View Full Forums : For Scirocco, et al.


Aly
10-30-2003, 11:59 PM
Here's an example of the "tedious and mundane" activities I would love to see in a MMORPG. I'll put them in current day EQ terms so they're easier to understand. (RT = real time, GT = game time)

Druids of Tunare:

-- Once per RT.month, at a time of their own choosing, druids who venerate Tunare would be required to spend some time communing with nature. This could take the form of sitting in a temple/shrine for one or two GT.hours or taking on a quest from one of the temple priests.

During this time at the temple or communing with nature (which could involve using their tracking skill to find a Spirit of Nature), the druid could hail a druid/spirit and learn of news concerning their lands and current events in the world that affects the druids of Tunare.

-- Druids who faithfully perform their duties would gain a +2% / 10 levels bonus to their mana pool for the next month.

-- Druids who neglect their duties could suffer several penalties. Maybe a 1% / 10 levels reduction of their mana pool. An increased fizzle rate because Tunare is angered at them. Or even a reduction of their spell casting skill levels representing them losing touch with their faith. They can rectify this by taking a Quest of Atonement.

-- Quests --

- Example 1: A Shrine Desecrated!

A shrine, deep in the Faydark has been desecrated, allowing evil to creep into what was once a pristine valley. Vandals rumored to be in league with the Indigo Brotherhood were seen fleeing through the forest from malcontent spirits and shadows. Take this charm and use it to purify the shrine. Remove any dark spirits and shadows find from the valley, by any means.

The druid gathers friends and/or strangers to help them with this quest (just like a LDoN adventure) and leads them to the hidden valley and attempts to clear the valley of evil and purify the shrine using the charm.

The game could keep track of how many times the quest is completed successfully or failed and that information could be used for the next month's news/quests. And character flags would only allow the druid to attempt the quest once.

Benefits: The druid learns more about what's going on in the world. Gains more information on their own guild. Gains experience and loot. And could make new friends from gathering the group needed for the quest.

The group gets experience, loot, and a fun adventure that motivates them to help their friend. They themselves may someday need the help of the druid for one of their own quests.

Drawbacks: Well, the druid would have to do this once a RT.month. Maybe change the frequency for required worship/communing to every two RT.months. *shrugs* It'd be something to balance later through beta testing.

Another drawback would be if someone was an alt-aholic... and had multiple characters that required something similar. However, it's also a benefit in my eyes as it motivates players to be more involved in the game world and take the role of their character more seriously.

-- Example two will be in the next post. What is so tedious about being required to play the role of the character you chose? It's not like this system would be pushed onto you in the middle of the game. It's something you would know about from the beginning. And perhaps it wouldn't start until after you hit 25th level or so representing your significant importance to the guild.

Aly
10-31-2003, 12:09 AM
Ok, let's use a non-religious class now. How about warriors. They could have the option to join one of various NPC based warrior guilds scattered throughout the lands. Once every RT.month or two, they would be required to travel to their guildhall and hone their skills on practice dummies or something for a set amount of time. Nothing major like a RT.hour. Perhaps a set amount of damage based upon their level or they could accept a quest from one of the guild NPC's, just like taking a quest from a LDoN camp.

Benefit: The warrior that hones their skill gets a +5 / 10 levels increase to their ATK rating or a weapon skill of their choice for the next month.

Drawback: The warrior that neglects their training at the guildhall faces a loss of skill until they accept a quest or do double the training at the guildhall. An example quest is below.

- Example 2: Banditry in the Pass!

Bandits in the High Hold Pass have taken Gunthar Axethrower prisoner. They're holding him in a small cave near the gnolls territory. Either rescue him before they divulge the secrets of our guild or kill all the bandits that tortured those secrets out of him.

Benefits: The warrior feels like they're playing an important role in the guild they've chosen and perhaps gain some more enjoyment out of what would have been just another random adventure. They could also, like in the first example, make some new friends while adventuring. They also get the experience and loot from the adventure and new knowledge and immersion into the world.

Drawbacks: It might take a couple hours of their time to gather the group needed for the adventure and then complete the adventure... and if they're a loner, it could taker longer, but then they have the option of using the practice dummies at the guild hall.

Aly
10-31-2003, 12:18 AM
How about mages now. They could share some stuff with wizards. Maybe they're required to produce some rare reagent for spell research or spend some time once every RT.month or two helping do research at a guild hall.

Benefit: The wizard/mage that completes the quest or does the research gains a bonus to their mana pool... or a small increase on their damage.

