View Full Forums : Flag removal - in hindsight


Rheims
07-01-2003, 01:25 PM
So it's been weeks now since the flags have been removed and level limits put in their place. Leading up to this change we were all told by many on various class and server boards that this would lead to piles of bodies on the graveyards and endless trains as those who couldn't get flagged dared enter zones that they didn't deserve to be in. So how are things on your server, how did it turn out? Did the apocalyptic warnings come true? On Brell things seem to be just fine, not much different than before the flag removals.

Noliniel
07-01-2003, 01:46 PM
Hmmm on KB things are not going well. Trains in POV every 10 minutes to GY. All the stupid newbies are training for fun it seems. About 1 to 3 more corpse in GY than before. I wish they never removed the flag.

bdg55
07-01-2003, 01:48 PM
outside of overcrowding in BoT I have not noticed anything, but then again, I try and stay out of all those zones that were opened, so I am not the best judge...

Qwin
07-01-2003, 01:48 PM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Did the apocalyptic warnings come true?[/quote]

The warnings came true on bertox.

Solice Farwalker
07-01-2003, 02:07 PM
The only apocalyptic warning I've seen come true is - the Ubers no longer have it all to themselves. Oh boo hoo!

Scirocco
07-01-2003, 02:31 PM
Um...in none of the zones where flagging was removed did the "Ubers" have it all to themselves. In fact, it would be rare for "Ubers" in any great number to be in those particular zones.

Your gleeful statement only serves to embarrass yourself....

kineada
07-01-2003, 02:31 PM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> The only apocalyptic warning I've seen come true is - the Ubers no longer have it all to themselves. Oh boo hoo![/quote]

Please note that those ubers you're talking about were hunting in PoFire/Earth/Water for experience long before VI opened up the lower tiers. I'm pretty sure that openning up the zones hasn't affected that.

ccLothar
07-01-2003, 02:37 PM
It opened up access to one zone I didn't already have access to. Yay! /sarcasm.

Seriously, PoV, PoS, HoH and B0T are zoos on Bristlebane. CoD is emty. I spend my XP time in CoD. ;)

Torment: Haven't bothered. ...should I?

Panamah
07-01-2003, 02:37 PM
Well, I think we've always had trains to the GY on my server in pretty much every zone. That was before the zones were opened.

The lesson is: Don't hang out in the GY.

Ellzii
07-01-2003, 03:04 PM
BoT is the new Karnors and PoS is the new DL if you do not see a train to GY in BoT, wait 5 min and one will be sure to oblige you.

LZ

Aidon Rufflefuzz
07-01-2003, 03:09 PM
I think you folks are mostly full of @#%$ ;)

BoT never required much difficulty to get into...opening that zone up did very little.

Not many people XP in CoD or Torment...so the impact there was negligible on Karana.

PoS/PoV? Pfft...PoV was always a train station. Nothing changed with the patch. PoS still isn't a train station...it still doesn't get used all that often other than by groups trying to get flaged or keyed for other zones.

Panamah
07-01-2003, 03:19 PM
Right on, Aidon.

sudawilde
07-01-2003, 05:28 PM
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only apocalyptic warning I've seen come true is - the Ubers no longer have it all to themselves. Oh boo hoo!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOL, i am not really sure what you call uber, i know i am not uber(one is ones own harshest judge), but i will tell you this, i never go to any planes other than PoEarth and PoFire for exp. Catch me in any tier 1 or 2 zones exping please have the closest ranger shoot me in the heart!!!!

Hurk
07-01-2003, 06:06 PM
i found the diffrence to be simply this:

I saw the same number and verity of stupid mistakes as when all new zones open.

