View Full Forums : irony of druids wishlist and changing desires
03-03-2004, 02:14 PM
Ever since GOD, I have found a couple ironies consider druid balance threads going all the way back to the original petition.
Every time Druid balance has come up, the possibility of Druid Master of Animals approach has been compared to Necro Master of Undead. Usually this has only focused on Charm Disparity. But it has often brought up Mez/Slow line. As Necros have these lines vs Undead, but Druids do not vs Animals.
Many people used to point out that Druids should have had these lines.
And many many more people ((Myself included)) used to reply "No we don't want such junky changes. As they could prevent us from getting more useful/needed changes."
Am I the only one find it ironic that I was so against wasting time arguing for those abilities, only to find in GOD that those abilities would be extremely valuable?
If druids only handled Animals as well as Necro handled Undead. Heh.
03-03-2004, 06:20 PM
The devs can make one aspect to this game more important than others. The real question is whether druids want to be better at grouping/raiding or soloing or what balance should be struck between the two. I do think that druids get the shaft at the begining of expansions but regain value as expansions progress and the need for specialists wanes.
03-04-2004, 08:16 AM
Unfortunately it isn't as simple as how good we are at raiding vs. grouping vs. soloing. With a single expansion release, the very definition of "good" in any of those roles can change drastically.
Before PoP, for example, one spell (Tunare's Renewal) added a fair little chunk of raiding desirability to the druid class. When PoP was released, we suddenly had exp and raid zones with mobs that hit much harder than we'd had in any of the zones we used to group or raid in.
Suddenly, the emphasis shifted from the basic healer role of keeping tanks alive, to being capable of keeping anyone alive who happened to cross the aggro line -- and one round of unmitigated aggro had become a much bigger deal than it had ever been before.
GoD has introduced a few elements which will once again have the druid class examining its role and wondering if our spells and abilities are enough to provide ample desirability for grouping and raiding, and to some degree soloing.
From how the class evolved over the past year or so, I believe druids have been left in fairly decent shape for grouping and raiding, even though we're still further behind the curve in both nuking and healing than we probably should be. By now at least, most druids who are in active raiding guilds have been able to obtain mana preservation and/or improved healing focus to enhance their 61+ spells.
However, I also believe we were pretty much shafted in the AA department this time around. The one ability most of us anticipated greatly, Secondary Forte, ended up being a bust. Initially we had thought this was to be the saving grace of our very 'duel-natured' class; the evocation druid would no longer be struggling when called upon for healing, and the alteration druid wouldn't find his mana bar wasting away every time he wanted to contribute some DPS with a few nukes. /shrug
I don't know if we'd be short-sighted in lobbying for greater animal abilities just because they might be handy in the current expansion. There could be no animals at all in the next one.
What I really wish is that EQ's dev team would put their heads together so our new spells for each expansion were more appropriate and in-tune for handling new encounters, mobs, and environments introduced by that expansion. Instead, they give us the same spells we already have, with slightly different numbers; nothing very original in concept, little if anything geared towards the expansion's themes.
03-04-2004, 11:55 AM
Well, unfortunately there never has been an EQ dev strong enough (politically?) to set druids into the same niche that other games do. I doubt that I would ever campaign for a greater ability to control plants and animals in EQ simply because it would make the druid "Master of none". If plants and animals were as logically tagged as undead, then it would make sense to discuss it further.
Yes, druids can solo pretty well, but the question remains... where? Solo spots typically depend on several factors, and when those factors are met the area becomes a solo area for so many other classes as well. Some solo better than druids and some solo less effectively, but the area is, nonetheless taken up by oh so MANY players. And these areas are as common as charmable plants.
PoP, LDoN, GoD... recent expansions have pushed druids to groups and raids. It makes us more "social" in a mmorpg! If so, then why do I interact MORE with friends and guildmates when I am soloing? /shrug And while it's nice to be wanted, it would still be nice to be MOST wanted in some area :) We are "substitutes"... "fill-ins" for other classes anyway you look at it. Given that fact of EQ life in the way the devs are continuing to push druids, it only makes sense to fight for less individuality and more "closer to x class" in skills and spells. It's the only fight the devs can understand.
Am I the only one find it ironic that I was so against wasting time arguing for those abilities, only to find in GOD that those abilities would be extremely valuable?Would it have mattered? :p
03-04-2004, 12:57 PM
personally i HATE charming.
I have to get to many AA to even worry about DC.
03-04-2004, 01:11 PM
Yes, druids can solo pretty well, but the question remains... where? ...And these areas are as common as charmable plants.
Solo spots are hardly that rare, solo spots with high exp are maybe that rare. There are always places with decent exp, some with decent exp and decent loot, and so on. Yes, you won't always get the "best" exp spot, but we certainly can solo in a ton of places.
PoP, LDoN, GoD... recent expansions have pushed druids to groups and raids... And while it's nice to be wanted, it would still be nice to be MOST wanted in some area :) We are "substitutes"... "fill-ins" for other classes anyway you look at it.
Not just druids, all classes have been pushed in that direction with the expansions and the uping of group exp and nerfing of solo exp.
