Yeah, so Panamah inspired me.

So now that they have nerfed the extra type 2 on 1492 point armor, is there even still a reason to get that rather than the 760 armor since they have the same slots?

I'm pretty curious about this since at the very least, I am about to buy some ldon boots, and I'll eventually need at least 3 pieces of ldon gear for some of the type 3 augs, so lets take a look.

1492 - Muscus-Drenched Sandals
AC:17, Sta:5, Cha:4, Wis:4, Agi:6, HP:70, Mana:80, FR:7, CR:7, MR:7, type1,type2,type3

760 - Immortal Blood-Tainted Shoes
AC:15, Str:5, Dex:5, Agi:5, HP:55, Mana:65, CR:5, DR:5, PR:5, type1,type2,type3

So if I choose to spend 732 less points, a reduction of about 50%, I lose 2 ac, 5 sta, 4 cha, 4 wis, 1 agi, 15hp, 15 mana, 7 fr, 2 cr, and 7 mr.

I gain 5 str, 5 dex, 5 dr, and 5 pr.

Save wise, I'll definitely be doing better by paying less, as my weak saves are dr and pr. True, I *will* lose out on 5 stamina, and 15/hp/mana....but it seems to me that 732 points saved AND bumping my useful saves is a fair trade. :)

I personally would never get a full suit of LDON, but while I am at it, lets take a look, shall we?

1492 gear:
Head- AC:17, Str:6, Sta:6, Agi:6, HP:75, Mana:75, DR:7, FR:7, MR:7
Feet- AC:17, Sta:5, Cha:4, Wis:4, Agi:6, HP:70, Mana:80, FR:7, CR:7, MR:7
Legs- AC:23, Str:10, Wis:6, Agi:10, HP:85, Mana:80, CR:13, MR:13
Wrist- AC:15, Str:5, Sta:4, Agi:5, HP:70, Mana:70, FR:3, DR:3, CR:3, PR:5
Arms- AC:17, Sta:6, Cha:6, Wis:6, HP:80, Mana:70, MR:4, DR:4, FR:4, CR:4, PR:4
Tunic- AC:30, Sta:13, Cha:11, Wis:10, HP:100, Mana:100, FR:12, DR:12, PR:12
Hands- AC:17, Str:8, Sta:6, Agi:5, HP:75, Mana:75, CR:7, DR:7, PR:7

Totals - AC:136, Str:29, Sta:40, Agi:32, Cha:21, Wis:26, HP:555, Mana:550, DR:33, FR:33, MR:31, PR:28, CR:34

760 gear:
Head- AC:15, Str:5, Dex:4, Sta:3, Wis:3, HP:60, Mana:60, CR:5, DR:5, MR:5
Feet- AC:15, Str:5, Dex:5, Agi:5, HP:55, Mana:65, CR:5, DR:5, PR:5
Legs- AC:21, Sta:8, Cha:8, Wis:5, HP:70, Mana:65, CR:10, PR:10
Wrist- AC:13, Cha:3, Wis:3, Agi:3, HP:55, Mana:55, MR:2, DR:2, PR:2, FR:4
Arms- AC:15, Sta:5, Dex:5, Cha:5, HP:65, Mana:55, CR:3, DR:3, PR:3, FR:3, MR:3
Tunic- AC:28, Str:10, Dex:9, Wis:8, HP:75, Mana:75, FR:9, DR:9, MR:9
Hands- AC:15, Sta:5, Cha:5, Agi:6, HP:60, Mana:60, FR:5, MR:5, PR:5

Totals - AC:122, Str:20, Sta:21, Agi:14, Cha:21, Wis:19, Dex:23, HP:440, Mana:435, DR:24, FR:21, MR:24, PR:25, CR:23

So, if you spend 5,124 more points(Thats over 100 more successful missions) for a set of 1492 armor rather than 760 armor, you will end up with the following additions:

AC:14, Str:9, Sta:19, Agi:18, Cha:0, Wis:7, Dex:-23, HP:110, Mana:115, DR:9, FR:12, MR:7, PR:3, CR:11

That just doesn't seem like near enough an upgrade for almost double the total points spent. When the 1492 armor had two type 2's, the extra expenditure made sense. I would argue that now it would be silly to spend the extra points on this stuff.

