Some fruitcake has been pushing for component heals on EQCleric, and now here, for a long while now.

" I don't think that the peridot-per-cast is a bad idea because the majority of druids at that level are NOT poor. Indeed, I think it would be - for that reason - a good idea to lighten their pockets so they experience the true joy of being a humble and destitute priest, since they are really focused on their priestly aspects these days. Har, har, har. Pardon me if that sounds bitter. "

This, taken from EQCleric, exemplifies what I think of people suggesting this idea. Vindictive SOB Trolls not concerned with balance, but with maintaining the status quo and acting out some twisted desire for revenge (likely at having a component associated with one line of their spells all these years). They ignore the significant positive changes to their own class, they shrug off (or laugh at) the fact that applying a 15pp cost to heal is 10x more detrimental than associating one with a buff, and they ignore statements form Rich like:

“ All priests should offer a similar level of value in solo, group, and raid situations, and they won't be considered balanced until this is true.“

The only reason to suggest healing with a casting cost during this time of balancing is that you don’t want druid-healing desirability to increase AT ALL. This is not balance. It is spite.

A good majority of the clerics, and other classes for that matter, who post here are trolling. Notice, Druid bashing is a sport:
eqcleric.gameglow.com/for...adid=11855 (http://eqcleric.gameglow.com/forums/showthread.php?s=0a65f0f5414beccf40632dc2e7fbd4e7&threadid=11855)

The trolls will not go away. Trolls have been here since The State of the Druid and never left. So I suggest, in the name of class balance and the failed PRIEST convention, [edit] perform pagan dance rituals until dawn. QUACK

Edit: over the top.

Considering there is no gasoline in game, I am not sure if you are talking characters or players here. Hope this was a weak attempt at a joke.

I am pretty sure he is talking about the players here dont you think it would bee kind of hard fur the characters to post

and were did you get gasline from?

Notice, Druid bashing is a sport


While druid bashing does sound like a fun sport..... I think Im going to stick to gnome punting as my choice of sport! :)





Venerable Vamenea "ChealhealBattleBish (tm)" Deryther
60th Australian High Priestess of Innoruuk
Unguilded & No Longer Retired Tholuxe Paells Server

Vamenea - this is a weird question, but why do you put so many blank lines between your paragraphs?

<wants some of whatever stormie's smoking>

LOL thats funny, concidering when ever i have gotten a group the clerics have demanded all sellable gems they make a packet and the group gets to split the little amount of cash, needless to say i dont group with whiney gem hording clerics anymore. 1 or 2 extra gems from a group to cover dots is fine, but the whole lot? maybe just the misfortune of greedy cleric in group i have encountered 5 differant times.

LOL thats funny, concidering when ever i have gotten a group the clerics have demanded all sellable gems they make a packet and the group gets to split the little amount of cash, needless to say i dont group with whiney gem hording clerics anymore. 1 or 2 extra gems from a group to cover dots is fine, but the whole lot? maybe just the misfortune of greedy cleric in group i have encountered 5 differant times.



Any cleric that asks for all gems drops the first thing to do there is /disband clueless cleric_01 :)

I was in a guild group in old seb one night, what started out as a 60mage/myself duo over time turned into a full group of (well equipped) guildies in my group just wasting time before the nights raid we setup at guard and was pulling from discos/zo/zi/kitchen/jail pretty much owning the zone and just in the space of a few hours before we all left for guild raid the amout of money the gems made come out to be near 4/5 of course you have to take in the fact the group was made up of people just wasiting time before a raid (ie.ntov eqviliant gear) you would have to half the rate of gems drops for a normal exp group.

But still couple hours fun working seb with well equipped friends 4/5k half that for a normal group in that time frame and thats a fair few amount of plat to be paying for symbols if the cleric asks for all the gems..... :)


Venerable Vamenea "ChealhealBattleBish (tm)" Deryther
60th Australian High Priestess of Innoruuk
Unguilded & No Longer Retired Tholuxe Paells Server

and that 4-5k wasnt counting one blue diamond/one diamond that wasnt vendored that went to our enchanter to skill up on jewelcrafting.



