Can somebody point me to a level list of our new heal spells?

Thanks

Heh pre-PoP, our new heal spells consist of

Tunare's Renewal, level 58. Heals 75% of target's HP or 2925 HP, whichever is lowest. 10 sec cast, 400 mana. Sold in Shadowhaven.

Hmm.. todays patch message said that - New Druid and Shaman heal spells are available. I figured that meant complete heal and others were going in? Was wondering what the lowest level new heal was..

raising the level to 58 on TR is one bug /rude from VI to druids...

There were no others talked about Nic, what do you mean?

The spell(s) means 1 spell for druids and 1 spell for shaman. There is only one spell, it is level 58. If you are not level 58, you still can't heal a group your own level. You still can't heal for @#%$ on raids. You still aren't wanted in pickup groups. But you can quad kite, no matter how much you hate it.

and that changes at 58 in what way?

Racmoor

I came here today to see the cries of joy from the druid community .. finally. Seems I was sadly mistaken.

I used to be proud to be a part of the druid community. But .. this board really truly is just a bitch board now. Someday .. when you are able to .. stand back a minute .. clear your minds .. and look at the posts again.

Does nothing ever bring any (even momentary) joy to this Muddville?

/sigh
/wave
Sorry you are all still so darned upset, but, couldn't you at least waited till you get on EQ today to begin the renewed bitching and complaining and /rude-ing?

Flame away, people. You are really good at that at least. And .. the great thing is .. Verant has no control over it at all and cannot take the credit for that. LOL

LOL no kidding Sunbeem.

I haven't been reading the grove for months now that I'm primarily playing my monk, and I stopped by to find out a bit of info on the new heal. I was elated that druids could finally heal a bit on the tougher camps and all I see is complaints.

This is a great spell and a huge help to druids. Be happy for cripe's sake :)

Actually Sunbeem, you sold out on the Druid class a long time ago. I could care less what you think, since its obvious your a drama queen cleric.

I love the new heal and am estatic that it was finally implimented. Anyone else who's still crying. Plz cancel your accounts.

Tuved, all i'll say is your a hypocrite. You were the first one crying about this heal when it first came out and it was pretty much the same exact thing it is now. Maybe those threads still exist?

Oh well, nice to know another Druid went the VAK route when we clearly need more than this one person heal.

No......I was complaining that it wasn't implimented and clerics got upgrades while we got nothing. I wanted the darn thing and now I'm happy :)

Actually, you need to remember further back than the last 2 weeks.

Purchased from Sarlos Windwalker for 6p and some change, in SH druid guild

Yes actually Alan gave me a job at verant which pays 100k a year with benefits just to shut me up :)

Wow, the bitterness I read here is overwhelming.

ROFL Tuved.

Sunbeam...amen. Too much bitching instead of enduring and "fightening the good fight." If there really is even a reason to fight at all. Which IMHO there really isn't. :)

My grandpa used to use a little phrase on me when I'd complain about stuff...

"You'd gripe if you was gonna be hung with a brand new rope, wouldn't you?"

I never understood till long after he died that it was actually sarcasm to try and make me stop and think of why I was complaining and that things could be so much worse than they are.

Sunbeam is right, but I wasn't suprised. I expected even if the new heal passified most of you, that you'd find something else within a day or two to scream about that was "Unabalancing".

Me? well, my wife and I will continue playing our druids and enjoying it with what spells and skills we have.

/shrug

Excellent quote Blackin...I'm really really tempted to make that part of my sig....would you mind? :)

"Me? well, my wife and I will continue playing our druids and enjoying it with what spells and skills we have."


Again, some of us argue for these changes, making valid points as to why they need improvements in what areas, while others just reap the benefits and criticize the ones the ones that helped get them what they got.

People are so ungrateful :(

Around here it's;


"If you found a brand new ten dollar bill on the sidewalk, you'd bitch that it wasn't a twenty."


Same premise. =)


New heal is good, I expect to play my druid quite a bit more now. Still not really happy with the cast time, and I would like to see more healing options (chloro2, some type of group heal), but this is a very positive thing for the class, IMHO.

Broomhilda, get over yourself already. I can't believe you actually are taking credit for this. Excuse me if I don't thank you, haha.

EDIT: And yes, this patch is a cause for celebration. There are many happy druids out there today ;) You rarely here from the happy/content people, no matter what industry you work in. However, you hear complaints all the time. It's unfortunate, but it is the way of things.

Well being 54, level 58 looks a long ways a way. It's still a good thing, just not as good as we hoped :)

I bet the level 58+ crowd is much happier than those below, basically hehe.

/cheer

Oh, wait a minute, I don't get this spell for another 16 levels.....

/cry

/emote cheers for the BIG druids.

hehe

Actually, i'm not taking credit for this, i'm taking part of the credit for helping it come along. Dont even fool yourself into believing the discussions here for the past month including the petition(which you were against, and argued against) havent contributed towards our gains. Do i have to point out the history of Whineplay to you or anyone else?

Of course you were on the 'other side' of things as i can recall Fairweather(no pun intended ;) ). Werent you one of the ones that were happy with things as they were, and constantly argued against our discussions for improvements? So how did you in any way whatsoever contribute to us receiving what your currently so happy about? If anything, you impeded us receiving this heal(that your so happy about) just like those others who told us whining/complaining about our problems wouldnt ever net us anything, and that we should just shutup and play.

Its just amazing that you all have the nerve to criticize us(many of the ones that were making points as to our issues and never gave up) for what we've helped get you. Dont say you people who ignored our issues, or told us we were just whiners did anything to help bring this about, or any positive gains for that matter. Its just sad that you reap the benefits what others have argued for and what you have been against. You dont deserve it because you never thought you needed it.

The analysis of the entire healing UNbalance is really simple.

This new heal will make Druids anywhere from more effective to much more effective (depending on the interaction between the cap on the new heal and HG/HA) against today's content.

The combination of this heal, the three Cleric heals, the new Druid heal in PoP and the new heals in PoP for Clerics and Palys, will all result in Druids being worse off at 65 against content balanced for those new Cleric and Paly heals than Druids were yesterday against todays content.

Druids have a great deal to celebrate . . . For about 1 month.

Na, we've got some nice spells and some nice AA. I'm not worried.

