**some spoiler info**




Welp after seeing matrix on opening day and thinking it over i have to say i am very disappointed.

First the movie started off very slowly then began to pick up and then rather rapidly. I was wathcing the machines breech the docks and i was like wow. Then the final battle between Neo and Smith was very poorly done IMO. the ending jsut left me completely unsatisfied. Can't quiet but my finger on it.

Even though i was very let down due to high expectations i still think it was a kick ass movie and really wish this wasn't the end

I was very dissapointed with both Matrix 2 and 3. They should have left good enough alone with the storyline formed by 1.

And why the hell did they have to waste time explaining why there was a different actress for the oracle?

because the orginal one died.

I have heard/read nothing but negative things about 3 i think that means i shall be waiting to rent it on video :D

Personally, I think the third was better than the second, but that's almost impossible NOT to do. I agree though, that it should have been left at the first. Neither of the other two come anywhere close to replicating it.

And yes, the actress for the Oracle died in between the two films. That's why they try to explain why she's different.

In terms of special effects, 3 is definately much better than 2 and I would say on par with 1. The battle of the dock had my jaws drop a little. The final fight scene however should have been a couple minutes longer, it felt too... rushed. Rushed because there was no attempt at building up a sense of desperation... rather the fight felt kind of meaningless given how neo finally destroyed smith. I mean, nothing explains why neo couldn't have just destroyed smith the way he did right from the start. Why go thru all those fight just for it to end the way it did?

The mistake they made was they forgot the major theme of the first movie and took the trilogy in a direction it shouldn't have gone. The whole fatalism vs. making choices theme didn't play very well, and left a big empty feeling in the end. Matrix 1 was way cool because, well, the Matrix is a kickass place. Morpheus, Trinity, et. al. are god-like there, and Neo is trying to make sense of it. Even after he (and us) learns the truth, there is still something way-cool about the Matrix. In 2 & 3, the coolness factor of the Matrix, the whole reality vs. simulation thing, just disappears. You could care less about the people plugged into the Matrix anymore, and they try to get you to care about Zion. But Zion is a ****hole, and they are really weird there. They don't wear the leather they wear in the Matrix, but rather potato sacks. Zion sucks, and in the end it is hard to care about it. And having Smith nearly destroy the Matrix just makes you care less about the people stuck there.

The last two movies had great special effects and some good action scenes (car chase and Zion fight) but the "point" of them is stupid, and the characters are harder and harder to care about.

I did enjoy watching them though. Worth the money to see it. I probably won't see Revolutions a second time (in the theaters) just as I didn't watch Reloaded a second time until it was on DVD.

The Matrix Revolutions is a very, very detailed and fast moving movie. Only the most attentive and observant movie watchers will come out of this movie with a positive opinion.

When I came out of the theatre after Revolutions was finished, I was a bit confused. Sure, Revolutions has some great action set ups I admit. The Smith/Neo fight and the "battle for zion" were all astounding and really make this movie worth watching even if you don't know what's going on. If you closely look at the mechs you can actually make out individual scratches on the metal as they fight. Now THAT'S some good CGI. Hugo Weaving as Agent Smith turns in his best performance out of the 3 movies, and (gasp) we even see Keanu Reeves express some emotions in this movie.

However, despite all this, Revolutions will disappoint most because it leaves too many things up in the air for the audience to "assume". Things aren't spelled out for us like in the first 2 movies. Or, at the very least, spelled out so enough for us to understand the current scene.

In the first matrix movie, we had Morpheus explain the nature of the matrix and the real world very effectively. In reloaded, we had the Oracle expand the ideas and purposes of the matrix before the burly brawl which was all followed by the stupefying Architect explanation towards the end.

In revolutions, there was nothing. Most of the plot is left to assumption, which is bad because not everyone may assume the same thing.

When the Architect met up with the Oracle in the park at the end, I instantly thought: "Yes, finally some answers. This should be good." Instead I got nothing. A vague peace treaty and that was it. In the end, Revolutions feels like it cheats you. You want more answers, you want closure.....but you don't get it. You get and ending which explains a couple of things, and then leaves the rest in the air. That's not how you end a trilogy.

Well, like part 1 and 2 Revolutions definately offers enough eye candy to pay and watch it in a cinema.

The big battle for Zion is a blast to watch, no doubt.

The rest of the movie lacks some inspiration. After leaving the cinema i thought: "Hey, the should have spent more time on writing the script before handing the movie to special fx dep."

Even the only gunfight of the movie (the fight to gain access to the merowinger club) is just a poor remake of the spectacular Matrix 1 fight to free Morpheus.

