I really gotta recommend this guys books. Some of the most innovation fiction I've read in a long time.

You know the typical plots... Bad guy, good guys... conflict... good guys win. Right? Well, this guy takes that formula and throws it right out. Yay! So refreshing.

The characters are like onions. They have layers. The complexity of the characters, the relationships between the characters, their loyalties and their motivations. You end up liking the bad guys and rooting for them sometimes. Sometimes you want to slap the good guys around a bit. But the end result is always an excellent story that leaves you pondering it for a few days.

This guy is an awesome writer.

He's also a Byzantium freak. A lot of the settings for his books take place in a era similar to that culture.

Ok, first book I read was: Tigana
It's a fantasy novel, but it isn't massively heavy on the fantasy/magical components. This one is really great.

Next I read Lions of Al-Rassad. No magical stuff in this one. It was about 3 cultures about to meet head on in conflict and some people from those cultures getting their sympathies mixed up with the other sides. I really liked this book. I liked the conflicted loyalties and the choices that everyone made were torturous to watch at times, as a reader.

Finally, I really recommend the Saratine Mosiacist seriest (2 books). The first one, Sailing to Sarantium, is again set in this Byzantium culture. A little mystical/magical stuff creeps in, but not much. The first story really sets you up for the 2nd book where the **** hits the fan.

I blame the second book on several sleepless nights when I just couldn't put it down.

K

I believe that it is a general rule by the publishers that be (this includes movie makers) that fantasy books must be black and white and have really shallow characters and weak plots. Terry Goodkind sold alot of books that weren't like that and now I suppose this Guy Kay is doing the same. They are much better than the shallow, plotless books the publishing companies try to push that are generally safe but at the same time tell no story at all.

So, when you run out of Kay books, grab some Goodkind books. His first one is still good even though you can see he had to appease the publishers a bit once you read some of his later ones where he's made a money making name for himself.

I'll do that!

It's funny, there was a rumour that someone spread on Drinal about me that I was Terry Goodkind. :p I used to get tells from people saying, "Are you really Terry Goodkind? I really love your books"

You left out The Fionavar Tapestry which are, to be honest, the only books of his I (a) liked (a lot) and (b) read all the way through.

Gah, I read the first 5 or so Sword of Truth books. I never thought Terry Goodkind was a very good writer.

Read the Wheel of Time books...then read the Sword of Truth books immediately after, and you'll sit there wondering why Robert Jordan hasn't sued Goodkind for taking his good ideas and absolutely trashing them with poor writing.

Or if you want to read REALLY good books read Neil Gaiman.

I tried to read the Wheel of Time books, I really tried. Probably got at least 100 pages into the first on....

You left out The Fionavar Tapestry which are, to be honest, the only books of his I (a) liked (a lot) and (b) read all the way through.


Gah! Some people's taste are in their mouths.... ;) Just kidding you. I haven't read the Fionavar Tapestry books yet.

Guy Kay isn't for everyone. I'm a person who can stick with a slow-moving plot line to see what develops. But I know that isn't everyone cuppa.

If you like slow moving read Allistar McCall Smith's "detective" series which starts with the No 1 Ladies Detective Agency.

Reading them is like taking a long hot bath. But in a good way.

BTW ogres are like onions.

The Fionavar Tapestries were the first I read by him as well. They were also his only books at the time so far as I know :o I loved them, and have read them repeatedly. I read a couple more stand alones as they came out, but I couldn't seem to get started on the Sarantium grouping. Probably because I like the classic fantasy settings/themes a great deal, too many years of reading mythology I guess.

I read Terry Goodkind's first book. Very well done, a great read that I couldn't put down. It also gave me nightmares for weeks afterwards, and as a result I've never read another of his, and probably never will either.

Jordan's Wheel of Time books put me to sleep. /shrug

I love Eddings books, but I suggest choosing one series and leaving it at that. I always enjoy them, but they do rather sound alike. I highly recommend the Magician series by Raymond Feist as well, though my interest dwindled after the first half dozen or so books. Another fantasy author I enjoy is Mercedes Lackey, especially her Valdemar books. It's a bit difficult to start now though I think -- if you read them in the order in which they are written they make the most sense, but you can also see a substantial change in writing style and skill, as the earlier books are a bit simplistic in comparison I would say, and the primary character is probably easier to identify with if you are HS/College age (as I was when I read them) whilst the primary characters in later books are easier to identify with as an adult. As always, YMMV :)

/sigh I am getting old.