There was no sudden infusion of retards that couldnt get beyond POJ trials, and about hte only complaint i have is the general crowding.

as someone else mentioned though, the "ubers" that whined the most, are the people in EP and beyond that are more concerned about you catching up than anything else. Jeez these people sound like property owners near a propsed waste dump site.

princess0fdiabl0
07-01-2003, 07:32 PM
ill be one to say that i was not flagged for anything but CoD before the patch and the whole thing came at a nice time. I was lvl 60 maybe 61 when the patch came out and rather happy that i didnt have to bother guildies to help me get flagged or any of that jazz. I zoned into PoS and harmonied up the ent ppl and grabbed a frog for root rotting.... yeah so i hate root rotting, never again lol.

There were ALOT of bodies in the PoS gy which is probly because its rather hard to train in PoS when u gotta go all that way. You either die where you are or you outrun the mob by a mile and are out of its aggro range before you reach the gy, much less the tree in the back of the caves. As for PoV i cant say im not a fan of that zone.

BoT and HoH all seem rather clean, on average 25 peeps in Bot at any time on drinal, HoH is much more scarce. In all im a fan of opening up the zones, the only thing i dont like is the level cap on PoS/PoV. Honestly what lvl 55 is gonna be able to kill anything in those zones other than a lil cleric used for healing? Imo the level req shoulda been at least 58, if not 60. I mean most mobs are 60+, no?

Accretion
07-01-2003, 07:32 PM
Not much change on Xev for PoV/PoS that I can tell. Sometimes there are a few more folks in Valor, but all in all it's pretty similar to pre-flag removal. As far as trains go, it depends on the day....

Was only flagged for CoD otherwise before the patch and that is still underutilized. Overall not much has changed other than I've noticed the uber guilds dragging their 55 alts to Tier 2 zones now a little more for Plvl lubbin'.

Primero Aventuero
65 Druid

Tils
07-01-2003, 11:59 PM
One thing SoE do need to look at though is the exp given in those now unflagged zones.

They havent changed since they were flagged and we all know that some give far better exp than others hence making some over crowded and soem hardly used.


Tils

Bippwinno
07-02-2003, 12:47 AM
The only ppl who are happy is the clerics who gets load of cash from ressing.

Ppl train everywhere and die everywhere.

ShadowfrostXev
07-02-2003, 03:22 AM
Heya Bippwinno, long time no see! :)

I don't know about clerics making "loads of money" - some people donate generously, but most just say "thx 4 rez" - but there's certainly noticeably more rezzing to do.

On Xev, the only zone where I insist on money for a rez is HoH. HoH commands danger money; with the opening of the zones, there's been an infestation of retards kiting in the graveyard. HoH graveyard is absolutely <em>lethal</em> on my server right now.

Don't get me wrong, I have no objection to kiters who possess a minimum of skill or consideration. Trouble is that too many kiters don't, and there are some who will root a critter in among the corpses as I rez.

Next time I zone in there, I'm going to have Nullify Magic memorized. ;)

SilleyEskimo
07-02-2003, 03:41 AM
For better or worse, I have noticed no significant changes on Veeshan since the flag removal.

ZarrosLivinglight
07-02-2003, 04:59 AM
Next time you see someone kiting in the GY, assume its a train and "save" the person kiting by fearing their mobs. :|

Ok, I'm a bad, bad, bad beastlord...I admit it. ;)

Stewwy
07-02-2003, 05:15 AM
I spend most of my time here, but I also lurk on the enchanter boards with the occasional post and I lurk on the cleric boards (afraid to post there).

This same question has been asked on those boards just as it has been asked here. And the answers are the same, which is not suprising.

You have some peopel who say its worse with training noobs, and they immediately get countered with people saying "Come on, it isn't any worse than it was before."

Seems to me that those who are still bitter about the planes opening up say it's worse and those who are indifferent are giving an objective "It hasn't changed much" opinion. On Xegony PoV is the preferred zone for EXP, but PoS has quite a few EXP groups these days too.

Haven't been to CoD or to Torment yet, but I am itching to check them out.