I suggest comparing the stats for individual pieces you are considering buying, and weighing how the stats on that piece will benefit you.

Originally posted by King Burgundy
So if I choose to spend 732 less points, a reduction of about 50%, I lose 2 ac, 5 sta, 4 cha, 4 wis, 1 agi, 15hp, 15 mana, 7 fr, 2 cr, and 7 mr.
Put differently, you're being asked to spend 8-10 hours to get all those stats, all the while getting decent XP. In EQ terms, that's a steal, considering how many hours players toil with no XP for very small upgrades.

Take as another example the two type 2 FT I augments: there's a Takish one for 340 points, and a Mistmoore one for 760 points. Both have the same effect, but one costs more than double the other, because of the exponential time/reward curve as you go higher up the loot chain.

Sure, if you are a super casual player who only does three or four adventures per week and will likely never see a big piece of armor, you might be better off buying the cheaper one. But for the average player who might do 2 adventures a night, it would be best to wait and get the better piece.

Well....it would be 15 missions to get the required points to get the better piece....which for the "average" player would be at least 15 hours I would think, but that is just nit picking.

My problem is I'm not even sure its an upgrade.

On those boots....If I buy the 1492, I'll be getting 2 ac, 5 sta, and 15/hp/mana at the cost of 5 dr and 5 pr(what I'd get off the lesser piece).

Those are the stats that matter to me....and honestly, it feels like a pretty close trade off.

To put it into perspective... On that particular piece, if they were the same price, I'd still have to think about it. =)

And yes, its specific to me. Obviously not everyone is going to be weak in PR and DR like I am or so heavy in Wis that they are looking for places to trade it for other things.

To be fair, some other specific pieces I would definitely go the other way on, like hands. Because those stats suit me better.

I agree King.

Hubby had me put together a chart of items I wanted to upgrade with LDoN stuff. I played around with different items and augs before making some final decisions. Before the 1492 nerf I was choosing some of the 760 pieces just because I want to keep it interesting and see some short term as well as long term goodies. While I did choose some 1492 the 760 stuff isn't half bad.

Originally posted by King Burgundy
On those boots....If I buy the 1492, I'll be getting 2 ac, 5 sta, and 15/hp/mana at the cost of 5 dr and 5 pr(what I'd get off the lesser piece)
/boggle

You mean you'd give up 2 ac, 15 mana, +4 wis, +7 mr/fr, and about 35 total hp for +5 disease and poison resist? I think you're nuts! The Guk armor is clearly better in this category.

You mean you'd give up 2 ac, 15 mana, +4 wis, +7 mr/fr, and about 35 total hp for +5 disease and poison resist? I think you're nuts! The Guk armor is clearly better in this category.

I don't think he's nuts since he is not giving up the above stats. He's not trading one item for the other.

All he's saying that that paying double is just not worth the small upgrade in stats mentioned above.

For my needs, the lower level legs look almost equal.

Stamina on lower level ones, vs str on Guk ones.

Guk (1492):
Legs- AC:23, Str:10, Wis:6, Agi:10, HP:85, Mana:80, CR:13, MR:13

MMC (760):
Legs- AC:21, Sta:8, Cha:8, Wis:5, HP:70, Mana:65, CR:10, PR:10

For me, it's going to be a slot by slot comparison, and will also include consideration of what my weakest areas are.

With an FT 1 or 2 augment, and a wis or mana augment, the 760 legs would meet my needs pretty darned well for a while.

The Guk legs would add ac (straight and via agi, I guess), and mana. But I think the hp would be a wash at my level with my stamina, or maybe the MMC legs would come out ahead, even. (Of course, I could also save longer, and get a stamina and save augment, which could make the Guk legs much stronger over all.)