Venerable Vamenea "ChealhealBattleBish (tm)" Deryther
60th Australian High Priestess of Innoruuk
Unguilded & No Longer Retired Tholuxe Paells Server

Just grouped in KC hand room today. Had a warrior and monk switching aggro and played for about 6 hours. Used around 15 peridots. We King looted and I got 95 plat at the end--same as everyone else. I pay 11 plat a peridot and was given 2 dots by enchanter and one by monk. So I used 12 of my own dots at 11 plat each for 132 plat and got 95 plat back. I asked for a couple of the gems to offset cost and was told that clerics already get enough cause they can charge for rezzes. the monk on his own gave me another 30 plat- chanter gave me 10. So yeah in 6 hours I made 3---count em- 3 plat. I would have left group a lot sooner had I known so no I am not stupid and neither will I ever group with the other three again (1 ranger, 1 rogue and 1 druid).

I dont take those people as typical for their class and dont assume that all clerics are greedy either. Hell I would love to get rid of component cost on buff and then just evenly split all loot. Having to pay 11 plat for a single buff gets horribly expensive after a few hours.

Also I am one of them pushing to get you the reagent based CH. However if you read most of our post this is in addition to your costless incomplete heal. you would still get your 75% heal without a component, but that is more of a group heal. So the component CH is an additional spell on top of that to make you more useful in raids when the guild can pay for the cost.

From most of our clerics point of view we would be scared (imo rightly so) if you got CH the exact same as clerics for everday grouping however most of us fully support some heal at 75% 3K or whatever it works out to be. However being in a guild, that spell is not as much use in a raid where we need every bit of healing we can get.

Keep the 75% heal but when we are saying you need the component heal for raids and the guild could cover it and you say we dont want the component heal. <boggle> I know I at least was looking at this being added as a bonus. If you dont want to use it fine, just cast your 75% heal.

Just grouped in KC hand room today

Karnors... thats your problem just been in that zone is enought to give me a rash.

First tried this zone out when I was 41 not to tough the lcy/rcy/captain camp anything else was a tad tougher but doable and ive been back there here and there (just recently once to get VP key piece .. talk about fun I got to pull lol saw a named up and brought him and 8 of his friends back to our camp spot of 4 people with no crowd control enc/bard).

But on average in karnors your lucky to even break even more often then not though I would walk away with negative plat which is why I ditched that zone at 45 and pretty much lived there till mid 50's :)

Old seb in a fair group=a cash cow for everyone in your group :)


Venerable Vamenea "ChealhealBattleBish (tm)" Deryther
60th Australian High Priestess of Innoruuk
Unguilded & No Longer Retired Tholuxe Paells Server

and pretty much lived there till mid 50's



I meant I pretty much live in old seb there till mid 50's :)

I dont understand why some people who play clerics want to take out their eqplat shortage frustrations on another class who typically isnt exactly rolling in eqplat either. Please dont make wide generalizations about the state of any classes bank balance, and just because you think someone might have more eqplat than you, to change that.

It doesnt say balance to me. It says vengance.

If SOE wants to give druids the symbol/aego line and make us pay for peri's, fine, that's fair. Dont just make up stupid things like components for heals to try to keep druids pockets empty. Look at it from a purely selfish point of view. If a druid and a cleric are in the same group, a druid will have every right to half the cleric's gems for the CH fund!

I get tired of anyone of high enough level complaining about cashflow. Go to rathe mountains and kill 5 hill giants. There ya go, set for a week. That's not hard.

Tia

PS I go out of my way to tell my cleric not to bother symbolling me in an xp group.

Bless your heart Scirocco.

That so needed to be said.

Component based heals...brought to you by those who resent you leveling solo when you were in your 40's.

ROFL clerics are about the richest class in cash terms. Every exp group I have been in since level 50 the cleric gets basically all cash loots (if there is a cleric present). Why? Because in the course of the few hours they burned oh 10 peris for a cost of 140 plat or so? And what they get in return? About 3k worht of cash loots.

It is fine when in a guild group of course...you know that is peri money for your future raid. But when you are in a pickup you are funding someone else's raid.

It doesn't bother me because I can get cash loots alone when really poor. But the idea that druids are swimming in money and need 10x the peri expense of clerics to "balance us" is insulting.

I have to agree with Oldoak here, component heals are crap. Let's look at this from my personal standpoint as I'm not a "typical Druid" in Cleric's point of view. I leveled 5-49 in a group...I NEVER was racking up money, nor do I now..why? Because I don't feel like farming other people's exp (HG's) for cash and nothing blue to me I solo gives anything worth cash with the exception of dropped plat. Anything I've gotten worth cash recently has been an upgrade to my gear (Got lucky with boots of flowing slime and was the only Druid at Trak to get an ES BP).