Jebus Broom you really are the epitomy of negativity.
Im gonna go buy the spell and use it.
My glass is half full right now thanks.

Broomhilda ..

Since the first day you showed up on this board .. when you cried about the fact that, at level 5, you could not make it across the plains without a port and no one would give you one ... that first day when you would not accept the word of others that, if you could not get a port, you could make it alone anyway .. that first day when (to stop your bleating and 'cause I am a VERY nice person - too nice I am often told by other EQ players) I offered to show up that night and to give you that very port you said NO ONE would give you .. though you cried for hours in /shouts and /oocs .. that first day when I went out of my way to try to find you, taking time from what I was doing to do it .. that first day when you apparently didn't give a rats butt that I had gone out of my way .. and .. when you dismissed me curtly without thanks after I patiently waited hours for you to show up ...

Since then .. I have watched you continue to act as you did then on just about every issue that has ever arisen here, or which you have brought up yourself .. and, over time, I have lost any respect I might have had for you as a person. Seems really everything is about YOU. The fact that others may occasionally agree with you .. has often made me wonder if they are either as self-centered as you usually appear to be .. or just as negative as you are .. or if they are just the blind follower type.

The fact is .. I am sure you do have SOME good points .. sometimes .. as we all tend to do if we keep at it long enough .. but .. it is hard to see them any more because they are generally couched negatively .. which is a real put off.

I am a druid .. always have been .. always will be, sir. The fact that I also now play a cleric has no bearing on my being a druid. Sunbeem is alive and well .. and she is still at the heart of Chiasma too. I don't play a cleric because I didn't like my druid. I don't play a cleric because I wanted to heal better than a druid does. Heck .. there are a LOT of disadvantages to playing a cleric. I play both my cleric and my druid to HELP people mostly.

Anyway .. I normally don't get so nasty .. and I truly apologize to all others 'listening' here. But .. personal attacks are his style it seems .. and I can but respond in kind.

/rant off now

I really just hope that people get to enjoy their new heal, and that it brings some of the benefits that most of you seemed to be hoping for.

You won't be competing for a spot in a raid with me ... either as my druid or my cleric. I don't 'compete'. I would gladly hand a role to any druid who is worth their stuff (even give up my cleric spot to you if you are truly good and pleasant/fun to be around) - but not to whiners and lazy people.

The advantage in all this for me is .. I KNOW what druids are capable of - even without this heal .. and I KNOW they are really, really useful. I am glad to have a druid in my group any day when I am playing my cleric .. we just do different things .. and even the stuff I do .. in many cases you can do it better .. and I appreciate you doing it .. so very much. :)

I am thrilled you have all gotten new heal capabilities. And someday when Sunbeem gets her cute behind back up where she would have been had I not been way too honorable (and 'nice' LOL - sweetheart you have no clue what happened there .. so I suggest you don't 'assume' anything). .. I too will benefit from this new heal I am sure.

Good luck everyone. I was just sad to see so many renewed screams before anyone even tried things out. And by the way .. I would /could/ would love to /bonk any cleric who complains about your heals as well. You won't hear this one doing that.

Sunbeem/Chiasma

Hmm..

Broom, just wanted to say, just because someone said we didn't necessarily *need* another heal doesn't mean they can't be happy about getting one, does it?

Not taking away from your efforts, I'd say the complaints DEFINATELY played a major role, that and the threats of stopping payment :P

Broom, you are not a hero, and I am most certianly not a villian. I argued many points during the druid petition days. Never once did I argue that our healing was perfect and we should never ask or recieve new heals. I argued towards the side of realistic and probable over fanatical and angry posters, just as I always have, and will continue to do. Now don't break your arm patting yourself on the back Broom.

I threw that last sentence in since we seem to have a theme of "things our grandparent's used to say" today. It seems fitting ;)

allow me to redirect this a little
http://rob.shiftclick.net/eq/TRFocus.jpg

anyone else notice what i did?

on another note, anyone notice that the spell has the same spell icon as our magic nukes?

OMG Sunbeem, you are an absolute liar.

Heres what REALLY happened....

I was a true newbie to EQ, i had never left Qeynos Hills. I had attempted it a few times but i died and lost my corpse on several occasions. At the time i had saved up maybe 10 gold or something, i wanted to move on to WC because everyone kept telling me to go there. I tried to get a port with my 10 gold or whatever for days and couldnt get one. So you come into the picture, passing yourself off as some kind Druid willing to help from the DG. The night we were supposed to meet you werent on, or something occured where we didnt meet up. I KNOW i was there, but i remember you making some excuse about how you couldnt make it and you apologized. Then somebody on that thread gave me directions to run lefts and rights over a bridge through the woods down the creek, blah, blah, blah. Again, i was a true newbie getting my @#%$ kicked from mobs left and right. So i say i'll wait and try and find a port since i was very intimidated by the directions and the hassles of CR at the time. You then scold me about how i'm lazy or how much harder you had it back in the day, and how you could never find a port, blah, blah, blah. So from that your offer to port me wasnt brought up again.

I specifically remember trying to find you online, in fact whenever i think of your name i remember that incident. Actually, i also remember your personality and the high horse you sat on. Nice to know things havent changed after selling out the Druid class.

So Sunbeen, before you go guilt tripping Druids here for how this place 'used' to be, you should know your not a part of this community anymore, and havent been in a very long time. You gave your Druid up for whatever reason. Its rather ironic though, when we had a thread about the Cleric board and how much they cry, many of the Cleric old-timers talked about how that board went to crap after the influx of new Clerics. Were you one of those new Clerics? Regardless, i could care less the guilt trips you try and throw here, your nothing here other than someone on a high horse that doesnt even know the realities of playing a Druid anymore.


And to Fairweather, i'm not gonna argue with you of how you never argued with us complaining about improvements, or argued against us for whatever reason. I will say i know otherwise. I never said i was a hero, never said you were a villain, i will say i contributed a hell of a lot more to our issues and us receiving something as a result of our issues than you did.

Hmmm....very interesting...

So Improved Healing 3 does NOT work with the new spell, but Spell Haste 3 DOES work.

I was sure that Verant wouldnt allow the casting time on this to go lower than 10 secs....either they changed thier mind or expect to see an emergency patch soon to fix that.



Nothar
60th Hierophant
Healers of Norrath
Bertoxx

yeah yeah druid complain, but anyone notice that the cleric are saying you got your heal now lets have fun, like we forgot that VI hooked them up hardcore last patch.

