View Full Forums : AA's - Avoidance vs Mitigation?


Remi
10-25-2003, 01:38 PM
Is Defense mitigation or avoidance? or both?

I'm asking because I'm thinking of doing Inate Defense AA now. Debating between it or starting to do Agility point AA's. Mitigation doesn't seem to help me all that much, but if I can avoid one 1200 hit, I might live. :) But, there might be something special about Inate Defense that I'm not aware of too.

So what do y'all recommend from the druid's perspective? Should I go with the Gen and Pop Agility points, or do Inate Defense first?

I have Combat Agility 3, LR5 and Combat Stability maxed. I am primarily a raiding druid, whose guild recently reached the EP's. I xp group otherwise. I rarely solo, but when I do, I just rot (root/dot).

Tils
10-25-2003, 02:16 PM
CA / LR = Get

CS / ID = Dont bother


so

Should I go with the Gen and Pop Agility points, or do Inate Defense first?

Gen prolly.

Tils

DemonMage
10-25-2003, 09:27 PM
Assuming your AA list is up to date on your magelo profile

Channeling Focus, Quick Evac (you said you primarly group when doing experience, 5 second succor is handy), Natural Durability

Would probably be what I'd work on. Since you're in the elemental planes though, and you already have one level, you might consider maxing out the Crafting Mastery, so that you can do the Aid Grimel quest. Unless of course you have no desire what so ever to get 220+ in all tradeskills =-p

kendali
10-26-2003, 07:42 AM
definitely recommend natural durability...great way to gain a lot of hp quickly (quicker than upgrading your equipment....and every time you get a new piece of equipment it will add 10% more hp than it says so every 100 hp upgrade actually adds 110)

Remi
10-26-2003, 10:29 AM
and every time you get a new piece of equipment it will add 10% more hp than it says so every 100 hp upgrade actually adds 110) Ooooh! I didn't know that! That is a cool bonus. Okies, will do Durability first then, and then follow up with agility. :)

Channeling Focus, Quick Evac (you said you primarly group when doing experience, 5 second succor is handy), Natural Durability I've avoided channeling focus cuz of the need to move on a horse to interrupt. Sometimes on a raid, there just isn't that much room to move. :p As far as Quick Evac, I have the Coral shield with right click Evacuate so I never mem succor anymore, even when Exodus has been used. Durability seems to be the consensus, and now I'm jazzed about it having learned of the HP bonus it gives equipment. :)


Unless of course you have no desire what so ever to get 220+ in all tradeskills =-p I'd love to do it, but normally don't have the time to farm tradeskill items. Improves come sooo slowly. It's frustrating to farm for 4 hours and then only see 1 improve. :P

DemonMage
10-26-2003, 07:15 PM
/dismount
then duck

Much better then moving around to try and disturb on a horse =-p

Sildan
10-26-2003, 09:05 PM
CS / ID = Dont bother

Why Tils?
Does this not work?

I was planning to do ID as soon as I finish up Channeling Focus.
I realize a little bit of mitigation will make very little difference when on an EP Raid and I get quadded for 2k but for XP type groups or hard LDON adventures when you get agro it would seem like a handy skill.

Sil

Seriena
10-26-2003, 10:06 PM
My thinking is the same as Sildan's. For raids ID isn't going to help much but in LDoN or normal exp groups I imagine it does help somewhat.

I'd still suggest ND3 first for Remi though.

iegil
10-27-2003, 08:48 AM
It's a matter of diminishing returns on your AA's. I'm now down to only a few to finish out all archetype, class and pop AA's other than innate stats.

I absolutely refuse to push myself to do innate stats. (Going to do resists first though when they start happening)

Why?
1) Any given drop in elementals or higher can add 20 points of a stat instantly. It's really better just to raid and pickup your stats that way. Dressed with full gear, my uncapped stats are fairly high. Wis 450ish, sta 380ish, str/dex/agi 260ish, cha 200, int 230ish.

With those kinda numbers buying innate stats doesn't look very attractive compared to innate defense (as gimpy as it is).

That in mind, I'd coach you to do anything but innate stats, as high end gear has insanely generous stats and they won't matter unless your nekkid.

iegil

Tudamorf
10-28-2003, 05:01 PM
Abilities like Combat Stability, Combat Stability, Innate Defense, and Lightning Reflexes should be pretty near the bottom of your list. It's <a href=http://forums.thedruidsgrove.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2612>questionable whether they do anything at all for casters</a>. Natural Durability, however, is excellent -- a few hundred extra HP for no gear changes will increase your survivability.

