View Full Forums : Bard Mana Song (so you know)


gimli fan
10-17-2003, 01:17 PM
So you know it has been nerfed:

http://pub147.ezboard.com/ftheconcerthallbackstage.showMessage?topicID=18150 .topic

I believe this is the first step in a number of steps to nerf mana user. I am fairly sure the next step will be the nerf of the horse med. Not as much of an issue in LDoN, but likely the next hit. Assuming the tightwads spend enough to assign a dev a few weeks to fix it. Following that I would guess the lull/pacify nerf will be on the way.

Funny thing was most bards dont care. Either due to not wanting additional nerfs, the fact that they dont use mana much so why be a battery, or for the good of game balance. Only thing they lose is a % of one function they can perform.

I guess to many pure melee were rolling bards.


For me I don't care if they have it or not, just interesting information.

Scirocco
10-17-2003, 01:30 PM
Did I not say that (and have I not been saying for years) that "rebalancing" of X usually involves the nerfing of Y? Thus, the rebalancing of melee doesn't mean increasing the power of melee to match casters, but the nerfing of casters (in whole or in part).

Has this happened yet? No. But I fear the above information (if true, and I haven't confirmed it with other sources, yet) may be a harbinger of my prediction coming true. Here's a telling comment by Absor, for example:

<i>Add to that the fact that there is an aweful lot of mana regeneration in the game right now, and it seems like an obvious fix. It's not about "game breaking", no. But it was broken, and as a broken component it was adding to a trend that is getting a bit out of hand.</i>


I leave it to the reader to form their own opinion about whatever the trend is that's getting out of hand...:)

Palarran
10-17-2003, 02:19 PM
Heh...this is actually a nice change for lower level bards. It increases the amount of mana regen that can be provided when twisting two or more other songs (like, say, haste and snare/slow). It used to only be possible to sing one other song at a time while providing 5 to 7 mana a tick.

Panamah
10-17-2003, 02:41 PM
Sum up the change for me, I don't see the full context in that thread.

durinstorm
10-17-2003, 03:30 PM
the 32 mana song used you give you mana every time the song "pulsed" if you left it running it would pulse once a tick... however, bard songs take something like 3 seconds to cast... and it would pulse as soon as you cast it... so you could pulse it every 3 seconds, and it was effected by mods... so a bard could give something like 50 mana/tick on top of everything else but just spamming the song for his group.

i think =)

Cloudien
10-17-2003, 03:42 PM
So it was nigh on an exploit?

As a level 25 bard (alt), I'm apathetic.

Or perhaps just pathetic :p

duralupal
10-17-2003, 03:48 PM
Change is this, lvl 32 song is stackable up to the number of bards you put in the group -- there's no icon associated with the song, rather it simply pulses out x mana every time it's "cast" (no duration to it, just, every cast). So for example, you've got 1 caster and 5 bards (extreme example) in one group, the bards can each put out 7 mana a pulse (4 seconds / pulse) for that caster, all stacking. So, 7 mana / pulse * 5 bards = 35 mana a pulse. Additionally, singing mods and another song amplification, can multiple the effect of the song. Amplifying it for instance, you can get 5 pulses of 10 mana, then a pulse off to re-do amp, for 50 mana pulse with 5 bards. Throw in a singing mod and hey, maybe 70 or 80 mana a pulse. (For a long bard you can actually get even a little better regen even by singing an icon based song, then a few pulses of 32 song so both are working at the same time.)

The thing is, as you can see it's crazy situational, sure bards can stack it, but, only in group so you have to have a group stacked with bards.

The change is, it now takes an icon, icon means no stacking. One bard and one bard alone can be giving the group level 32 song -- and it won't stack with higher level mana regen bard songs either, so, for a high level bard it's essentially in the garbage can now.

Edit: Yes, 3 second per pulse, not 4, sorry. And no, not an exploit in the least, it's been like that forever. What started to get it deemed "overpowered" was singing mods.

For lower level bards it's actually kind of nice. The other lower level mana regen song *requires* string equiped, so, to twist in mana regen at lower levels you had to swap in a lute while you twisted.

Kahlia
10-17-2003, 04:02 PM
Based on Scott's comments at Fanfaire, this is obviously a move to counter the excessive amounts of mana and mana regen possible in the end game.

However, it seems to me as if this change, much like the modrod nerf, is going to hit the wrong people.

So the question is how tight is mana for those of you doing targets in Velious or Luclin? Do you usually complete encounters with greater than 50 mana? How big of an impact is this change really gonna have on you guys?

Racmoor
10-17-2003, 04:15 PM
I quit then I came back. I only came back because of LDoN and the ability to actually accomplish something in about 2 hours. I am being serious that if they take that away I'll leave this game without even blinking an eye.

I'm Nerfed the hell out and I'm just sick of it.

Racmoor

Batou
10-17-2003, 04:27 PM
I'm of two minds on this. I don't really know it will effect the game all that much. I never even knew about it and we are usualy lucky to have a bard or two on when we raid. We still manage to do ok with out the stacking so I really don't see where this change will end the game. I agree that the change hurts bards some, but in the end, I don't think it's all that horid a change really. It's not going to make it so that LDON adventures are really any harder that I can see as bards still have their regen song, they just can't cast it twice per tick anymore. It's still good, just not excesively good.

oddjob1244
10-17-2003, 04:55 PM
Im in the same boat as Batou, we are lucky to have one bard on, let alone two in each group of casters for this to matter.

Palarran
10-17-2003, 05:17 PM
It'll have zero impact on me in current group and raid situations. It's been a LONG time since I've seen a bard using the 32 mana song; usually there are more important things for them to do. I can see how it could potentially be helpful in specific situations that we haven't run into yet (in particular against the rathe), but really I don't think there's much to complain about.

As far as my mana usage...in cheal chains I generally stay at or near full mana unless it's a really long fight, in which case we use shadowknights and necromancers (if possible) to provide extra mana. If I'm spot healing, sure I can burn through mana quickly if I'm not careful, but I can generally budget my mana just fine, cutting back on nukes when necessary.

Stewwy
10-17-2003, 05:33 PM
I am betting this really came into play with Necro's and twitching. Put 3-4 bards with 2-3 necros with lich and an out of group secondary healer and you could probably provide endless mana to a raid.

Palarran
10-17-2003, 05:47 PM
I guess that would be one way to do it; there's certainly a lot of overhead with that method though.

The main thing I've heard about is bards running between cleric groups to provide the mana directly.