We have some new chest items come out recently, so before moving on to a new slot, here's an update of the older list:

It's a discussion, slot by slot, of the various equipment pieces available to druids. Since it's the "Best of the Best," I will exclude some of the lowest level options for some slots for convenience. I also will be examining the options from the perspective of a Level 60 Druid that does a lot of higher level raiding, as well as single group and solo XPing.

I won't attempt to come up with an "index value" or anything similar, which can be misleading. The goal is to provoke druids to look critically at the various options they have, and also to provide some guidance as to reasonable upgrades or alternatives. I very well may overlook some item; if so, post it here and I will add it to the main list. And, of course, feel free to criticize my analysis and/or opinions, and state your own...:)

The candidates, listed in descending order of AC:

Mail of Judgment: Wt. 2.0. +65 AC, +25 Sta, +25 Wis, +25 Agi, +125 HP, +125 Mana, +20 vsAll. Mod: Alteration +5%. Effect: Flowing Thought VII (worn). Lore, No Drop. [Vex Thal-Aten Ha Ra].

Ancient Burrower Hide Tunic: Wt. 1.0. +50 AC, +10 Str, +15 Sta, +10 Wis, +10 Int, +50 HP, +50 Mana, +8 vsFire, +8 vsCold, +8 vsMagic, +8 vsDis, +8 vsPoison, Effect: Flowing Thought V (worn), Lore, No Drop, Class: CLR PAL RNG SHD DRU BRD ROG SHM BST, Race: All. [The Deep-Ancient Burrower]

Starweave Tunic: Wt. 1.0. +45 AC, +10 Str, +10 Wis, +75 HP, +125 Mana, +7 vsFire, +7 vsCold, +7 vsMagic, +7 vsDis, +7 vsPoison. Effect: Starfire (12 sec casting time). Mod: Evocation +2% [Vex Thal?]

Ancient Wyvern Hide Armor: Wt. 0.0. +40 AC, +20 Dex, +10 Sta, +10 vsDis, +10vsPos. [North Temple of Veeshan-...]

Twisted Nature Chestguard: Wt 3.00. +32 AC, +5 Str, +15 Wis, +15 Int, +15 vsMg, +15 vsPos, +15 vsDis, +50 HP, +90 Mana. [PoM Quest]

Wistful Tunic of the Void: Wt. 0.00. +32 AC, +8 Str, +8 Dex, +15 Wis, +25 Sta, +25 Agi, +100 HP, +75 Mana, + 15 vsMg, +15 vsFire, +15 vsCold. Effect: Heart of the Void [Ssra Temple-Vyzh'dra the Cursed]

Jungle Spider Carapace: Wt. 3.50. +30 AC, +7 Sta, +45 HP, +30 Mana, +2 vsPoison, +2 vsDis.
Classes: Warrior Shadowknight Paladin Cleric Druid Shaman Ranger; All Races [Cazic Thule - ...]

Flayed Paebala Tunic: Wt. 5.0. +28 AC, +10 Str, +5 Int, +20 vsPos. [Dragon Necropolis]

Nature Walker's Chestguard: Wt 3.50. +27 AC, +5 Str, +5 Dex, +15 Wis, +10 vsMg, +3 vsFire, +2 vsCold, +3 vsPos, +2 vsDis, +40 HP, +80 Mana, Effect: Regrowth of the Grove. NO DROP. [Kael Quest]

Tunic of Kinship: Wt 2.5. +25 AC, +15 Str, +15 Sta, +15 Wis, +15 HP, +75 Mana, +10 vsAll [Umbral Plains-Rumblecrush]

Crystal Chitin Chestguard: Wt 15.00. +25 AC, +7 Agi, +10 Wis, +7 Cha, +10 Mana. [Velk's Labyrinth -Brood Mother]

Tree Weave: Wt 12.00. +25 AC, +10 Str. [Burning Woods - Forest Giant Ancient/Gorgul Paclock]

Elysian Tunic: Wt 7.00. +24 AC, +15 Str, +5 Sta, +15 Wis, +8 vsMg, +8 vsFire, +8 vsCold, +8 vsPos, +8 vsDis, +15 HP, +75 Mana. NO DROP. [Umbral]

Hauberk of Harmony: Wt 3.50. +22 AC, +5 Str, +12 Wis, +4 Cha, +7 vsFire, +5 vsCold, +5 vsDis, +35 HP, +75 Mana, Effect: Regrowth of the Grove. NO DROP. [Hate-Disciple of Innoruuk]

Fungi Covered Scale Tunic: Wt 2.00. +21 AC, +2 Str, -10 Agi, -10 Dex, +2 Int, Effect: Fungal Regrowth. [Sebilis-Myconid Spore King]

Tunarean Soldier Tunic: Wt 3.00. +21 AC, +10 Wis, +10 sta, + 40 mana, +40 hp. Level 45 recommended. Deity: Tunare. [Crafted]

Woven Grass Chestguard: Wt 3.50. +20 AC, +5 Str, +7 Sta, +14 Wis, +9 vsMg, +9 vsFire, +9 vsPos, +50 HP, +80 Mana, Effect: Regrowth of the Grove. NO DROP. [Skyshrine Quest]

Rowyl's Chestguard of Nature: Wt 3.50. +20 AC, +5 Str, +14 Wis, +4 Cha, +7 vsMg, +5 vsCold, +5 vsDis, +30 HP, +80 Mana, Effect: Regrowth of the Grove. NO DROP. [Thurgadin Quest]

Silver Chains: Wt 19.40. +20 AC, +7 Str, +7 Sta, +7 Agi, +7 Dex, +7 Wis, +7 Int, +7 Cha, +7 vsMg, +7 vsFire, +7 vsCold, +7 vsPos, +7 vsDis, +20 HP, +20 Mana, NODROP. [NToV - Jorlleag]

Nathsar Breastplate: Wt 1.50. +18 AC, +6 Str, +6 Agi, +6 Wis, +5 vsFire, +5 vsDis [Chardok]

