Druids have been asking for a long time to get mobs that should be tagged as animals, tagged as animals.

Okay, let's make this easier for the dev's to fix. Please reply with THE EXACT NAME of the mobs you think need fixed and ALL THE ZONES you can find them in. If you reply with something ambigous like "wolves in GoD", Imma delete your post. Be exact.

I'll take the list and hound the devs on the EQLive Leaders boards. Ready....go!

In fact, I'll keep the main list here (easier to check):

LDON
Everfrost
A Whimpering Wolf
A Starving Cougar
A Muddled Panther

Rujarkian Hills
A Battle Harrower
A Flesheater alla's has it tagged animal, but I don't think it is.. May be wrong though
A Foe Mauler
A War Boar

VELIOUS
Cobalt Scar
A Bulthar
A Bulthar Herdleader
A Cobalt Drake - questionable since it casts (sentient?)
A Wyvern
A Coldwater Baracudda

Crystal Caverns
A Crystal Crawler
A Crystal Spider
A Crystal Spiderling
A Crystal Webmaster
A Velium Crawler (Are all these spiders made of Crystal/Velium, or just hang around it so much and look like it? Could be either way... but most likely monsters.)

Dragon Necropolis
A Deadly Phase Spider
A Phase Spider
A Swarming Beetle
A Venomous Phase Spider

Eastern Wastes
A Manticore
A Ulthork Man o War
A Ulthork Warrior
An Ulthork Hunter

Plane of Growth
A Glade Stalker
A Phase Puma
A Rolling Plains Steed
A Sanguine Kodiak
A Spirit Flux Wolf
Gale Wolf

Siren's Grotto
A Giant Walrus Marked monster on Alla, again could already be an animal

Velketor's Labyrinth
A Crystal Crawler
A Crystal Spider
A Crystal Spiderling
A Crystal Webmaster
A Velium Crawler Are all these spiders made of Crystal/Velium, or just hang around it so much and look like it? Could be either way... but most likely monsters.

Wakening Lands
A Drixie Thane
A Faerie Dragon
A Holgresh Conjurer
A Holgresh Elementalist

KUNARK
The Burning Woods
An Ember Hornet
An Ash Hornet
A Cinder Hornet
A Scoriae Hornet

Dreadlands
A Glacier Yeti
A Petrafier Cockatrice
A Petrifier Cockatrice
A Stonegazer Cockatrice
A Stoneleer Cockatrice
A Tundra Yeti
A Voracious Brute

Emerald Jungle
A Soulsipper
Giant Scourgewing Mosquito

The Frontier Mountains
A Berserk Brute
A Diseased Brute
A Gorging Brute
A Mangy Brute
A Rabid Brute

The Overthere
A Stonegazer Cockatrice
A Stoneglint Cockatrice
A Stoneleer Cockatrice
A Stonepeep Cockatrice

Swamp of No Hope
A Bloodvein Mosquito
A Large Mosquito
A Mosquito

Temple of Droga
A Deadly Drogan Spider
A Fierce Drogan Spider
A Noxious Drogan Spider
A Savage Drogan Spider
A Swift Drogan Spider

Timorous Deep
A Hulking Golra
A Streamer
Golra
Fire Gator
Halara (marked animal on Alla but could be wrong... or the other Golras are marked wrong)

OLD WORLD

Sol B
Lava Duct Crawler
Stone Spider
Noxious Spider

Cobalt Scar
A Bulthar
A Bulthar Herdleader
A Cobalt Drake
A Wyvern
(Alla's shows some sharks and barracudas not tagged as animals.. but I'm not sure if that's accurate. Can anybody confirm this?)

Dreadlands
A Glacier Yeti
A Petrafier Cockatrice
A Petrifier Cockatrice
A Stonegazer Cockatrice
A Stoneleer Cockatrice
A Tundra Yeti
A Voracious Brute

The Overthere
A Stonegazer Cockatrice
A Stoneglint Cockatrice
A Stoneleer Cockatrice
A Stonepeep Cockatrice

Are any of the druid charmable mobs casters? I mean, I don't think CS cobalt drakes should be charmable because they're wizards and I can't think of any druid charmable mobs that are casters....

I wouldn't agree with any of those being animals Chenier really. They're all monsters.

My personal opinion is that all the zones were designed with various animals or not, and balanced that way. Giving druids more capacility in the zones with these creatures isn't what the designers intended so lets leave it that way. Charm and dire charm isn't meant to be used in those places.