I'm wearing Nature Walker's Legs at the moment, and the new legs are looking pretty enticing!

I really appreciate the way you put up stats for both sets so we could look and compare!

Sorry, but this kind of thinking only ends up costing you close to 100% more AP in the long run. That, or you are the type of player that is either (i) unconcerned about getting the best out of your equipment, or (ii) simply don't plan on playing for a substantial period of time.

Basically, the 1492 armor is superior in every slot. Unquestionably so. And as Tudamorf has pointed out, what do you have to do to get that better armor? Simply more LDON adventuring, garnering more XP and plat.

If LDON armor does cover an upgrade path for you, and if you play long enough, and if you care about getting the best stats out of your equipment, then you will eventually buy the 1492 armor. So not only will AP spent on the 700 level equipment essentially disappear, but so will the AP spent on the enchancements you've added into the slots. You've spent double the AP on enchancement, 50% more AP on the equipment itself.

Of course, if you aren't that concerned about getting the best out of your equipment, or don't plan on getting a substantial number of AP, then it really doesn't matter. But I suspect that if one has gone through the trouble of doing the detailed analysis above, then you probably are the type of person who DOES care.

I respect your opinion Scirocco. But for certain slots I still don't see it. If I actually choose to buy the 760 instead of 1492 in a certain slot, like those boots....I would never upgrade to the 1492 in that slot.

To me, 760 to 1492 on the boot slot in particular, is not an upgrade path, it is an item of similar worth.

The points in and of themselves aren't that important to me, and I still haven't decided which I'll buy, though I have plenty of points now to make my purchase. Its just a matter of filling out the holes in my gear and in my stats.

You *are* right however, that if someone DOES see a 1492 item as an upgrade from the 760 item, that they should just save for the 1492 to begin with or they are throwing away extra points.

As Aquila mentioned, legs would be another questionable slot, for me. I'd gain sta and pr at the cost of the few extra hp/mana and svm. The way the stats are divided on the two sets of gear, it actually makes them a tough call for me. In that case it doesn't matter though, as I think I'll have a pants upgrade through another source shortly anyway.

With every new item upgrade I've been getting, it just seems that certain stats, like wis, svm, svc, and to a certain degree, svf get progressively stronger, but my svp, svd never advance. So I see the ldon filler stuff as ways to pump those stats that aren't seeing any progress.

*Edit*

Just to explain a bit better. My Poison Resist is 95 unbuffed, Disease 98 unbuffed. Cold 192, Magic 193. Wis, if I had all the AA's to allow it, WAY over the cap.

My current boots are Elysian Boots. AC13, sta5, wis4, agi10, hp15, mana15, svDis +10

So if I replace those boots with anything lacking in sv disease, my natural svd will be down to 88. I'd much rather have poison and disease on that piece than more magic and cold.

To me, 760 to 1492 on the boot slot in particular, is not an upgrade path, it is an item of similar worth.


More AC, better stats, better hp, better mana, better overall resists. It is unquestionably an upgrade, as Tudamorf states above.

Read my edit though. Does that make a bit more sense for my situation?

I mean like....as a ridiculous example....if the difference between two pieces of gear, to be extreme, was one piece had FT30 somehow and one piece was FT15. Since the cap is FT15 and since you are already at it, would you pay that much extra for the FT30 item?

*shrugs*

I'm already pretty much just shy of 500 CR/MR with raid buffs/bards song, and I'm well beyond max wis(again, assuming I had the aa, since I don't, I'm WELL WELL beyond my current max, hehe.) So CR/MR and Wis on a piece of gear mean nothing to me other than allowing me to give them up on another piece of gear...like these boots. :)

Its possible I'm being really stupid here, but this is my current thought process. :)

I could see getting the cheaper gear instead of the more expensive and spending the extra points on augs for the stats you need...

