Reading through many of these posts, I look at all the people who say druids are broken and so on. Am I one of the few people who think druids play strong roles now, and aren't in need of a fixing as much as people seem to think?

I am in a raiding guild and don't feel I lack anything (besides a bigger mana pool /wink), and I often find groups where I don't have to sit for hours.

No. You're not the only one.

The originator of this thread would almost be justified to accuse you of plagiarism:

http://pub149.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovegeneral.showMessage?topicID=31303.t opic

Why make a redundant topic, unless your motivation is simply to draw attention to your self-righteous indignation towards those who dare to consider improvements for druids in all levels and styles of play rather than just their own?

~Firemynd

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Why make a redundant topic, unless your motivation is simply to draw attention to your self-righteous indignation towards those who dare to consider improvements for druids in all levels and styles of play rather than just their own?[/quote]

I've been a lurker here for 2 years and it's responses like this which have always made me hesitant to post anything. This poor guy might not have seen the first thread, especially considering its title wasn't too explanatory (no offense to the poster).

I don't feel he expressed self-righteous indignation at all - rather, just pointed out that he is quite content with the abilities he currently has as a druid. I tend to agree, although I'm always interested to read others' ideas on how the class could be improved and get annoyed when those people get called whiners etc.

I just don't see where the originator of this thread said anything negative towards people who aren't content with the druid class atm :(

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The originator of this thread would almost be justified to accuse you of plagiarism:

pub149.ezboard.com/fthedr...1303.topic (http://pub149.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovegeneral.showMessage?topicID=31303.t opic)

Why make a redundant topic, unless your motivation is simply to draw attention to your self-righteous indignation towards those who dare to consider improvements for druids in all levels and styles of play rather than just their own?

~Firemynd [/quote]
What...plagiarism?
Looks more like YOU think druids are broken and think these posts harm your chances of getting improvements.

Seems like there are plenty of duplicate threads on the problems with druids :)

I don't see the problem with a couple on what's good about druids.

I have to agree. I seem to be getting along just fine with the skills that we have. Granted some of our abilities are a bit useless, but then, every class seems to have a few spells or abilities that just make people go "huh?"

I think a lot of this debate hinges on what level your druid is, what type of playstyle you have, and what kind of social network you have in game. From a pure LFG standpoint, it was much harder for me to get groups in the 50s than at any other time, because our healing was completely insufficient. That's not the case post 60, especially 63+.

Druids are, finally, balanced.

Balanced as a SPORK!!!

There could be entire books written about sporks.

They are representative of everything that should have been right and just isn't somehow. Yet, they are tremendously fun to look at and play with.

I stand by my previous statement.

Yes, sporks are unique. Their very utility makes them perfectly suited for all sorts of dining experiences...err..yes! My sporks *never* sit in the drawer.

I think bards would be like swiss army knives maybe.

Firemynd, help with this please. Then we can get a section on utensils, and speak in code so that we don't offend any other druids that come here.

/hug Storm

Sporks are awesome! They are the perfect piece of camping equipment.

NOW we are getting somewhere!

A Druid is a spork.
A Bard is a swiss army knife.
What utensils/tools are the other classes?

WHO IS TEH SPOON?

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>
I think a lot of this debate hinges on what level your druid is, what type of playstyle you have, and what kind of social network you have in game.
[/quote]
I don't think I've seen a truer quote on the subject.

Nobody said it yet, so here it is...

Druids are peachy.

Serberus

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>WHO IS TEH SPOON[/quote]

There is no spoon.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Seems like there are plenty of duplicate threads on the problems with druids[/quote]

;)

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Balanced as a SPORK!!![/quote]

Stormhaven gets the derailer award!

10 points!

hehe

Funny a cleric should insist there is no spoon. I was gonna say if anyone's a spoon, it's a cleric.

I didnt notice there was a similar post. Forgive me, I was not attempting to draw attention to myself as you so put it.