Broad generalizations lead to some people being misplaced on your "view". I am a group Druid, I love to group and socialize..I HATE being generalized and stereotyped BECAUSE of a FEW bad apple Druids who are probably someone's alt. And the porting business isn't exactly good either with a bunch of port alts sitting in Nexus and what not screaming "Porting to soandso for donations".

Ikta Sentrosi
60 Grandrophant of Tunathule
"This person will self destruct in 5 seconds."

I get tired of anyone of high enough level complaining about cashflow. Go to rathe mountains and kill 5 hill giants. There ya go, set for a week. That's not hard

Damn those giants must have fat pockets if killing 5 is going to make me set for a week consdering the fact that I easily burn 2-3k each week of my own personal plat on peri's and this is just for exp groups/soloing ect I dont raid anymore since deciding I was fed up been a cheal chain bish and decided to go unguilded :)

I haven't actually stood back and thought about how I feel about component heals yet. But I do understand the general idea.

You might have a few clerics that remember the druid that charged them a flat, outrageous rate for a mid-level teleport, and jumping on this idea bandwagon is a sweet revenge. But, in the end, this goes back to the point I've been trying to make on the threads I've been contributing to lately.

If you look at things from a general standpoint, efficiency = 100%. Take the way the game is supposed to work. Warriors have 100% tank efficiency, Wizards have 100% damage efficiency, and Clerics have 100% healing efficiency. I know this isn't the case anymore, with our esteemed head dev. and his monk (wink, wink, J!) or the recent "battlecleric" upgrades, but this is a perfect world.

Now, the druid is obviously split into several different areas efficiency-wise. No three druids can agree on whether they want increased DoT, nuke, or healing efficiency, but the argument can readily be made that since druid's have (just to use rounded numbers) 33% healing efficiency, 33% nuke efficiency, and 33% DoT efficiency when compared with the standards (Cleric, Wizard, and Necro, respectively), it's not very fair to give them more in any one area, as that gives them too much, i.e. 150% efficiency.

I really don't, in the end, see the problem with component-based heals and buffs, just so long as they are truly just cleric heals and buffs. Think about it. You still get to keep everything you already have plus you get to use some uber-heals and buffs sparingly. This solves a problem.

The problem? Druids say they aren't wanted in raids. If Druids had the same heals and buffs as clerics, they could go on more raids. With these, you'd have the same heals and buffs, and this would guarantee you'd only use them on raids. (although I know, in the end, druids everywhere would just go on month-long farm sessions to have an endless supply of heals/buffs for the full year). That way, you don't have to be nerfed and still get the raid utility.

I don't know if that makes any sense. Made sense in my head, at least.

I don't need to be nerfed to get raid ability as it stands now.

You make this error in assessment, assuming that we should be 1/3 effective at healing and nuking and DoTing.

I tell you this:

We should be 3/4 effective in healing and nuking. DoTing is gravy and Verant knows that all that need be done to make our DoTs fine is make our epic 1650 in 70 seconds or so.

You know, or at least should know and realize, that a character healing at 1/3rd the level of a cleric is useless in a group and on a raid.

Keep your @#%$ component heals. Just openly admit, for ****s sake, that you don't want to see Druids become useful in a group or raid situation.

"Now, the druid is obviously split into several different areas efficiency-wise. No three druids can agree on whether they want increased DoT, nuke, or healing efficiency, but the argument can readily be made that since druid's have (just to use rounded numbers) 33% healing efficiency, 33% nuke efficiency, and 33% DoT efficiency when compared with the standards (Cleric, Wizard, and Necro, respectively), it's not very fair to give them more in any one area, as that gives them too much, i.e. 150% efficiency."

the problem with this is that at 33% efficiency you arent contributing 33% of all of these skills at once, you're only able to do one at a time because the spells are such a mana sink... so, with all your mana, you're doing 33% as much as someone else can do with all their mana, making you only 33% of a real character.

ANY Class/race/guildie/whatever that complains about not getting enough money, or having to spend too much on this or that, or whatever....

www.eqtraders.com

Learn a tradeskill, make money like the rest of us and don't concern yourself with the trivial amounts of plat obtained in an EXP group. If you want EXP, then great. If you want money, learn a tradeskill.