Drawback: The wizard/mage that neglects their guild duties faces higher prices at the guildhall for their spells and reagents or a reduction of their mana pool.

- Example 3: Al'Kabor's Lab!

Rogues snuck into Al'Kabor's lab and stole the rare Crystal of Black Ice needed for his new spell, Al'Kabor's Black Spiral of Icy Dancing. (cookie for the reference) A ranger hired to track the rogues has found their lair is near Surefall Glade in the Qeynos Hills. Retireve that reagent by any means before the rogues escape and sell it to Al'Kabor's rival, Absor Smash.

Benefit: The mage/wizard could possibly get a new spell out of the deal. Learn more information about the lore surrounding their guild and more. Plus they and their group gets the experience and loot from doing an adventure similar to a LDoN adventure.

Drawback: If they fail, they'll never see that spell, but that could be turned into a benefit as later in the game, those successful in the quest would have something unique to them. And the usual drawbacks of having to find a group and crawl the dungeon. As if that is a chore considering how popular grinding xp at a camp has been proven.

Aly
10-31-2003, 12:29 AM
How about rogues, it could even be tied into the wizard/mage guild. Perhaps the rogues guild you're part of is the one that stole the Crystal of Black Ice. Or maybe you're part of the rogues guild that captured the member of the warrior's guild.

A rogue would have to prove their worth by bringing back an item of value to the guild. This would be done through an instanced quest that's only able to be attempted once during that RT.month or two.

Benefit: The rogue that completes their task successfully gains an ATK bonus similar to warriors.

Drawback: Rogues that fail their task lose some ATK or they lose a small portion some of their rogue skills like lockpicking , pick pocketing, sneak, and hide. (If the skill level of hide and sneak actually meant something other than pass fail... and mobs had some way to listen or spot the rogue.)

- Example 4: Steal the Crystal of Black Ice!

The Shadow Blade guild has been contracted by an unknown patron to aquire an extremely rare spell reagent from Al'Kabor's lab in the depths of Toxxulia Forest. By whatever means, claim this reagent for us and return it by the moons turn and we'll reward you for your diligence and service to the guild.

Benefit: The rogue feels like a part of the guilds affairs and gains experience and loot and lore from taking the quest.

Drawback: Most people wouldn't take a sneaky route through the lab and would just kill everything, depriving the rogue of their skills unless the zone was designed with secret passageways able to be found only by the rogue. Traps and guardians in certain spots.

Also there would be the usual task of gathering a group to take care of this adventure.

Aly
10-31-2003, 12:31 AM
Now Scirocco... can you honestly say that those examples above would be too concrete for you? Not abstract enough? Tedious... boring? Can you honestly say you would not enjoy taking part in those quests and storylines?

edit: BTW, most of those were thought of and typed out in about an hour. I could keep going but I think I've made my point.

Firemynd
10-31-2003, 03:34 AM
-- Druids who neglect their duties could suffer several penalties

When you said that, I suspect you lost 99% of your audience.

/drops pin
/listens

~Firemynd

Aly
10-31-2003, 03:39 AM
Oh wah. Every class would have penalties for neglecting them. It's not like it's a real hardship to do one single frelling quest every month or two.

AmonraSet
10-31-2003, 08:22 AM
Good heavens. Thousands of quest ideas and we get a slaughter mission, a rescue mission and 2 collection missions. Seems familiar from somewhere…

Geddine
10-31-2003, 08:30 AM
I just think the resources to do something like this would be too great, I'm talking from a development point of view. But nice thought.

Ladred
10-31-2003, 08:36 AM
frelling

I love that word, miss the show. :(

Alaten
10-31-2003, 10:34 AM
Probably going to get a /slap for this, but I like the idea.

EverQUEST sometimes seems like a job when you log on, raid everynight, AA/EXP/LDON during the weekends, and somehow do tradeskills not just for being a good baker/seamster, but because you want that nifty shawl or Grimel ring...

4 years ago, there was a BIT of roleplaying involved, pre-Sony... maybe I just miss those days...

Elder Alaten
Storm Warden

Aly
10-31-2003, 02:18 PM
Good heavens. Thousands of quest ideas and we get a slaughter mission, a rescue mission and 2 collection missions. Seems familiar from somewhere…

*yawns* Excuse me for not wanting to spam the message boards with more of my thoughts and ideas. The point behind my posts is to show how much more immersive quests could be, especially with the instancing tech.