I created an entire religion based on the spork once.

Then I discovered the holy altar of apathy.

Are druids broken? Somewhat.

Is it because the class isn't balanced? No, I don't think so. At the moment the Druid class is as good as its been since the early godly days of the original game.

Are there some minor changes that could be made? Sure. Reducing the mana for KR. Reducing the aggro on NI. Giving our nukes a bit of a boost. Will any of this really help the dillema druids find themselves in? Not really.

The fact would remain that Druids cannot slow, cannot rez, and do not have the sheer healing, buffing, or nuking power that other classes have. Should we? Debatable (I'm leaning more and more heavily towards a 60% druid slow). All in all, we're a good balanced class. Unfortunately our balance doesn't help us find groups. Specialization does.

Its a dillema I don't think Sony can rectify (though a 60% slow would help alot).

What Sony can rectify is the series of nerfs they've inflicted upon soloing druids, especially charm soloing which is by far our most efficient means when we can. We lack the desirability to compete for spots in groups, often times. Don't remove our ability to solo as a viable alternative.

Please note, I personally am a grouping druid. I don't like to solo. I never have, and only do so when I have to. Normally, however, if I can't find a group...I log off. The alternative need still be present, however.

Aidon is like the spork that got left out too close to the grill and got all warped and melted. Then to round things out, he was dropped on the ground, stepped on and then chewed up by the dog.

No wonder he's bitter :(

Well for heaven's sake, why on earth did he decide to be a plastic spork then? Its clearly a lack of skill.

And plastic....!!!

Everyone knows plastic melts, I mean sheesh people, get with it..

<strong>There is no spoon.</strong>


There is no spork.....

Well, I do agree with Aidon for the most part. A 65 druid with a mostly complete spell book is a good, well-rounded character that is fun to play. The sub 63 healing is weak for PoP, but even if that were fixed, there is still (in my warped mind) a weakness for druids when it comes to grouping. These things can be overcome to a certain extent with patience and friends, but it remains. I personally have no problems getting groups when I want to get them, and on the other hand I have no problem with not getting a group and doing other things, including playing my BL twink.

I feel concerned about the future of the class, though. It would be out of character for SOE not to nerf more things in the future, and it seems the soloing is up for continued nerfs. They don't seem inclined to give us HG for out renewal line. I fear what that will mean for the class in the future as more nerfs go in. I guess many people would just like to "wait and see". Maybe that's sound advice. It takes a *long time* for them to undo or correct nerfs, though. And not much time to implement them.

Frankly, I don't want some new ability. I don't want slow or rez or something brand new.

Maybe LDON will give us back some more of our group desireability. Who knows.

Now, continue on with your good news about the game....I'll be interested and participate in those discussions as well.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> Funny a cleric should insist there is no spoon. I was gonna say if anyone's a spoon, it's a cleric. [/quote]

But I'm not a cleric anymore... :p

As for druids getting a 60% slow...that would be overpowering I think. Perhaps if it were animal-only, it would thematically make sense in the same way necromancers can slow undead.

I really don't think druids need to be specialists to get groups though. A desirable characteristic for druids is their flexibility, the ability to compensate for wherever a group might be weak. A druid in a group means the group could continue to xp if the cleric had to leave. Druids add DPS. Druids buffs are decent, arguably superior for casters and especially hybrids that are more mana dependant. Obviously in each area a druid is not the best, but thats rarely significant.

People don't say "Hey, we need DPS and there is a 61 wizard LFG, but lets wait for a 65 wizard because their DPS is even better!" in PoV or PoS for instance. People say "we need DPS, whats out there" and they tend to grab the highest level and "best" class they can for their camp. I think perhaps people don't believe that druids are good DPS, although perhaps reporting non-critical spell hits might counteract that.