Noliniel
10-28-2003, 05:06 PM
Lightning Reflexes 5 is acutally really useful. I would get it after I got all my must need aas like scm 3, scf 3, sotw, mgb, rc etc.. Though I got it like way before =p Saved me a ton of times in groups, raids and soloing. Nothing better to watch General Reparm miss you 4 to 5 times in a row !

Tudamorf
10-29-2003, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by Noliniel
Nothing better to watch General Reparm miss you 4 to 5 times in a row !
I agree, these skills make for a great placebo. Whenever you get missed as a matter of chance, you'll be sure to thank the skills into which you dumped all those AA points!

iegil
10-29-2003, 07:38 AM
/shrug Tudamorf.
Yeah, its a great placebo. It makes me FEEL good when I have ID5/LR5 and it takes Innoruuk in phase 5 of time 22 swings to kill me, and the druid next to me without ID5/LR5 takes 5 swings and he's dead.

The only big named mob in PoP I've yet to see the "Placebo" affect is General Reparm. I feel like toejam when he's through still.

Note: There was quite the exhaustive thread posted about mitigation/avoidance in the past where numerous people parsed a haze panther in wakening lands to prove LR5 had zero affect on how often a druid gets hit. And yes, the parses they posted proved that. The argument ensued for days. I for one still do not believe those posts are 100 percent accurate reflection of the skill. Why? Everyone in my guild pushes LR5, every silk class, every leather wearer, every plate wearer, every chain wearer. Of course we could all be wrong, but to a man we all believe in the effectiveness of LR5. The world was flat too, so make your own conclusions.

Fairweather Pure
11-05-2003, 12:44 PM
Everyone in my guild pushes LR5, every silk class, every leather wearer, every plate wearer, every chain wearer. Of course we could all be wrong, but to a man we all believe in the effectiveness of LR5.

A billion people can believe in something, but that does not make it true. Many of us remember back when everyone SWORE that harmony increased mana regen. I for one refuse to let the masses sway me away from the facts that in-game testing has proven.

Tudamorf
11-05-2003, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by iegil
Why? Everyone in my guild pushes LR5, every silk class, every leather wearer, every plate wearer, every chain wearer. Of course we could all be wrong, but to a man we all believe in the effectiveness of LR5. The world was flat too, so make your own conclusions.
Sorry, I evaluate AA skills using the scientific method, not like some crazed religious zealot who believes any rumor that he would like to believe. A hypothesis is worthless unless proven. My tests showed that this skill either no effect at all or possibly an effect that is too small to notice based on the parameters I chose. You have provided zero statistically significant evidence that the skill does anything significant. Therefore, the weight of evidence tells me it does nothing significant. And until I see real evidence to the contrary (which may or may not exist), I'm not going to change my mind.

By the way, to add on to Fairweather's warning about being a rumor zombie, I can't count the number of ubers who insisted back in early Kunark that higher haste items and spells are better, and who continued to insist it even after I had proven them dead wrong. Of course, they were dead wrong, and the testing showed it, but they kept on believing only what they heard and wanted to believe, not what was actually true.

In the meantime, enjoy your placebo. <img src=http://lag9.com/biggrin.gif>

Aaeamdar
11-06-2003, 05:46 AM
One thing I noticed about your tests, they were all done with an AC around, or slightly below, 1K. I am myself, far from Ubre, being at the VT level atm, and self buffed my AC is near 1300. Do you think it is possible that the skills had such a negligable effect because the test subject AC was so low? Similar to our ATK debuffs having negligible effects if the ATK of the target far exceeds the AC of the tank, or is already far below the AC of the tank. (not exactly like it, mind you, because ATK debuffing does not effect hit%, just distribution of damage, but maybe you are seeing an inkind result). As an initial test - you could see if AC has any effect on hit%, by tanking the panther naked and comparing it to the hit% when equiped.

On a complete aside - I saw this:

I can't count the number of ubers who insisted back in early Kunark that higher haste items and spells are better

What does that mean. I am reading it to say a 41% haste item is no better than a 19% haste item, but I assume that is not what you mean? Can you explain, or just link a reference, to what you are talking about. Thanks.

iegil
11-06-2003, 08:01 AM
Exactly Tudamorf,

Though, You never know, maybe the haze panther is the placebo which will show no affect from the norm with regard to LR5/ID5 because of the way its stats are laid out.

