, just until tank has solid agro, then switch to natures infusion, or debuf, heal rampage tank, nuke what ever is needed for the mob.

But you are right in some situations it might be worth sacrifise oneself with a big heal.

Just a few things i dont like about it.
Can mess up rampage list.
If you are to close to the mob, it wont summon you but instead start papa run after you, kill you and afterwards summon the MT out of range for the CH chain.
Then summon clerics after. At this point the raid is over, time to blur hehe :)

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Time includes all kinds of stuff I'd love to know how other guilds do.
What different combinations do you use for the trials? Least people you've ever used for a trial? Drop rates on tier 3? Do you find C5 worth it to use on Saryrn/TT or just stick with what you have (IE how often do you resist the mana drain)? Do you think stun resist is useful? Do you go back and kill elemental gods? What have your tier 2 drops been? Etc. Etc. There's tons right there I'd like to discuss and I'm still in tier4, there's another tier and a half to go.[/quote]

Druids are easily one of the most valuble classes in PoTime. We use atleast 1 Druid per trial in phase 1. I have all those Druids make sure they fully ATK and AC debuff all the mobs in Phase 1. DoT's, Nukes, and Heals are all massive functions in this particular phase. I easily run myself dry on mana in Phase 1. Least number of people we have used to finish Phase 1 is 36. We finished Phase 2 with around 40 and was really never able to finish Phase 3 without an abundance of extra time with less than 50-55 People.

We have Have killed Saryrn with around 48, but that involved leaving all the adds up and DA looting :( . Resists are your primary goal in Phase 4. Yes C5 is very useful against Saryrn if your base DR and PR is roughly 250+. TT is a very easy encounter, with C5 and decent resists + mana song you should have no problem beating her with the same force you use on Saryrn. I sugest atleast 1 Bard for any Time GoD, and sadly if you can get 8 Bards your not going to have hardly any problems at all.

TZ is a pure rape mob. He delivers roughly 1,500 DPS avg. A good and fast heal rotation can keep a tank up. I sugest no less than 9 Clerics and 4 Druids for this encounter, we double rotate on him using a single cleric rotation and a separate Druid CH rotation. Druids are called in when disc is out and after the planeshift AE goes off. TZ can be killed with a well balanced force of 55-60.

VZ is just plain Zerg, bring 72 if you can. I personally dont think he can be reliably killed with less than 65+. Lowest we got him was 14% with a force of 66 if I remember right. Also try to get 6 Warriors and 12 Wiz on that raid as well and drop him in less than 3 mins. :)

The words 'elitist' and 'snob' spring to mind from this thread. And i thought you had departed along with ainmer et al. anyway.

I have asked for a High end forum here several times and always the debate degrades into uber vs non uber...and I asked politely too...

I wasnt even aware any other Time enabled druids visited this board...and like some of the others, I feel anything I post here will just get some sarcastic remarks or degrade into uber vs non uber again. If you guys dont SEE how that happens here you are BLIND. You literally drive us off the board.

well I dont post here much, and only read about once a week
if that...

but anyone else think that Kerasha's Tunic effect sucks...

and druids are one of the most valuable classes in Time, that is true, we have seven in guild and are probably going to look for one more...

however, there is no high end in LODN, so the request for a high end forum I put in when the boards were redesigned is probably not even timely anymore....the board wont get much future traffic ....

Feel free not to read the thread if you feel it's too elitist for you. Even better, simply dont post your pointless uber bashing comments.

Seriously, despite the fact that I dont think we need a seperate high end forum here, the constant bashing of people who try to post anything relating to the high end game has got to stop. Useless bashing of any kind is not welcome here, and the latest trend of uber bashing is tired beyond belief.

Stop it.

Tia

As opposed to the level 52 druid bashing which is so much more productive. Yes its useless, but it is difficult to ignore the disdain some people have for those who want to play the game but do so less obsessively.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>but anyone else think that Kerasha's Tunic effect sucks..[/quote]

Yes, I can't believe they wasted the effect on our Time BP with an effect that is only moderately better than an effect that is all over the flipping place including VT. I have an Umbracite Earring from VT which has 26% cold nuke focus, and I suppose that 4% extra is what my TIME BP should have? hahaha, laughable.

another thing, that stupid avoidance mod is useless, parsers showing it doenst do Anything...

Talk to your local chanter about heal aggro issues...especially if you patching leading into the CH line...

And I posted a gripe on Unkempt about how time focii were completely unbalancing my gear, and people responded about class balancing /boggle...

dont debuff and switch to heals, without clearing your debuff aggro first...

hmm what else? oh yeah shaman potions still stacking with resist buffs? cool thing !!!

Horses for snare ...yep it works to keep you running ...

and casting chloro vs a 3k hitter is pretty worthless...there are other ways to go...if your guild isnt keeping aggro off you for patching the MT there is something not quite right...

hmm sure there are some other things !! but hell = )

Oh and aside from all the sniping and what not, /agree join the serverwide channel. I find lots of good high end info/discussion there, good people even though the occaisional flamer drops by. Not spoilers per se, but things like you have questions about seem to get discussed occaisionally.
Almost zero of the bashing that goes on the boards too thank the goddess.