Plain and simple there. Don't know how better to simplify it.

Wow... Just realized I been trolling this board forever and this is my first posts. :p

/cheer trolls

ANY Class/race/guildie/whatever that complains about not getting enough money, or having to spend too much on this or that, or whatever....

www.eqtraders.com

Learn a tradeskill, make money like the rest of us and don't concern yourself with the trivial amounts of plat obtained in an EXP group. If you want EXP, then great. If you want money, learn a tradeskill.

Plain and simple there. Don't know how better to simplify it.


ROFL...you assume a lot.

I am master in almost every trade skill, and working toward GM in tailoring (albeit very slowly).

No, I am NOT going to accept a vast time sink of tradeskilling to earn plat to buy expensive components to have a spell that I need to bring me in balance just because some clerics feel threatened.

Then continue to whine about being poor. (Directed at the folks that do, or the folks that whine about other classes ability to easily make money)
/shrug
I'm a Warrior by nature.... think I have any nitch whatsoever to be able to solo, much less make money? Yea, that's funny. No, I don't. But I CAN afford nice things here and there due to tradeskills.

Not intended as a flame, just an alternative. For alot of classes, soloing isn't a viable option, and the ability to solo mobs with desirable items to sell for loot is pretty much non-existant. 100-200pp split after hours of grouping? Trivial when you consider the price of the items wanted in the 55+ game.

I dont know if all the posts were directed at mine. But let me explain. I would want druid 75% incomplete heal and whatever other healing spells it takes to make druids viable in groups to go in component free. (hell they should already be in)

the reason I like druids getting the real CH with a component cost is that there is no way verant is going to give you the exact same spell as the clerics. If they balance it by extending the casting time, a tank may die on a raid. If they balance it by upping the mana cost, then our druids will run out of mana too fast on raids. For raid purposes I have no problems paying for our druids to be able to heal.

This is not to take away from the spells you should already be getting (no lets say should already have gotten) This is an additional spell to be used for raid purposes. If given the choice of aquiring the real CH with some kind of cost attached, which would most of you prefer: 1)extra mana, 2)extra cast time, or 3) component?

They are not currently considering you getting the real CH (well not that they have released), so we are not calling for a nerf. We are asking for them to add possibly more versatility. Heck I know if they offered my paladin a gate spell that cost 100 plat a shot, I would buy it. May not use it all the time but it would be nice to have. Likewise if they offered my cleric an invis spell at 10 plat a shot that I could use while naked, I would buy it. Would not use it all the time but would be nice to have. I hope people are not misunderstanding and think that I am calling for a component cost to be added to the spells they should have already given you. That is the big problem with them calling your new spell a CH. It isnt and for raid purposes you need the real CH.

As far as I am concerned the gimp CH they should have already given you should be supplemented with some HOTs or a better regen. All component free

The component cost would be on the real CH. So our argument is actually for an increase in your power over what verant has been considering. Why? Cause I need the help on raids(and I am 100% ready to pay my share of all cost for components you use in the raid). But giving the real CH, imo, would be unbalancing in exp groups without some kind of penalty. That is where you would use the 75% CH (with no component cost) combined with regen to keep up healing.

Let me repeat. I want you to have everything they have already talked about. All component free.

I want them to add more. The real CH to make you more viable on raids. but that I would want to have some kind of cost attatched so that my cleric does not become 100% null and void in exp groups. A druid with regen and the real CH would have more mana than me (due to regen keeping tanks up) and have better spells to use it on.
But for raids I could care less about who is more powerful. Anything which helps my guild helps me. The druid needs some way to cast the huge healing spells or all they have solved is the group viability problem while still not helping the raid problem. Maybe add the CH to druids but only castable in raid zones.
If someone understands what I am saying could they help out, I guess I am not real good with words.

I've got to ask the question. What server are you all playing on cause I'm on Emarr and know alot of lvl 60 clerics who are flat broke. No they don't demand all gems and they symbol freely as needed. 60 cleric does not = rich my roommate is a 60 cleric and if not for me constantly giving cash to them they often wouldn't have dot's to cast aego. If verant wants to drain the rich classes they need to look at melees honestly I don't see many casters (int or wis) putting out 100k + for a single item.