Firekeeper's Tunic: Wt 5.00. +18 AC, +5 Str, +5 Wis, +20 vsFire. [Scarlet Desert-Firekeeper]

Elder Spiritists Breastplate: Wt 10.00. +17 AC, +6 Agi, +6 Dex, +9 Wis, +80 Mana, Effect: Chloroplast. [Sebilis-Trakanon]

Otterhide Tunic: Wt 3.00. +16 AC, +5 HP [Iceclad-Snowfang Ice Hunter]

Vermiculated Tunic: Wt 9.00. +15 AC, +9 Str, +9 Sta, +13 Wis, +35 HP. [Fear-Gorgons]

Earth Blessed Tunic: Wt 0.00. +15 AC, +5 Sta, +3 Dex, +8 Wis, +2 vsMg, +2 vsFire, +2 vsCold, +10 HP, +20 Mana. [Twilight Sea Quest]

Cured Tizmak Surcoat: Wt 3.00. +15 AC, +7 vsMg [Great Divide-Furious Tizmak Warrior]

Small Scarab Breastplate: Wt 6.00. +14 AC, +1 Str, +1 Sta, -1 Dex, +2 vsDis, +10 HP (Races: Dwf Gnm Hfl) [Kaladim Quest]

Pristine Studded Leather Tunic: Wt 5.00. +14 AC, +2 Str, +2 Agi, +2 Dex, +5 vsMg, +5 vsPos, NO DROP [Befallen-Guardian of T'Vyl]

Cobalt Drake Tunic: Wt 3.50. +14 AC, +8 Sta, +12 Cha, +10 vsCold, +27 Mana. [Crafted]

Acrylia Reinforced Tunic: Wt. 0.7. +14 AC, +10 Sta, +10 Str, +6 Wis [Crafted]

Shroud of the Dar Brood: Wt. 1.0. +14 AC, +8 Sta, +9 Wis, +9 Int, +20 HP, +50 Mana, +10 vsFire, +10 vsCold, +10 vsMg, Effect: Haste. [Western Wastes Quest]

Ulthork Hide Tunic: Wt 3.50. +13 AC, +3 Wis, -5 Cha, -35 HP, +35 Mana. [Eastern Wastes-Ulthork Man o'War]

Sun Soaked Tunic: Wt 2.50. +13 AC, +4 Str, +4 Wis, +15 HP, +15 Mana. [Scarlet Desert]

Shroud of Nature: Wt 5.00. +13 AC, +6 Wis, +8 vsFire, +8 vsCold. [Droga-Goblin Warder]

Netted Kelp Tunic: Wt. 1.00. +13 AC, +5 Str, +10 Sta, -10 Cha, +10 Int, +20 vsFire. [Siren's Grotto]

Brown Chitin Protector: Wt 10.00. +12 AC, +9 Sta, +9 Agi, +9 Dex. [Sol B-Stone Spider]

Withered Leather Tunic: Wt 3.50. +11 AC, +4 Wis, +10 vsMg, +90 Mana. [Hole-Dartain the Lost]

Acrylia Studded Tunic: Wt 0.70. +11 AC, +8 Str, +12 Dex, +8 Wis. [Crafted]

Robe of Living Fungus: Wt 0.20. +10 AC, +12 Sta, +4 Wis, +10 vsFire, Effect: Fungal Regrowth. [Sebilis-Myconid Spore King]

Foreman's Tunic: Wt 0.00. +10 AC, +3 Str, +3 Wis. [Sol A -Flame Goblin Foreman]

Imbued Mithril Studded Tunic (Tunare): Wt 2.50. +10 AC, +2 Wis, +3 Cha. [Crafted]

Imbued Vale Studded Tunic (Karana): Wt 2.50. +10 AC, +3 Sta, +2 Wis. [Crafted]

Mithril Runed Tunic: Wt 2.50. +10 AC, +3 Sta, +5 Wis. [Lower Guk-Froglok Crusader]

Gnomish Environment Suit: Wt 3.50. +9 AC, +10 vsFire, +10 vsCold, +10 vsPos. [Sol A -Captain Bipnubble]

****

Discussion:

Tough choice now, and it will largely depend on what you need. The Ancient Burrower was the old king. Top AC, decent stats (nice Wis, Mana, and HP), and a killer effect. And +8 to all saves.

The new Starweave tunic has lower AC, fewer total HP, and not as many stats (but nothing that really matter). This is offset by the higher mana and a great click DD that really adds some no-mana DPS (as analyzed in the Starweave thread). This is especially nice if you don't need the Flowing Though effect (and if you are in Vex Thal, it's very likely that you are FT capped, or close to it). It's essentially a tradeoff between getting more mana regen yourself, or saving mana with a click DD. Also, the AA root skill might be worth getting now if you have this BP....:)

Third choice is still the Twisted Nature Chestguard, which also has it all. AC, HP, Mana, Wis, and resists. Not easy to get, however, and requires a serious commitment to PoM questing. The Ancient Wyvern has substantially more AC, but without any mana or wisdom, and with minimal HP (through the stamina). It also suffers from inferior resistances.

The next step down is a toss-up, in my opinion, between the Elysian, Kael and Skyshrine BPs. As discussed in the Quest Armor comparison thread on this board, the Elysian has good all around resists, comparable mana and hp, and splits the difference in AC. The Kael has more AC, but lower resists. The SS has lower AC, but slightly higher resists on some (and no resists on others). The Kael and SS both have RoG as an effect, which is a plus (and a good reason to keep them handy in your pack to bring out when you want RoG). Downside is that the RoG effect cannot be used to buff other groups; you will have to cast RoG yourself to do that. Perhaps the biggest advantage of the Elysian is its availability: you can hunt for months and not get the BP drop for the Kael or SS quests, whereas you should be able to get the Elysian in a couple of days of solid hunting (solo or with a small group!).

The Crystal Chitin chestguard has good AC and moderate wisdom, but little else. What it does offer is the plate look without sacrificing too much wisdom.