As for only being "fill-ins" for other classes, I have to strongly disagree. Sure there are times when a group really wants a cleric, but takes me instead, but a lot of times they would rather have me over a cleric. In LDoN especially, if your group has decent DPS and/or a slower, many groups prefer a druid to a cleric because you still have good healing power, but when you don't need to heal you can nuke, dot, root CC as well as being able to snare, evac, regen, etc. I was in a group not to long ago where I cast TR twice the whole adventure and chloroblast maybe five times, wouldn't you rather have a druid MH in a group like that? Druids are also excellent aggro kiters for groups that do that and the best partner IMO for a charming enchanter. We can heal fairly well, snare the mobs, soe the enchanter and evac if things go bad.
Anyway, to the orignal poster, I still agree that animal mez and whatnot is not worth trying to fight for, even though I do think it is something that makes sense for us to have. I feel pretty good about my druid right now balance-wise, we aren't perfect, but we are doing pretty good I think. Every expansion throws people off at first, go to the paladin boards if you want to see how worried they are about their tanking role in GoD. And yes, every new expansion people want to take clerics along because they are worried about needing a rez and want the best heals until they feel out the mobs. What I have seen is people wanting a cleric and a druid/shaman, which actually works about pretty well for us.
03-04-2004, 01:37 PM
Personally, I'd rather just see the level caps on the charms all match, raise everyone to match the enchanters level cap and I'd be happy.
03-10-2004, 09:27 AM
I think it's not unreasonable to ask for an animal only mez or slow similar to what necros obtain.
03-10-2004, 12:02 PM
Master of animals?
hmm sounds like a BEAST LORD to me.
the beast lord with animals is probably more like the necro with undead.
maybe the beast lord was their answer to what druids were looking for.
go start a beast lord. haha
but i do agree..
we should have more control over nature.
plants and animal charms, mezzes, slows....
and i still think druids should have some sort of rezzing too ( to go back to that arguement )
03-10-2004, 01:21 PM
please stop the stupidity logi.
i agree with many others, id simply like something niche to the druid class.
03-17-2004, 10:35 AM
I think they do the following to fix the class on top of what has already been done for GoD.
-Raise the secondary forte skill to 250, OR lower the required aa for the skill to 9. Seeing as you stuck it at 100, suggests that you were planning on milking this option for future expansions. The current 15aa is ridiculous for the increase in skill.
-REMOVE the new run4-6 players can get with aa's OR make the SOW spell stack. (It is our trademark spell more then any other spell, and SOE just made it useless.) Also reduce the run speed of the mobs in GoD from the soe speed they are currently clocked at. I have never seen a turtle move so fast, quite impossible given their shell. If you are going to take away our trademark spell, the LEAST that can be done, is ratifying the other problems we have.
-Instead of giving us a lower aggro spell that we don't have time to cast along with all our nukes, heals, and debuffs. GIVE US A MELEE BARRIER SPELL. Seriously when was the last time you heard of a clierc heal someone and then have to cast an aggro reducing spell because the MoB was now after them.. They wouldn't have the time to target the mob and cast the spell regardless.
-MAKE OUR GD 10sec heal spells critical like the clerics line. At the moment it's totally ridiculous to use the Tunare heal or the Karana heal when it takes 10sec to cast, saves little mana and doesn't even provide the healing necessary to do the job.
-Provide a new better healing heal over time spell, or increase the amount of hp healed when using Natures Recovery.
Guess that was my rant.
03-17-2004, 11:46 AM
i agree with many others, id simply like something niche to the druid class.
We have our niche; save the raid when clerics fawk up or don't log in. Otherwise, nuke. Oh and buff. And be CoH anchors.
Personally, I have fun with it. =)
Druids already have a niche with our soloing power, and that is a problem in a way. We can solo extremely well in outdoor zones in a variety of styles. However that niche is almost entirely redundant in the high end game where there is almost nothing worthwhile to solo. Quick xp is fine, but once you're in the end game you don't need fast xp and you can still get faster xp in a group. Our capability to solo is still recognised though and needs considering in class balance, even though it's of limited use in the high end game.
03-18-2004, 08:29 AM
Also reduce the run speed of the mobs in GoD from the soe speed they are currently clocked at. I have never seen a turtle move so fast, quite impossible given their shell.
Not particularly relevant but those turtles dont actually run all that fast, they just warp on top of people a lot.
03-18-2004, 12:24 PM
Maybe we're not taking about the same turtles. The ones in Nadaria's Landing, a shaman buffed with soe could not out run the turtle train behind him. He didn't get caught by the turtles, but he wasn't getting away either. They seemed to be matched in speed. I fallowed the chase for a good 3min running beside it.
The demand is more of a /rude at soe for taking away sow as a druid/ranger spell. You know they've taken it away because now everyone's got a pair of fabled journeyman boots.
03-18-2004, 03:31 PM
I like charming them and buffing them and then gating and watching people get owned :/
03-18-2004, 03:50 PM
I am pretty happy with the state of the druid. THere are certainly tweaks I wish they would make, but I seem to have little problem getting groups when I want them, although I will admit I get about 10 times as many random tells for groups on my bst, my enchanter and my necro.
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