I think it would be enough to not want to purchase the more expensive gear just because of what it's called (friggin' snot rags...) =P

Posted this a while ago when I was researching what would be a nice upgrade, not sure if these items even still exist but this is the conclusion I came to

Muscus-Drenched Tunic-1492
AC:30, Sta:13, Cha:11, Wis:10, HP:100, Mana:100, FR:12, DR:12, PR:12, type2,type2,type3

Type 2-Blood Ruby of Understanding-40m-1150
Type 2-Glowing Crystal of Endowments-20 hp/mana-1150
Type 3-Ext Range 4-1150

Modified
AC:30, Sta:13, Cha:11, Wis:10, HP:120, Mana:160, FR:12, DR:12, PR:12
Focus:Extended Range 4

Total-4942 points or roughly about 100 normal level 65 adventures. This would be my ideal piece but no thanks I don't have the time for this, i'll be in time before I could amass those points. Final Analysis, ldon sucks. Go for items that can stick on old world gear like Blood ruby of understanding(40m) which will go in any augment slot.

For me, personally, part of the consideration will be thinking of some pieces as mid-point upgrades, upgrades that will help me do better elsewhere, and even in dungeons.

The 760 pants would be that for me. I've done 40+ adventures, spread across the themes pretty evenly, playing in pick up and groups with friends. I'm friends with loads of paladins, and they excell in Mistmoore, so I have a fair number of points in Mistmoore. I have half as many in Guk.

For most of my eq career, my gear progression has been step by step rather than extremely huge. Buying the mid-level legs would follow this pattern for me; they'd help me along the path, make legs a lower priority slot for me. I then, say, wouldn't be asking my guild for leather ornate legs that dropped, which would mean they'd be an overall benefit for the guild, too.

I think once I get in LDoN far enough to be able to afford Adventure Points for stuff, then the breadth of my adventuring will give me enough varied points that I'll have different choices. Til then, though, the legs would be a worthwhile upgrade.

Also, don't the high end legs now have slot types 1, 2, 3, and not 2, 2, 3??

Right, same slots.

King B, if you're already capped out that way, it really doesn't matter what you wear. You could go without anything in that slot at all. In essence, the question is moot since it really doesn't matter. Which is funny, since you did all the numeric analysis above.

Yes, the size of the upgrade from one to the other is relatively small. 15 hp and 15 mana and a few points in resistance won't have any real substantial impact on your game, but then, neither will the small resistances that you're looking at on the cheaper stuff. That is true for most incremental upgrades...it only matters in the aggregate.

Carrying your reasoning out further, why bother wasting the points on the second level stuff, then? Heck, buy the next level down and save yourself several hundred more AP. After all, with VoQ, shaman buffs, and a bard along with you all the time (you do have them on all the time, don't you?), their buffage more than makes up for not having the better equipment.

Regardless, it is silly to argue that the high level stuff is not an upgrade, objectively.

And after all was said and done.....

I bought the 1492 boots and just aug'd them out with the 8dis/8poi and spell haste. :)

Thanks for humoring me regardless. =)

LOL.....wise choice!

Well, I bought the 760 legs. Then I put an FT 1 augment in (340 AP from Tak), a stam 10 augment in (357 Ruj), and a stam 6 augment in (100 MMC??).

It used a lot of points, but for now, I have an extra FT 1, and way better leggings than I had. As I'm about to start working on ND, the extra stamina should help a lot (I'm still not maxed even with shaman buffs, though).

I've also gotten a slot 7 FT 1 item from Mir (760 AP) and RGC. That's a fair bit of upgrading for me, especially considering the fun I've had adventuring.

Does anyone else have difficulty convincing groups to go to Guk??

Find a cleric that needs vie.. =) they love guk for that reason alone. But I find more want everfrost then anything atm.

I'm getting the cheaper set and throwing on augments as they drop. I'm saving the big slots for FT and Focus. The adventure point difference is too great for something I will be upgrading with items outside of LDoN like VT and up, in the near future.

I adventure strictly for exp anyway. Points just add up and net me some nice swappables for specific situations. Anything is better than Mage bracers :P