View Full Forums : This time civilized: Quad Kiting Justifies Un-Balance


rezoraith
09-12-2002, 08:02 PM
I believe that our ability to quad kite up to 60 is about half the time it takes to group if you KEI your way up. With this in mind, should this be taken into consideration when asking for upgrades?

Last post went haywire, I hope this one can be discussion not flamation.

Scirocco
09-12-2002, 08:05 PM
Nope. Already been dismissed as a basis for balancing by Verant. And it makes no sense at all, since other classes can get to 60 as quickly as a druid, and since over half of a player's total playing time can be spent at 60.

Sending this one over to Balance as well.

Windfyreskii
09-12-2002, 08:06 PM
Our ability? Wizards can kite 10-15 mobs at once.

The idea of kiting was not something varent had in mind. It was just something that happend. We were the only class that can snare, sow, root and dot a mob without help. The real idea of the kite is simply to snare, dot and outrun the mob. The idea of "Quad" is because a druid can only nuke 4 mobs at once with there AE's.

Talyena Trueheart
09-12-2002, 08:06 PM
With this in mind, should this be taken into consideration when asking for upgrades?

No

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fran9876
09-12-2002, 08:09 PM
half the time it takes to group if you KEI your way up.

Under no circumstances, EVER, should it be required to KEI. Any form of mind candy is a bonus. Not an expectation. Our class balancing should never involve the letters KEI.

vetoafauna
09-12-2002, 08:11 PM
druids' ability to quad kite has nothing to do with how they are balanced on raids, there isnt anything to discuss, soloing/grouping/raiding are all completely different aspects of the game. druids are not the only quad kiting class, nor are we the only solo class.

Fayne Dethe
09-12-2002, 08:31 PM
I find it funny to mention this when it is absolutely trivial to get any class from 1 to 50 nowdays in EQ. We are talking about balance today, not how it was so much easier to level druids vs other classes 1-50 Pre-Kunark, thats what 2-3 years ago?

Menlaiene
09-12-2002, 08:33 PM
Um, so I guess wizards should get mega nerfs right?

rezoraith
09-12-2002, 08:37 PM
1.) druid with KEI has fastest route/easiest route to 60
2.) what do we know what verant thinks 1 moment they are shunning us the next we get partial ch
3.) wizards can kill more but with higher chance of getting arss kicked via, un-uber spells like long snare and sow
4.) druid KEI levels VERY VERY VERY fast, I'd say almost as fast as powerleveling.

vetoafauna
09-12-2002, 08:39 PM
oh, so since druids can get power leveled by a 60 chanter means those of us that have been 60 for 2 years and could give a damn about the pre 60 game have to suffer?

why not just say a druid is the easiest class to get to 60 cause they can get a necro to follow them around and twitch them?

Windfyreskii
09-12-2002, 08:43 PM
This doesnt hold alot of wt considering your level 49. KEI to you would probably mean something, but to me my mana moves 1% more per tick with KEI.

Also, level 60 is when the game BEGINS. So be happy you get there as fast as you can (if you can). Because there is a long long long road ahead.

FyyrLuStorm
09-12-2002, 09:15 PM
Bah!

Gimme some animals.

I will knock your quadding socks and boots off.

Lame thread.


Go to the friggen Bard boards and tell them not to charm kite 12 or 15 mobs at a time.


Nerf Bards!

Give Bards Complete Heal Song!

Give Bards Manaburn!

Give Bards KEI Song!

Nerf Bards!



/sarcasm off


Stop it, we all know that quadding slow. Quadding does not justify anything. Most beautiful quad I have ever seen was by an Enchanter, go un-balance them why don't you.

sudawilde
09-12-2002, 09:18 PM
Experience from Quad kiting is not all that it is cracked up to be anyhow. Down time while medding with or without kei limits the exp flow in the first place, and then you have to consider the possible camps for Quad kiting. Most of them do not supply a constant influx of mobs to quad kite. Sure there are zones you can go to where there are tons of wandering mobs, but then you have to deal with adds who when snared move at a different rate then your target mobs, it is all very sticky. Quad kiting is touchy at least. If it should be considered in balancing? No.