Gotta agree with you there...melee seem to be richest.

Certain component using classes do go through a fair amount of money on those components. I know mages that have to go farm on exp days in order to fund their pearls, and again clerics in my experience always get the cash loots.

I understand that the poster above is talking bout an additional spell that had a component. That is not what all the posts have said...some still say it is the only way the partial CH would be "balanced."

THe point remains though that at a peri a cast (or a more expensive gem) the spell would become almost useless. Yes, some guilds might fund their druids through a raid with a few stacks of peris, but in reality a durid would be spending an immense amount of time farming stuff for plat/cash drops in order to pay for the gems that allow them to get groups.

At this stage, things feel a little...grim. I don't see a component based heal as a balance.

thanks oak.

You are correct the partial incomplete heal has to go in the way it is without any component and have a couple of HOT's added to equal out group desirability. And druids would still be a little lower in desirability still since they would have less mana than a similar level cleric to cast the nifty extra spells. To me a little less desirability is fair as I believe verants goal was an overall balance between solo, group and raid and druids are better at solo. Without the 75% heal, the druids would not even be looked at for a group though. It is one thing to be picked up as healer and have to use almost all your mana to keep party alive--when you cant keep party alive is where the problem comes in. Hopefully with some new HOTs and the incomplete heal, druids will be more desirable in groups. That would balance out solo and grouping with druids being better solo and clerics a little better group (but not enough where people wait for clerics if a druid is available--like it is now)

That brings us to raiding. Tanks have considerably more hps in a raid situation than in a group. Partial heal may cut it for rampage tanks but not for main tank. My cleric is only 49 and has been called upon too many times to fill in on raids because our guild only has about 5 55+ clerics and sometimes two or more of them cant make it. We have about 6 55+ druids and if they could handle more healing in raids, maybe I would not wind up being paste so often--yes I am good at handling aggro but being that much lower tends to make more things aggro me. That is why I would like to see an additional spell added which is useful for raids but would not be overpowering in group exp. Like I said anything which adds to our guilds raid strength benefits me. If you would like a CH which could only be cast in raid level zones that would be perfectly fine with me also. But there needs to be something added for raid heals--without that something being abused in groups.

Of course if the 75% incomplete heal turns out to be inefficient in groups I would be 100% for them upping its power there also. The game is about having fun. It is a tightrope to walk on balancing. Right now the druid is on the definite lower end and I dont see the incomplete heal as unbalancing that at all. I think the real CH without any drawbacks would probably swing it too far the other way. But like it or not for raids almost nothing but CH might do. It is just a matter of finding out how to get the real CH used on raids while still having druids use the 75% heal and other HOT spells in groups. I admit I dont have the answer. May Brell aid you all in your quest though.

I don't mind your idea on component heals. I'd love to have a 75% CH, and a better HOT than Natures Recovery to use in groups. Those should of course be component free. (And maybe just a little faster than the 75% CH currently on test, since Clerics have so much more healing power now)

But a real CH, would be awesome to have, for raids like you said. Maybe we could make it use something rather rare, that is no drop, or just plain expensive. If you're a raiding druid, you will get these items while raiding. If you're not, you won't. It would limit some of the abuse you're worried about.

Even high level guilds wouldn't be supplying their druids with "spare" components. They would live in a bank vault, (or the druid's if ND) until needed. I'm sure most guilds wouldn't want their druids wasting their hard-earned CH components, only to fall short on a raid.

What the... I said the exact same thing one page back.

I don't understand. Why do clerics want druids to have component heals when they don't have component heals? I could see clerics wanting druid buffs (skins, potg) to require dots, but why heals?

Jeez, grumpy, grumpy people.

And what the heck are selling in tradeskills and making money in?

*are you selling

grammar > chenier

[ANY Class/race/guildie/whatever that complains about not getting enough money, or having to spend too much on this or that, or whatever....

www.eqtraders.com

Learn a tradeskill, make money like the rest of us[/quote]

let me point out something youve apparently missed:

tardeskills suck @#%$. they really, really, really suck. there is nothing remotely fun or interesting about them.

as such, they need to remain as they were way back pre-velious: comepletely optional... somewhere up there with cybersex in terms of how much they helped you advance in the game.