Other then missing Mask of Fall? not sure..enlighten. :)

WTG Sunbeem....can't hold it against you for a rant that is full of truth. :)

Oh, and i would REALLY love some clarification on this because this didnt happen...

"that first day when I went out of my way to try to find you, taking time from what I was doing to do it .. that first day when you apparently didn't give a rats butt that I had gone out of my way .. and .. when you dismissed me curtly without thanks after I patiently waited hours for you to show up ..."


So we DID meet? I dont think you have your facts straight. And trust me, i would have thanked anybody that would have done that, theres no doubt in my mind.

Your a complete liar, because you never gave me the port.

Nothar got it. i figure improved healing doesn't help it since it's already a percentage heal and the math wizards at verant/sony/whatever couldn't wrap themselves around that. i do like that it's hasted a lot though. with my cloak, it's an 8.5 second casting time

Ah, all the lovely personal attacks and I'm better than you are comments come out in full force now.

Guys, just deal with it. Some people love this new heal others feel it's not what we need for balancing (myself included). YOUR opinion is just that, an opinion. Having an opinion doesn't make you right or wrong. Bringing up some incident when someone was lvl 5 2+/- years ago to prove how great you are or how awful someone is is pretty assinine. Drop the personal attacks and grow up.

No I didn't .. because when I finally found you (in /tell, not in person) .. you said .. I already got a port. Period.

No thanks for my offering .. no consideration for what I might have done without to help you.

I was glad you got a port. I was not happy about how you treated someone who was willing to, and ready to, and waiting to, do it. Funny how these little things stick in the minds of people, ain't it.

Calling me a liar, sir .. is not helping your own image. Sounds a mite immature to me.

Take care .. good luck.

Well, it is an upgrade. I guess NT will go in the back of my spell book, since that was my former 'slow heal' and Chloroblast has been my 'keep enchie/mt/cleric alive NOW!' tool forever. Still underwhelmed due to the wonderful 'priest balancing' from the previous patch (and here I thought I was supposed to be the assist healer), and my main priority now is to turn off the old UI for a little while, figure out how to turn off the damned spell effects since they can't be turned off with old ui, do some bazaar stuff while I have the stuff activated anyway and then turn it back off for when I feel like playing for real - seeing as the GMs still haven't been around for our new guild, we've been working in a chat channel for two weeks now, and whoops, chat channels don't appear to be working at the moment.
I recognize it as an upgrade, but it is not one I asked for (being of the Faster Druid Heal school), so I won't be jumping for joy for or considering myself utterly satisfied with it. OTOH, I am now quite pleased I chose to archetype crit nukes rather than crit heals.

Listen, people can complain JUSTIFIABLE about the new heal
because their goal is BALANCE.

Does this reach that goal. To many, myself included, it does NOT.

You can argue your rope anaolgy ((or money one)) all you want. BUT, don't think it's the only applicable one.

Try mine.

Everyday, Your car has trouble starting. ((loose connection))
You take it into the mechanic (Verant) and they "fix" it (new heal). Now your car only has trouble starting when it rains.

Do you have a right to still complain about your car?

you can cheer AND complain at the same time.
And have reason for both.

Are druids better, sure.
Are druids well off. I personally dont think so....or at least not for long.

Duskwalker ..

You said "figure out how to turn off the damned spell effects since they can't be turned off with old ui"

I have always used the old UI .. and I have spelleffects turned off .. have had since there was a /spelleffects off command put in.

Have they changed the old UI now? I won't get on till this evening .. so I don't yet know the differences I may encounter now that the new UI is the default.

Chiasma/Sunbeem

Hmmm, that could have happened, i'm not denying that. I knew you didnt port me so if you were saying you did you were a liar, but i'll take that back since your sayinig you didnit. You werent on when we were supposed to meet originally for the port, i remember that clearly since i sat there waiting for you.

And no, i dont think i owe you a thanks for not showing up to port me when we originally agreed to, and then days later i'm assuming giving me a tell to see if i got the port but i'm still skeptical of this. Why? Do you remember chastising me for not making the run on this board, and how i was lazy?

I do, and your right, its funny how these little things stick out since i probably couldnt remember anything else at that lvl but this incident, and i remember it clearly.

I just tested this quick, but I noticed this spell is Fixated at lvl 60 for a druid, at 2925 heal.

I tried it with healing adept 3, healing criticals 3, (didnt have much time to test it), no criticals, and EACH heal was 2925.

I added idol of underking healing 3., heal was STILL 2925.

That means, if healing 3 item dont work, and healing adept 3 doesnt add in, and (IF) it doesnt critical, thats WASTED time, and aa points on healing adept and healing criticals.

This 75% cap is BS. They should have made the heal spell a bit lower, so our aa pts and focus items could take us up to 3k or more. This just basically means we have WASTED aa pts in healing adept, and healing critical.


Khrono

Sunbeem says: Does nothing ever bring any (even momentary) joy to this Muddville?

There are lots of happy druids here, it's just that the negativists tend to be long-winded and persistent (*cough* Broomhilda *cough*). You can count me with the happy druids who love the new heal.

I suppose there's just more motivation to post when you're unsatisfied, as compared to a satisfied player who has no complaints.

Good analogy Corlathist )

This spell sucks. Verant screwed us again. No HA no HG. They can go to hell.

I think that Khrono85 leads well into my problem with the heal.

It's level 58.

Yeah! I can be a priest again and realy heal to make a difference after 58 levels. I am certainly glad I won't get this spell too early in my 50's that I won't forget that druids are supposed to solo to 58 and leave all the groups for the real "priests".

I mean superior healing is just fine at 51 when it can take 3 or 4 casts to bring a naked tank to full hps. And by 55 I almost have enough mana to cast it 10 times so I can do the same thing for a tank of that level. At least I have quite a few more levels to get used to the idea of having to use group chat and be worried about some tank's hps. I am sure by then I will know how to manage the agro well because I will have had so much practice with high hp healing spells. I feel so "fixed" now.

Guess the game was only really broken as a druid for people who earned 58 levels or more.

Europa

Firstly, the spell works as it has been described. It is a much needed addition to healing for the Druid class.