Autumn10
07-02-2003, 06:01 AM
I haven't noticed a real big difference, except there are more trains in BoT and slightly more crowding across the board(at least in the zones worth a damn). In regards to PoS, I don't think you see many trains there because where are you going to train to? The zone outs aren't that accessible and they're also far away if you're not hunting zone frogs at the zone in or hunting by the BoT zone cave.

akra
07-02-2003, 06:04 AM
People seem to warp through levels and AAs since the change.

I can only expect to see more newbies at 65 and more higher tiers congested pretty soon.

Maybe it was meant to compensate for the burn-outs of elemental planes, who knows.

Stormfront
07-02-2003, 06:17 AM
I haven't seen much difference really. Though, the first night it was open, Carpin was trained to ZI of CoD, but that happened when people were first getting into CoD before as well, so not much has changed really.

Aidon Rufflefuzz
07-02-2003, 06:21 AM
<strong>I don't know about clerics making "loads of money" - some people donate generously, but most just say "thx 4 rez"</strong>

Slightly off topic...but I'll donate as much for that click stick rez as I expect when people ask me for SoE or Pot9 (which costs considerably more mana that the click stick ;) ).

Exactly 0.

The game was and is a better place when folks don't require plats for simple basic friendliness.

Stormfront
07-02-2003, 06:34 AM
I always offer plat to non-guildies who rez me, though lately most don't take it which I say is a turn for the better. There is no substitute for kindness, and I never forget it.

Gwynet Woodsister
07-02-2003, 10:25 AM
I still avoid most of those zones when I can and I can't say there are lots of people on my server so I can't really say if there was a change or not.

*edit - sig nerfed. Please read the board rules on sig sizes.

Baurhm
07-02-2003, 11:57 AM
I think over all its been a good change. I've been flagged for awhile in all these zones and beyond but some of the more positives I've noticed tht if I'm on at a time when majority of guild is not or there are not guild groups open its seems be alot easier to find a group in a decent zone like BoT now.

Yes there are trains....always will be...its just how it goes.

I am happy though they did not open Tactics....I can't even imagine what a headache that would be if it was open....its already a headache dealing with peeps that are flagged during RZ event.

Pikallo
07-02-2003, 08:55 PM
Regarding torment, the zone is generally empty unless some guild is relucantly raiding there because the zone really sucks. Its worth it to zone in once to look around maybe, but after that it would be in your best interest to avoid it all costs.

Pikallo (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=24074)
Storm Warden
<a href="http://www.darkblood.com"><Darkblood></a>
Solusek Ro

Aluaeia
07-02-2003, 10:51 PM
The more I hunt in torment the more I like it... if only cause the zone is empty.

But yeah.. the nasty procs/aes on EVERYTHING sux. And wtf ravens aren't even charmable.

aulerene
07-03-2003, 02:39 AM
Theres no noticeable change on sol ro in valor or storms except for a higher population of players in the zones. Storms is constantly over 30 people and valor is its usual 40 or so. CoD is still empty as is torment and theres only about 7 or 8 people in halls of honor usually soloers or duoers. Now BoT. Thats quite a different story. There are trains there every 20 minutes at the least nowadays. Zone is overcrowded. People intentionally drag charmed pets to the graveyard haste them then zone. Dont forget the group that pulled to the graveyard to fight down there! Its really rediculous in that zone. Unless you can get in one of the out of the way camps its not even worth staying in that zone. Really a shame thats its degenerated so badly there but /shrug theres always the other zones to xp in.

Briljin
07-03-2003, 03:09 AM
"The only apocalyptic warning I've seen come true is - the Ubers no longer have it all to themselves. Oh boo hoo!"

Yeah right, like anyone in an uber guild gives a flying **** about the zones they unflagged. There is no raiding content they want and they sure the hell are not XPing there if they have access to PoF.