What I think the class could use is pretty much some very simple adjustments. Primarily adding the SCS AA would do wonders I think for helping druids ride the aggro line more safely.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Yes, sporks are unique. Their very utility makes them perfectly suited for all sorts of dining experiences...err..yes! My sporks *never* sit in the drawer.

[/quote]

I would never own a spork! Why use one when a simple spoon or fork is far more efficient. Besides.... I'd be embarassed to serve a nice dinner and set a spork next to the plate.

Well, perhaps a spork if I were using paper plates but never with cloth napkins!

No thanks! I'll never group, I mean eat, with a spork.

Forget the slow thing, I think it would be better and more druidish if it were a 50% damage mitigation deal.

%T becomes entangled in vines

So if a mobs hits for 500 it hits for 250. The deal is, it hits just as fast, so it no way is it a slow.

IMHO this by far is a good druid thing

They could not give druids anything and just make the 60+ game not revolve around slow. That would solve the problem too.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>not revolve around slow[/quote]

no wonder I love aggro kiting!

the dinner plate is the tank. the cleric is the spoon. the wizard is the fork. the rogue is the steak knife. the enchanter... perhaps the napkin?

Warrior - Tenderizer, Masher
Rogue - Icepick
Cleric - Spatula
Wizard - Microwave
Enchanter - Sieve
Ranger - Ginzu knives
Monk - Chopsticks (Oven Mitt? haha)
Necro - Peeler
Mage - Cookie Cutter, (Melon Baller? hehe)
Beastlord - Cheese Grater/Shredder
SK - Corkscrew, Can/Bottle Opener
Pally - Stainless Steel Cleaver
Shaman - Utility Knife, Sharpening Stone/Tool

Clerics are pooper scoopers.

The reason is trite in it's simplicity. Happy people don't post. Unhappy people do.

Yes, that's a generalization, but it's tied in to human nature. My sister used to work in retail -- one of the first things they learn is that happy customers just go away happy. Unhappy customers tell a dozen people. Unfortunately usually not the store.

My alltime favorite gadget is those corn cob holder things. What class would that be? I wanna try that...never get my hands dirty, pretty useless, but everyone wants some.

To the original poster:

I'm also in a raiding guild and LOVE my class. I can't tell you the number of times I've made myself an asset to a raid or even a guild group. The problem still exists that people NOT in a guild or with extensive social circles have an unparalleled problem finding groups. Where as, a chanter or cleric log in, go LFG, and get a tell within minutes, a druid can sit LFG for HOURS and never find anything. Just because you and I can grab guildies and start a group or hop into a guildy group where people know our abilities and trust us implicitely does not mean that the class is desirable ;)

That is what we are discussing. Not whether or not we feel we are "balanced", but that our desirability isn't even CLOSE to being balanced due to game design.

Storm- You must bend your mind!

My Scimitar is balanced. Sharp as the day I got it. Well, I do use it to open the occasional fan mail.

-

Paladins use rolling pins. Holly Rollers. sic.har.

lol

Feel the spork... Be the spork...

Just the word "spork" makes me laugh. Its funny to say )

The problem is and will always be; Where you’re at in the game?

Raiding? Druids do a great job, SoTW as an AA could use a tweak for time since most hold out for MGB. Though some will add that is a free 2k heal. I counter that with the balance health AA; Divine Abjuration for Clerics countered with EE = a group save every 4 mins, basically non-aggro.

Our Damage for raids does not lack.. it is the fact that we cannot fully show our true dps w/o a hate modification spell (that fact alone cannot be generated.. when people do these DPS charts of a Druid). And true today as it was back when we reported it.. Druid Renewals still seem to out aggro a CH; though it is almost manageable with most assist healing during raids.

What I been gathering from most of the post is that "Grouping" seems to need some improvements from low levels on up. Sure we can survive, depending on the gear you obtain and the mana that is on your table, but still here your dealing with the hate issue. The major concern I have is that SoE has pushed most Druids from the Evo Spec --- Alteration spec. Which is my only b1tch - we used to be able to decide which path we would take and was quite frankly a personal decision by the person behind the mask.