The "answer the questions of sequel 1 and 2" part is very disappointing as well. I got the feeling the producers doesn't care anymore to offer logic based soulutions to the audience.

Or perhaps you simply want something more concrete than they want to give you.

I found the Arthurian (as in King Arthur) references at the end to be interesting, along with the threads on reincarnation.

Originally posted by Rahjeir
The Matrix Revolutions is a very, very detailed and fast moving movie. Only the most attentive and observant movie watchers will come out of this movie with a positive opinion.



i could not disagree with you more. For anyone paying a decent enough amount of attention, there will be flaws. In revolutions there were ALOT of flaws. Example: neo was in a coma, they brought him out of the matrix after the went to see the oracle. When he came out of the matrix he was unjacked.... but he was never jacked in in the first place. There were so many quarks like this that alone made the movie unenjoyable.

The ending was horrible as well. If i wanted to see that sort of fight, i would have de-aged myself to 13 and watched dragon ball z. I can remember fights from that show that were almost exactly like the neo vs agent smith fight in revolutions. The park scene was also absolutely unnecessary. and pointless as well. The architect said he couldnt lie be cause he was a program... yet a program earlier in the movie said he could love, and also seemingly make a child (WTF?!?) so they made it clear that machines can supposedly have emotions or human qualities yet.... then went back on this.

The wachowski brothers simply owe their fans more than this peice of dribble that we've been handed, and i wouldnt be surprised if they are in need of bodyguards soon.

One of the films in the Animatrix involved a boy who became selfaware without any intervention. I am pretty sure this is the same Kid who ended up saving the day by take over the mecha suit to get the gates open so Morpheus and the others could get inside.

The name of the original robot town was called Zero One according to the Animatrix. 01 is binary for one, so I wonder if if it has some connection to Neo (Neo being an anagram for one).

Also, If you take the first two letters from the name of the original robot town, you get Zeon - which is a somewhat slant rhymn for Zion. Could the human town of Zion really be the original machine town Zero One? It certainly would explain all the high tech equipment found in a human settlement dedicated to destroying machines.

Funny website on Matrix ==>> http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/resolutions.html

:p

This site offers some answers:

Matrix Revolutions Review (http://movies.yahoo.com/mvc/dfrv?mid=1808402448&s=&rvid=255-69646&i=2&spl=&ys=UuzsfjrphnFmlvbrodHv4w--)

It still didn't make me feel any better, but some things were explained, and my simple mind was grateful for it. :)

So, how does the little indian child fit in? I really didn't understand what she was doing there, other than perhaps showing that computer programs can fall in love and make decisions too. I figured, she was just a "child process"... har, har.

Wow, this guy really really is on a roll with digging symbolism out of this movie: http://movies.yahoo.com/mvc/dfrv?mid=1808402448&rvid=255-71922&i=48&s=&spl=&ys=rH_iCVCf0fXiA6FBNrHHiw--

Originally posted by Araxx Darkroot
because the orginal one died.

I know the original one died. That doesn't mean they had to make up a reason why the Oracle looked different. It sounded as poorly contrived as it was. o

Originally posted by Scirocco
Or perhaps you simply want something more concrete than they want to give you.

I found the Arthurian (as in King Arthur) references at the end to be interesting, along with the threads on reincarnation.

I think you are giving the producers and writers too much credit.

I think they refused to close the series because even something as dissapointing as Revolutions made 200 million worldwide in its first weekend. It'll make plenty of money...and if they create an ending which suggests its not all over yet, they can put out another one or three movies and still make money.

Have to agree with Aidon.

Quote from the site i mentioned above:

If you're wondering whether or not there will be a Matrix 4, picture 2.5 billion dollars (that's what the first trilogy will make when all is said and done). If you're having trouble picturing this, it's three stacks of 100-dollar bills, each stack as tall as the Empire State Building. Now picture someone offering that money to a Multinational corporation like Time-Warner, and then imagine that corporation not taking it.

Profit > anything else

(SoE customers should know better)

**SPOILER ** somewhere in here

Even though i was very let down due to high expectations i still think it was a kick ass movie and really wish this wasn't the end

I tried as much as possible not to have any expectations of the movie, and it worked. I walked away enjoying a movie with ALOT of special effects. Overall I enjoyed it but I did think the fight scene between Smith and Neo was a little tacky. I believe most peoples dissappointment stems from 2 facts, the end didn't resolve anything, no side won. As my cousin put it "A Draw, Who the F#$% ends a movie in a draw?" and 2 - it didn't answer many questions that were raised by watchers of the second movie - and that movie left alot of issues out in the open linguring.