Something like I proposed would take a lot of preparation to make it run smoothly and on time, but eventually, it would all just flow from one month to the next. Especially if the scripting and zone design programs were well crafted for ease of use.

I just think the resources to do something like this would be too great, I'm talking from a development point of view. But nice thought.

I don't know. I think a small team of three or four people working together could keep the storyline moving once a month or every two months. Especially after reading the Lore for EQ2. Each city has five major factions. So roughly ten storyline quests a month. I came up with four in just an hour. Imagine what four people could do.

Zone geometry would have to be recycled some, but mob placement, lighting, placeables such as tables and the like could change easilly, and the mobs themselves could be recycled from other parts of the world as well. It's not like you'd be designing completely new zones each and every month.

EverQUEST sometimes seems like a job when you log on, raid everynight, AA/EXP/LDON during the weekends, and somehow do tradeskills not just for being a good baker/seamster, but because you want that nifty shawl or Grimel ring...

4 years ago, there was a BIT of roleplaying involved, pre-Sony... maybe I just miss those days...

Yeah, I roleplayed some as well when I first started, but real roleplayers are just too far and few between to make it worthwhile. I think the game just ended up being too much of a loot whore game and the emphasis on storyline and immersion got shoved to the background.

I really don't understand how people can be opposed to ONE required quest once a month or every two months. It's ridiculous that people can't or won't allow themselves to see the benefit that could be derived from storyline driven quests.

Panamah
10-31-2003, 02:44 PM
There are people claiming that LDoN makes EQ an arcade game, but they're the same ones that would object to having a bit of RP types of stuff, like paying homage to your gods.

Carrying this idea a little further, might be an interesting way to customize your character. Depending on the types of tasks you carry out for your diety you'd get bonuses to various abilities. For instance, if you go burn up a heathen village, you'd get + to your nuking abilities. If you attend to the sick you'd get + to your healing abilities.

Maybe at times your god would be extra pleased and give you some kind of ability, like an AA ability. Would only last awhile, but might let you do something different than you normally could. And it wouldn't be the sort of thing you could camp for. Just random, like a lightning bolt from the blue.... or like me running across s ro last night and finding the ancient cyclops up and unengaged!

Grygonos Thunderwulf
10-31-2003, 03:05 PM
i like the idea and i like it alot.but i wouldn't say an RL hour... probably half hour... make it like half hour required... full hour max. to not penalize gamers with less time to play. when you were younger (in eq) didn't you feel a slightly stronger attachment to your guild hall... i know i sure did.. and I would like to have some of that back... via things like this... i like it .. i like it... i like it.

Aly
11-01-2003, 02:35 AM
Grygnos, I've scrapped the idea of spending an hour or less in a temple just chatting with NPC's and PC's, etc. I 've decided it'd be much better to just require the quest itself in every instance. That way they socialize more, have a chance for loot, experience, and could actually have fun playing the role of their character while the do the adventure. Maybe along the way through the adventure some NPC is found that provides them with clues or an old tome is found that contains valued information. Little things that wouldn't take much effort at all to put into the game.

And thank you verah much for liking the ideas. Once I have access to a broadband connection and the funds to buy a second computer for a serverbox, I'm going to go full tilt into a Neverwinter Nights partially persistant world and I'm going to try and incorporate as many of these ideas into it as I can.

weoden
11-01-2003, 03:44 AM
Actually, this idea would be more receptive to the player base if it could be done while lfg and you could get some minor xp.

Aly
11-01-2003, 04:20 AM
I considered that, but quests were more immersive and offered a lot more oppurtunities to the players for fun. I mean think about it... once a month you gird yourself up for battle, head to the local guildhall and find out what's been happening in the past month... and then you're assigned a quest to help your guild and along the way, you learn some valuable information, gain some experience and loot, and possibly have some fun roleplaying since I'd encourange it through the use of NPC's and lots of flavor text.

Gnizmo
11-01-2003, 02:58 PM
I dunno, I dont like the sound of the idea to much. Cant place my finger on it precisly but the idea of forcing me to go and do a quest once a month or suffer the consequences is a bit much for my tastes. Having the quests there and rewarding you with something sems like a cool idea, but I'd rather be able to choose whether or not i really felt like keeping up with my old guild hall. Forcing roleplaying on those that really dont want to roleplay that much is a bad thing imo.

The idea is a little off as well. The thing is classes practice these kinda things often anyway. Rogues sneak around alot, warriors are alwys attacking live monsters and getting better, clerics presumably pray while in meditation or while camping (IE the long time inbetween where you are in the game), etc etc. Really it would throw part of the world off by doing this. In EQ you eventually become the best you can be at the skills you use for your class. I just cant see how these ideas would improve you like you suggest from the RP standpoint, which with this idea is a fairly sizeable flaw.