Last night I was given an idea on the serverwide channel to better deal with Ofassa and Arch Mage Yozz.. I'm a happy druid :p We beat Arch Mage, but it gets messy at times, though we rarely lose to him. Ofassa hasn't been taken down in his current state, but we got him to 2% 2 nights ago. We'd like to beat him before they weaken him down to appropriate levels, just because we are sure we can do it.

Serverwide channel rocks!

Yes, I did Retire along with my GL Ainmer 2 days ago.

It was time for me to finally cut it loose and drop this game that now requires you to use a 72 man raid zerg force to even advance. I lost interest back in Luclin, sadly :(

Im sure ill be back when WoW comes out, and I just might play another Druid. :)

Some people would like a high end forum. Others don't think there is a need. Obviously, there are those that do since they are asking.

My question is what is the harm of having one created?

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>My question is what is the harm of having one created? [/quote]Well... that's pretty to the point. And if you think of it... if one is created and not used, if can disappear.

One thing it *might* do is give relief to the bickering about uber vs casual. Not everyone plays EQ the same way. If some want to discuss PoTime and what's going on there... why not let them? If others want to post about the challenges they are having with their epic or grouping, there is a place for that already. It would CLEARLY seperate those who are reviled by discussions of upper end raiding and those who thrive on them, and if an "detractor of uberness" popped into a thread to tell people that they were wasting their lives, well... moderate the posts :) Consequently if a high level player wants to bash a "casual gamer" thread, moderate that too and point to the "uber oasis".

Gneaus, aka Solomon: "Whack that baby in half!"
Only this time, there's nothing at all to lose by doing so! Message boards are flexible enough that it shouldn't take an act of Congress to make a minor change like this. Just do it!

Quote:

And I posted a gripe on Unkempt about how time focii were completely unbalancing my gear, and people responded about class balancing /boggle...


I just wanted to shamelessly self promote and once again cross post my list. I was thinking about your post when I started working on it.

I can't swear that all the Time stuff is there...I simply don't keep up because I am not in a Time guild. But I welcome any feedback or additions to it from those who are...

Thread for feedback is here:

<a href="http://pub149.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovedruidicequipment.showMessage?topicI D=26787.topic" target="top">Corrections/Updates/Information</a>

And the actual focus item compendium is here:

<a href="http://oldietree.com/pages/focuses.htm" target="top">Druid Focus Item Compendium</a>

As far as the Tunic is concerned, there were fewer items with the effect than I had thought there were, and generally speaking I do prefer it to the Winged Death clicky they originally had listed on it. But then for me this is very hypothetical since Time is certainly no time soon for me.

EDIT: Meh my note on the magic dmg foci reverted last time I updated...will get that fixed again..please disregard the note it is incorrect.

I for one favor special interest forums, but I don't know if a "high end" forum will work as intended.

On the plus side, much of the best content on this site now is in the special topic forums. The best debates I see here about the concrete issues related to AA's, tactics, etc. The stuff that ends up in here and in unkempt is usually more fun but less meaningful, since there are rarely any facts supporting arguments, just opinions and perspectives. And when someone does present facts, generally speaking they are ignored.

My guess is that a "high end" forum would fail due to the slippery definition of what high end is. What is "high end" enough to go in? Will it suddenly be oh a Time guild telling someone to post their comments about something like VT or RZ in the general forum?

All the other forums on this site are topically arranged, and they make sense. Gear is gear, and you can talk about it at any level of the game and everyone will know what should go there. Same for spells, etc. But high end is inherently subjective, and I don't think you will ever be able to get a tightly focussed forum that does what you want it to.

And even if you did, would it then mean that someone posted a "high end" gear question in the high end forum?

You kind of need one organizational principle in effect, or things just get muddy.

For the record, though, that "other druid site" has such a board, and it seems to pull a lot of their traffic. They made it a "55+" section though, so not necessarily about the end game but more about the higher player levels.

How about a 'raiding' forum rather than a high end forum as such?

People generally know whether they are raiding or not, noone will agree as to what exactky is high-end.

soru

I would love to read about the things and places that I will eventually see but am not quite ready for yet.

I think an over 55 forum would be a great idea. I read here frequently and am starting to share my thoughts a little more often, and from what I have seen so far IF the topics are specific they don't generally end up degrading all that much. I have learned alot and found tons of great advice and information on this site. It would be great if the advice for the higher end levels/encounters could be found quickly and easily.

To be honest and at the risk of getting flamed, I don't think most people would consider 55+ to be high end. Most high end guilds and encounters are populated strictly by level 65s. By high end do you mean time-enabled? elemental and up? where in the progression of the game is "high-end" at this point? I think that question needs to be answered first before such a forum would be useful. Otherwise, Oldoak is correct - a forum will result in more flames and bad blood as posts are made there which seem to be high-end to the poster but not to the readers. Its a recipe for disaster on this board unless it is further defined.