Secondly, Fairweather I can't believe your audacity to say in one sentence that this is a great patch, then in the next sentence say that the people who have participated in the <a href=http://pub13.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovefrm18.showMessage?topicID=87.topic>Druid Petition</a> had nothing to do with the spell being implemented. Therefore do not deserve any credit. Credit where credit is due. Broomhilda wasn't the only person requesting changes it was a multitude, it was in essence the grove of Druids.

Fairweather, when you dismiss the work done by people who play Druids, it makes me wonder who really are the ungrateful ones on these boards.


Sedeth, if you haven't read the <a href=http://pub13.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovefrm18.showMessage?topicID=87.topic>Druid Petition</a> I recommend doing so before further making any comments about 'people who whine'. I hope you will see that that document is a considered and measured statement of Druid healing amongst other things. It was contributed by people who have performed empirical testing and was edited by a professional editor. The State of the Druid petition is the basis with which The Druid's Grove Community requested Verant to consider the state of Druid healing. The petition was finalised in April and now 5 months later a substantial change has been made. The lifting of the 10% healing penalty was a minor change, Tunare's Renewal has been the second and substantial change.


Tuved, well what can I say about your love-hate relationship with Verant. One moment you're screaming up and down saying how Druids are useless and the next, you're diving into Absor's lap snuggling warmly in his breasts. When a level 38 Druid comes to these boards stating, "The Druids here are whiners and we are great healers and I'm enjoying the game", it's easy to say to him, "You'll know what we are talking about when you hit level 40 onwards". Tuved, when you a level 60 Druid say that you are happy with this new heal, and everyone who is unhappy with this heal should cancel their subscription and quit the game, perhaps you might want to consider that you are saying the same thing as the level 38 Druid. You're enjoying the game now, you don't care about other people. The fact is, the Druid class still remains unbalanced when it comes to healing. The players who have level 40-58 Druids will still have a hard time finding groups. Tunare's Renewal isn't a balancing spell for the Druid class, because a substantial section of Druids miss out on this spell. It's unfortunate that you have adopted this stance and it indicates you really have little love for the Druid class but only for yourself, just like that level 38 Druid.

In the original <a href=http://pub13.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovegeneral.showMessageRange?topicID=28 741.topic&start=41&stop=60>Tunare's Renewal</a> thread Menlaiene made suggestions for level changes to Druid spells, they are: Superior healing 44 (from 51), Chloroblast 52 (from 55), Nature's Touch 56 (from 60), Tunare's Renewal 58.


--
Kenuon Windrunner
Woodelf Hierophant
The Rathe

Don't feel bad broom people are just jealous because you're always right and have the guts to call a spade a spade :)

Actually the heal sucks in it's current form.

Very nicely put Kenuon

Thx Exedor =)

Very well written Kenuon.

Tuved says: This spell sucks. Verant screwed us again. No HA no HG.

You mean you already put points into those stupid skills? The problem isn't with the spell, it's with the usefulness of those skills.

Anyway, I see a couple of issues already with the new patch that will probably require an emergency patch later today. Perhaps this will be adjusted as part of the emergency patch.

"This spell sucks. Verant screwed us again. No HA no HG. They can go to hell."

A cleric described his dissatisfaction with the healing archetype skills a while ago. He said, "HA and HG suck." Clerics use Complete Heal and HoTs for efficient heals. Guess how much HA/HG help them there? Not one bit. He said he'd probably go for SCR and SCRM before those two, for more mana, and longer HoT spells. I agree, and that's where I'll probably spend my points as well.

On the balance, we are *far* from screwed. Clerics get HG that works with their Complete Heal. Druids get MP3 and Spell Haste 3 that works with their Incomplete Heal. Bug? Possibly. If things stay as they are we're in great shape. If we get HG working with TR, in exchange for MP3 and Haste3 not working, we're worse off. If we're *really* lucky, Focus will get nerfed and HA/HG won't help ;)

-Quelm

-----------------------------
On the balance, we are *far* from screwed. Clerics get HG that works with their Complete Heal. Druids get MP3 and Spell Haste 3 that works with their Incomplete Heal. Bug? Possibly. If things stay as they are we're in great shape. If we get HG working with TR, in exchange for MP3 and Haste3 not working, we're worse off. If we're *really* lucky, Focus will get nerfed and HA/HG won't help
-----------------------------

I'm confused. Someone explain to me what he's talking about. What is MP3 and Haste3? And what makes you think we'll get it and the clerics won't?

Racmoor

Mana Preservation 3 (Obulus Death Shroud, Crystalline Torque)
provides an average of 5.5% mana savings on all spells cast, with the exception of Complete Heal.

Spell Haste 3 (Mage summoned ring, etc.) provides a 15% reduction in cast time on all spells with the exception of Complete Heal.

So, we can cast TR in 8.5 seconds, and get the benefits of a mana preservation item. Clerics can perform an exceptional heal (21000!) Which would you prefer, 5950 crits, or dependable benefits?

MP3 = Mana Preservation 3 Focus Effect (IE Obulus Death Shroud, Crystalline Torque). Reduced Mana cost for all spells cast (Except CH).

Haste 3 = Spell Haste 3 Focus Effect (IE Dain Cloak and others). 15% reduction in cast time for all spells cast. With this effect our new Heal spell is only a 8.5 sec cast.

As it stands now TR is affected by both these effects. Cleric's Complete Heal is not affected by Spell Haste or MP3. (Verant stated that they did not want the cast time on CH reduced in any way)

The Archetype Priest Abilities, Healing Adept and Healing Gift, previously worked on all Direct Heal spells in game (Including CH). These abilities do NOT work on TR.

So you can see why many druids are very confused as to why we ARE getting the benefit of Spell Haste 3 and MP3 on this spell (which most of us DIDNT expect) and are NOT getting the benefit of the AA Healing abilities (which most of us DID expect).


Nothar
60th Hierophant
Healers of Norrath
Bertoxx

Ahh...the terminology got me. First time I saw MP3 and instantly thought of music files. :)

Don't know about that. 5.5 mana conservation vs the posibility of 6600hp crits and normal 3300heals.

5.5 mana conservation on a 400 spell is only 20mana. 300HPs healed is a good bit of healing. That's only a little less than chloro. Will I trade 20 mana for healing an additional chloroblast everytime I cast the spell....probably. :)

Racmoor

I for one am very pleased with the spell in it's current form.. with Haste3 and MP3 working with it instead of HA/HG.