My reasons stated above pretain mostly to mid 50's camps. so i am correct in assuming you are a lvl 49 druid? If you are please dont add fodder to the flames, till you know what it is like in the mid to high 50's. There is nothing like quading a group of mobs and NOT seeing your exp bar move :( or that nifty % with advanced skins telling you that those 4 mobs didnt even give you 1% exp twords your next lvl.

And one other thing..... i am going to repeat it just for kicks :)

"All priests should offer a similar level of value in solo, group, and raid situations, and they won't be considered balanced until this is true." Rich Waters

sudawilde
09-12-2002, 09:51 PM
Rezorith, Before reading your thread in rants i thought you were just a misinformed pre 50 druid, i remember being the same way myself, After reading that thread i am sure you are nothing more than a Troll, digging for fodder.



pub13.ezboard.com/fthedru...=811.topic (http://pub13.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgroverants.showMessage?topicID=811.topic )

/ignore on

Aawulf
09-12-2002, 11:34 PM
Rezoraith, what is this "we" stuff? Most of us play and are concerned about the druid class, not your cleric.

We clerics have had it awfully nice for along time. Is it fair that we get to join all the good loot groups even if the group inviting us knows nothing about us? We really shouldn't draw too much attention to ourselves right now. Golly, the poor druids never get in the KS group and we get all the raid exp. We really are lucky to have held our monopoly for as long as we have. Viva La CH!

We...yeah right!

L1ndara
09-13-2002, 02:05 AM
1.) druid with KEI has fastest route/easiest route to 60

Not even by the furthest stretch of the imagination is this true.

2.) what do we know what verant thinks 1 moment they are shunning us the next we get partial ch

Huh?

3.) wizards can kill more but with higher chance of getting arss kicked via, un-uber spells like long snare and sow

No SoW? So you pay 100pp for KEI but you're too cheap to buy SoW potions? LMAO. You just have no clue. And Bonds of Force is ample time to quad with, or if not *gasp* recast it, it's not like wizard's quads aren't far cheaper than druid's.

4.) druid KEI levels VERY VERY VERY fast, I'd say almost as fast as powerleveling.

With twinking and high level buffs all classes break 50 in a few days played.

So being able to quadkite so it's 2 days and 20 hours played instead of 3 days to get to 60 means druids should be unbalanced? You're... um... not making much sense.

le freez
09-13-2002, 02:53 AM
quad kiting justfies unbalance

yayaya since a chanter is required in AE group, and since we all know AE group give a lot of xp, we need to unbalance them quickly too ...

/sarcasm off

and for 1-50 any melee twink can lvl uber fast (aego, uber weapon / fungi etc)

Gimli fan
09-13-2002, 04:06 AM
With a name like Rezoraith I smell a Cleric!
Get em boys!

heheh ;) just kidding.

I would not mind giving up some powers.
Take summon foood and summon water and give
me two cold debuffs.


As for losing quad kiting lets see how balance works out before we give that up. Might still be one of the few ways to get EXP. Currently we are far worse off than we were 22 days ago in relation of healing effectiveness using Clerics as a baseline.

Gimli fan
09-13-2002, 04:14 AM
Oh, and it seems the game does not begin at 60 anymore. It looks now as if at least in PoP level 65 will be the mark.

Scirocco
09-13-2002, 06:03 AM
True, after looking at the rant thread, he probably is trolling. But it's such a weak troll that now has been squished to road kill it's not worth the trouble locking the thread...:)

brum15
09-13-2002, 06:56 AM
From a clerics point of view, I have said it before and will say it again. Druids should not be punished post 50 for stuff that happens pre 50. Two different games. The better fix would be to make other classes easier to level up to 50 and then make druids easier to level 50 to 60. The current trend is druids shoot 1 to 50 then crawl 50 to 60 --clerics crawl 1-50 and then shoot 50 to 60. Overall time is about same but makes for unfun playing. Druids need help leveling 50 to 60--some way to get groups. Clerics need help 1 to 50-faster exp through soloing or dps in groups.

Kenuon
09-13-2002, 08:04 AM
why feed the troll?