I'd be in favour of a proper animal lull spell for druids/rangers really, but it would affect the way people play in lot of indoor zones.

I can see some of these and the previous suggestions being both ways... Especially since there's some inconsistancies with what has been tagged animals. We can DC little spiders I believe in Fire, but not anywhere else? We can charm griffons but not cockatrices? Here are some that I remembered and looked up on Alla... they aren't labeled animals there but Alla could be wrong.

The Burning Woods
An Ember Hornet
An Ash Hornet
A Cinder Hornet
A Scoriae Hornet

The Frontier Mountaints
A Berserk Brute
A Diseased Brute
A Gorging Brute
A Mangy Brute
A Rabid Brute

Timorous Deep
A Hulking Golra
A Streamer
Golra
Fire Gator
Halara (marked animal on Alla but could be wrong... or the other Golras are marked wrong)

Swamp of No Hope
A Bloodvein Mosquito
A Large Mosquito
A Mosquito

Emerald Jungle
A Soulsipper
Giant Scourgewing Mosquito

Cobalt Scar
A Coldwater Baracudda

Crystal Caverns
A Crystal Crawler
A Crystal Spider
A Crystal Spiderling
A Crystal Webmaster
A Velium Crawler (Are all these spiders made of Crystal/Velium, or just hang around it so much and look like it? Could be either way... but most likely monsters.)

Eastern Wastes
A Manticore
A Ulthork Man o War
A Ulthork Warrior
An Ulthork Hunter

Dragon Necropolis
A Deadly Phase Spider
A Phase Spider
A Swarming Beetle
A Venomous Phase Spider

Siren's Grotto
A Giant Walrus (Marked monster on Alla, again could already be an animal

Velketor's Labyrinth
(Errm... can I just say spidies here too Chenier if the other spidies in Crystal Cavern's are accepted as animals? Gets to be a pain to type all them out. *L* >.>)

Wakening Lands
A Drixie Thane
A Faerie Dragon
A Holgresh Conjurer
A Holgresh Elementalist

>< I know there's plenty more, like Fire Beetles, Scarabs, Spiders in the Ro Deserts so on and so forth.

I think though that our best bet would be to decide on a definition of "Animal" and then just list every mob that isn't listed as that. As it is, so far we can charm mammals, fish, 1 insect that I know of, some magical animals (griffons)... and so on, but there are other creatures that are similiar to those that we cannot, such as Cockatrices, Scoriae Hornets *adds that to the list above*, and spiders that we can't charm.

I think they started out with a D&Dish definition of animal, i.e., has no magical powers, and isn't smart/humanoid. The bulthar, brutes, yeti etc type mobs are too high on the almost humanoid scale I think. cockatrices in D&D are pure magical, griffons are not a natural world animal, but have nothing magical about them.

They could certainly be more consistent with the fish/insect aspect tho. The spider is probably a mistake, can't think of any other spider/insect type mob that is charmable.

The spider is probably a mistake, can't think of any other spider/insect type mob that is charmable.I think I just figured out what they will "fix" from this list! :p

Having no prior experience with D+D.. I don't see any reasons why anything that is a flesh and blood creature that isn't sentient shouldn't be designated as an animal.

But that's my definition.

If it can talk to me, I don't expect it to be an animal.. if it just clucks at me and pecks.. by Tunare I should be able to control it.

My 2cp.

By the way, before you say insects should be non-charmable.
Each insect (non sentient) should be tagged animal and charmable.

After all, druids already control hundreds... to thousands and if you ever met tunare angry.... millions of insects.

Thats right, read what Swarming Death line is. Insects we sick on our foe.

Most of PoG needs to be tagged animal

A Glade Stalker
A Phase Puma
A Rolling Plains Steed
A Sanguine Kodiak
A Spirit Flux Wolf
Gale Wolf

Temple of Droga:
A Deadly Drogan Spider
A Fierce Drogan Spider
A Noxious Drogan Spider
A Savage Drogan Spider
A Swift Drogan Spider

Everfrost LDoN:
A Whimpering Wolf
A Starving Cougar
A Muddled Panther

Rujarkian Hills LDoN:
A Battle Harrower
A Flesheater (alla's has it tagged animal, but I don't think it is.. May be wrong though)
A Foe Mauler
A War Boar

If they are worried about balance on charming - tag them all as animals (so glamor works... then make them charm immune).