Those AA abilities have dubious benefits on this spell with the limitations placed on the number and % of hps healed with this spell, IMO. I will know more later when I have the % heal part figured out in greater detail.

Haste and MP3 are constant effects I can count on.

The HA/HG abilities will still work great with a faster casting 'emergency' heal of chloroblast or NT.

I'm guessing that the way TR's focus and AA abilities affect it are intentional and I am happy with it! I doubt we would get all 4.. haste/mp/ha/hg. If I had to choose 2 to affect it, it would be just the way it is now!

No offense to those of Nature's Path, but I'm wondering how many druids will still be celebrating when they get stuffed into a Complete Heal chain on a raid. I think many of you will find you liked it better when your job on a raid was to keep groups Regen'd and to spot heal and nuke where appropriate.

Clerics are greater healers than druids. It's a fact of life. Now druids have a spell that makes them much more effective healers when they are the main healer for a group - fantastic! An exp group shouldn't *HAVE* to have a cleric to do well.

So now what's all this bitching about druids needing MORE heals so they can "keep up" with clerics? They're not supposed to keep up with clerics:

Cleric = healer and priest that enforces the will of their deity; healing the deity's followers is the core of their duty

Druid = servant of nature that nurtures and protects; healing is a part of that but not the core

Druid != Cleric, so stop asking VI to make them the same. It's just not going to happen. Yes, clerics are better healers than druids. Druids are better at almost everything else than clerics. Comparison:

Cleric Heals > Druid Heals
Cleric AC > Druid AC
Cleric ATTK > Druid ATTK

Cleric BAotR = Druid PotG (in some ways, certainly not all)

Druid DD > Cleric DD
Druid DoT > Cleric DoT (which only works on undead)
Druid Root > Cleric Root
Druid DS > Cleric DS (Cleric DS is Mark of Retribution, 15pt RDS)
Druid Snare
Druid Port
Druid Evac
Druid Regen
Druid Wolf Form
Druid SoW
Druid SoE
Druid Share Wolf Form
Druid Invis

You might laugh at the invis one, but how many of you have ever been in Maiden's Eye and heard "What !@#@ trained the Akheva zone again?!!"