Most groups want high dps and solid healing w/the ability to get rez'd since you could lose upward to 4 hours of experiencing prior to the experience changes. That may have shortened but most people who go to experience really do not want to lose any experience, so they try to get the specialist in damage and healing over generalist. People want CC - Enc/Bards can do both slows and mez's allowing groups to get into places that you would not usually go with generalist in your group.

Does this mean we are useless in groups or raids? No quite the opposite - we hold our own pretty well, but we are the last to be called if they can't find healers.. but be sure they will have a slower in the group, which unfortunately counters our Damage Shields and weakens the need for such a spell. Sure you may have your standard groups that meet everyday and they can depend on you to be on.. that’s fine.. no one is saying that you can't or are not doing a great job holding your own.. from your perspective Druids are fine.

The problem comes down and I believe people are tending to forget this... many druids solo'd.. many people who play this game picked a druid because they can solo. The game allowed for this since day one, 4 years ago. Those people want to continue to play the game and solo.. because quite frankly they are happy with this.

If you don't get it.. well I will r e f e r (thx word filter) you back to those Poll's SoE did which asked those specific questions. Where do you spend most of your time.. or where would you like to be.. and listed out "Solo'ing" as one of the options. Sure the data is in the hands of SoE now and I would assume that Solo'ing was not at the top, but people who do solo.. this was a major concern for them.

These people are normal people.. they are not anti-social or inverts as I have heard in the passed.. They like to solo.. they like to do Trade Skills.. they like to market their wears and that is simply their Genre for this game. If you start weeding these people out and forcing them into groups, you will remove one of the key players/characters of this game and even though Everquest is a changing world.. the society should not be Screwed with.. Only the surroundings of which we play in.

SoE does understand this.. and I believe they are trying to nail it down to ensure all parts of society maintain.. because that is what has built this game.. no matter what your feelings are.. or how happy you are with your Druid in the manner of which you play.

Am I happy? Sure.. do I feel that we are lacking in Raids.. not really.. do I feel we are lacking in groups.. from the perspective of some yes... Should I compare myself in a group against someone that doesn’t raid or spends less then 3 hours a day on line in that same group? LoL – No… Comparing Gear is like comparing a 9volt battery that's 4 years old to Car Battery fresh off the shelf fully charged and an Alternator backing it up… I don’t even dare to compare myself.

That is the dilemma of which we all ride.. where are you.. and where are they... what level.. what gear.. etc.. etc.. etc..

But then.. your happy.. content.. and closed your mind to the plight of others, who only wish to be content as you . /shrugs

I will add one thing.. Some will never be content... but there is more then one here stating the same thing over and over and over..


Be well,

<strong>Maybe LDON will give us back some more of our group desireability. Who knows.</strong>

There is always hope. Just adding Jolt to the druid spell lineup would make so many problems just dissapear. A mini version of TR down around 46 or 49 would greatly ameliorate the pre 60 situation. That wouldn't really help druid groupability but by just adding those 2 spells it would get rid of a lot of the other big problems right now.

Going back and adding some mana regen to Natureskin, and fixing Nature's Touch so it's cost and time are in-line with Chloroblast and Nature's Infusion instead of some sort of sick joke would also help the under 65 crowd.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>That is what we are discussing. Not whether or not we feel we are "balanced", but that our desirability isn't even CLOSE to being balanced due to game design. [/quote]

Agree completely. My comments in this thread and the other (original) thread started by 'happy' druids, have had nothing to do with this class being "broken" and everything to do with how other players misperceive druid capabilities and therefore choose specialist classes over druids for grouping.

My position:
1. the druid class, in practice, is pretty well balanced.
2. the druid class, in perception, lacks grouping appeal.

If anyone thought I was complaining that driuds were broken, sorry for not having been clearer.