I disagree on insects though - these should not be animal tagged imho. I guess I see animal as non-intelligent mammals and reptiles- bears, cats, dogs, snakes etc. Cobalt Drakes arent intelligent per se - they are not casters they just have a breath weapon in the same way some dumb mobs proc effects.

Cobalt drakes and wyrvens IMO are dragons so shouldn't be tagged animal. Insects maybe should be tossed to us as a bone. Holgresh ... cockatrice .. Hrmmm I suppose if a griffon is an animal they can be too... There are griffons in east wastes that can cast .. and they are charamable. The seahorses in Kedge are clerics they can cast and are dire charmable ;)

There are griffons in east wastes that can cast .. and they are charamable. The seahorses in Kedge are clerics they can cast and are dire charmable ;)
Weird.

Maybe two lists; one "definitely should be tagged as animals" and another "should be considered because of x, y and z".

Regardless, if we can get some more mobs tagged as animals, the better.

Dont forget old world mobs...

Sol B
-----
Lava Duct Crawler
Stone Spider
Noxious Spider

The really frustrating thing about the LDON MOBS is that the Polar Bears and Cougars in EF and the Fleshfeasters and Harrowers in EF and even the frogs in Tak are tagged as animals - they're just specifically tagged charm immune

You know druid = being able to charm animals sorry its BS that we cant in my book

D&D isn't Everquest, and Everquest isn't D&D, so I wouldn't go too deep into the 'animal' thing in respects to D&D.

IMO, insects should be flagged as animals. I think the non-sentient, corporeal (of this world, not summoned or spirit based, or otherwise motivated) description fits as an adequate guideline for an "animal".

Also on the flagged, but not charmable part, well then whats the point. The reason druids have charm is because it fits with our class description and being limited to animals in enough. I can understand if it was easy to charm, but lets face it guys, regular charm is very dangerous especially after you have the pet buffed and hasted. Charming isn't a walk in the park, as it should be. I die more from a charmed pet more often than I do fighting other mobs, grouped or ungrouped.

I think it's enough that somehow my druid isn't "in tune" with nature deep undergroud in a dungeon, with roots and bugs crawling all over the place. Having a blatant animal in front of me that I can't charm, for any reason other that it is too high a level to me, is rediculous.

To add to that list, PoH rats, are not marked as animals is because they are marked as "undead". I think that maybe part of the problem. That it isn't that they aren't flagged as animal so much, it is that they are flagged something else altogether.

And dad-blastit, druids need a new cham in the high 50's, or the current one needs adjusting. I hate going to charm a blue animal only to get the "this animal is too high a level for this spell" or whatever it is, message. It's blue, I'm higher level, let me charm it. 53 is too low for this spell, and druids don't get an upgrade till 63.

Aren't the Gryphons in Eastern Wastes, casters? I seem to recall charming those.

We've had this animal thread before. I thought we settled on , traditional reptiles, fish, and mamals, or mobs that might be considered mamals. This ruled out all the bugs. I think Lotusfly created a list of mobs that can be charmmed that still lives in the archives.

My beef isn't with mobs that aren't tagged animals. My gripe is that the animals are too high to charm, period. Give me something to charm in Vext & Tipt, etc. I don't need a level 85 pet, but for G.o.D.s sake, give me something! I wasn't around when mob levels were upped -- I can only imagine how pissed that made some Druids.

Lotharun of Bristlebane

Fear Plane Warders and Apes used to be charmable but most now are too high level.
Spiders and moquitoes are questionable but since we control swarms it is a toss up.
Some unicorns are charmable and some are not so that is another questionable area.

Basicly the ones I see that really should be tagged are:
Any form of bird, wolf, cat, bear, rat or monkey.
Fish, Sharks and seahorses.
Walruses and turtles
Alligators, Raptors and Allesauras (big lizzard in OoT).
(non-vampire) Bats

Ones that are a toss-up for me are:
Arachnids/Insects: spiders, centipeds, moquitoes
Worms (some are and some are not)
Griffins and Unicorns
Vampire bats (Vamprire bats are not but most bats are. Real world Vampire bats would be but not if they are Vampires in shapeshifted form.)

My beef is that the Devs are too lazy to think when they creat a mob and tag it properly.

I could see where the undead monkeys in Kunark could be confusing but if you can't tell whether a monkey is an animal or not then don't put it in the game. Undead monkeys should either be both animal and monkey or undead but a regular monkey should be an animal. Even worse is when they can't realize a rat or wolf is an animal.