In short, be happy with what you made. If you wanted to heal like a cleric, maybe you should have made one. If I wanted to port, snare, SoW, etc., I should have made a druid.

~~~~~~~~~

Audrei Talvorus
60th High Priestess of the Living God
Proud Member of Forged Souls
The Seventh Hammer

I hear a thunder in the distance,
See a vision of a cross...
I feel the pain that was given
On that sad day of loss.

The long term problem for this spell is going to be the dual nature of the cap.

It should be one or the other (a 2900 heal or a % heal even if the % is lower than 75), not both.

As a 2900 heal, the HA and HG abilities would have worked on it and ocassionally it would have been a very nice heal indeed.

If it is straight % (say 50%) then the HA and HG wouldn't work but the spell would scale as the HP totals of the players increased, where now our 75% heal will soon be a 50% heal for casters, 30% heal for warriors, etc.

As it stands now, this spell will be just about obsolete in about 3 months when even the casters are pushing 5,000 or more hp.

It is still going to be our strongest heal, yes. But we will continue to be profoundly weak in healing, and if VI's goal (as stated) was to make the game less reliant on clerics to be able to raid, this spell will not achieve that goal.

I am happy to have something significant in both mana/heal and total healing now. But I am not enough of a fool to think that in 3 months time I will still be an effective backup healer on a raid, nor a reasonable facsimile of a main healer in a group anywhere where I can still get experience.

I love it when clerics come here and post without actually reading what has been discussed (not just in this post but in the 10000000 other posts just like it)

I suspect that the spell got input into the database incorrectly. I see a lightning bolt for the icon rather than the heal icon.

We should check and see if Shaman ICH is broken in the same way as well, with focus items and AA (though I sincerely doubt many of them actually put points in HA/HG).

Guys, just deal with it. Some people love this new heal others feel it's not what we need for balancing (myself included). YOUR opinion is just that, an opinion. Having an opinion doesn't make you right or wrong. Bringing up some incident when someone was lvl 5 2+/- years ago to prove how great you are or how awful someone is is pretty assinine. Drop the personal attacks and grow up.

Touche.

Sounds pretty funny since it's in the same thread and comes from the same person who just went off on the fact that I'm a cleric. So clerics are no longer entitled to an opinion?

I thought Healing Adept did add to CH but clerics just didnt bother with HA much?? I thought I have seen critical CH heal for more than 21k, but I could be wrong (dont pay that closely of attention).. It will matter in PoP, when tanks start hitting more than 10k hitpoints fully buffed, cause without HA they wont be hitting for full. Anyway, its very bogus that the TR does not work with HA or HG and it should be changed.

Another matter I dont understand - TR works with normal focus items aside from IH3, but they seem to be excluded to Vex Thal focus items according to Lucy. This sounds to me like they didnt intend for NR to work with any focus items other than Extended Range types. Now if that is the case, HG and HA really do need to work with NR.

Finally, the cap on TR is way too low for raiding purposes, especially with PoP and 9-10k hp tanks coming. The cap needs to be raised level 61+ - either by raising the cap some every level above 60, or using AA PoP skills to raise the cap.

If it works with the focus items it will only be a matter of time before it doesn't. It's something VI missed and they will come along shortly and fix it.

Where is the rez in the above comparison? Can you say that this is the one spell that governs EQ even more than CH?

What about cleric AC and equipment?

soe and sow are one not two. and besides...run3>soe/sow

Umm...who uses group wolf form other than a novelty trick?

Cleric pet?

Divine Aura anyone?

Cleric Melee damage?


Invariably my invis drops on the way to akheva because of undead.

Path from DSP to akheva has more mobs that require ITU than invis.

funny how clerics come here and forget about half of their abilities they use on a daily basis.

Racmoor

I think it would be a mistake to put us in the chain quite frankly. First you have to either pair two druid to cast at the same time or choke up on the next chain. Secondly, if you guys raid like I do, I am keep my party alive, and most eeryone elses party, and the second tank here and debuffing and buffing the freshly rezzed. Who is going to keep people going who aren't the MT if they gank us into the chain? Now if it can extend the chain so clerics have a few more seconds to keep their party going too then it would be evened out.

So two circumstances:

Not enough clerics, and we are healing like crazy and have our own party of casters.

Enough clerics and the chain is fine and we won't be needed.

I do think this spell is great for parties, second tank healing, rampage and AE tank damage.

Yes, you can get Criticals with Complete Heal, but considering its base is 10,500 there's not much point to it.

None of us ever expected to heal like a Cleric. Unless you think wanting an upgrade to NT(400mana for 1000'sh heal), our best heal previous to this new one, was asking to heal like a Cleric. I dont understand why people keep saying this, nobody comes close to healing like a Cleric currently, not even 1/100th of a Clerics healing ability. The gap is even larger right now even with our new heal. Dont forget about your 3 new heals for our 1 :P

Ironic how you mention just about every ability a Druid has, but dont list all the little things Clerics have like your melee hammers, Standing mana regen in Yaulp, undead efficiency, ress, best AC/HP buff, etc. and how you can actually purchase our abilities like run3/horses/J-T-Boots/invis potions/Sow potions, and the fact that getting around is alot easier, especially once PoP firepots are available. Btw, our root isnt better than yours, we get summoned for rooting tough mobs, you dont. You can root on top of Mezz, or root while mezzes are happening w/o worry, we cant. Your is better.

Anyhow, we come nowhere close to healing like a Cleric. Even if they gave us a group heal, which we SHOULD have, or some HoT, we still come nowhere close. Its just rediculous that people assume we want to be able to heal like Clerics because we wanted a much better heal than Chloroblast or CB x's 2.

Cleric BAotR = Druid PotG (in some ways, certainly not all)

For the record, most druids would take BAOTR in a heartbeat. The mana regen effects for lower mana cost, and stackability with Aego all make it very desireable.

Does it have focus stacking issue? Not sure but I don't think I know many druids that wouldn't take the 6 mana regen and 300? hp of BAOTR over the 400 hp and mostly irrelevant (to druid) buffs of focus.

Actually, I wasn't going off on the fact that you're a cleric or that you have an opinion but your a < insert any class > that is posting without having read the thousands of other posts on the subject. You're beating a completely dead horse here

I've got to think the focus items working on the new heals is an oversight. Nothing is more frustrating and useless to a cleric than critting a complete heal. It's like pouring a gallon of water into an 8 oz cup.

Now, I hope that the druid healing abilities work with the new spells. It should.

Btw, our root isnt better than yours, we get summoned for rooting tough mobs, you dont. You can root on top of Mezz, or root while mezzes are happening w/o worry, we cant. Your is better.

Good point.


Clerics did get 3 new heal spells, but they are complete mana hogs. Ethereal Light and Ethereal Remedy are only useful because of their fast cast times. The winner of the three is Ethereal Elixir, which heals the group for 1200 each over 4 ticks at a cost of 975 mana.

My comment about "wanting to heal like a cleric" is only aimed at druids that want a straight-up Complete Heal. Can they realistically give you that and maintain the healer balance? I think the removal of the set cap (2900ish) but not the percentage might be appropriate and not too unbalancing. On the one hand, the cleric version remains stronger, while on the other hand, the druid version is still more than sufficient (since CH shouldn't be landing when the tank is under 20).

The druid abilities mentioned are all things clerics would love to be able to cast but simply never will, since it would add to the unbalance and take away from the uniqueness of the druids.

...

Melee Hammers - eye candy, these are really getting way more attention than they should. Doing 1-20 DPS really isn't anything to scream about, since we don't hit much with an 800 attack rating. The procs are unreal, but unreliable.