Absor acknowledged number 2, that druids feel like other players don't perceive this class as group-friendly, and he asked for suggestions on ways SOE could help to change that perception.

In response to his request, people have proposed many different ideas. Some of those ideas, however, seemed intended to address balance issues -- this is where the controversy arose.

To folks who believe that druids <span style="text-decoration:underline">are</span> essentially balanced, the thought of adding more power to the class was irritating. Furthermore, the notion of giving druids abilities which have been the mainstays of other classes (slow, rez, etc), has offended some sensibilities and worse, has drawn fire from players of other classes who think druids are whining again.

It would really help if folks here would keep Absor's request in perspective. He wasn't asking for a wish list of new druidic abilities and he was definitely not agreeing with anyone who might think druids aren't fairly balanced. He was simply asking us what SOE could do to help improve our appeal to other classes. Yes, making any class into a god would give it appeal, but this shouldn't be about adding power; it should simply be about making our existing power more visible and appreciable to other players.

I'd agree that a few minor tweaks and improvements to our existing abilities would help and would not be imbalancing. Druid grouping appeal could also be improved by some ability to offset our lack of 'indoor' usefulness, such as something to aide in CRs which might help groups feel less crippled and less restricted when rez classes aren't available.

Above all, though, any improvement or new ability should compliment other classes more than create unnecessary redundancies.

One thing SOE has done recently has certainly helped: when a mob dies from DoT spells now, proper 'kill' credit is given instead of "a mob died." This change did not give druids any new abilities at all. It simply highlighted something we already had, by giving other players a visual clue that we're contributing DPS, hence contributing to the group's success.

I think that's the sort of thing Alan had in mind when asking how SOE could improve perceptions of druids in groups.

~Firemynd

The originator of this thread would almost be justified to accuse you of plagiarism:

pub149.ezboard.com/fthedr...1303.topic (http://pub149.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovegeneral.showMessage?topicID=31303.t opic)

Rofl. Good one.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It would really help if folks here would keep Absor's request in perspective. He wasn't asking for a wish list of new druidic abilities and he was definitely not agreeing with anyone who might think druids aren't fairly balanced. He was simply asking us what SOE could do to help improve our appeal to other classes. Yes, making any class into a god would give it appeal, but this shouldn't be about adding power; it should simply be about making our existing power more visible and appreciable to other players.[/quote]
Completely agree with Firemynd.

It is so good that this should be stickied hehe.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Hey, we need DPS and there is a 61 wizard LFG, but lets wait for a 65 wizard because their DPS is even better![/quote]

I do.

A L 61 wizard from a guild I trust I'd take. But a guildless L 61 wizard, or from a small guild?

Odds are they don't have the AA (which can boost wizard DPS by a good 40%, not counting mana regen AAs), the mana pool, the FT, the spells, or god forbid might not even have a horse.

A well AA'd and decently geared Wizard can do more than twice the damage over time that j random L 60ish wizard can do (2.3 x as much by my math using the same nukes, with L 65 MC 1 FT 5, all crit AAs, AAFamiliar, AAHarvest, SCM, Horse VS FT 2 L 61).

Admittedly most of that improvement is from gears and AA, and less from levels. But, levels coorelate with that sort of thing.

Good post, Firemynd.

In my opinion, the class <strong>is</strong> balanced. However, I believe a large part of that balance comes from our solo ability.

IF the trend to discourage soloing continues, I would be concerned, because we are not balanced as a solely grouping class.

I think many people have confused the hypothetical brainstorming with the actual issues.

As a class they are balanced. As a single class, I think all the other classes are envious of druids in some way...sow, heal, hp/ac buff, nuke, dot, debuff, etc, blahblah.

Only problem I have is group desirability.

BTW, spork was a great derailer!! I remember using them to fling rocks at people as a child...ahh sporks bring back fond memories, of good times.