But then, they are even worse on plants by not letting our debuff and fear spells work on them.

But then, they are even worse on plants by not letting our debuff and fear spells work on them.

Not to mention that our plant charm is all but useless, and we never see another upgrade to it.

Too bad it's kind of late to retag everything Animal/Plant as [Nature] and just let us charm "Nature" with our regular spells. Course, they could take the easy way out and tag plants as "Animals" and just let us charm them regularly. Heck... it would almost make it worthwhile to have an mez or slow for "Animals" if they did that.

GOD- KT/ikkinz

Bone Retriever dudes seem like animals to me, and the cragbeasts. would be nice to solo in KT. If only they were lower level and the bone retriever dude's seem like animals for some odd reason 0.o...maybe its just me. ohh and the little howler dog looking things in KT. those would make ubah pets 0.o.

Is this it, guys? I mean, a lot of these would be cool for low to mid range druids and I'm all for that, but not a whole here for 55-ish+.

When we were collecting comments to submit for the summit, a lot of people said "yeah, get the right NPC monsters tagged as animals." I really thought folks were talking about all level ranges.

Or is it that we'd also like to see the cap raised to include those animals mobs that are animals but are too high for us?

Wassa scoop? =)

If it looks like an animal, yes insects are animals too (we sumon them for our dots don't we?), A druid should have a chance to charm it. The limit of animals only is enough of a restriction and charming is dangerous enough without having artificial restrictions put on us.

On a related note, it seems that the tanks classes are having a fit that pets are tanking GoD instead of them. Funny thing is that I have a warrior the same level as my druid and by no means is it easier to charm than it is for that warrior to tank. They make it out like it is easy, an undermines their group function. Well it does undermine it, I won't argue that it doesn't, but to make out like its easy, is a disservice to the caster. I find that very disrespectful for them to be saying something like that. That person doing the charming is putting themselves at more risk to save the neck of the tank. They should be thanking them for their skill and dedication not slandering their ability and ingenuity.

for the 55+ is another question since the miss-tagging of animals has been an issue since release (grif is Peggy/nightmare aren't, Bats are vampirebats aren't, etc) and just got worse with time.

55+ there are all the PoP animals, rats, spiders, ravens, gators, etc that should be but generally are not. The Corrupted Panther, raptors and unicorn in WL are not. Spiders in Velks and DN are not. Worms in WW are not. Worms, wolves, raptors and spiders in Luchin are charmable sometimes. LDoN Wolves, bears, spiders, rats, boars, etc usually are not animals or are uncharmable (rarely you can find a wolf that is lt blue and charmable).

Basicly if it looks like an animal, acts like an animal and fights like an animal but is of a power equal to the zone.... Then it is not an animal. If it is the weakest thing in the zone, then maybe it is an animal.

The problem is both the tagging and level limit. Usually you cannot protest one or the other because they are both bugged and need to be both fixed to make any difference.

What good is tagging something an animal if it is too high level, un(fill in the blank with charm/snare/root/etc)able, summons, or out right immune to magic. SoE created those limits specificly to prevent druids from being viable charmers and they all need to be readdressed since outdated and counterproductive.

The problem with tags is mostly mentioned for those that are low enough level that we could cast on them since tags don't matter if the spell limit is so low we can't use it anyway. What you appear to be asking is what mobs are 55+ characters fighting that are of a low enough level to charm, in a zone where they are worth charming and are not tagged.

Soooo, then gimme a list of higher level NPC monsters that should be tagged as animals.

I think we all agree that two things need to happen; tag things as animals and raise the cap. The raising the cap is simple switch for SOE (I would assume) if they choose to do it. Tagging things as animals requires figuring it out.

If we put together the list, then they don't have to figure it out.

List the higher level mobs, all those bats, cats, lions, tigers and bears oh my so I or Scirocco can submit it!

Or, don't complain when they don't fix animal tags.

Ldon animals are the main ones, the ones that are (uncharmable). They piss me off =P, would be awesome to actually be able to charm an animal in something other then EC. As for lvl cap, that would be awesome, i would so pwnt KT if i were able to charm something in it 0.o, our cap atm is to low for anything in the new expansions.

Charming in kodtaz would be a little insane - there is a reason that they made the whole zone charm immune... before that chanters with a charmed ra'tuq did all the work and the remaining group members just tagged along leaching xp.