My favourite fantasy authors seem to be either dead or out of vogue now - Zelazny, Moorcock et al. The only one I still like is Gemmell and he is like the McDonalds of fantasy writing.

The series that Kay wrote was in order:

Tigana
A Song for Arbonne
The Lions of Al-Rassan

Although it's not really a series that has any order. More of a common writing idea. As much as I liked Goodkinds first book, it doesn't hold a candle to Kay's ability (imho). Goodkind sort of lost it similar to Jordan in stretching out a series far longer that it needed to be.

Back on track, if you haven't read either of these 3 Kay books, you're really missing out in a good engrossing story.

The first book of the Sarantine series is not real engrossing plot-wise. It just seems like a pretty good story about this guy going to the big capital city. Nothing hugely earthshattering happens. But then the next book all holy hell breaks loose. Which isn't to say I didn't find the first book uninteresting, I liked it. It just wasn't a book to keep me awake all night turning pages. However, book two was...

And what a surprise! It ends after two books and doesn't get thrashed endlessly in even more sequels.

BTW ogres are like onions.

But what about parfaits? Parfaits have layers and they're delicious. :) (I saw that last night too)

/sigh I am getting old.

My favourite fantasy authors seem to be either dead or out of vogue now - Zelazny, Moorcock et al. The only one I still like is Gemmell and he is like the McDonalds of fantasy writing.

Heh, its actually hard to find Moorcock anymore. I've read the Immortal Warrior series...but I can't find any of his Elric stuff anywhere.

And I love Zelazny. Amber series was just awesome (on a side note...I just saw a Law and Order rerun where the defense attorney was a crazy short chaotic guy named Dworken...and he was accused of "workin his magic" by the prosecutor, I almost died laughing).

Another good author is George Wolfe. Book of the New Sun series was great, a little bit esoteric, but very good reading. Its amusing to read the various tales told in that series and try to place which famous books/stories/myths they are based on.

Of course, as far as fantasy goes...the Dark Tower series by Stephen King rocks. I still haven't read the latest one though. I also suggest Eyes of the Dragon, by King. Its mainly meant as a children's book..but its still a very good read.

And, of course, my favorite of all series, "Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn" by Tad Williams. As I've mentioned on here quite a few times =D.

Just a great series.

God dammit I hd stuff typed then the mouse wheel accidentally spun the forum jump pull down... so annoying...

Anyway, the Amber series is nothing short of brilliant. I love that series. I bought the big book of Amber with all the novels in one and have read it several times. His two last books (which were completed/co-authored by Jane Lindskold) Lord Demon, and Donnerjack, are also both very good. The New Amber Trilogy by Betancourt, however, is a pale imitation of real Zelazny. Dont waste your time.

I liked the Elric series too. I found them all at the library a few years ago and spent a couple weeks reading them. Good fun, almost impossible to find in stores now (some are out of print) but they can turn up on the internet if you know where to look.

Still struggling in my re-read of Jordan's Wheel of Time to try and remember everything that was going on... That series just tapered off so badly... 8(

Two other of my all time fav series... Julian May's Galactic Milieu series... from the Pleistocene Saga through to Magnificat, just great stuff. Maybe not strictly Fantasy, but kinda crossover in the Pleistocene series anyway.

The other would have to be David Brin's Uplift series. All the books are good (there's like 6 in the series and one or two +short stories in the same universe) even though the 2nd trilogy is slow to start.

Tia

I have everything Moorcock wrote. I first started reading my dad's first editions (long gong, what was I thinking?) when I was...um.....quite young.

Zelazny came to a con in New Zealand shortly before he died :( and I have a number of his books signed, sadly they are mostly my reading copies so in pretty crappy condition. I have everything he ever wrote too. Lord of Light to my mind remains one of the seminal blendings of science fiction and fantasy and still reads well today.

If you are looking for out-of-print books, apart from the obvious ebay and amazon, try abebooks.com. I have used them a lot, they have a lot of ex library books and the like, I have found the descriptions of quality and service to be excellent, although some books can be a bit pricey.

I last read Moorcock and Zelazny in High School. /sigh I did really enjoy the Elric and Amber books respectively though :)

Yeah, the David Brin books were good. But they'd fall under Sci Fi category I think. BTW, a friend of mine went to school with David Brin. They played DnD together once I think, or maybe that was Ray Feist, I forget.