The Fungi Covered Scale Tunic is for special situations where you want the super-regen ability. Not for general use.

The Silver Chains are great for across the board stats and resistances, but the wis and mana are a bit low. Also, these can be worn in multiple slots, and are probably best reserved for the Back, Arms, Legs or Shoulder slots.

There is some nice crafted Tunarean Soldier armor, but it is Tunare only.

Once you drop below 20 AC, there are a lot of options, including some new Luclin BPs. IMO, however, the ES BP, with good AC, wis, mana and the chloroplast effect still is the best in this range. Ironically, however, a druid that is Trakanon-capable is much more likely to get an Elysian BP before an ES BP.

You forgot the: Wistful Tunic of the Void

32 ac, 8 str/dex, 25 sta, 15 wis, 25 agi, , 100 hp, 75 mana, 15 fr/cr/mr: Effect: Heart of the Void

I'd rate this above the Ancient Wyvern Tunic and is somewhere between the Starweave Tunic and Ancient Burrowerhide Tunic.

Monks would probably get priority over this bp, but there can only be so many monks ;>, The effect is a 250 hp buff, plus some other stats that doesn't stack with Focus.

---
Overall though, if I had a choice, I'd go for the Starweave Tunic over Burrower Hide tunic. Maxing FT isn't that hard, but it'll take a while.

I wear my Elysian Tunic over my NWC because the ac difference is negligible, and the extra 10str/5sta and better overall resists make up for the stats it lacks. Of course I hold onto Kael BP for RotG, and if you ask which tunic is better, NWC is obviously superior for that reason.

If I ever get both ABHT and Starweave I'll be carrying around 3 tunics for different purposes. =)

I'd keep ABHT on 'til I was at 10% mana, then switch over to Starweave.

Definatly not number 1, but tunic of kinship is one of the better bp's out there for a druid.

Well, i really think the Burrower Hide is the best with FT3, but as Scirocco said it depends if your FT capped, although i think 99% of druids could say they arent. I really dont put much into the stats, imo they dont make that much of an impact unless you reach one of those 'marks' where you get that AC bonus. Dont remember what the Druid AC 'marks' were that actually made a big difference, so 35ac or whatever it is would only be worth it imo if that put you over that 'mark'.

I still think a Fungi is probably one of the best tunics a druid can have. Its another added regen on top of innate regen, regrowth, and Natures Recovery that can give us a sick amount of health regen. Even for raids where i need resists, i find keeping my fungi on is better than up'ing a resist or AC 15-20 points. I cant say enough about the constant regen, and how well it stacks for us. Great for quading as well. I used to swap it for Elysian every once in awhile, but i realized it helps me way more than my Elysian ever will. After seeing fungi prices rocket up to about 45k, i've thought about selling it, but i know theres no way i'd really go through with it even if it reached 60k+. I'd pick it over almost anything, but the FT3 tunic simply for the constant effect.

Effect>stats.

If I had to choose to have just one of the starweave/wistful tunic/burrower tunic....I'd probably choose star weave just because a constant free 51 DPS is pretty nice in XP groups and stuff.
Burrower would be my next choice so I could get higher hp/mana/save items in other slots and not have to worry about getting as many more FT items. (HP shield + tunic = 11 FT)
And Wistful would be my 3rd...the BP itself isn't that great, but the effect is insane.

i see every druid owning 3 tunics for raiding purposes.

and this is not necessarily in order.

1. fungi: excellent tunic if your wis caped and are able to mod rod.

2. quest bp. rotg is a great effect.

3. *A* tunic with as much mana/hp/resists/stats/ac as possible in that order. AC is great but some mobs will own a druid in about 2 seconds... and can own a warrior in about 10 seconds or less. AC is good but its not "THE" thing.

Wistful Tunic is dropped by Vyzh`dra the Cursed.

I have to say, the Burrower tunic still reigns supreme. The FT V more than makes up for the loss of 75 mana from the Starweave (125 on Starweave v. 50 on Burrower). On the other hand, the 15 Sta on the Burrower tunic equates to 45 hitpoints for a druid, giving the Burrower Tunic a net of 95 HP.

Considering how unlikely it is for a druid to reach max FT 15 in the foreseeable future (assuming Verant gets around to making it so that you truly are limited to 15 FT), that doesn't pose much of an issue.

The 2 percent to Evocation skill really isn't that beneficial from my understanding of what that skill actually effects. Now, if it was a 2 percent bonus to your Evovation Specialization...

By the time a druid is in the area of a Starweave Tunic, it is rather likely that FT and mana are already capped.

By then we're looking for items to sidestep the FT 'cap' (Zephyr of Brell, Boon of Recovery, etc.), items to sidestep the mana cap (+manapool spell effects from Emperor items), and then just piling on the HPs, and to a lesser extent, resists.

Of course this isn't going to be the case for *everyone*, but in all probability it is the case at *this level of the game*. If you're under the mana cap then, of course, the tunic is really great, obviously.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it's going to be equipped frequently for the 51 dps mana-free effect, though. :)


Toodlepip,

Rebecca

Hrmm, there's a mana cap?

First I have read of a mana cap. What is the cap and how does it work (hard or soft, if soft, what degree)?

Hmmm... why did I think this was a thread about Carmen Elektra? :(

By mana cap she means FT15.

No, she mentioned them separately.

I'm curious, too. (Though it doesn't affect me with my pathetic 2812 mana =( )

Tat

hum an other BP not listed
the one who drop from rumblecrush in umbral

Tunic of Kinship
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: CHEST
AC: 25
STR: +15 STA: +15 WIS: +15 HP: +75
MANA: +75 SV FIRE: +10 SV DISEASE: +10 SV COLD: +10
SV MAGIC: +10 SV POISON: +10
WT: 2.5 Size: MEDIUM
Class: DRU MNK BST
Race: ALL

not the best bp , but i wear it instead of my skyshrine bp .

the funny part : this bp have NO graphics, welcome noob look ...