Any way I enjoyed it, I think the Dock Fight scene made the movie for me, I think if that was moved to the end somehow I would have walked away with alot more satisfaction.

i could not disagree with you more. For anyone paying a decent enough amount of attention, there will be flaws. In revolutions there were ALOT of flaws. Example: neo was in a coma, they brought him out of the matrix after the went to see the oracle. When he came out of the matrix he was unjacked.... but he was never jacked in in the first place. There were so many quarks like this that alone made the movie unenjoyable.


You don't get how Neo was in the matrix without being plugged in? That one is kinda simple, in my thinking. Neo wasn't human. In short he was a computer program. Agent Smith was The evil form of Neo. He gained all the same powers as Neo. Smiths power to go into the real world, proves Neo could do the samething. Smith being Neo's evil half explains why Neo must die to kill Smith. Equal power with no way to win. However, Once Neo loses Smith loses his purpose, thus making the source delete Smith. (Second movie explains all that).

In the ending scene the plaque next to the park bench says "In the loving memory of Thomas Anderson". Neo's real name. So Neo is infact dead so to speak. Neo was the matrix verison of Jesus. That is just plain to see. (I don't even follow religion and I saw that).

Thinking this way also can set up for the idea that the Matrix and the Real World are one and the same. Which is what the second movie suggests.

I suspect they tried to delve into the schizophrenic style of Philip Dick and failed miserably.

In their defence, even Bladerunner had difficulties portraying the nuances of a Dick tale, and it was actually based on one.

I still stand by my thoughts that they purposefully left the Trilogy without a satisfactory ending in order to milk more money.

Neo was the matrix verison of Jesus. That is just plain to see

Especially after he died and was lifted up, he looked totally crucified. At the time I remember thinking, "is he supposed to look like christ on the crucifix? All strategically pieced etc?" Then I decided I was reading too much into it.

I suppose you can look at a lot of matrix as the christ story. He had his disciples, his Judas (first movie), he brought the dead back to life, etc.

Was he a program though? That hadn't occured to me until you mentioned it Rahjer. Or was he a human that somehow crossed into the machine world and Smith was a program that somehow crossed into the human world?

I'm glad it wasn't just a standard "Chosen One" plot. I know people like their movies to all wrap up into "happily ever after" but that gets so boring after awhile. Life is more complex than that!

About the replacement Oracle, yeah, I thought they could have just passed on trying to explain why she was a different lady. I probably wouldn't have noticed really. But they brought attention to it and then I was thinking, "hey, wonder what happened to the lady that was the Oracle in the other two movies? Did she die?" And that kind of broke into my watching experience.

I was strangely able to remain kind of detached while watching this, which isn't something I usually do in movies. Maybe it was because I didn't like the 2nd movie and figured #3 was going to be a bummer too so I didn't suspend my inner critic and just go with it.

You don't get how Neo was in the matrix without being plugged in? That one is kinda simple, in my thinking. Neo wasn't human. In short he was a computer program. Agent Smith was The evil form of Neo. He gained all the same powers as Neo. Smiths power to go into the real world, proves Neo could do the samething. Smith being Neo's evil half explains why Neo must die to kill Smith. Equal power with no way to win. However, Once Neo loses Smith loses his purpose, thus making the source delete Smith. (Second movie explains all that).

1) they took him out of the train station. <end of scene>
2) the car scene is AFTER he wakes up from the coma, you just dont see, you should assume it.

he wakes from the coma, and plugs on to see the oracle, as simple as that.

But Neo is not a program

Smith only gains the will to choose freely what he wants, just as humans do. He chooses not to return to the source and because he was destroyed in the Matrix 1 (by having neo enter his body) he also "gains Neo's powers" because he was connected to Neo when he destroyed him. He says so in Reloaded in the park fight.

Or was he a human that somehow crossed into the machine world and Smith was a program that somehow crossed into the human world?
this is what happened plain and simple.

In Revolutions they say that Neo is "connected" to the machine world, or better said The One, for as far as the machine realm extends. So, this might mean that the jacks in their heads are not just hardware connections, but might also receive some kind of radio waves, and that Neo is the only one who can actually perceive this (this is MY assumption as I'm writing) as we can see by the way he perceives the Machine world after becoming blinded.

Also, when Neo wakes from the coma, I can see it two ways why he was jacked out:

1) As Nimchip has explained;

2) They Jacked him in while he was in a coma, as they needed somehow to un-jack him, and after rescuing him from Mobil Ave. (Limbo) and taking him into the REAL Matrix they could disconnect him per-se.