...incoming transmission...ALL YOUR SPORKS ARE BELONG TO US, SURRENDER NOW, OR FEEL THE WRATH OF LIFE WITH NO SPORK FOR ETERNITY...end transmission...

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I think many people have confused the hypothetical brainstorming with the actual issues.[/quote]

Very true. This is because many people want absolutes. They want to know the rules and the limitations. So they can know that they have followed the right path, or for others they can know that they have defeated the establishment, or for others that they have done things in an orderly fashion, etc etc..

For such people, hypothetical discussions can be threatening to their sense of security. Not talking about anyone, just making a general observation about life.

<strong>Lost Dinners of Norrath</strong>
Experience new dining challenges in this latest expansion to the popular game Everquest. Expect dynamically-generated meals that will challenge the capabilites of all classes. For the first time, an expansion will be geared to small place settings of 5-6 pieces.

In stores soon.

OMG Bric!

I spit coffee on my monitor now...

Simply brilliant Bric!

~Firemynd

The Issuse I have with the druid class is with its ability to fit into certain types of groups.

Take a druid + enc + tank/damage. Ok, the enc slows and the tank relies on the druid hp buff. I really wish druids had a bigger buff but I dont think a symbol is the answer.

Take druid + bard. Same deal as the enc + druid.

Next cleric + druid. Well you need a slower so there is really no point in the combo unless a druid can slow or mitigate damage for the tank. However, the tank won't get a shamans focus or sta buff or slow or over haste/haste of a bard.

Anyway, the interpertation of what absor requested was to adress the problem of druids finding groups without over powering them. Remember druids are jack of all trades and an additional skill that is, yet again, second to other class might be what is needed.

And yes, that huge thread was brain storming. It was a million ideas spun through various permatations which might result in a cool new spell for this next expansion for druids or others.

Healer:

With max heal AA's + Marr's Gift + Quickening of Mitahniell then Nature's Infusion is a tad more mana efficient and also heals more hp/minute then Supernal Light without any AA or focus.

We can not compete with Supernal Remedys quick cast time though.
We are also way behind Complete Heal.
As long as the one your healing has less then 4000hp buffed, then with max Adept AA's and Tunare's Renewal (3481HP for 400mana) we are almost as efficent as a cleric.
No lvl 65 char has only 4k hp buffed though and as the tank gets more HP the gap gets bigger -> very big, since Karana's Renewal has crap ratio compared to real CH.

Nuker:

With Fury of Magic 3, Quick Damage 3, Speed of Solusek + Anger of Solusek then Winters Frost is quite a bit more efficent and also abit higher DPS then Strike of Solusek without any AA or focus.
Our big disadvantage with nukes is aggro control (concussion + spell casting subtley).

DoT's:

Not enough AA/focus out there to start to compete with Necro/Shaman really.

Then we have Circle of Seasons, BotN, Hand of Ro, Regen & Spirit of the Wood + misc crap that many others can do as good or better. Spirit of the Wood is also not as good as Etheral Elixir or Paragorn.

Solo we rock due to Ensnare in combination with FoE, Charm, Nukes, DoT's etc. We have to low dps/mana efficiency to out level any other similar equipped solo class though.

Powerful? -We need max AA+focus to start competing with core classes.
Balanced? -Dunno, but there are other classes in worse situation imo.
Useful? -Yes

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>
Next cleric + druid. Well you need a slower so there is really no point in the combo unless a druid can slow or mitigate damage for the tank. However, the tank won't get a shamans focus or sta buff or slow or over haste/haste of a bard.
[/quote]

Are you neglecting the fact that in this case the druid will be able to nuke for damage pretty much undistinguishable from specialist DPS classes?

Discounting charm, at 65 druids are arguably the 5th or so best DPS class, falling between rogues and monks in most parses.