Heum.

2% of 235 (the max of this skill for now) = 4.7 point.

4 more points at the evocation it like to have one or two more levels for the fizzles check. (the one or two level depend if you count the 5 max points by level (pre-level 50) or the 2 max points of most of the skills post level 50).

May or not be usefull when you use evocation spell (BoR?) with a high fizzle rate. Or more wisdow will be more noticiable (and how much).

Whitout someone testing the difference, it hard to say.

Eridalafar

The new one with starfire has better stats than I originally thought.

I don't understand why so many seem to like the Ancient Wyvern hide one though.

Admitedly it is good for dex/sta and ac, but with 255 wis the goal in game now it is hard for me to imagine having enough wis to trade out a 12 to 15 wis slot item without taking big hits in other slots.

Way I always figure it, if I am getting hit I have done something wrong. Well if I am getting hit a lot. The stats on Ancient Wyvern are all about getting hit (interrupts, ac for dmg mitigation, sta for hp). Best strategy is to rely on agro control and get a BP with good resists/wis and a nice clicky effect.

Just my 2cp of course and I know peeps doing harder raids than I have attempted seem to feel differently.

I tend to think of it as a melee thing (but I guess the posts above kinda say the same thing after all rereading em).

/shrug.

pretty sure the ft cap isn't acctually live.

-Symitry

Might want to retitle this topic.

When I read "Best of the best: Chest"... EQ was not what I was thinking about. ;)

By the time a druid is in the area of a Starweave Tunic, it is rather likely that FT and mana are already capped.

You actually think a guild will let a druid have enough FT items to reach the FT cap? hahahahahahaha

Maybe if the druid is an officer I guess...

And what is this mana-cap of which you speak?

Admitedly it is good for dex/sta and ac, but with 255 wis the goal in game now it is hard for me to imagine having enough wis to trade out a 12 to 15 wis slot item without taking big hits in other slots.


I currently have 283 wisdom...I'm actively looking for viable replacements for some of my heavy wisdom no or low mana/hp slots. I can easily imagine trading out a 12-15 wis item.

"You actually think a guild will let a druid have enough FT items to reach the FT cap?"

I have FT15 + 2 from Zephyr of Brell. I would find it unfair to guildmembers if we awarded items on a class basis; you seem to imply that druids wouldn't ever be awarded a decent item, probably implying that we're a hopeless class that deserves no loot, I imagine. :)

If an FT4 cloak drops, for argument's sake, it would be an unfair guild that awarded it to a cleric/shaman over a druid, based solely on the players' classes, would it not?

"Ahh Aidon doesn't have CH or slow, we'd best award that item to someone else" would be an argument that wouldn't hold up to a lot of playing guilds. By the time a guild reaches a certain level and age, I think that it has to have evolved into a pretty fair and just system, otherwise it would have likely folded a long time ago.

Of course, this is just my opinion. If I were to play, and put in my time (more than most others), and then for an item to be awarded to a cleric simply because they're a cleric and I'm a druid - I'd have some serious questions to ask of the guild leadership.

Certainly, some items are awarded on a class basis, that's pretty obvious. An all/all stat-less belt that cast invis isn't likely to go to a druid before a cleric. It's just common sense. :)

If an item is equally good for several classes, then surely all of those classes are to be considered, if your guild leadership is to be able to maintain its respect from its members?

When we award items, we base it on merit - a function of the players attendance, attitude, and the effort that they put forth, minus the items that we've awarded to them in the last four-five months.

I'm sure that you're just joking, anyway, trying to point out feelings that you think no one in their right mind would ever give a single item of worth to someone as lowly as you imagine the druid to be. :)


"Maybe if the druid is an officer I guess..."

My character is an officer in her guild, but that doesn't effect the way that loot is awarded - it's stillbased on the criteria mentioned previously, to be as fair to our fellow players as possible. :)


"I currently have 283 wisdom...I'm actively looking for viable replacements for some of my heavy wisdom no or low mana/hp slots. I can easily imagine trading out a 12-15 wis item."

That's a really good idea; I think I'm approaching the 350-400 mark in wisdom; you certainly want to bleed off the excess where you can and work on stats that will be useful to you. :)


I hope that you're all keeping well, and toodlepip,


Rebecca

Rebecca, he wasn't kidding. I suspect you are more blessed with your group of friends than most druids in uberguilds will ever be.

I can't say that I've never gotten into the mentality that clerics/shamans were valued more then druids. Hell, I have a level 60 cleric as a result. But I've been proven wrong time and time again, and it makes me appreciate my guild a lot more.

When you get into that sort of mentality, you tend to not give your all, and in turn it reflects on you. Do you stop being on time/early because your a druid and don't think your needed, sort of thing. It really reflects on you, as we can tell by some of the bitterness that some of the druids here are posting.

A guild that is going to the top has to to appreciate its players, not the class. When your treated as a person you play better, and feel better. If your not treated like a person, then I suggest you leave that guild.

----
As far as point systems go for awarding loot. I saw the 2nd Burrower Hide Tunic on the server go to a ranger of all people, simply because he had the points. I felt sorry for the clerics/druids and shamans in that guild.

But that's just me.

What's obvious to you might not be so obvious to another. I want a 100% weight reduction bag, but our Guildleader only rolls them tanks.

reasons given:
That's how they've always been rolled on raids.
A tank needs them for all the gear they carry around.
Casters have need.

Dumbsht logic if you ask me. Obvious to him.

Lotharun

Tunarean Soldier Tunic: Wt 3.00. +21 AC, +10 Wis, +10 sta, + 40 mana, +40 hp. Level 45 recommended. Deity: Tunare. [Crafted]

The sibling piece to this is the Stormreapers Boned Tunic: Wt 3.0. +21 AC, +10 WIS, +10 STA, +40 mana, +40 hp. Recommended level 45. Deity: Karana. [Crafted]

The first is made via wood elven cultural tailoring, the second is made via halfling cultural tailoring.