Either way, yes I agree with you Tudamorf, the one level 60 panther in wakening lands is not affected by LR5 which is what your using to conclude that LR5 affects no mobs for druids.

Very nice statistical sampling of the 2000+ mobs in EQ to leap to conclusions from.

Iegil

Fairweather Pure
11-06-2003, 04:09 PM
Very nice statistical sampling of the 2000+ mobs in EQ to leap to conclusions from.

Be as sarcastic as you want. It dosen't change the fact that Tuda knows what he is talking about and his opinions are based on in-game testing that he performed. You still have nothing but guesswork, word of mouth, and a "feeling".

Unless you post proof that disproves or disputes Tuda's testing, you are just blowing hot air. I invite you to provide that proof or drop it already.

AmonraSet
11-06-2003, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Fairweather Pure
Unless you post proof that disproves or disputes Tuda's testing, you are just blowing hot air. I invite you to provide that proof or drop it already.

All you really need to do to see that the sample sizes aren't big enough is to look at the difference in the two results at the LR5 level. One of the results gives 62.7%, the other gives 69.8%. Factor in that same margin of error (which could be even bigger) to all the other results, and the parses don't show a huge amount.

What they do show is that you wont get a 50% reduction in damage taken from CA2 to LR5, but they easily support a 10% (or more) reduction in damage taken, making it about as valuable as ND3 (although costing more AA).

Kineada
11-06-2003, 08:12 PM
While I too would love to see several statistical tests (in the order of 100,000 datapoints to overcome RNG streaks), I doubt it will happen. Getting druids to do anything is like trying to herd cats ... Unlike warriors who seem to love smashing mobs for 8 hours and parsing the results.

Tudamorf
11-06-2003, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by iegil
Though, You never know, maybe the haze panther is the placebo which will show no affect from the norm with regard to LR5/ID5 because of the way its stats are laid out.
/shrug

I say, "Prove God exists." You say, "Prove God doesn't exist."

A tired old debating tactic stretching back at least as far as the time of Socrates -- force your debating opponent to prove the negative (which is impossible to do totally), and when he makes any progress towards doing so, just withdraw that portion claim from the argument and repeat Step 1 (like you just did -- "well, you may be right about the <i>haze panther</i>, but now prove to me you are right about everything"). Using this method you can prolong a debate endlessly without having to concede your original premise.

Fortunately, the scientific method rejects this nonsense. If you are trying to prove a hypothesis, the burden is on YOU to do so. That means, you have to provide testing which supports your hypothesis in order to give it credibility. Once you prove that, someone else can try to test your hypothesis in a different situation and see if it stands up. Eventually, if it does, it becomes a <i>theory</i> which others assume is true. I've taken the first step in that process; you haven't, and that's why you don't have credibility.
Originally posted by Aaeamdar
What does that mean. I am reading it to say a 41% haste item is no better than a 19% haste item, but I assume that is not what you mean? Can you explain, or just link a reference, to what you are talking about. Thanks.
That is exactly what I meant. For the first year and half of EQ (until about 4-5 months into Kunark), any character would reach the haste cap using any haste item and any haste spell. I tested this shortly before Kunark and started a long thread about it on the enchanter forum (now no longer exists in the archive). Another poster on the bard forum also tested it and reached the same conclusion. Still, many players simply refused to believe it, until SoE actually fixed the bug and announced it.

Same deal with stat buffs -- a few months into EQ's release, when everyone believed that stats were godly, I posted some testing on the shaman forums and showed that they have very little effect on melee performance. You wouldn't even believe the twisted logic the stat zealots came up to defend their untenable position, which we would laugh at today.

Aaeamdar
11-06-2003, 08:35 PM
This is not a sample size issue. The point was already made in the other thread, but I'll re-make it here. If the sample size used (500 hits) is too small to see a difference then that also speaks to the uselessness of the AAs. In a day of agressive adventuring, I might get swung at 100 times at most. In a night of raiding, if I get swung at at all, it happens maybe 10 swings in a night.

So, if at 500 swings no one can see a difference, that is 5 days of heavy adventuring or 50 nights of raiding. If it takes thousands of swings to see a difference, the the AA is almost pointless.