God charming is a bit of a problem - we are restricted to Natimbi and Tvexu. Don't think I have come across druid charmable mobs elsewhere. I can understand the problem though: charm + pet haste + long lasting snare + not summoning + heals would be very overpowered.

By the way, before you say insects should be non-charmable.
Each insect (non sentient) should be tagged animal and charmable.

After all, druids already control hundreds... to thousands and if you ever met tunare angry.... millions of insects.

Thats right, read what Swarming Death line is. Insects we sick on our foe.

By that logic, druids should be able to charm plants as well (snare/root). Insects are not animals. While druids can anger insects to attack a foe, they cannot completely control the insects.

By that logic, druids should be able to charm plants as well (snare/root). Insects are not animals. While druids can anger insects to attack a foe, they cannot completely control the insects.

Umm... we can.. But they are also not properly tagged and the spell level limit makes it useless also.

By that logic, druids should be able to charm plants as well (snare/root).
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=753&source=Live

(Never mind that it's almost completely useless due to the lack of appropriate plants under the spell limit...)

ok, took 5 mins (ok, maybe 6) to do a quick check.. Picked one PoP zone, Doomfire at random and found the following animals that are tagged monsters.

Doomfire, the Burning Lands
A Fiery Spirit Equine
A Fiery Spirit Equine Lord
A Fiery Spirit Steed
A Giant Obsidian Tree Spider
A Lesser Fiery Spirit Steed
A Trained Obsidian Spider
A Young Obsidian Tree Spiderling
An Obsidian Tree Spider
An Obsidian Tree Spiderling
Babnoxis the Spider Queen
Dark Obsidian Lava Spider
Fiery Spirit Steed Overlord
Obsidian Tree Spider Queen
Obsidian War Spider
Pyronis
Quavonis Firetail
Wild Fiery Spirit Steed

Seems if I were being paid as much as a Dev I could take the time to change that one field in each of them before noon. The people that make their living supposedly doing this job would be fired if this were any job of importance such as corporate logistics or even worse the military. But evidently SoE doesn't see competence as a job prerequisite.

I'd have to agree on the whole insect thing; they should be charmable too. Animal schmanimal, we're supposed to be masters of nature. Animals, insects, fish, plants, wind, rain, thunder, lightning. All that rot. =)

Mainly I also agree with the problem mostly being in level limits, but I'm pre-elemental so can't speak to those areas.

My gripe is I can't charm Wrulon Guards in HoH. =)

You need to remove all the spiders, hornets and Ulthorks from the list. It's not realistic in terms of what has a chance of happening. Best if the list is kept to realistic doable things, not wishlists.

I think you guys are going a bit too far with this. For example-

[...]the following animals that are tagged monsters.

Doomfire, the Burning Lands
A Fiery Spirit Equine
A Fiery Spirit Equine Lord
A Fiery Spirit Steed

Could be said that they are spirits- therefore are not corporeal and certainly not animals.

A Giant Obsidian Tree Spider
A Lesser Fiery Spirit Steed
A Trained Obsidian Spider
A Young Obsidian Tree Spiderling
An Obsidian Tree Spider
An Obsidian Tree Spiderling
Dark Obsidian Lava Spider
Fiery Spirit Steed Overlord
Wild Fiery Spirit Steed
Obsidian Tree Spider Queen
Obsidian War Spider
Whats to say that these are animals anyway? These are creatures that Fennin Ro created to populate his home plane. Why do you even want all of these flagged, for more charming abilities?


Babnoxis the Spider Queen
Pyronis
Quavonis Firetail

You forgot Criare Sunmane and Jazolix Dawneyes.
These are mini bosses, not animals. These are sentient, speaking creatures- greater servants of Fennin. Looking to charm them or something? :ange:

Besides that, dragon-kin should not be animals. Ulthork and such are too humanoid- they are only controlled by the Sirens because, well they are Sirens. So what is the point of all of this? More solo power? More charmable creatures? More things to anitash?

Equine and Steed indicate hipo (horse) which is an animal by all rights.

(Quote: Zarath "Could be said that they are spirits- therefore are not corporeal and certainly not animals.") Well it could also be said that they are electornic bits of data and certainly not animals. They look like animals, have animal names and act like animals.. Booboo is a "Spirit" but we mistakenly call him a bear.. what is your problem with defining them as animals. You seem to miss the point... The "Spirits" that appear to be elementals are tagged as "Summoned" but the animals are not... That is incompetence, not reason.