Note that these *currently* are only wearable by ELF, HUM for the Tunare, and HFL, HUM for the Karana. This is an acknowledged "oops", and half elves will be added to both with the next patch. (The fix is live on test)

Thanks, DM. Now, my only question is where is the human cultural tailoring...?

Humans have no culture, ye scurvy dogs!

In all seriousness though, I wear nearly a full suit of the crafted wood elf armor (I made it myself). I value it greatly, and would be very reluctant to give it up.

Lotus, I totally agree with you about how guilds should award stuff. It should be based on merit, attendance and attitude. Fortunately for me, and the people in Crimson Blades on RN, we are all valued when we come to raids, and nobody has an "attitude" because we have known each other for a few years =) It would be nice to start raiding at your level but honestly I do not see that happening. I am content to raid at our current level, which is doing Halls of Testing every other week or so, and running around looking for stuff to kill =)

Lotus, i would have agreed with you but i saw an officer in my guild make an off handed comment on guild chat that was something to the effect of: so and so guild sucks because they award all their phat loot to druids.

that kind of pissed me off and well he can go F' himself. I think druid spells need inprovement for raids. They are underappreciated and have been for a long time.

From Allakhazam:

Jungle Spider Carapace
MAGIC ITEM
AC: +30 Sta: +7 Poison Resist: +2 Disease Resist: +2 HP: +45 Mana: +30
Weight: 3.5
Classes: Warrior Shadowknight Paladin Cleric Druid Shaman Ranger
Races: All Races

from Cazic-Thule

My guild is much like Lotus's.

I know I'll have an equal shot at any item that drops that is equipable by my druid. It dosen't matter how Uber the item is, we're all simply players. My only real competition is all the other druids in my guild, lol.

I find this system tends to work great. The entire guild grows stronger as a result, not just a few select people/classes. What happens when those favored classes leave the guild and take all thier phat loot with them? The whole guild suffers.

Spread the wealth and your guild will be happier and more productive in the end.

Fairweather Pure

I have FT15 + 2 from Zephyr of Brell.

You're an officer of the premier guild on your server...

you seem to imply that druids wouldn't ever be awarded a decent item, probably implying that we're a hopeless class that deserves no loot, I imagine.

Most guilds, mine included, are going to give the high FT items to clerics and wizards long before they consider giving it to druids. Fact of life. One cleric who was in our guild had FT 5 within a month or two of joining the guild, just from loot. Most of our druids are lucky to have FT 1 or 2.

If an FT4 cloak drops, for argument's sake, it would be an unfair guild that awarded it to a cleric/shaman over a druid, based solely on the players' classes, would it not?

Unfair or not, it happens in most guilds.

If I were to play, and put in my time (more than most others), and then for an item to be awarded to a cleric simply because they're a cleric and I'm a druid - I'd have some serious questions to ask of the guild leadership.

/shrug You are the the guild leadership in your guild.

If an item is equally good for several classes, then surely all of those classes are to be considered, if your guild leadership is to be able to maintain its respect from its members?

I suspect that your guildmembers don't feel quite the same way as you do..and I suspect it doesn't work quite the way you think, regarding loot /shrug.

When we award items, we base it on merit - a function of the players attendance, attitude, and the effort that they put forth, minus the items that we've awarded to them in the last four-five months.

So does our guild..along with who would best use the item. Inevitably, its determined that any given item is probably better used by a cleric than a druid.

My character is an officer in her guild, but that doesn't effect the way that loot is awarded - it's stillbased on the criteria mentioned previously, to be as fair to our fellow players as possible. :)

If you think that you don't have more opportunity than a druid who isn't an officer in your guild, or a guild of equal ability, you're being naieve.

Aidon, is it really such a shock for you to relaize some guilds do not run things like the cookie cutter ubers?

"Unfair or not, it happens in most guilds."

So, just just because everyone else is doing it, that makes it ok? Heh, those sheep in your sig just took on a whole new meaning.

"If you think that you don't have more opportunity than a druid who isn't an officer in your guild, or a guild of equal ability, you're being naieve."

I believe guild leadership plays a significant role in how a guild thinks and works as a whole. The people who run your guild and tell you what you have the right/access to in reguards to drops, have a very one-way attitude. Other guilds think and run much differently due to guild leadership that does not follow the norm. Neither is really better than the other, just 2 different views and outlooks on the game of EQ. I happen to want a valid shot at any and all items, therefore I sought out a guild of like-minded people, looking first to the leaders and thier attitudes towards the game. As long as you can justify not having access to paticular loot, then all is well within your guild too.

Guild leaders that give themselves the best loot at all times generally don't have guilds for very long.

Fairweather Pure

If your guild gave a FT item to a relatively new cleric over a druid who has shown loyalty to the guild and wanted it, then I think your guild has problems.

------
Heres a breakdown of the FT we have for priest classes in the guild.

Druid - 12 FT ( Shield of Ssra(6), White Dragonscale Boots (2), Choker of the Wretched(1) + Boon of Recovery (3))
Cleric - 11 FT (Ancient Burrower Hide Tunic (5), Intraer Insignia (2), Boots of Flowing Slime (3) )
Druid - 9 FT (Shield of Ssra (6), Boots of Flowing Slime (3) )
Druid - 8 FT (Shield of Ssra (6), White Dragonscale Boots (2) )
Cleric - 5 FT (White Dragonscale Boots(2), Itraer Insignia (2), 7th Shawl (1)
Cleric - 4 FT (Shard of Unfathamable Deapths (3), Choker of the Wrethced (1)
Cleric - 4 FT (White Dragonscale Boots, Choker of the Wratched, Eye of Cazic Thule)
Cleric - 4 FT (8th Shawl (2), White Dragonscale Boots (2)
Cleric - 3 FT (Boots of Flowing Slime)
Cleric - 3 FT (Boots of Flowing Slime)
Druid - 3 FT (Geomantic Focus)
Shaman - 2 FT (Ring of Living Ore)
Shaman - 1 FT (Earring of Fond memories)
Druid - 1 FT (Choker of the Wretched)

--- All long term players. In fact the 3rd highest FT belongs to me, and I've only been in the guild 5 months, a druid, no less. Of that list, I'm actually probably the newest member.