Also, if you are going to demand parsing against a significant portion of the mobs in the game, you are essentilly saying you are not interested in learning anything about the effectiveness of these AAs. You will want to run some basic tests and do some random sampling to determine if any of the conditions in your test against the Mist Panther are outliers - run a smaller sample size parse against 4-5 other creatues and see is you notice any significance and also determine is AC has any effect on hit%. If both of these things come up negative, then I think you can rely on the Mist Panther and the 1k AC toon as representative.

One last comment, the attitude of those rejecting Tudamorf's tests here is very misplaced. Don't reject his tests out of hand because you don't want to believe you spent your points badly. If some more thorough testing can be done to isolate and discount some of the identified possible variables, then we know these AAs are a waste of time. In that case, we need to approach SOE with our data and argue that they be made effective or argue that SOE should concede that the AAs do not work as advertised and offer people a refund of points.

There is no harm in learning the truth.

Macnbaish
11-07-2003, 10:51 AM
/agree Aaeamdar and Tudamorf 100%

Without restating everything they said... regardless of sample sizes, AC, mobs it will work on etc, The statistics shown certainly don't show me anything worth 27 points.... if I'm spending that kind of time on an ability, I want it to work on every mob, with any ac, and not need to be swung at for 3 days to see results. 27 points should show a statistically significant improvement. It doesn't, and I think Sony should take a close look at this.

Scirocco
11-07-2003, 11:11 AM
You can't fault Tudamorf's scientific approach. He and I have been in agreement on the importance of collecting valid in-game data since day one (and yes, I remember all those chanter threads...:)

The last summation is a good one. If LR and related AAs have any effect, it is a relatively minor effect. I personally got ND first (the effect on HP is direct and measurable), although I did get the AAs under discussion soon afterwards. It probably has helped me in the long run, but I cannot prove that, and as stated above, I can't really recommend spending the points on these AAs early in the process (say, the first couple hundred AAs).

What Tudamorf has shown is that the benefit, if any, is very small. It is up to those who contend otherwise to collect the data from other mobs to demonstrate that there is any substantial benefit.

Noliniel
11-07-2003, 11:50 AM
One way to solve the problem, make another test with a different mob in a different zone. Results might be different but who knows =p

iegil
11-07-2003, 04:22 PM
Be as sarcastic as you want. It dosen't change the fact that Tuda knows what he is talking about and his opinions are based on in-game testing that he performed. You still have nothing but guesswork, word of mouth, and a "feeling".

Tudamorf did an excellent job in proving that LR5 made no difference with regard to the performance of his toon vs the haze panther. A mob that even Tudamorf specifically admitted was commonly used due to the "performance" of it in combat. High percentage of hits for low damage.

Similarly, Palarran showed in the same thread that LR5 seemed to make a difference with Phinegal Autropos.

Others besides Tudamorf saw a 10 percent decrease in the number of times a haze panther hit them in the same thread.

Yet everyone carries Tudamorfs banner of no difference.

My point is, and always has been, use a larger sample size of mobs that people commonly fight before declaring a conclusion with regard to this AA. CoDecay pusslings, rats, valor golems, hoh gaurdians, storms giants/frogs, Bot giants, velious dragons, vindi, AoW.

I'll be glad to pull out a few samples from mobs sometime. But my results would not be 100 percent scientific with regard to LR5. My AC has gone from 800 to 1400ish, my hp from 2000 to 5000, my base stats from 100ish to 250ish, so I believe the LR5 numbers I have access to will be tainted. Not to mention anything from my early numbers usually resulted in a quick death.

Iegil

Aaeamdar
11-08-2003, 05:50 AM
AC irrelevant.

Ok - this really should have been obvious to me before, because of the way ATK and AC debuffs worked, but the AC, from gear at least, has no effect on miss% and thus presumably no effect on CA/LR.

I ran three long test with the Mist Panther tonight. Unfortunately, I can't do what Tudamorf did, because I already have LR5, but here are some findings.

Test 1. AC 1327 - Hits - 1592, Misses 1176 (missed 44% of the time), Hit for Max (115) 88 times, hit for min (58) 344 times - averaged 81

Test 2. AC 833 (took off some gear) - Hits - 1072, Misses - 776 (missed 42% of the time), Hit for max 104 times, hit for min 164 times - averaged 85

Test 3. AC 1327 - debuffed MP with Hand and RI (-180 raw ATK) - Hits - 1056, Misses - 848 (Missed 44% of time), Hit for max 4 times, hit for min 528 times - averaged 71.