Not like it took a freaking uber guild to get into those zones anyways, hello alternate access quests~

Bril

Direc
07-03-2003, 04:39 AM
To be honest I was flagged only two weeks before the zones openned up. There are apparently more people, but, I know I popped into PoS many times, near prime time of 3pm pst - 5pm pst, and found suprisingly I was the onle person there after the flag removal. This is on Nameless Server. Not many people like PoS though. PoV is packed, though there apparently are still tons of mobs to kill, and places to stay relatively safe while you're lfg.

I think the flag removal had to be done. SoE wants you to fight mobs at or near your level. Frankly though, outside of pop, especially tier 2 or better, where are you going to find a camp of mobs at or near the mid 60 level where you can spend a leasurely afternoon with friends gaining even some comparable xp.

Maybe better would have been to add several camps of lvl 60 - 65 mobs outside of pop in the old world zones. I know SoE has been working on revamps, a bit, though they still seem mid level focussed, but I think people simply need choices. The most enjoyable times for xp is when you find a group holding one of many camps, in one of several zones of your lvl, and you just spend a couple hours having fun without tripping over eachother. I know it worked at lvl 15 in Oasis of Marr, lvl 40 in DL. Why does the choice of zones have to be so narrow at lvl 63-65, why does the mixture of classes in an xp oriented group have to be perceived to be so narrow for success.

I think if you had more zones to choose from, for at least near comparable xp or loot, then you wouldnt have even had to worry about overcrowding in PoP tier 2+ zones. Maybe leave tier 2+ to ubers, but give people something other then table scraps

Murias
07-03-2003, 08:01 AM
I was only flagged for CoD before they removed the flags. I haven't been to BoT or PoS yet, so I can't speak for those zones. The times I've been in PoV, it seemed like most things were camped, but my friends tell me this was often the case prior to flag removal. The zone didn't seem overly crowded to me (30-35 people in the zone), at least not compared to the hordes of folks at times in places like PoJ and PoN.

I was one of five people in HoH last night, so that one isn't suffering from overcrowding either. I understand HoH was never particularly popular though.

The one thing I have not seen in PoV or CoD, that most people seemed concerned about, is hordes of people who are too low to be there over-running the zone. Perhaps this is the case on other servers, but I haven't seen anyone in either of those zones that was too low to handle it (i.e., basically no one under 61 or so, except for a couple of clerics). I'm not saying they are never there to look around or whatever, but I haven't seen them.

Marklar Thistleblade
07-03-2003, 07:03 PM
Major changes i see ..are that instead of Bot having 25-30 peeps ...now rarely see less than 50-80 people in zone ..non stop trains.

Also gluck on doing RZ ...peeps deliberately stay in the arena to mess up the script for pure devilishness ..and then have the nerve to brag about it in ooc

Aluaeia
07-03-2003, 08:28 PM
That's not a flag removal problem Mark, since tactics is still locked (thank jesus), that's a retarded assjack problem.

Graal the Dorf
07-04-2003, 10:23 AM
I have not done much xp grinding since the flag removal, but I can say that BoT has definitely been changed for the worse on The Rathe.

I went into BoT once after the flag removal with a guild group. We had worked our way into east camp moving to named spawn point when we got trained. I've never before been trained by giants from south AND north while in <em>east</em> wing. After we recovered from that train, we were never really able to get started again because trains were a constant thing, with people bringing them down to zone out instead of standing and dying in place.

Before the flag removal, I only had access to PoV/PoS and BoT. Now I am soooo thankful I have access to tactics.

Aluaeia
07-04-2003, 11:47 AM
I only had pov/pos, CoD alternate, and HoH alternate, and then got tactics alternate liek 2 days before patch.

GreystoneThorngage
07-04-2003, 11:57 AM
I hate the fact they opened it up. It had nothing to do with being uber, but the sheer fact you had to know what you were doing in your chosen class to get through trials, and to get keys/flags to other things, making skilled players in the higher zones.

EQ has been dumbed down to where any moron with time can get to 65 regardless of skill. Hell i have a 43 warrior that i have no clue what i am doing but click, and hit attack.