Insects (and arachids) are animals with the main subdivision of exoskeleton. They are natural bioorganisms which should fall under the category of "Nature" but specifically if you look them up in the dictionary the first part of the definition is "Animal".

(Quote: You forgot Criare Sunmane and Jazolix Dawneyes.
These are mini bosses, not animals. These are sentient, speaking creatures- greater servants of Fennin. Looking to charm them or something?)

No I didn't forget them, they are demons unless you think that since they are batlike they should be included....

And who says a miniboss can't be an animal? Being an animal has nothing to do with charming since they would be above the level anyway and if SoE didn't want the Enchanters to charm them they would just tag them as uncharmable. There are already lv 65 -70 Animals in the game. SoE offers charming as an option then removes it because they cannot figure out how to program the game to function within their own rules. Boss Undead and Elemental would be the same situation.

Zarath, just took 32 seconds to check.. you "Spirit" Arguement is invalid.. the following is a list of "Spirits" that are tagged "animal" by SoE.

A Guardian Spirit 55 - 55 Animal The Umbral Plains
A Spirit Stalker 12 - 16 Animal Eastern Karana
The Icebound Spirit 55 - 55 Animal Permafrost
The Spirit of Decay 55 - 55 Animal Feerrott
The Spirit of Rage 55 - 55 Animal Emerald Jungle

Try again..

did a quick check for invertibrates tagged as animals and found.

Spiders:
A Crab Spiderling 1 - 1 Animal Innothule Swamp
A Desert Spiderling 2 - 2 Animal Northern Desert of Ro
A Dune Spiderling 3 - 5 Animal Northern Desert of Ro
A Giant Wood Spider 7 - 10 Animal Misty Thicket
A Large Wood Spider 4 - 6 Animal Misty Thicket
A Sludge Spiderling 4 - 4 Animal Qeynos Aqueducts
A Widow Spider 7 - 10 Animal Toxxulia Forest
A Tame Hatchling 1 - 1 Animal Gukta, Outpost of Marr

Wasps / Mosquito:
A Large Yellow Recluse 7 - 8 Animal Steamfont
A Large Yellowjacket 6 - 7 Animal Misty Thick
A Virulent Mosquito 58 - 59 Animal Cazic Thule

Scorpions:
A Scourgetail Scorpion 9 - 14 Animal Field of Bone
A Noxious Scorpannis 58 - 59 Animal Plane of Storms

Worms:
A Xakra Larva 1 - 3 Animal Shar Vahl
A Swamp Leech 1 - 1 Animal Swamp of No Hope
A Xakra Sei 46 - 46 Animal The Grey
A Xakra Shah 45 - 46 Animal The Grey
A Giant Frenzied Leech 36 - 40 Animal Emerald Jungle
Venomous Lamprey 22 - 26 Animal Firiona Vie

Just for reference. There may be one or two that I missed.

A Giant Obsidian Tree Spider
A Lesser Fiery Spirit Steed
A Trained Obsidian Spider
A Young Obsidian Tree Spiderling
An Obsidian Tree Spider
An Obsidian Tree Spiderling
Dark Obsidian Lava Spider
Fiery Spirit Steed Overlord
Wild Fiery Spirit Steed
Obsidian Tree Spider Queen
Obsidian War Spider

Whats to say that these are animals anyway? These are creatures that Fennin Ro created to populate his home plane. Why do you even want all of these flagged, for more charming abilities?


Well... A Young Obsidian Spider (or something like that) is the DC animal for druids in PoFire... so I would think that the other spiders would be animals too. ;)

Criare and Jaz are birds. Oh, and the Summoned flag is gone for most ep mobs. What I am saying is these "animals" might not be "animals" seeing as they are creatures that inhabit a completely different plane and are a far cry from the actual animals of Norrath, so don't be so quick on the "Look like spider, must be spider" logic. Sony does not always see things as you do.

My point is why? What does it benefit?

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=753&source=Live

(Never mind that it's almost completely useless due to the lack of appropriate plants under the spell limit...)


My apologies, I was unaware of the charm plant spell. However, my arguement still applies as you have a seperate spell to charm plants. If you want to charm insects, ask for a charm insect line of spells instead or rename one of your current charms to something like "Nature's Charm" which could charm plant, animal, and insect alike. This seems much more logical to me then just tagging insects as animals and calling it good.

Gattwin, I suppose you want us to break down all species of animals for different charm spells? The two spell lines are broadly defined: plant and animal. No reason to create a different spell for each species.