So, AC has nothing to do with miss%. I ran the last test just to show some of you what many of us already knew - ATK has nothing to do with miss% - so if there is something wrong with using the MP as a test subject - it has nothing to do with its ATK.

Some other things to note.

1. The MP had a much harder time hitting me than Tudamorf's enchanter. My guess for the reason for this is that Chanters have Defense Capped at 140, Druids at 200. It may also be the case that there is a class variable in whatever formula is used to determine whether a hit is achieved and maybe it is different for Casters and Preists. Right now I am guessing the formula involves Class/Level/Defense skill for defender and Class/Level/Offense skill for attacker. If that is the case CA/LR may simply act as a modifier to Defense - in which case it would have a greater effect on Melee than Preists and a greater effect on Preists than Casters. That part is all speculation atm.

2. The MP behaved exactly as expected when ATK debuffed. The DM on average was lower, the Max hits were greatly reduced, the Min hits were greatly more numerous. While that does not necessarily mean the MP can be expected to behave like other Level 60 mobs in other combat respects, it is eveidence that it is more likely than not to behave normally. I'll run some more tests on other mobs, but given that the MP behaves exactly as expected with regard to ATK, I will guess it is a good representative for melee combat, generally.

Some thing I'll be looking at over the next few days.

1. I'll sample other mobs to see if their miss% is comparable to the MP. It is impossble to do bosses, but I'll explore some other non-PoP mobs solo and I'll get some help to see what some PoP mobs do while beating on me.

2. I'll grab another Druid in the guild that has no points in CA/LR (Fairweather your CA/LR is 0, right?) and we'll go run some side by side tests.

Fairweather Pure
11-08-2003, 09:50 AM
2. I'll grab another Druid in the guild that has no points in CA/LR (Fairweather your CA/LR is 0, right?) and we'll go run some side by side tests.

I'm game. Look me up when we're bored.

Darklotuss
11-09-2003, 12:50 AM
You all are too smart for me. Back to killing stuff
(first post yay)


Darklotuss Bloodrunner
62 Druid
that server that starts with a Q

"Anger is a gift and Destruction is an Art"

iegil
11-13-2003, 06:20 AM
<table width = '100%' border='1' cellspacing='0' cellpadding='3' bordercolor='#0000ff' bordercolorlight='#000000' bordercolordark='#ffffff' frame='border' rules='all'> <tr> <td colspan=31 bgcolor=#800000><a href='http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?name=Mist+panther'><font color=#ffff00 size = +1><b>Mist panther</b></font></a></td></tr> <tr bgcolor=#cbbfa5 style='color: #000000;'> <td>Attack</td><td>Sort</td><td>Friend</td><td>Name</td><td>Attack</td><td>Start</td><td>End</td><td>Duration</td><td>Dmg</td><td>Dmg%</td><td>DPS</td><td>Hit</td><td>Miss</td><td>Hit%</td><td>HPS</td><td>MaxH</td><td>#</td><td>MinH</td><td>#</td><td>AvgH</td><td>% 1</td><td>% 2</td><td>% 3</td><td>% 4</td><td>% 4+</td><td># Stuns</td><td>Stunned</td><td>DLY</td><td>Dmg Taken</td><td>Slain</td><td>Base Attack</td></tr> <tr bgcolor=#f9fac0 style='color: #000000;'> <td>kick</td><td>2mist panther 3,090kick </td><td>2</td><td>Mist panther</td><td>kick</td><td>5:48:13</td><td>6:15:34</td><td>0:27:21</td><td>3,090</td><td>6.6%</td><td>1.88</td><td>30</td><td>32</td><td>48.4%</td><td>0.04</td><td>103 (30)</td><td>30</td><td>103 (30)</td><td>30</td><td>103</td><td>100%</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>269</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>kick</td></tr> <tr bgcolor=#dddddd style='color: #000000;'> <td>claw</td><td>2mist panther 43,599claw </td><td>2</td><td>Mist panther</td><td>claw</td><td>5:48:13</td><td>6:15:38</td><td>0:27:25</td><td>43,599</td><td>93.4%</td><td>26.50</td><td>580</td><td>445</td><td>56.6%</td><td>0.62</td><td>115 (30)</td><td>30</td><td>57 (1)</td><td>1</td><td>75</td><td>42%</td><td>51%</td><td>7%</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>26</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>claw</td></tr> <tr bgcolor=#f9fac0 style='color: #000000;'> <td><b>Total:</b></td><td><b>2mist panther zzzzzzzz </b></td><td><b>2</b></td><td><b>Mist panther</b></td><td><b>Total:</b></td><td><b>5:48:13</b></td><td><b>6:15:38</b></td><td><b>0:27:25</b></td><td><b>46,689</b></td><td><b>100.0%</b></td><td><b>28.38</b></td><td><b>610</b></td><td><b>477</b></td><td><b>56.1%</b></td><td><b>0.66</b></td><td><b>115</b></td><td><b>&nbsp</b></td><td><b>57</b></td><td><b>&nbsp</b></td><td><b>77</b></td><td><b>&nbsp</b></td><td><b>&nbsp</b></td><td><b>&nbsp</b></td><td><b>&nbsp</b></td><td><b>&nbsp</b></td><td><b>&nbsp</b></td><td><b>&nbsp</b></td><td><b>&nbsp</b></td><td><b>650</b></td><td><b>&nbsp</b></td><td><b>&nbsp</b></td></tr></table><br>