Granted there are guilds that equip their clerics first. But that guild must be filled with a lot of discontent then.

There is favortism in guilds, that can't be contested. Assuming a guild is not based on some sort of DKP system, the leader will usually award loots, at which point several factors could influence him.

Old guilds have established cliques, usually the officers are the most powerful example. Next comes possible discrimination, always a factor, it could be prejudice towards someones class, personality, and so on. Many times loot is awarded in an attempt to court a wanted trial, or to preserve a powerful member. Anyone influenced by that final factor is really only creating a worse problem by creating high expectations that will eventually come to diminishing returns and that person (unless particularly loyal) will deguild.

Frankly, FT items will better help a guild in one of the two departments that they are more lacking in: Healing and Offense. Although, I would still award based on merit. Otherwise you are, once again, creating high expectations for those favored, while alienating a large portion of your guild.

A little off-topic here, but I would seriously like to see a list of items that you wear, Lotusfly that will put your wisdom between 350-400. Not doubting your word, but looking at your magelo profiles, the highest wisdom configuration I can come up with gives you 176 wisdom in items... assuming you started with around 110 or so, it still leaves you only at 286 or so total. I dont know of any items that would put anyone's wisdom over 350 at one time without enchanter buffs. Even 300 seems a reach.

Granted, my gear pales in comparison to many druids and looking at your AA points, it is obvious you are in a serious raiding guild that will have lots of FT gear to distribute daily. That could be another reason you are capped. Other guilds (read 90 percent of them) dont see that many FT items and are more likely to view them as cherished comodities than a guild that sees a few drop daily.

/em points Kobara at Lotusfly's magelo profile linked in her sig.

I know I've drooled at it more than once. =) Not that I can complain toooo much.

The last time that I did a toy wisdom check was a good few months ago; I've changed a lot of items since then :) My standard raid wisdom was 323 + KEI on top of that = just slightly under 350.

Aidon:

What can I say? It sounds as if you're in a bit of a pickle. Perhaps come to Prexus and play with us? :)

I should stress that my arguments about fairness and the awarding of items in exchange for members efforts are independant of my character's rank within my guild. It's just advice from one druid to another.

To use my own example, druids in my guild (who are not officers) get awarded items based on merit, attendance and attitude the same as everyone else. Officers don't get special treatment; if anything, the guild leaders get fewer items than some of the regular members - as is pointed out regularly by some of the guild. :)

I imagine the situation is a little different in some mid-tier guilds, where every loot call is a real fight between different people, because of the rarity of the 'super items'. The members of most guilds I've seen at the highest level are lucky in that there are so many great items coming into the guild on a regular basis, that loot arguments, bias and unfair awarding based on class are thankfully not a concern - making a broad generalisation.

It would be a very bad move for a guild's leadership to disrespect certain classes heavily. Tailor admission so that you get the right class balance: yes. Disrespect those within your guild based on their class: a definite no.

By giving, for example, a cleric the first shot at an FT4 cloak over a druid simply because they're a cleric (when the item is equally useful to both), you're putting out the message that the efforts of the druids aren't as important as the clerics.

Continue that over to enough classes, and you'll evolve to the point at which you don't have enough of your less-favoured classes, and your guild members will all fear for their own 'level of equity' in the leaders' eyes, if they are not seen to be treated equally.

In the interests of guild fairness, respect to all members, and just being plain adult, the majority of end-game guilds that I've had experience with all treat their members suitably.

The stress seems to occur in the mid-tier range of guilds, in those which I am in contact with, in which good items are uncommon - there's a lot of squabbling over them, and people get disrespected or become the victims of class bias. Those guilds tend to last a year or so and then collapse, as the lack of respect and other unfavourable forces pull the guild apart.

End-game guilds, just by being around so long and by being able to get lots of great stuff for their members, seem to avoid a lot of those problems.

Of course, these are just generalisations, and opinions based on the end-game guilds that I've seen. I'd hope, for everyone's sake, that you're treated well and equally in your guilds, and that you're all enjoying your time and earning the respect of your peers - as I'm sure most are, to some extent. :)


Fare thee well, and toodlepip,

Rebecca

I still have never seen any item for a druid that had a better ability than Rotg. The only Item that comes close is burrower. And if you own a burrower your going to swap every 15 mins. The other stats are pretty non essential unless you have a severe deficiancy in some key area. Maybe ac or free damage. Depends on you.

As far as i know there is still only 1 item with an effect better than rotg and that is the sprinkler. A potential 9100 hps healed for 1 click per 15 mins.

I know many wizards with the rend robe, swapping and standing is tedious. Hell just swapping is tedious thats why melle dont do it anymore, and also why most rend robes are in the backpack most of the time.

For my part any rotg BP is in the top 3 for shure. And it is widely availiable, Any druid who has one should not make a BP upgrade a priority.

Take care of yourselves

Grumpyleaf

Depends what you mean by "better". In a different sense, the Lumi staff is right up there. Lets us get nice XP, doing 184 x 12 dmg per minute (assuming 3 clicks), while regenning mana from FotH/MotH/MotS/PotG/C2/C3/etc. I alternate FoK and Lumi when I quad, so I'm getting about 2 clicks a minute in. That's a LOT of damage just in the 2.5 levels I've had it.

I prefer intersting groups (went to Chardok prince with 8 peeps total tonight, that was a blast!), but when they aren't available, quadding some nice XP is fun! And the Lumi contributes a lot.

RotG is great for AE type encounters, but other than that is not really necessary, only one or two tanks are taking damage, and that's what the clerics are for. And you can't use /tgb with it =(

Don't get me wrong, I'd grab a RotG BP in a New York minute, but it's effect is situational, just like all the other neat clickies.