Talyena Trueheart
09-13-2002, 08:08 AM
Because he is such a puny, little, pathetic troll. Triggers than nurturing instinct.

MoonDancer
09-13-2002, 08:09 AM
In response to Fayne's post about it being trivial to level from 1 to 50.

I totally agree i dumped a fungi and a jade mace/sos combo on a level one monk with some other minor stuff. at the time your looking at around 40k for what i paid for it all told to twink out my monk.

And i soloed from 1 to 50 in 72 hours just to see how fast it could be done. she is now 53 with 4 and a half days played heh. i have heard of monks being PLed to 60 in 8-9 days just nuts.

-MoonDancer

vetoafauna
09-13-2002, 08:27 AM
"i have heard of monks being PLed to 60 in 8-9 days just nuts"

saves them a few months so they can camp raster ;)

Tettsuo1
09-13-2002, 10:00 AM
Ease of lvling from 1-60 is a part of the balancing equation. Twinking isn't.

It just get under my skin when I read posts saying how easy it is for a Monk to level from 1-60. Guess what.. it ain't. Monks do not have it easy. Monks aren't born with fungi tunics and tranquil staves. Now a twink Monk has it easy, simply because gear like the Fungi tunic is a huge boon to a class that avoid so much damage, but that's not the norm.

Druids on the other hand have a much easier time lvling. The snare line and SoW make that possible. In most cases, if you can snare it, you can kill it. This makes the class quite safe. From 1-60 Druids are one of the safest classes to play. That really should (and probably is) a factor in the balancing equation.

While I feel that the ease of the class is a faction, I think the idea that Quad kiting can justify the unbalancing of the class is rediculous. Quad kiting isn't and overpowering skill.

Talyena Trueheart
09-13-2002, 10:16 AM
Ease of lvling from 1-60 is a part of the balancing equation.

Nope.

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AelfricGreenmantle
09-13-2002, 10:18 AM
/em Listens to Rezoraith

Sounds like a cleric troll

/em sniffs Rezoraith

Smells like a cleric troll

/em bites Rezoraith

/em spits chunk of cleric troll out

Tastes like 3 month old garbage

Get lost troll.

Aelfric Greenmantle
Hierophant of Tunare
Destiny Awaits
E'ci Server

Tilien Venator
09-13-2002, 10:37 AM
Hihi,

You forgot where your village was and ended up here? :p

Menlaiene
09-13-2002, 10:43 AM
I don't see buying a kei to powerlevel your caster class as any different from buying a fungi tunic and uber weapons to powerlevel your melee class.

Twinking can't be considered in class balance, and getting a kei for a low level druid to solo is twinking, pure and simple.

brum15
09-13-2002, 10:46 AM
leveling 1-50 may be easy for druids. 50 to 60 is not. 1-50 is easy quading and kiting. To get from 50 to 60 requires groups to do it easiest. That is why clerics usually catch up in these levels. Once again to make the game unfun 50+ is not the answer. Verant has pretty much already indicated that the upper levels is where the meat is. They just need to make 1-50 easier for everyone and then 50-60 easier for druids, necros and mages.

Divinefactor Lifebringer
09-13-2002, 03:02 PM
1-50 doesnt need to be easier for everyone. Theres a good reason why it takes at least some time to do it untwinked. If every person that started playing the game was in the end game within the end of a week worth of playtime, the end game would be so cluttered with people that have no idea what to do. How long did it take you to learn tactics? Timing Heals? Agro management? And you wanna make the path to 60 easier?

Necros have no problem getting to 60, you just gotta know where to go.

Druids: I dont really know where to XP easily, if there even is an easy place, but you can root rot OS pretty easily and XP wasnt that bad preluclin.

Mages: Never played ya, dont know sorry


From 1-50 is a learning process of just general game skills mentioned before, after that you pick up your raiding skills. The time taken to get there is the time you use to refine/perfect these techniques.

and as a cleric:

NO

QUAD KITING DOES NOT JUSTIFY IMBALANCE

brum15
09-13-2002, 04:28 PM
easier doesnt always mean making the mobs easier. Out of all the time I spent leveling my cleric, I would guess one third of it was just trying to get somewhere to group. I am still so sick of boats today I could puke. And the beat downs running across FM to overthere, they were ugly. all burnyai will forever by KOS to me. Must say KC was nice in the 40s cause I could just camp by north wall.