I have the avoidance pants from RZtW, LR5/ID5... still runs 44 percent missed =\ Seems avoidance pants only affect your AC. I was sitting around a 1327 AC for this as well.

Kulothar
11-13-2003, 08:21 AM
As for antedotal cases: Pulling the AoW in Kael, I cleared the area pulling all of the Poz etc and not dieing because they missed a lot. I pulled with snare and on bad pulls used my damageless root to separate them. I have had the AoW miss me as many as 6 times in a row (before killing me) just from dodge with no AG/LR points and just good dex/agi.

I love my dodge and I really think that LR should be considered bugged from the people I have talked to that invested in it. In the same pull as above, the MT was hit almost every time and I lasted most of the battle before being summoned for the third time on a heal. (first two summons were from snare agro and I dodged almost all of the blows from them).

I have to agree with Tuda since his statistical method is sound enough that even with a margin of error it is better to save the AA's and use them on ND. Anything that cost that many AA's should have a clearly visable effect and not leave people guessing on whether it worked. If it is mob specific or AC/Level dependant, that is another problem.

iegil
11-13-2003, 03:02 PM
In no way have I or anyone I know ever espoused avoidance before ND or some other AA's. Natural Durability is really a nice upgrade, like 300 free hp which is huge.

Batou
11-14-2003, 03:15 AM
I have every EQ gaming session since Sat Sep 28 09:57:43 2002 stored in 175MB of logs. I have also had mobs hits and misses against me on the entire time. I don't have any points in any mitigation AA's.

Since my gear has GREATLY improved since then (but my defense skills were allready caped) it shoudl be possible to determine if gear has any effect on the miss percentages. It should also be possible to filter by mob type for hits and misses and if you have a lot of time, it should be possible to seperate out seperate fights with a certian type of mob if you have a time gap greater than a certian amount. I also have taken a lot of hits from mobs in PoA due to heal agro and have been hit many times by several pop boss mobs. One thing the data might make clear is if the mob type makes a difference. I.E. Does a mist panther have the same chance to miss as a mob in poa? Hopefully 14 months worth of data on a druid w/out the AA's should help establish a baseline. By parsing the data from each month and then comparing it to each other month, it might be possible to draw some statisticaly significant conclusions.

If someone wants the data (*cough* Tudamorf *cough*), let me know what lines you need from it so I can filter out stuff like guild chatter and such. That will hopfully shrink the size of the datasets down from the 175MB monstrosity that they are, espeicaly when ziped to.

Aaeamdar
11-14-2003, 05:52 PM
I'll parse that. If you are willing to prefilter it for comabt only stuff that would be great. If you could also leave in any lines that show you increasing in level or having Skill up to Defense.

Batou
11-14-2003, 07:13 PM
Ok, I'll try and get that data parsed out and filtered into email size chunks this weekend. I don't think any of my combat skills would have gonne up in that time because I caped defense and offsense skills around lvl 55 back in my days in sebelis. It would show how level affected it though as I leveled up. I'll try and also leave in any equpment upgrades I got in.

Batou
11-30-2003, 03:26 AM
See http://forums.thedruidsgrove.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5767 for the sumary of the data. I only did the mele hits, misses, dodges, kick hits and kick misses.