Tat

Lets take a look at some of the items you have, Rebecca, and I'll tell you what would happen to them in my guild.


Blood Veil of the Shissar: Almost certainly going to an enchanter

Rowyl's Armguards: Probably still going to a druid since we can't wear Onyx..but not necessarily.

Gauntlets of Dragon Slaying: "Will never be given to a caster class..."

Burrower Hide Tunic: Probably go to a cleric or shaman first. Wouldn't be surprised to see it go to a paladin even.

Cloak of the Sky: Goes to Shaman and Clerics. One druid in the guild has one, mainly because she hadn't gotten any NToV loot yet and her gear was lacking at the time.

Belt of Dwarf Slaying: Goes to melee.

White Dragon Scale Boots: One item that actually goes to druids. Or went to druids. We haven't been killing tormax much since our old loot officer basically stopped playing (old loot officer was a druid...we actually stood a chance at loots then)

Sprinkler of the Spirits: Rewarded to clerics who don't bother to get their epic.

Orb of the Infinite Void: Not obtained on guild raids really since we don't bother killing giants who don't have to be killed.

Geomantic Focus: I think the one or two we've looted have gone to int casters, not really sure on this one

ST key: Aidon tells the guild, "You know, I'd really like to play my own character here instead of playing <cleric whom I have access to>. Guild tells Aidon, "Why the hell would we give an ST key to a druid. There is nothing for you get here."

My what a lovely picture you have painted of our guild, Aid ;)

Edit- I dont really think my gear was lacking back then, just click my name in the sig and see :p

My what a lovely picture you have painted of our guild, Aid

Unfortunately an accurate picture though Aeri /shrug. And our guild is typical in that regard.

I dont really think my gear was lacking back then, just click my name in the sig and see

=P Recall, this was before you got your FT 3, and chardok stuff Aeri.

Nah, I got my FT before but anywho, better places to discuss my order of aquiring gear :p

Further consideration of what was originally posted, brought the conclusion that this board wasn't the place.

Heres the prolem with Rotg BP vs others. Its addicting. Whether you are in combat or not and you have a rotg BP the effect is ON. Now if you own one you feel naked without it and when you switch it out for somereason you are thinking about having it on. Its basically the same for FT items, whther you are at FM or not is fairly inconcequntial. When you take a FT item off the oporitunity cost is very high.

The causal benifit of Rotg and FT is immense. U spend mana much more freely and dont worry about low mana with FT. With regen you tend to not hael yourself and you will take incendental aggro damage without worrying, such as nuking early.

Given the purpose of this thread I have to say the best BP any Rotg BP with Tunic 2. Why? because there is no other source for free rotg.

Grumpyleaf

Lotusfly, if it's not too much trouble, how much FT do the other druids in your guild have?

Eldin, you can go to the KTF website and check out the equipment of other druids in LF's guild.

Aidon, no the others don't have FT15. :p

Anyway, Wistful Tunic of the Void, effect: Heart of the Void - what is this effect? It has a 2.5 second casting time.

Heart of the void : 225hps, 40 magic, 40 cold ressist buff, doesnt stack with focus.

After a cursory glance at the Druids in your guild, Lotus...

It seems to me that you have a very very skewed view of your own guild.

You are light years ahead of most of them (if not all of them) gear-wise.

Granted, I was just giving it a once over, I could be wrong.

Pardonnez moi? :)

My comments about my guild are in terms of fairness of the loot awarding, and how I hope that you all have the same. That wasn't evident from me saying it over and over? :)

I need to work on my clarity of expression, if not. ;)

My comments are concerning the fact that all loot needs to awarded fairly; this happens in my guild too, as an aside. :)

Specifically, within my guild, there's only one active druid (Lotusfly) that makes 100% of raids, the others come in shifts - here for a few raids every now and again. When you look at the roster, that's obvious.

When those that raid do ask for loot, they're treated on precisely equal footing to all other people that want the loot - clerics, shadowknights, monks... anyone.

Being a druid that makes 100% of raids, Lotusfly is rewarded for her effort. That's the same for all guild members that raid, and usually officers take less loot than the members, because we prefer it that way. If you're looking through my guild roster, take a look at our constant raiders: Nakilos the Enchanter, Darodar the Warrior, Dunatis the Wizard, Nazul the Necromancer, etc. etc.

All these guys are just regular members, they're not officers - because they make a lot of effort and attend, they have as good or better loot than the guild's officers. They're all regular members, but they're constant people, dependable, and turn up for _everything_, so they have the best items. Independant of their class, officer status, etc..

I should know! There are four of us that award items to the guild; never once has officer status or class made an influence in the decision (unless it's, say, a druid asking for a statless invis belt heh). We find out who's asking for it, pull up a list of the items they've been awarded in the last few months, weigh that against their attendance (which we track) and then compare the applicants attendance to the loot awarded. Totally fair, and it makes for a great guild.

I'm not sure if I can make myself any more clear without tirelessly repeating myself; if you cannot read my message I'm not sure what else I can do to spell it out. :)

I'd hope you're all in fair guilds that see no class bias. It's not healthy in the slightest to bias against certain 'undesirable' classes. If you start putting druids on the low priority list, what then? Shadowknights? Rangers? Enchanters? Paladins? In order to foster a healthy atmosphere, and to keep your guild on top, it would be a very foolish leadership that awarded loot to someone's detriment based on class.

They'd just be asking to be put out of the top slot due to inequities and feeling of worthlessness. It's not good for the guild, nor is good for the success of the players as a whole.

I think I'm beginning to repeat myself. :)

Is my message not clear? The fact that I would advise you all to seek out guilds which treat their members fairly, as my guild enjoys, is very much independant to my character's equipment - she's got great equipment compared to other druids because she attends 10x more raids than the druids in my guild. :) Officer status means literally zero, as does your class, when it comes to awarding loot -as it should. That's my message. Draw a few underlines there at your own convenience for emphasis. :)

Any other way would be an atrocious atmosphere. I can't imagine anyone in my guild taking someone telling them "I'm sorry, you can't have that item - even if it's the best item in its slot for you - simply because you're not the right class". It's asking for your guild to topple, and is most unwise of the leadership to pursue such a method. It's not adult, it's rude, it's nothing you should have to put up with.