Now the main reason why this will never be implemented on all servers if ya ask me. Most of the players in eq do NOT want to roleplay. I cant say I blame them either. No matter how hard you try to make EQ immersive, it just wont be. You cant affect day to day things. You cant kill anyone in any permenant way. Death is unbelievably abstract for players as well. Necessary evils for a persistant mmorpg, but they also take alot out of the RP aspect. If you really like roleplaying, go hop on the FV server. On that server I say implement the idea as is, but let those they dont want to roleplay play the way they like to. Maybe some bonuses with no penalties, but honestly I think its a bad idea to penalize someone for not wanting anything to do with roleplaying. Everyone has a different playstyle, and honestly Id expect you of all people to know why trying to force people into a certain playstyle was bad.

Aly
11-02-2003, 12:39 AM
*sighs* I never said these ideas should be in EQ. Never. These are ideas for any future MMORPG. Specifically EQ2, which will have some things in it like I have been looking for. It won't have everything, but I'll take what I can get that encourages, not forces, roleplaying.

Doing a required quest once a month wouldn't really be much of a burden. Perhaps people could look forward to those required quests because there's a chance for a unique item to drop from them during that month. There could be lots of beneficial reasons why... and only one in-game detriment for not doing the quest. A small inconvienance that serves as a reminder of why the monthly quest is important.

Aaeamdar
11-02-2003, 12:25 PM
If my powers really came from my God, I am not sure a little prayer every month would make up for all the times I killed her...

Fenmarel the Banisher
11-04-2003, 03:33 AM
Anyone notice they have stopped calling them MMORPGs and are calling them MMOGs. There is a reason for this...

Aly
11-04-2003, 03:43 AM
*shrugs* FFXI is called an MMORPG and actually lives up to the name. It's good enough for me. I even meet, *gasps* real roleplayers all the time in that game. Hope SoE gets their act straight and figures out how to promote that kind of atmosphere in their games.

Gnizmo
11-05-2003, 11:15 PM
They have. Go log onto the role-playing prefered server. It is called Firona Vie. If you really want role playing there it is, and it is quite enforced.

Aly
11-06-2003, 04:43 AM
The ruleset isn't going to make or break the game. It's the actual setting of the game. EverQuest quests are just way too time intensive. They require far too much time camping a mob and it bores people. They get tired of reading anything quest/lore related and just use spoilers for everything.

I'd much rather have an interesting, fun quest that dosen't take too long to do and varies from month to moth. That alone would be reward enough for me... but then all the loot whores would bitch and moan and so they'd have to put some kind of reward in for the quest.

Anyone that does lots and lots of quests in EQ just for the sake of doing them, are masochists. Damn near all of them are just not fun. EQ is just not fun without good friends at your side and even then, it was a strain for me to dredge up any motivation to log on.

I would have quit much earlier had I actually been a true hardcore raider. I know what the atmosphere is like in most of those guilds and it would have driven me from the game faster than a newbie iksar dies to a treant at the NK druid ring.

Kulothar
11-06-2003, 09:36 AM
Aly, These are very creative Ideas and maybe SoE will read them since they do lurk here.

Some suggestions but nothing serious.

1) Have the trainers give you quests which give you an item with abiltities based on your level. Maybe a charm or augment. The item can be turned in each time you level for the next upgrade quest. This would be like the druid rusty weapon quest for newbies or the newbie spell quests.

In this case you do not have decay but the item is level limited and earned. If you chose not to do the quests you do not get the benefit nor do you get penalized.

2) Have the item decay after a month unless you do the next quest.

This has both benefit and penalty. If you do not level you cannot get a better one and have to repeat the old quest to keep what you have. If you do level you can do the old quest to keep what you have or the new quest for the upgrade. If you don't quest it rots away.

Examples of quick quests (ie 15 to 90 mins) could be from:
1) vigilance ie: guarding something for x hrs from being attacked and destroyed.
2) Skill based where you have to obtain the items.
3) Hunting ie: track down and kill the beast or give it a charmed carrot.
4) Messenger service in a dangerous area.
5) Body Guard/escort
and they get longer and tougher with level. The disadvantage of this is that twinks would have the advantage and unless pocket instanced so that only the quested PC and do it, outside help could trivialize them. And then of course they could get bugged.