Lack of flexilbilty is definitely not the druid grouping problem, there is hardly any 5 person group into which a druid doesn't fit adequately as a 6th. (The main exception would be groups that had healing covered but no slower/haster, or were lacking a tank.) Not many other classes can say that.

Soru

Druid dps is not sustainable because of aggro. Unlike most the high dps classes (basically except mages) we have no aggro reduction ability at all. That combined with the fact that ALL of our spells cause more aggro than any comparable spell of another class means our dps will always be 2nd rate at best when you compare.

Also what is the point of comparing a druid's abilities with max AA and numerous rare raid obtained focus items to the abilities of a naked un-aa'd member of another class? That's apples and oranges. It takes less time and xp to level a cleric to 39 and throw some +mana on her than it takes to make KR more than a joke of efficiency.

I'm reasonably happy with my druid, but the aggro thing kills me. I cant heal particularly well, not well enough to justify the higher aggro and mana cost when compared to a cleric or shaman. I can on paper nuke really well, but in reality 2 nukes will get any mob on me unless a pally/sk has been chain taunting it for 5 minutes. It's an exercise in frustration to have my mana sit at full, and a mob in camp and not be able to do anything for fear of getting pasted in 1.5 rounds.

Tia

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I'm reasonably happy with my druid, but the aggro thing kills me. I cant heal particularly well, not well enough to justify the higher aggro and mana cost when compared to a cleric or shaman. I can on paper nuke really well, but in reality 2 nukes will get any mob on me unless a pally/sk has been chain taunting it for 5 minutes. It's an exercise in frustration to have my mana sit at full, and a mob in camp and not be able to do anything for fear of getting pasted in 1.5 rounds.[/quote]

How true.

I am almost always at 80+ mana whenever I am in a "dps" spot in a PoP group. I really must debuff in order to not get resists. 2 nukes and I am done. So, where does that leave me in DPS? Not even second rate really. So, I prefer to be the healer, even though I've always been evoc specialized. I find that I do well with managing my mana, but there are times when I get very frustrated that our Renewal Line is not allowed ro work with Healing Gift. I realize that a crit heal is not a panacea for a bad pull, since its not reliable. But those occasional big heals can make all the difference at times. That is my experience when I crit with NI. I feel no end of frustration that I am hampered by aggro on all ends of the spectrum and sometimes all I can do is do nothing. I'm embarrassed to say 80m when the cleric is at 45.

DRUIDS ARE NOT THE SPORK!

They are the fork with 2 bent tines. They work just not as well as the good fork, you wouldn't bring them out to show company and they will work in a pinch but it just doesn't feel right!

Deller the bent fork!

trying to convince us we are not sporks is downright blasphemous at this late stage. I am heartbroken that y'all aren't going with the spoon hypothesis on clerics.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>
Next cleric + druid. Well you need a slower so there is really no point in the combo unless a druid can slow or mitigate damage for the tank. However, the tank won't get a shamans focus or sta buff or slow or over haste/haste of a bard.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Are you neglecting the fact that in this case the druid will be able to nuke for damage pretty much undistinguishable from specialist DPS classes?[/quote]

You're negelcting the fact that if there is now slower, the druid and cleric have to alternate exclusively healing in order to sustain pulls. The druid in the above group with no slower will not have mana nuke 'for damage pretty much undistinguishable from specialist DPS classes' nevermind that a druid can't sustain nuking without drawing agro.

A druid can be one of two things: a nuker or a healer. A druid can not be both 95+% of the time due to mana pool, and more importantly agro. Druid heals have huge taunt. Druid nukes have huge taunt. Mix the two for dead druid. The only times I get to nuke as a backup healer is when there is an enchanter in the group because at that point, my ability to heal is superfulous.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Unlike most the high dps classes (basically except mages) we have no aggro reduction ability at all.[/quote]

I believe mages get spell casting sublety aa (archetype). don't remember off hand how much it helps with aggro but that is it's perpose - to make spells cause less aggro.