Standing Mana Regen in Yaulp - yep, we've got a leg up on druids with this one. But honestly, clerics and druids both got shafted for mana regen before BAotR and PotG, these two classes both needed a fix and only one of us got it.

Undead Efficiency - This is kinda iffy. 725dd max undead nuke, 750 max DoT against undead (My max regular nuke is 925). At the levels you get them, highly inefficient/ineffective. Takes me about 8-9 nukes (more than half my mana pool) to kill a Shissar Revenant (light blue) in the Grey with nukes, and these break root nearly every time. Want to talk about undead efficiency, talk to the pallies doing the 5k+ Slay Undead hits.

Rez - a curse, not a boon. Nice to be able to rez your friends, but we get as tired of, "Can U Rez me plz" as you get of, "d00d SoW plz." A lot of people say, "WTF if I had the cleric epic I'd never turn someone down for a rez since it's just a click." If they drag to you, sure. Ever have someone send you a /tell from 12 zones over asking you for a port somewhere?

Best AC/HP buff - The pros of this definitely outweight the cons, yes, we're one up on this one too. Do have to go /anon or /role to avoid all the Aego beggars though, same way you folks have to hide form the port/SoW beggars.

:)

You're beating a completely dead horse here.

I didn't start this thread, I am offering insight from outside the druid class. If you have nothing worthwhile to add, kindly keep your fingers off your keyboard.


For the record, most druids would take BAOTR in a heartbeat. The mana regen effects for lower mana cost, and stackability with Aego all make it very desireable.

Does it have focus stacking issue? Not sure but I don't think I know many druids that wouldn't take the 6 mana regen and 300? hp of BAOTR over the 400 hp and mostly irrelevant (to druid) buffs of focus.

Clerics H8 focus, it's useless to druids and overwrites Blessed Armor of the Risen. Obviously BAotR > PotG for the type issue, but at the very least druids get PotC/G, and if you want extra AC and HPs just ask your cleric for Aegis and Symbol of Marzin. Hell, maybe if we complain enough they'll put mana regen on Aego and make PotG and BAotR both stack with it. ;)


It's like pouring a gallon of water into an 8 oz cup.

Indeed. Unfortunately, making any other focus effects work on Complete Healing WAY overpowers the cleric. If the druid cap of 2900 stays in though, they should probably give serious consideration to making HA/HG and even IH3 work on it. It *will* make a big difference in the druid's case.

I like the new spell. Is it exactly what I wanted no, but it will improve my healing greatly. Now what I am concerned about is that VI will say there you got a new heal spell you are done. There are still some massive issues for healing from about 45+ and up that still need addressed and let's face it this heal does not do that.

What I find ironic is I am 59 and I get a better heal then what I do at 60. /boggle

Raey

Druid != Cleric, so stop asking VI to make them the same. It's just not going to happen. Yes, clerics are better healers than druids. Druids are better at almost everything else than clerics.
We didn't ask for a version of complete heal as a comunity. One or two druids did, but not as a collective whole did we ask for it. If you look at the druid petitoin we asked for group heals and a bigger direct heal.

Later on people discussed % heals but they did not resemble the new heal that went live very much. People couldn't even agree on how much one should heal for, or if a % heal was even needed.

Verant decided that druids needed a version of CH after examining the problem. No where did we ask to become equal to clerics, we asked for the healing in the game to be fixed and balanced between classes. This is Verants attempt to do so and many druids were supprised by the proposed heal when it went in because none of us really expected them to give us anything like it.

I think the spell is awesome....it takes some practice is using effectively but what spell doesn't in this game? :) While it doesn't make us a better option vs a cleric or shaman, again..its a GREAT start.

Buzz off Audrei, we are weary of this.

Having played with this spell some tonight, it's very nice. Not baring the whole AA and focus effects thing and looking at the heal ITSELF, it allowed another druid and I to be the cleric for our group in DN on the rats and to have a resonable though not as much as a cleric, amount of manan left. At least in a group, it for once made me feel somewhat effective for once in a situation I would never of dreamed of before.

Sunbeem, about the spell effects:
I have had them switched off for over a year. The upgraded spell effects (not every spell, only a selection like heals, DS, group ports, breath of ro, charm) default to being switched on and in their maximum settings regardless of your /showspelleffects setting, and the options to turn them down/off exist only in the new ui. The particle setting in the old UI only affects the unchanged spells and stuff with other particle effects, like water and epics.

Well I got a chance to play with the new spell in a group with a cleric and I must admit that is was still quite usefull. the Cleric Still outperformed me in healing on all levels but due to the patch, he kept going LD. The difference this made was in the fact that with the ceric LD I could still keep the entire party alive even when we had several mobs in camp. We never had to evac and the entire time there was only 1 death.

The only thing I would suggest is move the spell down to 56 and make it a line of spells. Start it at 44 with a 900pt cap, add another it 52 with a 1900 cap, change Natures touch to the same with a 3900 cap, and put one in at 64/65 with a 4900 cap. it may not solve the entire problem but it might be a good start.

All and all though it is still a very useful spell.

Naekkil

So clerics are no longer entitled to an opinion?

Not stupid ones that have been posted here and shown to be stupid a dozen times before. Take your obscenely biased list and your whineing that we're a bunch of whiners elsewhere. If you want a more detailed answer, go look in the old threads. Clerics stupider than you with even less idea WTF they're talking about have posted the same bull**** stuff and we're tired of it.

As I thought - These were not supposed to work with Druid/Shaman New Heal.

Overall they are nice heals with very low aggro. "Very Mana Efficient w/o a lot of Aggro is a nice combination" - Please keep this in mind.

Improved Healing I/II/III

Date Change
09-27 06:11 Changed Durationtext from 3.0 mins @L1 to 3 hours @L60 to 3.0 mins @L1 to 3 hour(s) 15.0 mins @L65
09-27 06:11 Added Slot 8: Limit: Effect(Percentage Heal excluded)

Spell Haste III

Date Change
09-27 06:11 Added Slot 5: Limit: Effect(Percentage Heal excluded)
09-27 06:11 Changed Durationtext from 3.0 mins @L1 to 3 hours @L60 to 3.0 mins @L1 to 3 hour(s) 15.0 mins @L65



lucy.fnord.net/newspells....2006:11:38 (http://lucy.fnord.net/newspells.html?source=Test&date=2002-09-27%2006:11:38)

I love grouping with druids. Ports, SoE, CoS, POTG etc. etc. lots of cool stuff.

Every class whines... get over it. I whine a lot... mostly when I lack cheesecake.

There will always be class envy... get over it.

The group thing? How many of you actually get pickup groups these days? Friends count for a lot.

The ideas of critting a CHeal or improving a CHeal are pointless. Till someone has more hp than you can CHeal for (10500 I'm pretty sure) then the only possible improvements (not that any are needed) would come from cast time or mana cost.

Which brings me to your next point. I know you can't heal for the full amount but since crit CHeals are 100% useless then why should you crit with yours? But then mana preservation and cast time focus items both work for you and not for us...

Personally I'd prefer this to be a straight 2-3K heal or something and then spread the rest of your heals out across your other levels.

If everyone would stop thinking of these are "Complete Heals" (no such thing) then this discussion can progress. As they are these spells are percentage based and though they have caps on them any spell which is percentage based is contrary to "the vision".

In short you have new spell and we have several. All in all this makes both you, me and our guilds more powerful overall. Quit complaining and please lets just play the game.

Cheers.

Hey everyone, the overpowered Cleric thinks we should just "get over it." Great news. That advice sure will help. Thanks Daerv.

Daerv--

"I know you can't heal for the full amount but since crit CHeals are 100% useless then why should you crit with yours?"

Because a crit on our heal would not be useless like a crit on CH. It would give our heal the chance to be even better than it currently is.

"But then mana preservation and cast time focus items both work for you and not for us..."

No they don't. But I bet you still do not believe we have a basis for concern, do you?