Also, Smith is not destroyed because Neo is destroyed. Smith is destroyed because Neo sacrifices himself so The Matrix can get an exact LOCK on his position, and hence be able to delete him. Just like trying to delete a virus from your computer, you can delete all the infected files you want, but until you delete (or cure) the actual virus, you're still infected, and for that you have to track it down.

If you look closely at the end of the film (or not so closely, this isn't really obscured enough) you see The Architect talking to The Oracle. The Architect is white, and The Oracle is Black. Just like chess pieces, and each of the machines (agents) which play for The Architect, and each of the humans, which play for The Oracle, are just their pawns, horses, priests, etc.
Sometimes the Queen has to sacrifice herself to gain an advantage (The Oracle letting herself get "Smith'd") and she ends up winning because of this.

In the end, I do believe the Humans are better off than the Machines, because the Humans were going to get totally wiped by the machines in Zion. Neo saved both the machines and the humans, and the game was going to restart between The Oracle and The Architect, but this time without the constant persecution from the machines as had been going on before.

The little Indian girl I do not understand yet. Will have to see what her parent programs were, so if anyone remembers please say so. This might determine what kind of program the little girl is and we might get some further insight into this.

Originally posted by Araxx Darkroot
Just like trying to delete a virus from your computer, you can delete all the infected files you want, but until you delete (or cure) the actual virus, you're still infected, and for that you have to track it down.

Not really a good analogy, because the infection caused by a computer virus (as long as the virus itself isn't bugged) is a perfect replication of itself so that you can take any executable file on the computer, move it to another and run it, and it'll start to spread.

I think her mother was a systems programmer and her father was the chief engineer on a power plant? something like that.

And did anyone notice the fractals in the intro? I wonder what their purpose was, because fractals are infinite, so maybe that, along with that zoom out to a single matrix sign hints at infinite complexity? I'm not sure why they decided to add the fractals at any rate, they seemed a bit out of place going by 1 and 2.

The little girl was the "offspring" of two artificial intelligences. She was a newborn "AI", but did not yet have a "function" in the Matrix.

Her mother and father took her out of the Matrix, to buy her time to find a function. (AIs aka Programs without a function are deleted).

In the end of the movie, the Oracle asked the little girl "Did you do that?" when looking at a Sunrise. The little girl responded "I made it for Neo, do you think he will like it?" So in the end the little girl/program finally found a function in the Matrix (To create/modify sunrises).

---

I am currently writing my own "alternate" ending script to this movie. Because I did not find this ending to be satisfactory.

Smith only gains the will to choose freely what he wants, just as humans do.

Well, the little indian girl is a counterproof to this theory imho. Her parents want to free her from the matrix (and it's said, that alot of other programs visited the merovingian for the same purpose).

For me this seems to be an evidence that ever since the matrix was installed, there have been programs which were free to choose what they want to do (In part 2 the merovingian mentions that he is older than the current matrix.)

Ah! Good point about the little girl and the sunsets/sunrises.

I didn't initially draw the conclusion that Neo caused Smith to be deleted, I figured he was able to exert his will somehow to destroy Smith once he had been absorbed. Kind of like the Oracle was able to exert her will.

Her parents want to free her from the matrix (and it's said, that alot of other programs visited the merovingian for the same purpose).


Actually, that's not true. What they wanted to do was free her from the machine world, and that involved getting her into the Matrix through the backdoor. The parents went back to the machine world (where they were programs with a purpose).

The "machine world" and the Matrix are not the same.

In the end of the movie, the Oracle asked the little girl "Did you do that?" when looking at a Sunrise. The little girl responded "I made it for Neo, do you think he will like it?" So in the end the little girl/program finally found a function in the Matrix (To create/modify sunrises).

Or the little girl becomes the next "Choosen One" and is able to shaped the matrix at her will. Remember there was 7 "Choosen Ones" (Neo made the 7th). She might be the 8th. The matrix is a repeating record. hehehe

The Oracle is her guardain. We all know the Oracle teaches people how to change the matrix. Remember the first movie? The little girl also had a instant connection with Neo. Why? Hrm, could it be they have the same "purpose"? Really their are endless ways to this story.

That's what I hated about the 3rd movie. I hope they make a book to tell use more and add on to the series.


I refuse to believe Neo was human. In the history of the matrix 7 people have been labeled "The Choosen One"? That's just alittle out there. Even Jesus only saved the world one time, if you follow religion. In my mind without a doubt, Neo was a computer program. His purpose? To give humans hope. Give the Matrix sub-control over the humans who wake up. Second movie does say there are sub-control systems outside the matrix.