What some folks here are a bit disgruntled about is the inconsistency from SOE in how they determine which mobs to flag as animals. In one zone worms are animals, in another zone they're not. In one zone birds are animals, in another zone they're not.

I don't think it's unreasonable for druids to ask how we're supposed to tell the difference so we'll have a better idea when it's appropriate to bugreport a mob flagged as 'monster' and when it isn't. In absence of any definition, the next best option is to give SOE a list of mobs that we think *could* be animals based on their similarities to animal mobs in other places, and devs decide if any were incorrectly flagged.

Zarath, you're just being argumentative by repeating your question of 'why' we're asking about this. Obviously, getting animal mobs properly tagged makes them subject to our animal-related spell lines, which allows us more options for dealing with those mobs and we may even find a use for some of them as charmed pets. If you're just trying to farm a quote from a druid so you can run off to another class board or priest covenant and say "oh look what druids are asking for now!!" .. well, use my quote above. I think that should be clear enough to start a nice drama thread somewhere.

You play a mage and I'd imagine you're harboring a grudge that druids have situationally been able to charm a pet that is more powerful than yours. Okay. We get that. You're supposed to be the master of all pets, nobody should have a pet as great and wonderful as a mage's, yada yada. But please stop trolling. If you have a suggestion for the list Chenier is creating, by all means post away. Otherwise, lurk quietly and wait for those scandalous quotes... you don't need to bait for them.

~Firemynd

Seems if I were being paid as much as a Dev I could take the time to change that one field in each of them before noon. The people that make their living supposedly doing this job would be fired if this were any job of importance such as corporate logistics or even worse the military. But evidently SoE doesn't see competence as a job prerequisite.
I'd rather not have any of us passing judgement on a) how difficult or not composing this list is or b) how constructively SOE dev's spend their day.

When you talk to any software company about bugs, you have to be specific. The more specific you are, the easier it is for the software developers to look into and hopefully fix the problem. Could they find it themselves? Sure, probably eventually. But if the problem is very important to you and you make it easier for the developer to find the problem to fix, the more likely it will be to be fixed.

<-- works in software development, knows what she's talking about

So, please, with sugar top, list specific animals. All of them. Even the worms. We can note those animals which we all "agree" should be animals and those that we're iffy on (insects, perhaps, or for example, the horsies in Fire). But just list them.

A complete, consolidated list of those we druids want to see tagged as animals will make quick work. And the fact that we spent the time combing through the mobs of Norrath to make a list will show that this is an important issue to us. =)

The cupcake :heart: you!

You play a mage and I'd imagine you're harboring a grudge that druids have situationally been able to charm a pet that is more powerful than yours. Okay. We get that. You're supposed to be the master of all pets, nobody should have a pet as great and wonderful as a mage's, yada yada.
I'm not here to find "scandalous quotes" to prove just how insane Druids are, I'm here because I enjoy reading all of the forums to get a broader scope of the EverQuest communities. I do feel that charm, even in Plane of Fire, is too overpowering. Anyway, your confrontational attitude makes me wonder, why are you so defensive and have these anti Mage sentiments?
But please stop trolling.If you have a suggestion for the list Chenier is creating, by all means post away. Otherwise, lurk quietly and wait for those scandalous quotes... you don't need to bait for them.


Consider me the anvil, without a opposite force the metal will simply swing with the hammer and can not be shaped.

How would you like it if I said- You play a Druid and I'd imagine you're harboring a grudge that Druids have situationally been able to charm a pet that is more powerful than any non charmed pet or player, allowing you to solo greatly, and you want more. Okay. We get that. You're supposed to be the master of soloing, nobody should have solo ability as great and wonderful as your's, yada yada.But please stop asking for insane upgrades...

Respect is a two way street. I came here without any ill will or pretense of "looking for a scandakous quote." However I am met with hostility by you in two threads because I disagree and am offering a counter viewpoint, and am of a different class, one the "DPS Druids" often clash with.

How would you like it if I said- You play a Druid and I'd imagine you're harboring a grudge that Druids have situationally been able to charm a pet that is more powerful than any non charmed pet or player, allowing you to solo greatly, and you want more. Okay. We get that. You're supposed to be the master of soloing, nobody should have solo ability as great and wonderful as your's, yada yada.But please stop asking for insane upgrades...

Insane? Not really insane to ask for mobs that should be tagged as animals to be correctly tagged. I'm sure you'd like it if more mobs were tagged correctly as elementals? Even after this, druids will still be no where near the charming abilities of Enchanters.