Running and making a guild successful specifically requires that your members all feel as if they are being treated well and fairly, in order that they keep showing up and keeping your guild successful, pushing onwards to the Emperor, Seru, VT and so on. If you fundamentally say to your membership "Some of you are more important than others' classes", it's like building a house on swampy foundations - it can't last long.

That message, once again for those whom may have missed it, is *distinct* to my character's equipment - she's the only constant druid, and like all our constant raiders, has the reward to show for it.

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm talking to myself here? Hehe.


Take care of yourself, everyone. If you're not having fun, change it. It's an attitude that will serve you well in all walks of life. :)


Toodlepip,

Rebecca

I just got the Wistful Tunic of the Void today, our first Cursed kill with just 39 people :) . It's nice and has the best stats out of all the known "Druid" useable tunics out there IMO. The Burrower Hide Tunic is better with the FT, but stat wise, this is better then anything we can wear. I would rather have this anyways considering you can potentially get to the FT cap through other items. Anyways, awesome Tunic :) .

Starweave, easily. It's no rend robe (effect wise), but it still owns all the other choices imo. Manafree damage~

<chuckle>

If it weren't for that pesky no transferring gear between servers rule, I'd move to Prexus and join KTF just to test the theory =P I make alot of raids =D

I agree that the effect of Starweave is nice, but stat/attribute wise, the Wistful Tunic is just plain awesome :) . Oh, the effect is a 250 hp +40svm/c buff that stacks with everything aside from Focus.

Wistful Tunic of the Void

http://fohguild.org/news/SWTVK.jpg

Ancient Burrower Hide Tunic

Guess there are trade off for everything here.

Here is a good link to all of the boss mob Sol loot table.SOL LOOT (http://www.darkwind-guild.com/sol/)

The STA/HP on wistful is pretty nice, but the most important stat is +mana which starweave easily beats wistful, and everything else, in.

For burrowerhide, it's nice if your guild lets you have this, but really, why would they if cleric_03834 that makes half the raids you do needs FT? If there aren't enough mod rods to go around who gets them, the druid who can't even heal 2k with it or the cleric that can heal over 12k with it?

Just because your guild is completely unfair and biased on loot, don't assume all the other guilds are that way.

On Brell:

Gauntlets of Dragon Slaying: "Will never be given to a caster class..."

Quite a few casters have them.

Burrower Hide Tunic: Probably go to a cleric or shaman first. Wouldn't be surprised to see it go to a paladin even.

Most all have gone to druids so far.

Cloak of the Sky: Goes to Shaman and Clerics. One druid in the guild has one, mainly because she hadn't gotten any NToV loot yet and her gear was lacking at the time.

pretty even distribution here.

Belt of Dwarf Slaying: Goes to melee.

I think most people have one, but class rarely mattered.


White Dragon Scale Boots: One item that actually goes to druids. Or went to druids. We haven't been killing tormax much since our old loot officer basically stopped playing (old loot officer was a druid...we actually stood a chance at loots then)

Whoever wanted to do the faction work got them.


Sprinkler of the Spirits: Rewarded to clerics who don't bother to get their epic.

Never went to clerics first, went to druids and shaman. Clerics get the Blackstar which is better.



Everything is on DKP type system now so whoever puts in the time gets the item.

New Chest:

<img src=http://www.afterlifeguild.org/itemdb/523.jpg>

Off Aten Ha Ra.

Holy @#%$!

Fairweather Pure

damn

The winner and newwwww Champeeeeeeeeeen:

Mail of Judgement!

Legs are quite nice also:

<img src=http://fohguild.org/news/LoJAten.jpg>

So who bought it?

Bought what?

Fairweather Pure

Bought it

like bought the farm

like who died

like what it drop from

He said it drops from Aten Ha Ra, boss of Vex Thal. And I took the "bought it" as who purchased it, AL is on DKP, so they buy their items.

Kob :)

Hey, need to talk to you a bit. Catch me in game usual bat time!

WOOF

On the subject of swapping bp's for effect...I have the Twisted Nature and the Rowyl's bp, and haven't had much difficulty swapping the two. I have the Rowyl's sitting in an open general inventory slot, and mapped that slot and my chest slot containing the Twisted Nature bp to my 2nd hotkey bank (otherwise known as the "raiding bank") on the left side of my screen. I don't have to open up my inventory and an extra bag to swap them anymore, and the whole process is done in the time it takes to cast the effect. Quite handy. :)

And Rebecca, maybe you should come over and discuss some things with the officers in my guild...I was recently told flat-out that if all things were considered equal, i.e. equal raid attendance, equal seniority in guild, the cleric or shaman would get the gear over a druid, hands-down, every time. If things weren't equal, then whatever class it would benefit the most would get it. Meaning shaman or cleric. My officer actually said to me "you are less vital to raids and therefore considered last for drops because you do not have cheal or slow." Really makes a dedicated raid druid cry sometimes, yanno?

Not to mention they consider botting someone to reflect positively in their "raid attendance" record. When was the last time you saw a druid botted on a raid? Yeah. ;)

Anywhos, since he made the deadly mistake of telling me what was going on in their inner echelon of thought, I've been hardcore crusading for Equal Drop Rights for Less Important Classes, and hopefully something will change for the better soon.

I've been hardcore crusading for Equal Drop Rights for Less Important Classes, and hopefully something will change for the better soon

Given, your officers' mentality, I'd guess the first thing to change would be /guildremove Druid_Who_Dares_to_Complain01.

Actually, you're looking at the proud owner of our guild's first piece of NToV loot. ^_^

Sobe

So, which Cleric got that stuff?

/ducks