*Troll cleric pokes head in for a minute*

The justification I could see for it costing a component would be that it is to keep it for raids and emergencies, putting it exactly in line with the wizards' bane lines (cost a peridot, cost footed by the raid) and the necromancers' resurrection line (essence emeralds, further hampered by the need for sacrifices etc).

If you don't like the sound of it, fine. Seemed like a nice way around the 'how do we limit this ability to raids' problem, if Verant does perceive that as a problem. If you want to perceive it as a cleric plot to punish you, that's also your prerogative.

Also, bear in mind that with an opal encrusted stein in each hand, a dwarf with 50 natural charisma can buy peridots at 10.5 pp each in shadowhaven. If you're being ripped off by your cleric regularly it's time to say 'minimum cost of peridots will be covered in cash drops and no more' at the start of the group, and keep track of the number of marzins they cast: if they're cheap like me and casting Group Naltron, the cost is even smaller.

The difference between the bane spells and a component heal is:

Bane spells are cast for specific mobs.

If I'm being asked to heal a group during a raid...I'll be casting heals constantly.

Not to mention on boss mobs you cast a hell of a lot more CHs than wizards cast Bane nukes.

The idea is quite simply a new way some @#%$ ****tard of a cleric figured out to "throw druids a bone" while ensuring we don't gain any actual usefulness.

That simple.

btw: Druids need improvements for grouping as well as raiding.

Only way I can see them justify a component for heals is if it's like our Fire beetle eye. k I'll be quie now tho, since they say verant cares about this board?

How can you call people posting on other boards trolls Fyyr? Just wondering. Trolling would be if they posted it here to stir up a reaction.

If you don't like it, don't read the cleric boards :p

quick question for aidion and chenier

Do you think druids should get the exact same CH as clerics? Do you think it should be the same but cost 600 mana, same but take 15 secs to cast? What I am trying to do is find a way to give druids a raid worthy heal without making it overpowering in groups. The 75% heal is group worthy but not raid worthy(well at least imo for my guild it isnt)

The longer cast time/recast time would hurt my guild cause MT might die before it lands. More mana would result in druid going oom right when MT needs heal. However real CH with no drawbacks would result in both cleric and druid healing for exact same efficiency in groups--actually druids would be more efficient including regen. That would result in the fear every cleric has. Why would anyone ever pick a cleric over druid when they both have same left over mana and druids is so much more versatile? Maybe POP will solve the problem by giveing druids a version of the real CH that can only be cast in raid zones.

I'm in the gray area on the BitterDruid Meter...I think the 75% heal will be a help even with it's current stats. Granted, I'd be happier with shorter cast time/less mana, but then I'd love to work less for more money in RL as well =P.

I just don't understand why someone would think requiring a component for healing is even within the bounds of something logical for EQ. I work my @#%$ off in raids; gathering people, porting, invising, coh anchor, buffing, rebuffing, buffing again, main healer for my group, last to leave to make sure everyone gets out. I gotta fight with ninja-aego clerics to not overwrite my potg (for those who wanted it instead), fight with the bards so I junk buff, and fight with the mages to get rods ("no, those are only for clerics" /seethe).

Now you wanna charge me to heal? I don't think so.

Is there a grumpy druids group? Kinda like a juinor boyscouts of Bitter Druids?

Elindel,

I have not posted to this thread.

I almost replied to the bearded Dwarf lady. Was essentially saying that classes that want the spells cast on them should be responsible for carrying the components, not the caster; I deleted it because it was so obvious it seemed patronizing.

The thread poster posted some 'inflammatory' commentary, which is better saved for the likes of BBSmutboard. I edited that out.

I think you have me confused with someone else.

Anyways, thanks for stopping by and for the smile.

I agree with you 100% Chen.... as a Druid I bust my @#%$ in a raid, before, during AND after..... I got tired of hearing clerics say...."our worst fears come to life... we can't get a group..." WELL NOW..

WELCOME to the life of a higher level Druid!

Now you clerics have your ubah hammer so do as you tell me, GO SOLO SOMEWHERE

Ok, Ok.... so that is unrealistic.... but so would a component heal be for druids.. I know why clerics want the compenet heal, becasue then for us to use it we'd HAVE to go broke... and really, how many druids are gonna spend their bank on an exp group???? NOW, if I chose to do that, you're damn skippy I would be wanting some of the gem drops and cash loots, and I'd EXPECT to get some of em.. hmmmmm but me thinks the clerics would get a bit pissy at that....

and hmmmm wonder what component they suggest druids would have to use? hmm opal.... star ruby... sapphire

wanna know why druids don't stop the rain too much.... its a component spell that costs us an opal to do it.... think about it a little....

anyway, I digress...