Oakendale FW
09-14-2002, 03:49 PM
Lets face it - this debate is as old as the game itself. First off yes quad kiting is or was pretty viable exp before the patch. Second off - its boring as hell and when you factor in med time, mob respawn time, and zones which this is viable it becomes even less attractive. Now after the patch im sure you guys noticed a difference in exp from previous in your quading areas that perhaps used to yield decent exp. So now depending on lvl you have to goto the obviously higher lvl areas to find quads which are now camped beyond all hell. Once again verants "vision" has somewhat taken away a bit more for one of our few viable exp options we as a class possessed. Guess its back to lfg for hours on end once again.......

Oakendale ForestWalker
(becoming bitter)
60 Druid

Cronuus
09-15-2002, 05:08 AM
Rezoraith of Prexus
Level 49<===


...
:lol:

Cassea
09-15-2002, 05:46 AM
Sorry it was either lock this or move to rants.

Aidon Rufflefuzz
09-15-2002, 06:34 AM
Rezoraith,

You tried this trolling bull**** once...

Next time I'll lock and trash it without a second though.

If you want to know why quadding isn't a basis for balance..and why it ain't all that..use the google search feature Sobe just added and look at some of the thousands of discussions on it we've had.

They just nerfed the one quad spot where I could actually match the xping rate of a soloing monk.

Renbeny
09-15-2002, 07:39 AM
I can't say I've ever charm kited 12 or 15 mobs at a time. But that's not "charm kiting". That's "swarm kiting".

And Verant already hates our solo. I mean, they've pretty much said so in the past. Our 39 Charm song, our main solo weapon, just had its mana cost raised with the "benefit" of having it last longer, which is actually, from the bard's point of view, a worse thing when it comes to soloing.

sudawilde
09-16-2002, 03:18 AM
Horay Aidon :)

Korwyn
09-16-2002, 05:20 PM
Just one question to Rezoraith....if its SOOO easy to get to 60 for a Druid why are you still 49?


Korwyn
The Nameless

Aidon Rufflefuzz
09-16-2002, 10:15 PM
Druids on the other hand have a much easier time lvling

Not really. I've levelled an untwinked monk up to 40...did it about as fast as I levelled my druid up to 40.

Monks are gods.

Aldarion Shard
09-17-2002, 08:40 AM
naw gods are balanced, they need worshippers and stuff.

monks are beyond gods.

brum15
09-17-2002, 05:41 PM
point is nothing justifies makeing a game unfun. If there is a problem with quad-kiting resulting in too fast of leveling then deal with that as a separate issue. Nothing done pre50 justifies making the game unfun at 50+. People play the game to have fun. When it isnt fun, it is broke. nuff said

Treyna Pynecone
09-19-2002, 02:58 PM
Good grief..... this isn't about twinking or PLing or playing EQ for 72 straight hours.....

Geeeez, for those of you who have 30k to twink an alt.... or for those of you who can dual box or have a friend that will PL you.. and for those of you that CAN play for 72 hours straight to get to 50... damn... GET A LIFE

I for one do not play that many hours straight, have a fat bankroll to twink out alts at a whim nor do I have a second, third or fourth account in which to PL.. I have to do it the old fashioned way, the way it was MEANT to be.....

I solo because I can't get a group.. shammies buff better, clerics heal better and they can rez, wizzies/chanters can AE or whatever better.... so I solo.... I can root/dot or quad IF I can wrestle a quad area away from the friendly neighborhood necro or bard who is kiting 17 mobs.... talk about unbalanced...

I get accused of being the natural solo class, the natural quad class.... lol quad is right..... most I can do safely is 4, necros and bards what.. 18, 20 maybe 25.. AE groups, what 30 mobs?

LOL I quad kite, when I can, because that is really the only option I have.... so lets not forget, thsi is about the class and the realities of it, NOT the dual boxer PLing the level 5 twink with level 50 gear or whatever....