I could by way off, and I might as well be right. We don't really know, because part 3 had such a bad ending. A good story teller tells you a story. Not to make to guess what happened after the story is told.

Neo did way too many things in the "real world" to be human. IMHO. Even in the first movie, remember how much info Neo took in , in 10hours? The OP tells Morp "It's been 10 hours stright, he's a machine". All those little things, make you go hrm. Was he even real?

What they wanted to do was free her from the machine world, and that involved getting her into the Matrix through the backdoor.

Hmm, i am certain in the german version of the film the indian father said: We want to free her from the matrix.

Perhaps the script translator mixed it up or my attention was on Popcorn.

But anyway, Nimchips statement was: "Agent Smith just gained the ability to do what he wants, just like humans."

But from my point of view all AIs of the Matrix have a free will. When torturing Morpheus in Part 1, Agent Smith said he can't leave the matrix on his own purpose, but he desperatly wants to get out. This happened long before he was intruded by Neo at the end of sequel 1.

Several questions are arising on this. For example: Do the machines have a human-like society? Are some AIs Masters and others slaves? Or do they have a borg-like nature? Do the machines make a difference between AI with physical machine body and matrix-only AI?

The offered answers are confusing, because the end of the movie shows: "Yes, they are borg, there is only one mastermind controlling them all." But the indian family (love, child, seeking hideout) is just the opposite of this idea. Considering both (and Agent Smiths lacking ability to leave the matrix at will) one may conclude the machines mastermind is a dictator like saddam hussein, e.g. controlling, threatening, supressing his own minions and the machine world is based on order and obey only.

Originally posted by Rahjeir
Or the little girl becomes the next "Choosen One" and is able to shaped the matrix at her will. Remember there was 7 "Choosen Ones" (Neo made the 7th). She might be the 8th. The matrix is a repeating record. hehehe

Don't forget, in 2 when you saw the architect, he had video images of all the earlier ones in the background, and all of them looked exactly like Neo (ie was Keanu).

refuse to believe Neo was human. In the history of the matrix 7 people have been labeled "The Choosen One"? That's just alittle out there. Even Jesus only saved the world one time, if you follow religion. In my mind without a doubt, Neo was a computer program. His purpose? To give humans hope. Give the Matrix sub-control over the humans who wake up. Second movie does say there are sub-control systems outside the matrix.

I think you're trying to eek too much mileage out of the Jesus analogy. This is Sci fi! Remember in the Foundation books the guys were able to predict how people would respond based on large scale of people, forget what they called that science.

Anyway, it could just be The Architect learned that based upon the artificial reality they created that a certain number of people would see through it and be able to escape it, and that every now and then one would break free.

Of course, that doesn't explain all the Neo's looking alike, but they don't explain how they get new humans in the matrix, clone them I suppose. But if you had a trouble-maker like Neo why wouldn't you just go hunt down all the clones and kill 'em?

Besides, the whole basis of the story is pretty stupid really, funny how no one mentions that. A bunch of humans providing electricity for machines? Why not use cows instead? They're probably a lot easier to take care and don't form revolts all the time.

Well maody the problem is that Agent Smith was in fact controlled by purpose. At that time, he did what he did because that was his purpose... once he saw Neo made a decision, "to be the one" to "not give up and die" there in that hallway or "to rebel against the agents, to fight them" (others just ran from them) i think Smith learned he could make a decision to gain a better purpose: to destroy everything.

You don't see the programs doing what they wish until you get to Reloaded. Even the oracle is doing her purpose by studying human emotions, decisions, reactions and predicting them.

You might be right though..

A bunch of humans providing electricity for machines? Why not use cows instead? They're probably a lot easier to take care and don't form revolts all the time.

Hehe, yes. Obvious question that is.

Another disturbing issue of Matrix:Revolutions is: If Neo & Trinity are able to fly higher than the clouds and see the sun, why can't the machines do as well to get energy? Or why don't they just use nuklear energy? One or two nuklear power stations are able to provide as much energy as 6 billion human bodies. Machines capable of using gravity effects for their own movement should know the secrets of nuklear energy.

But perhaps the machines are using more than human energy. Similar to the Otherland novel they may need the human brains processing power to get what we call "creativity" into their systems. This way, the machines are living in a symbiotic arrangement with humans.

Hehe, Matrix is a nice source of pointless speculations.

just got back from seeing it...

pointlesswasteoftime = Matrix 3


I think I've only seen more cheese in a deli (a BIG deli)...Trinity death scene - die already!