Not quite teh same as fd/evade/jolt/concusion etc. but still a 1 up on us in terms of aggro management when playing dps.

a jolt spell or css type of aa for druids would be nice.

I wonder if it'd be possible to add an affect to harmony of nature that reduced the amount of aggro produced if the source was out of a certain range... so the basic role play idea would be that the mob was calmed down and would pay less attn to it's not so near surrounding.

This is a good idea - lowering aggro.

I would like these two related things:
1) an AA ability to lower aggro from nukes or dots
2) an AA ability that lowers resistance to my nukes so I don't have to debuff in groups to get my own spells to land (we don't get lure nukes, Hand is the closest thing we have and it doesn't do damage).

Rolaque
Saryrn

Why does it have to be an AA ability? Just wondering out loud here. Wouldn't it benefit ALL Druids of ALL levels if our debuffs/heals/nukes simply generated less aggro than they presently do?

Well if get a vote on the changes I'd go for reduced aggro. Nothing annoys me more at a raid than looking at my mana bar seeing I'm at two thirds full and not daring to da darn thing because I dont want to pull the mob off a tank or end up being summoned too early!

I still think back on when our crippled CH had almost no aggro and consider that one of the best periods I have had playing my druid. Sure it was broken but it does show how much simply reducing aggro on one of our spell opened up a significant improvement in both our ability to group and assist on raids.

It needs to be an AA to be fair to wizards and mages primarily. Its unreasonable for druid aggro on nukes to be turned down for free and yet expect specialist nukers to have to buy an AA for it. However, it is a level 55 archetype AA, so its not like its hard to pause at 55 and grind it out if you feel you need it.

To those who ask what we need to do more I would have to say that on raids especially but also in groups the thing holding me back the MOST is aggro. On a raid unless I recently died or a boss fight has gone on longer than it should I almost never run oom mostly because if I try to I will DIE and often do. If I could pay triple the aa cost for subtlety I would if it worked on heals which is where most of us generate our aggro. Heck even if it only worked for nukes debuffs I would buy the skill and pay alot for it since aggro holds us back more than anything else really.

Having said that however, personally having played a druid for about 4 years this is one of the most balanced times we have ever had. Our soloing was really good but its still decent, we are wanted for raids and I see high end guilds actively recruiting druids on my server at least, and when I do group in places where I can charm or dc I contribute good dsp and if Im not adding damage via charmed pets then I can usually hold my own as a healer for most situations. In my personal opinion its a reasonably good time to be a druid compared with previous expansions.

Hagglethorn Happyfeet Storm Warden Nameless Order Prexus

/agree

I think reduced aggro AAs would be an excellent step for raid and possibly even xp group balancing.

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<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Why does it have to be an AA ability? Just wondering out loud here. Wouldn't it benefit ALL Druids of ALL levels if our debuffs/heals/nukes simply generated less aggro than they presently do?[/quote]

It surely would be a benefit. But in some respects this particular problem is more intensified at the 58+ level.

Revamping lower druid spells ( namely healing ) is a whole other issue. Since my other druid is level 10, I won't speak to that. Its been too long since I was of that level to really give adequate commentary.

I find it terribly amusing that rangers get spells like <a href="http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=1296&source=Live" target="top">Cinder Jolt</a> to go along with their low agro bow damage. Oh wait, maybe it's to compensate for the fact that since they get a hybrid bonus they can cast druid nukes faster than druids can (wouldn't want a long cast druid nuke to get in the way of the DPS from their bow or swords.) Or maybe to help counter heal agro since at 62 rangers now have the best fast heal a druid 3 levels lower has. LMAO.

So maybe like the 18pts for Quick Damage AA which lets druids get a small bit closer to rangers for nuke speed, druids can get another 18pt AA that lets them reduce agro a small bit of the way to what rangers can.

eeep...i just saw my post count. time for a posting holiday, for which I am sure many of you will be grateful!