To make up for the dumbing down, SoE put in skill speedbumps that helped make sure these tougher zones didnt become what they have now become...HELL.

BoT is stupid crowded and the south wing alone is trained every 5 minutes, set your clock to it...

Tactics seems to be the only safe haven anymore for people who know what they are doing, i dont want to sound like an elitest (spelling) but PoP is no joke, mobs hit harder than ever, old tactics dont apply, and if you dont know how to play your class well you will die and get others killed.

*edit - sig nerfed

Panamah
07-04-2003, 01:17 PM
Aw come on, admit you hate to have it opened up because it used to be less crowded. Anyone new coming to the zone is going to have to go through the same learning curve everyone else did. It didn't take any particular skill to tag along with big raiding guilds and get the flags, or do the quest. I remember when PoP was new and I got into PoV around the same time the big raiding guilds did. Guess what? There were trains! Guess what? The people in the big raiding guilds who are now working in the Elementals were noobs too and did stupid things!

With more people in the zone there's just going to be more chaos. Don't blame it on everyone not in your particular guild or clique being somehow less skilled than you.

As far as the giant trains in BoT, it's possible to aggro giants in other wings with wall aggro. I've had these amazing trains from other wings come from out of nowhere. It was caused by someone in our own group aggro'ing giants in another wing, simply by getting too close to the walls. That one is your own fault, well, SOE's really.

Rheims
07-04-2003, 02:07 PM
"To make up for the dumbing down, SoE put in skill speedbumps that helped make sure these tougher zones didnt become what they have now become...HELL."

The speedbumps, the PoP flags, weren't to address any "dumbing down", they were to slow down consumption of content till the next expansion came out. With LDoN on the horizon there was no need for the flags anymore.

Scirocco
07-04-2003, 03:04 PM
My own personal experience is with PoS. Prior to the removal of the flag, it was becoming more crowded with time. However, there wasn't that much of a problem with people trying to claim all of the wandering frogs, for example, and I have been hunting frogs with as many as three other groups hunting them at the same time. We killed a frog or two each, or made a pet, and killed other things in the area as well.

Lately, the attempts to camp the wandering frogs have become downright vicious. I have never heard such swearing in my life as when I politely inform folks that you cannot camp wandering mobs (this usually after I get a free wandering frog as a pet for killing giants). I point out that where they are camped (usually the spot most newbies camp when they get to the forest zone, to the right of the tunnel against the zone wall) has many other mobs in the area that they can pull, including trees, bears, bees and giants, but I have been told that they can only handle the frogs (sorry, but if a group in that area can only handle the frogs and no other mobs, they don't belong there, period).

Sometimes I get told that forest frogs have "always been a camp." I inform them that I was the first person on the server in PoS and PoV, and have been hunting forest frogs pretty constantly since last November, and only recently have the zone newbies been claiming all of the forest frogs as a camp. That usually shuts them up...temporarily.

Today, a particularly vocal group sent their necro over to dispel my pet frog several times over a course of an half-hour while I was fighting giants. (I had to call on the 15 or so giants in the fort for help....:) Of course, I didn't die, and just evacced out and back (I'm bound there) several times as necessary. I also turned my attention to frog killing, since it was too hazardous to fight giants when your pet is subject to getting dispelled. After I killed about 5 frogs in a row, he (or they) gave up the fight, I went back to killing giants, and they got to kill frogs again. Silly people.

I didn't recognize the people involved, and they were all around 60ish. I suspect that they were newbies who only got in post-flag-removal.

TeriMoon
07-04-2003, 03:38 PM
Adolescence is a difficult time for some people...forgive...

Rahjeir
07-04-2003, 04:10 PM
Great for the people who couldn't get flagged for some reason or another. It 100% Ruined my enjoyment of those zones though, because all the places I use to hunt with friends don't exist anymore.

