View Full Forums : SWG: Proposed PvP System

07-10-2001, 05:35 AM
Here is the design document for PvP in Star Wars Galaxies.

<a href=>PVP Part 0</a>
<a href=>PVP Part 1</a>
<a href=>PVP Part 2</a>
<a href=>PVP Part 3</a>
<a href=>PVP Part 4</a>

Good reading, and I'm really excited by the potential of this system.

BTW, Holocron=Raph Koster
oro - 51st Iksar Monk
Goldmund Targa`Ri - 53rd Wood Elf Druid
Jorah Mormont - 24th Human Paladin
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07-10-2001, 05:38 AM
Part 0:

Hey there everyone. I know, I know, before you jump all over me, the FAQ isn't very detailed. Well, that's what this post is for. We don't want to enshrine these systems in the FAQ until you guys have had a chance to poke holes in 'em.
Basically, every few days over the next week or so you'll be seeing posts from me where I go over the PvP systems that we're looking at for the game. This is post zero, meaning, it's more along the lines of an index into the systems that I'm gonna describe over the next few days.

One thing to remember is that these systems are meant to layer on one another. So as you read each day's post, keep in mind that for example, we might not cover area-effect damage at all, because there is probably a whole post coming dealing with just that, or it gets covered in another post.

OK, that said, let's start...

The PvP doc is 20 pages long, so I am not going to simply post it all in one post. (That's 20 pages not counting the faction system, the PA system, etc, of course). So I'm going to break it into pieces and do some summarization along the way.

"The world will be divided into safe areas and wild areas. In each the default behavior for PvP will change. In safe areas, one player cannot attack another; in wild areas, the opposite is true, but random attacks will result in penalties. In addition to this basic system, there will be exceptions layered on top of these defaults, for the sake of guild warfare and faction conflicts."

Why'd we go this route? Because a) a fully safe world precludes a lot of interesting dynamics such as holding territory, elements that are really intrinsic to Star Wars, b) a fully PvP world chases away too many players. A complete PvP free-for-all was never in the cards; it's just too harsh an environment, and my experience has been that the "bad guys," the harassers and griefers, are the winners in suich an environment.

I know there will be much gnashing of teeth at this point, and many debates over the merits of going this route. So let's go ahead and do that now before we move on to discussing details, since it'll help for poking holes in the systems if everyone knows what the basic premises are.

"The goals are:

ˇProvide a safe, non-threatening experience for those who are not interested in any form of player-vs-player combat.
ˇProvide a rich and deep player-vs-player game that supports politics and adequately represents the Galactic Civil War.
ˇCreate a system that is simple to understand.
ˇCreate a system that is difficult to exploit."

1. Define a consensual PvP system
2. Support holding of territory
3. Support group and faction conflicts
4. Support means of conflict other than merely combat (e.g., espionage, etc)"

Hopefully all of the above makes sense to everyone. if there's major goals and objectives that people think are left out, let me know. Also, I imagine there's fruitful debate to be had on some of the assumptions in the above.


Here's the topics that I am going to talk about in subsequent posts:

* Safe areas. What are the rules there?

* Wild areas. What are the rules there?

* Crossing safe and wild boundaries.

* The concept of "enemies" -- people you can attack, in other words.

* Truce areas (places like newbie towns where zero combat can occur or any sort)

* Attacking of installations and structures.

* Area effect damage.

* Reporting attacks in wild space, and how we decide whether you can report, who can report, and what penalties you suffer if reported.

* PA wars. How you declare them, victory conditions.

* Faction conflict. Sympathizing with a faction, temporary alignment to a faction, declared membership in a faction.

* Battlefields. These are temporary areas marked off the map for the purpose of one-time battles which even non-PvPers can join. How they come about, termination conditions, entering and leaving them, and how players can create them.

* Duels, Pretty self-explanatory.

* System guts: aggressor flagging, how we handle helpful actions and radial helpful actions (like healing someone who is in a PvP fight, etc).

* Disguises.

* Territory and PvP combat. City alignment, what happens if people attack structures while the owner is offline, etc.

* A bunch of scenarios. I am hoping players will throw scenarios at us, too, so that we can sanity check the rules. We've got 5 pages of them right now, but more is always good.

Anyway, that's sort of where we're going. I'd like to let people chew on this for at least a day or two so that we can get the philosophical debates out of the way before we discuss nuts and bolts.

-Raph Koster
Creative Director


Reply by Raph Koster later in same thread:

ALCRION: to be honest, I see bounty hunting as a skill tree, not as a part of the PvP system per se. Hopefully, as we explain the PvP system, the way in which we think bounty hunting will work will become apparent.
Yes, there will be more than just Rebel and Imperial factions. Players make PAs, though, not factions.

BAJEEZUS: Yes, we're shooting for a continuum. You saw the battlefields description, yes?

CRAYWILLIAMS: Larger numbers will likely always help in PvP, but I expect a skilled player versus a group of unskilled players to be able to win.

TRIFORCER: We don't know the breakdown of % of safe and wild area. To an extent, players can change it, even.

DASYRA: Players can indeed enjoy most of the game in the safe area. There are aspects of the game that can't really be played in the safe area, though, the aspects that involve PvP to some degree. Holding of territory is different in safe versus wild areas, for example. The nature of our resource system is such that a given resource may or may not be available in safe, or wild, areas. But that changes over time, so over time both have equal access. This does mean that someone willing to venture to both sides will have more flexibility in playing the market for resources, though.

You can definitely develop your combat skills without PvP.

On the reporting issue--true, reports are an after-the-fact event, but we do plan to make the punishment somewhat satisfactory to the victim.

DARTH_BAGPUSS: A "random attack" is an attack against a non-enemy. Being an "enemy" is a more complex definition.

BLINDTYLDAK: 1) Our punishment is a lot harsher than that. 2) Yes, I alluded to this above. It doesn't really apply for homes, though. Homes have their own rules. 3) Wait till the next post, rather than trying to explain it here. 4) Currently the answer is no for player built towns, but may be yes for design-built ones. 5) Still under discussion. 6) Er, there's lots to stop him, but you'll have to wait to see.

BOBISTAKEN: Bounty hunters will be able to get targets who are in safe areas.

-Raph Koster
Creative Director


--""1 - I do not want to miss out on anything cool just because I refuse to participate in PvP."

There's no way around this--you will. You will miss out on many elements of the Galactic Civil War, for example. Yes, we can provide some of it via NPCs, but you're going to miss out on some portion of the experience. Some of the more dynamic experiences, like governing a lawless town, or visiting one, or trying to take out an Imperial base, will by their very nature involve participating in PvP.

-Raph Koster

07-10-2001, 06:03 AM
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