In short, I feel that not having the healing AA effect this heal is a new version of the 10% healing penelty. We are being held "in check". I was hoping it was a simple mistake, but it appears I was wrong. I will not be wasting points in any healing AAs, that's for certian. It is a little frustrating to see VI repeat thier past mistakes. I see a day when this is removed, maybe a year or so away.

" Sedeth, if you haven't read the Druid Petition I recommend doing so before further making any comments about 'people who whine'. I hope you will see that that document is a considered and measured statement of Druid healing amongst other things. It was contributed by people who have performed empirical testing and was edited by a professional editor. The State of the Druid petition is the basis with which The Druid's Grove Community requested Verant to consider the state of Druid healing. The petition was finalised in April and now 5 months later a substantial change has been made. The lifting of the 10% healing penalty was a minor change, Tunare's Renewal has been the second and substantial change. " -Kenuon

Join the club along with those that need to learn to read. There is a far cry difference between:

1) Constructive, logical and conclusive petition for change and alteration of game play within Everquest such as the above mentioned document (take the Safehouse Rogue petition as well), which yes, I have read several times and have followed it's origin and final renditions....

-AND-

2) Whinin just to whine. Vomiting your negative attitude on those that choose to actually THINK for themselves, insulting those that are HAPPY with what IS happening and be HAPPY with the fact changes ARE occurring. Not once have I stated that the TR was the end all be all of winds of change. Not once have I stated I'm 100% happy with it and that it was ALL I thought should occur. Instead of reading with blinders on and a warped perception of what the Druid Community as a whole FEELS, learn to READ. Fairweather didn’t say that:

“… this is a great patch, then in the next sentence say that the people who have participated in the Druid Petition had nothing to do with the spell being implemented. “

He DID say that Broomhilda was not the SOLE inventor/creator of such efforts and did not rate to single handedly take credit for it. Imagine that.

There are still some massive issues for healing from about 45+ and up that still need addressed and let's face it this heal does not do that.

/Agree

I myself have no problem with this spell being released at level 58 but to compensate for the lack of healing ability they should make superior healing 44, chloroblast 51, NT 55 and then keep the new heal at 58. That would allow druids to fill in better in exp groups as healers when needed for pretty much thier entire lives as apposed to pre 40 or post 58

Aye, now why can't Verant see this? *Boggles*

Would you like some cheese with this message board?

Boo****enhoo Druids boo****enhoo

Someone in this thread actually COMPLAINED that they could quad kite! Boo****enhoo indeed.

Fairweather: Actually if you read my most you stupid little inbreed you'd realise I wasn't telling you to just get over it I was actually trying to fight past the whining on both sides and discuss the AA/Focus implications. But I guess you'd rather flame. I guess you missed the bit about how I love grouping with your class and listed the various abilities you have. Christ most of the flames against you here are from druids... not had enough yet?

Toomanyvowelsinyourname: As for whether AA/Focus actually work or not well I can only go by what I've read and if the other sites get stuff wrong then that is where you correct me. I stand corrected but make no mistake these new heals were advertised as a "Complete Heal" which means focus won't work. I do agree you should get the AA healing bonus to overall amount healed though but I'm not sure you will since Verant want to cap the amount you can heal with them right now. Any way you look at it though reducing the cast time on a CHeal or something which can potentially CHeal is imbalancing.

Hatchetface: /wave Trull.

It just makes me giggle that you ask for new heals and then when you get them complain when asked to use those heals in a raid situation because its "boring".

well, I for one am happy with TR. It may not solve all of our healing problems, but it is a step in the right direction.

/applaud Verant on doing something nice for us ;)

Saturday, I received the first /tell from a complete stranger (in a different zone even!) since I dinged 50, 12 months ago, asking me if I'd like to join a group he was putting together. I was shocked and amazed and pleased beyond my wildest dreams - I was wanted in a group, and I hadn't been shouting LFG for 30 mins (heh, I didn't even have LFG on at the time).

With a small upgrade to Chloroblast, so we can patch heal a little better, and either regen that makes a difference or perhaps a % based damage shield as a "damage mitigation" (through killing the mob sooner ;) ) I think druids would probably be done, balance-wise.

Clerics could still use a bit more improvement though, after all we're casters, not melee - why did VI choose to make their improvements melee based? /boggle

We didn't ask for a version of complete heal as a comunity. One or two druids did, but not as a collective whole did we ask for it. If you look at the druid petitoin we asked for group heals and a bigger direct heal.


Good point. It was only a few druids who asked for it--at first. But after it showed up on test server, most of the druid community wanted it. And when it didn't go live immediately with the next patch, the druid community was in an uproar. After they got it, they complained it wasn't good enough.

Only a few druids have asked for rez and mana burn. What would happen if a druid rez or MB showed up on the test server?

Well since people seem generally unwilling to pay for rezzes these days even though you are still pretty much forced to pay for KEI or ports I'd be very happy for druids to be able to rez. That way I wouldn't have to be dragged to Cobalt Scar to rez druids or wizards since the druids could do it all.

Clerics would still be the rezzers on raids and stuff due to mana free 96's and the speed of battle rezzing with the epic.

Manaburn is cheesy and more people than you think would prefer it wasn't in the game period. Maybe you guys could get a version that only works on plants.

Oh I also forgot to mention you guys also got upgraded with that DoT stacking thingy. Dunno if it went live in the form I think it did but I'd consider it a pretty big upgrade. You can all go land your mana-free DoTs on those Elysian guys and get lots more free armour which pisses all over all but that which is available to uber guilds.

But anyway back to the heals. I think they are a good thing and they certainly haven't affected my groupability. NT was like a poor mans Divine Light in terms of efficiency so you did need an upgrade.

I wouldn't mind a cleric version of NR though.

I'll say again every class has its whiners, you cannot satisfy everybody. To put this in perspective there's a guy right now on the cleric boards who wants to give us a lvl 54 group buff that adds 55 to all resists... insane.

I don't know what server or what dream world you live on, but rezes are still by far the most expensive service on my server.

C3 goes for 80-100PP. I pay generally 100PP(where I drag the corpse to the cleric and he clicks) to 250 for a cleric to come from one zone over.

Please. Quit exagerrating. It voids your argument.

Also ports/tps go for 10-15pp. I don't think you're gonna see level 58 druids porting for money.

Racmoor

Same here, resses on average cost me about 100pp, alot of times thats a donation though, and i'm sure some Clerics didnt care if i paid them or not but i always donate. KEI's, i donate about 80pp, used to give 100pp, but Ench's only ask for 50pp these days, guess competition keeps the rates low. They still make a killing at the Nexus. Ports are generally under 50pp that i've seen, and rarely see high lvl Druids doing them. Only times i've seen over-inflated prices for ports has been in out of the way places, where practically nobody is.

Look at it this way: it was something and it was positive. Would you rather they nerfed us yet again? Not everyone will be happy no matter what happens(that's human nature) but I think it's ridiculous to look a gift horse in the mouth. It might not be a great heal but it's good, and with the new PoP heals we should be even better.

Speaking of the new PoP spells I have seen, I do think VI could have been a little more creative with the new spells and AA skills. A lot of what we get seems to be upgrades rather than new and exotic things. I guess other classes could claim this too so it's not jst a "druid" thing. But at this point after playing a druid so long I'm just thankful they're not nerfing us(at least not yet). Anybody that has played since day one will realize that's a good thing.