My friends and Myself now hang out in PoN or Old world zones to relax from raiding. Kinda funny I think.

[65 Storm Warden] Rahjeir <Chronology>
Mithaniel Marr
<a href="http://www.chronology-guild.org" target="top">www.chronology-guild.org</a>

"Failure is not an option, it comes bundled with your Microsoft product."

ccLothar
07-05-2003, 12:45 AM
I hang out in CoD lately as I've said before. It's slightly ironic because it's actually a flag I don't have, yet. The reason it's so ironic is that if you don't have a good group and you choose to try rats, you'll wipe in the 1st five minutes. Most people avoid CoD for this reason...

akra
07-06-2003, 11:24 PM
Panamah, if it took no skill to tag along a raid, then leave it the way it was...

Turrwin Trickle
07-07-2003, 01:36 AM
BoT has become an incredible train station since opening on Innoruuk. There are more trains in BoT then in KC at is best times by now.

Last time my guild set up for a tower named raid at zone in, we got trained the EAST WING NAMED to graveyard. we said thank you and killed it for a rune, but imagine, the east wing named trained to graveyard.

CoD is still empty, Torment is still empty, PoS got some more folks in it, especially at frogs and in desert area, HoH now got some groups in it claiming the few good places instead of soloers.

all in all, it didn't change to much, except for the insane trains in BoT now. I try to avoid this yone as much as I can.

cu
Turrwin Trickle
Storm Warden
Innoruuk

Panamah
07-07-2003, 08:10 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Panamah, if it took no skill to tag along a raid, then leave it the way it was... [/quote]

Not everyone, skilled or not, could find one of those raids.

akra
07-08-2003, 12:08 AM
Yeah, right POJ trials are so hard.

Give me a break.

If I'm not mistaken people still xp in POV/POS/BoT and only the BoT key required 2 groups.

This is not even a question of getting into a raid.

Whatever floats your boat, it's done. So no point arguing about it now or try to find justifications at posteriori.

Baptismo Delacroix
07-08-2003, 04:05 AM
From Karana -

I was flagged only for COD before the great opening.

Teir 1 zones seem less overcrowded, not that I spend a great deal of time there anymore.

PoV was trainy before the opening so I hear and didn't seem different after. I have seen maybe 3 bodies in the graveyard at any time.

PoS isn't overly crowded, at least at my play times (Mountain time zone, US). The worst thing here is the fighting over key quest mobs.

CoD is less of a place for the elite but I still don't think many go there.

PoTorment is usually empty, probably due to the silence effect on the entry mobs.

BOT is the only exception. Everyone and their nephew's sister is there. You can't see the floor for the bodies and if you get up to make a sandwich while zoning in you are likely to come back to see yourself at your bind point.

PoTactics wasn't opened but its easy enough to get to since the opening so I'll comment here. I zoned in once after getting flagged. The graveyard was full of bodies and naked people standing around. No trains though while I was there and I waited a while. Turns out it was a raid that wiped on the Zek script, so subtracting the raiders (via /who all "<guild that was raiding>") there were the usual 2 or 3 corpses in the graveyard.

So, all in all, I don't think the predictions of the fall of civilization came true. I don't know how crowded places like BOT were before. I think people are generally happier about the expansion now that they aren't stuck in 3 experience zones.

Panamah
07-08-2003, 06:51 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Yeah, right POJ trials are so hard.

Give me a break.[/quote]

I wasn't talking about the trials or BoT keys, I was talking about Behemoth, Grummus, Aerin Dar, etc.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>This is not even a question of getting into a raid.

Whatever floats your boat, it's done. So no point arguing about it now or try to find justifications at posteriori. [/quote]

Well, that's what I was talking about and you were quoting me.

If you don't want to argue about it, then don't quote me and start an argument.

Panamah
07-08-2003, 06:52 AM
Bloody Hell! Double post!

Autumn10
07-08-2003, 06:55 AM
Echo, echo, echo..... :p