There is a fair bit of history to the debate of Druid 22 minute SoTW reuse timer, vs. the 15 minute timer of Clerics and Beastlords.

You can view the discussions here:
Case for reducing SoTW reuse timer (http://www.thedruidsgrove.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6333)
Who would give up the DS/AC of SotW for faster reuse? (http://www.thedruidsgrove.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6340)

Aaeamdar reported to us from the most recent Fanfair (http://www.thedruidsgrove.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7191&page=1&pp=15) with some more insight:On some druids issues. Spent most on my (sober) time attending Developer meetings and then talking to them afterwards.3. SotW. It was discussed after the last FF. They aren't changing it. At least not now. For reasons not at all understood by me, they really think the DS is a very big deal. Apparently DS >> more healing or Mana regen. /shrug.

It looks as though SOE devs are really hung up on the power of the DS.

Given this information, I believe a strictly mathematical calculation is in order. Reducing the timer from 22 minutes to 15 minutes, and applying the same reduction to the Damage Shield component would yield a damage shield reduction of:

22-15=7 [22 minutes - 15 minutes = 7 minutes]
(7/22)*55=17.5 [7 minutes / 22 minutes multiplied by 55 DS = 17.5 DS]

17.5 DS

So if you were to reduce the timer to 15 minutes, and also reduce the DS by 18 (17.5 rounded) then you would mathematically have the same outcome of aggragate DS data over a large sample.

Would you trade 18 DS (making it 37 DS instead of 55) on SoTW for a 15 minute reuse?

Yes
No
Yes, and I would also take ZERO damage shield for the reduced timer (it doesn't mean that much to me)

Please vote in this poll (http://www.thedruidsgrove.org/forums/showthread.php?p=111485#post111485)

Discuss...

Just take out the damage shield. No one I know EVER casts it for the DS. If you play your aggro right, this only affects one character anyway.

The developers are completely ignorant of how EQ is played if they are scared that the DS component gives SotW ANY "unbalancing" power at all.

Sounds like the devs are stuck in their own world anyway. I hear that subscriber numbers are reflecting this as well. Perhaps we should write marketing instead of developers if we want a logical change :)

Absolutely! I don't use Woody for the DS. The druids in my guild all use it for the group heal aspect. So, reducing the amount of DS in exchange for a lower recast time equal to beastlords would be a most welcome change. :)

Just to clarify the math:

A 15 minute reuse = 4 uses per hour
A 22 minute reuse = 2.727272~ uses per hour
With extended AA's the SoTW buff lasts 42 seconds.

Lets say you are being beat on a constant 10 times per second (for the sake of round numbers).

So, for 42 seconds out of every use you are being hit 10 times per second. Multiply that by the damage shield (55 now, 37 at reduced). Then multiply that by the number of times per hour that you can activate it.

42*10=420
420*55=23100
23100*2.727272~=63000 damage per hour

If the timer were 15 minutes, and the DS were reduced to 37:

42*10=420
420*37=15540
15540*4=62160 damage per hour

In the previous discussions some Druids (very few though) did not want the DS removed. By reducing it proportionately with the reduction in the timer the aggragate damage would remain the same on maximum use.

There's the logic, so why not change it SOE? Please?

Of course those are fake numbers, noone gets hit 10 times per second, and if they are (at least in Gates, and most of PoP) they will be dead before 1 second is up. The real numbers aren't even remotely close to that amount of damage... was just trying to prove in the math. :D You get the idea.

Has anyone made a post about this on the SOE boards yet? The issue may have a better chance to get a dev's attention there, I know some shaman, knight, and monk issues have.

Umm the reuse timer should be 15mins and the spell stays the same , clerics heals hps , beastlords heals hps and regens mana , so beastlords should be 22 mins cuz it gives mana and hps , likes our is because it gives hps and ds? lmao

should just be dropped to 15mins like the others , ide trade the ds for the mana beastlords has. and that mana regen >>>> ds. so wtf

Elder Levidian OmniPresent[Prexus] <Unity>

The DS doesnt last the entire 15/22 minutes. It last 30/42 seconds.
I cast it for the DS from time to time, it's a nice surge of very low agro DPS, on some of the Ikkinz mobs that have 2.5 HPS you're talking 130+ DPS. It's silly that the developers would consider this to be the unbalancing feature of the ability though. I say that because mobs that using the DS for DPS is actually useful dont come any faster then every 22 minutes, so you can use SoTW for DPS on every boss mob anyway.
My answer is no, I wont trade any of SoTW abilities for a reduced timer. However the developers never listen anyway so what's the point?

*edit* ohh yea and you might want to fix your typos in math wyte

Which typos Ozmodiar? Could you please point them out? If you're referring to the AA lasting 30/42 seconds, I used the 42 seconds (SCRM enabled) in my theoretical example. I did not use 15/22 minutes for the duration of the AA, but those are used in the calculation of use per hour.

...by slowly making it obsolete. I can't remember one time where SotW was very helpful in GoD. We're debating whether the 700+ HPS of Slyvan Infusion can make us good secondary healers; by comparison, the 42 HPS of SotW is trivial, even if we could cast it every 3 minutes.

Ironically, the <b>most</b> important aspect of SotW in GoD, for me, has been the damage shield. Combined with melee invulnerability and low HP NPCs, it can do pretty good damage.

A 15 minute reuse = 4 uses per minute
A 22 minute reuse = 2.727272~ uses per minute


Sorry the wording not the actual numbers. /cough hour

I know you said 10 was just to point out the math but I think it was a horriable number to use because in the one in a million chance, a dev might scan through your post and see 63000 damage an hour and go "OMG see it is powerful!"
1 is a nice even number and alot closer to realistic and seeing 6300 damage an hour really drives the point home. One good wizard nuke =).

/gasp, thanks!

I had this wonderful long negative post to go here. But then I thought about it and decided that this probably isnt the place for it since this is actually a decent thread with some real numbers behind it.

Personally I'd rather not give up the DS myself. The timer should be lowered with the DS intact, or at worst lowered a tiny bit. The amount of DPS is so minimal in 99% of the situations out there that most druids will never see it.

Frankly, I'm just waiting for the mobs to start casting Mark of Karn on tanks.

:grin:

The only time I ever use the DS is when I'm PLing. Never in a raid situation or even a group situation have I EVER given a second thought to the DS because it's used for healing only.

Would I give up the DS so the timer can be lowered to 15 min? Hell yes!

Do I think we SHOULD have to give up the DS to have the timer lowered? Hell no. It doesn't make any difference at all, and it is diffinantly a very druidish thing that the other 2 classes can't say that they have. Only reason I want to keep the DS in is not because it's useful, but because it's simply 'us.'

Just because you dont use SoTW doesnt mean it isnt useful. Dropping it on a tank during a boss fight can only do good. It's alot easier to sell myself to a trial group that is convinced they need 2 clerics to kill a boss mob if I can show them 130 agrofree, unresistable, instant cast, dps, while being able to heal.
The DS was pretty useless in PoP and the 22 minute timer was just another /rude to druids. I think SoE made unslowable high HPS mobs in GoD for a reason. The DS is useful it's more then an added bonus to the healing, or atleast so far.

I want the DS on sotw too. It can add a bit of dps to groups and raids when need. Pretty useful and not just another one of those ae heals. Its an ability that very few class have that allow us to damaging the mobs while healing the group at the same time.