Druids NEED some balance.... is a CH the answer, maybe, maybe not... but at least its a start..... maybe if Verant decides we are to be the taxi class only... possiblyt more druid rings... shorter cast time on ports, less mana usage on ports.... who knows.... I just want them to figure it out then implement it... if I'm supposed to be the lev or sow queen, or whatever.. then give me some better spells...

in all reality, there DOES need to be better heal for high level druids that makes sense for raid situations and for group situations... sure we got NT, but the mana usage outweighs many of the benefits in the long term... so maybe up what we have a little, reduce the cast time and mana usage a little and call it an upgrade...

Druids need something more in line with the dynamics of the game and zones in the post 50 game.... so maybe let's go from that angle....

Just to clarify: I'm not actually campaigning for you guys to get a component heal - I don't like having component spells, the wizards also hate having to spend components for their banes to, I certainly wouldn't wish it on anyone for heals where you can't really plan the number you're going to have to cast for that raid or group...

However, IF, as many people seem to think, Verant is refusing to budge on CH's for druids/shamans and IF (again it is just speculation, we haven't had word from Verant have we?) the reason is because they want to buff up druids/shamans for raids and help remove the overdependence on clerics for raiding without totally messing up grouping balance ... then perhaps druids/shamans should be thinking laterally, and trying to find compromises that Verant would go for as well as the druid/shaman communities.

PS: I don't do pickup groups at all: I'm not in the business of competing for groups with druids/shamans and all power to them if they get a componentless CH, so I might well be seen as a class traitor by some clerics. /shrug.

Treyna

That is why I support you getting the 75% incomplete heal and some kinds of HOT for grouping--both componentless.

The real CH spell would be an addition to those and I am just trying to think of a way to reserve it for raids so it doesnt overpower druids for exp groups. I dont care if it is component based or only usable in raid zones. I am against longer cast times and increased mana cost for the reasons I stated above--my guild has to rely on druids for healing in raids.

And if it did become component cost and you were not furnished comonents ahead of time in raid, I would be complaining just as loud as you to get you compensated. And if they refused, I would split every thing I made equally with you. Why?? Cause your healing on the raid helps me out also.

I argue the component cost or raid zone only condition for the real CH only. Not the 75% one. That one should be a given. You should already have that spell and it should be componentless and backed up with some other moderate HOTs. If the real CH was given to druids with no modifiers, I would switch to my druid and never go back to cleric again (unless I needed rez). He would become a bot.

I have said before I think cleric needs to be a little better in group and druids a little better solo. Right now Clerics are too much better in group. admitted freely by me--I get tired of running oom with my druid and watching someone almost die. But I also know if she had the true CH with no modifications--it would probably be too much. I like the new incomplete heal--I worry a little about the 3k cap with POP coming out and would hope they would keep an eye on that. I would also like a moderate HOT. But the real CH for grouping? NO.

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two current situations in velks lab

PARTY: looking for healer with both 56 druid and 56 cleric in zone

Party says LF healer and both druid and cleric answer--they pick cleric= acceptable

PARTY: looking for healer with just 56 druid in zone

Party says LF healer and druid answers and they reply they would rather wait for cleric=unacceptable

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I want my cleric preferred over my druid for grouping by a little bit---but just a little bit. Without a cleric around a druid should be able to fill in with no problems.( and currently they cant) Just as I always want my druid to solo a little better than my cleric--but just a little bit. (and currently he is not close) If I wanted the two to be exactly equal, I would not have made two different characters. To all of you arguing for better healing (ie 75% incomplete heal and maybe a little extra, I salute you). If you are arguing for the full CH with no modifications, I do ask you to consider the impact that would have.

Now raiding is a different kettle of fish all together. IMO if I could give every class more powerful abilities I would. We are all in it together in a raid (unlike a group where we compete for spots). The better my druids do, the better the raid goes and the better off I am.

OH well I am rambling now. CIAO

LMFAO! You got your title Bro!....But..umm...Does Nat know your now a puppy?

Doh! that post was for Ikta :) heh,heh blonde moment there....