Not all of Brin's stuff is strictly Sf - the rather silly "Practice Effect" barely qualifies.

Orson Scott Card is another who wrote some great fantasy (until he got sidetracked on that whole Alivi Maker thing) - Wyrms is an outstanding work of fantasy for example.

Can we pretend the Practice Effect didn't happen?

Yeah, OSC is great. LOVED the one with the little kid playing games... Ender's Game. Although, like most authors he really should stop after the first book and not write endless sequels. Also, he's written some horror books that I thought were decent.

The Maker ones got a little too forumlaic for me. Good/Evil, choosen one... blah. It's been done to death.

No one mentioned Tanith Lee. Her stuff was interesting. She often took themes and twisted them. For instance, she rewrote some of the Grimes Fairy Tales so that the good guys were often the bad guys. That was fun.

I liked Zelazny when I first read it, not sure I'd like it now. I should try to reread it. I enjoyed the first few novels about the Crystal Singer, can't recall the author now though. But I read those ages ago.

Of course, what got me interested in Sci Fi to begin with was Kurt Vonnegut. Man, he was twisted!

I think I tried reading Moorcock once and found the novel to be incredibly offensive to me as a woman. I don't know if everything he wrote was like that or if I just wandered into his one indulgence in total male chauvanism.

I loved and still love David Gemmell, although I agree with Greggo, he likes to reuse plots a lot, but he also likes revisiting characters, so you actually get to know them. Unfortunately I've got the memory retention capabilities of a gnat, so I usually end up reading three more books to figure out who the hell the guy in the fourth book was.

I haven't read anything more engrossing than Sunday comic treasuries in a while though. I'm up to my eyeballs in Windows 2003 stuff that the joy of reading has sort of faded.

And, of course, my favorite of all series, "Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn" by Tad Williams. As I've mentioned on here quite a few times =D.

Just a great series.

Here here!

More in the scifi vein, but... Neal Stephenson /nod/nod. Snow Crash = best evah (I even find myself reading it more often than American Gods or Good Omens...both Neil Gaimen books, btw).

Neil Gaiman is good, but seems to start out with a great idea and after a bit it just turns routine... reminds me of Pratchett a lot.

Crystal Singer was Anne McCaffery btw.

Back in Fantasy, not sure if anyone mentioned the Magician series by Raymond E Feist. Good stuff (and Betrayal at Krondor was an awesome game too btw.) He also wrote another one called Faerie Tale which creeped me out (but in a good way!)

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/index.html <-- is my reference for authors and series and such, also has links to home pages and stuff.

Yeah, Faerie Tale was good! Just reread it a bit ago.

Speaking of Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett...

...read Good Omens! :)

I would struggle to think of two authors more different than Pratchett and Gaiman. Good Omens was, IMHO, so good because Gaiman put some edge on Pratchett and Pratchett lightened up Gaiman a bit.

Card didnt just write sequels to Enders Game (I actually preferred Speaker for the Dead, everything after was dross) he wrote prequels as well (Ender's Shadow etc).

I was overly harsh on Gemmell (or maybe not, I quite like McDonalds) as I have enjoyed everything he has written. Great airplane books.

Neal Stephenson....now there is a really smart guy who just keeps thinking up things he really wants to tell you and cant resist putting them in his books. I really like his stuff. Necronimicon was great. But I think he could really use a stiffer-backed editor to help him lose a few pages.

Hmm...I dont recall Moorcock being overly misogynistic or chauvinistic. A lot of his characters are rather androgenous and sexual ambiguous (like the Dancers at the End of Time). I always thought the Runestaff series would make a great role playing game, with the neat mix of fantasy and technology.

Neil Gaiman is good, but seems to start out with a great idea and after a bit it just turns routine... reminds me of Pratchett a lot.

Crystal Singer was Anne McCaffery btw.

Back in Fantasy, not sure if anyone mentioned the Magician series by Raymond E Feist. Good stuff (and Betrayal at Krondor was an awesome game too btw.) He also wrote another one called Faerie Tale which creeped me out (but in a good way!)

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/index.html <-- is my reference for authors and series and such, also has links to home pages and stuff.

Faerie Tale was awesome. And I love every author mentioned in the last few posts here. :)