I think a raiding forum might be a good idea. I have done most the content in one shape or form, and have little to say in general forums, even thou I read the MB daily. As it was said, you generally know if you are raiding or not, and you always remember your encounters, no matter how many expantions later you do them.
I dont mind talking about raiding at any level. I went out of my way to be group friendly and raid as early as I could with my druid, so I didnt miss content, and while everyone has thier own unique playstyle, there are some encounters where its better to DPS or play cleric lite.
I dont understand the whole uber vs whatever player. I dont consider myself uber, thou I am in a great guild. I had more time to play and had hours that actuallly were conducive to being in a raiding guild.
And you dont have to be 65 to raid. You just need to be friendly, be knowledgeable, and have a good attitide. My friends never wanted me to miss content and I got to do tons of it fairly early.

your list is great old !!

= )

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>By high end do you mean time-enabled?[/quote]

I do, since RZ hasn't been very hard since the last set of changes, there's like 3 or 4 guilds in elementals, and just us in time on Povar, with more to enter elementals shortly.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I do, since RZ hasn't been very hard since the last set of changes, there's like 3 or 4 guilds in elementals, and just us in time on Povar, with more to enter elementals shortly. [/quote]

IMHO, that is silly. Elementals are very much high-end. RZ is very much high-end, and he's actually harder since the most recent change (has your guild killed him since?). Time is too small of a percentage of players. My assessment would be VT and up would be considered high-end. Even upper Ssra bosses (AL, HP, Emp, Cursed, etc) are fairly high-end and would be target discussions and wouldn't be out of place.

The true high end, IMO, starts with the restricted PoP zones, and is focused on the elemental and Time planes.

However, that wouldn't be enough to support a board here.

VT and the more difficult boss mobs in other zones and planes would be a good cut-off.

Spell casting subtlety would be a great addition to druid AA. Slapping on patches after a tank switch, once you have already debuffed and nuked a bit, can get you summoned/dead in a hurry.
HP is as important as mana cos you do end up tanking a round or two sometimes.
Mostly I play a mini cleric on raids.
AA's really help to balance the class imho. And getting your hands on the right focus items, though detrimental haste item seems to keep avoiding me and that stupid ice nuke takes ages to cast :)
No major complaints from me though.
I stopped coming here about a year ago because it was so flamey and whiney. Things seem a lot calmer now though, so I check in from time to time to read new stuff.

Maybe it's because Povar's so old, but there so many guilds that do Ssra/Seru/VT that it's all dead on spawn/overcrowded, so I wouldn't lump it with high end, that's also the way elementals are, there were 2 guilds (~150 people) both sitting at fennin trigger spawn waiting for it to pop to fight over a week or so ago.

That may be so bud, but when a good percentage of the populus can't reach an area, I'd say that is pretty high end. What makes it high end mainly is that you can't find the quality of loot anywhere that IS accessible by most of the populus. Or atleast in my definition :)

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>To be honest and at the risk of getting flamed, I don't think most people would consider 55+ to be high end.[/quote]

:evil: I just want to read the stuff...anything above where I am atm is 'high end' for me. I'm not really one to flame anyone anyhow. The chance that I will have anything to contribute to any 'high end' forum is very slim to none, but I would still love to read about it. Knowledge is the key for me..the more information I have to learn from the happier I am.

by the gods, noobian is still around? thought you split long ago, man.

/cackle's

alyn cross
forces unknown

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>That may be so bud, but when a good percentage of the populus can't reach an area, I'd say that is pretty high end.[/quote]

That's sorta my point, on our server a LOT can access vex thal and below, and even the elementals have a fairly large number of people in them, at least compared to other servers it seems.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>thought you split long ago, man.[/quote]

Unfortunately for the rest of the server, I'm still around.

and you still have more HPs than me! WTF :(

Of course, Xev sucks, Bay is there.

What raiders hate...being told they have no life because they spend 40+ hours a week playing eq; and being told that they are elitist snobs.

What non-raiders hate...being told that "high end" is defined as belonging to an uber guild, and that all non-raiders yearn to join one. That they are by definition less skillful at grouping then raiders, since they spend all their time grouping.

At least, thats what I feel, and have gleaned from what I've read. Now that we've moved to a new board, lets try for a bit of a fresh start, and be a little sensitive to each others respective camps.

Drop the stereotypes. Most raiders have lives, are decent people, non-elitist, and fun to group with. Most non-raiders are great players, spend lots of time playing eq, and have lots of cool stuff to show for it.

And I'd say hardly anyone in either camp wants to belong to the other. People play the game they way they want; it's easy as pie to join (or leave!) a guild.

Yay! Well said, Mappy!

Nothing like a little thread resurection to spice things up