It was supposed to be over the top, just like his origional post. :D

Besides, I would like charm pretty much removed from the game, as even in the EPs the mobs hit too hard to be pets. I'd actually say BoT mobs are too powerfull. The devs have said that Mage charm/mezz was a mistake of a spell line, and I agree. There is too much class blurring already.

Respect is a two way street. I came here without any ill will or pretense of "looking for a scandakous quote." However I am met with hostility by you in two threads because I disagree and am offering a counter viewpoint, and am of a different class, one the "DPS Druids" often clash with.

Zarath, you will find that with a question to get clarification you will get more respect than to directly oppose discussion about something you know less about than the other poster. If I went to the mage boards (and yes I have had a mage alt since before Kunark) I would not feel confortable opposing something in a discussion with people that have played the class as a primar for over 5 years.

Just to clarify where I am coming from.... I have played a druid since release day. The manual clearly states that druids are "Masters of Nature" bending it to our will. That it gives us a unique control over insects and animals. The problem is as with all classes, what the manual says doesn't match reality 5 years later.

My posting what should be tagged animal comes from 5 yrs of seeing Animals only to be told by the game they are not animals. The whole game since kunark has been a quessing game. Necro's must go through the same thing with zombie looking characters or a skeleton being tagged as monster instead of undead.

The issue isn't only charming, in fact that is a separate issue. The tag goes back to other spells such as our fear and debuff also but to me it is just a matter of game mechanics. Verant made the promise in the original manual that animals would be less likely to attack druids... I spent over 30 levels without killing a single animal unless it attacked me first and even then I would try to fear them instead of killing them... The bears in Misty Thicket used to come help me with the bixies without me ever considering charming them. The fact that animals attacked druids when charm broke was a sore spot due to the desire not to kill animals. When I try to cast on a monkey, rat, etc and get that "this spell only works on animal" message it just goes to reinforce my feeling of betrayal by 969, Verant and SoE.

Your attempts to justify why animals should not be tagged as animal may be valid if that was an issue that could cause imbalance but all of your arguements are not valid. The creation of creatures on planes is bound by the same physics as on the rest of the planets. Just because another diety made them does not allow the physics to change. Just because you don't want druids to have the power promissed to them does not mean they cannot be tagged properly. As we have seen SoE can tag mobs immune to effects but they could still be properly tagged.

And Chanier, I appreciate that you work with programing.

I have been a programer since 1974 when I first learned Fortran. I currently develop programs for the federal government and recently did one for the government of the Bahamas. I can make a change in a single field out of hundreds of thousands of records in the time it take to query the record, type the change and save it... I realize EQ is a lot more complex but tables are tables and the structure hasn't changed that much in the past 30 years. It requires taking the check mark out of the "Monster" field and putting it in the "Animal" field.

I agree though, this coding is 5 yrs old and I cannot pass judgement on how complex the process is. It is probably past the point of even being worth doing. They have had 5 years and now are really backed up. My complaint is that when they placed the mob in the zone if they had taken the time to tag them properly it would have been a good thing. I do realize that the coders may not have known what the mobs look like but the people that placed them in the zone should have had a clue.

I appologise for making such derogatory comments but I have complained about this misscoding since I got high enough level to cast Animal Fear 5 years ago. I am a federal employee with 27 yrs seniority so I probably wouldn't get fired for a error but I know that government contract programers that do not perform quickly and accurately usually don't last past 6 months. I also know that when the bosses want a change in a program, It usually is done that same day unless code has to be rewritten in which case it is usually done in less than a month. Changing animal tags does not require rewriting code although they may want to rewrite some code to keep it from making druids more viable or creating an imbalance..

I am a tired old burnt out druid these days and I have some other projects I need to take care of but will try to take some time to make some lists for you. In reality though the list will be very long by the time you go through all of the zones.

Ok, here are the next two zones with their current tags since some are already tagged animal. Of course there will be some disagreement on the Boarbeast and buglike guys but the spiders and birds should be flagged.

Drunder, Fortress of Zek
Name Level Range Type
A Boar Beast 60 - 61 Monster
A Diaku Boar 56 - 56 Animal
A Fledgling War Boar 55 - 55 Animal
A Stampeding Boar 65 - 65 Monster
A Stampeding Piglet 63 - 63 Monster
A War Boar 64 - 64 Animal
A War Crow 62 - 62 Monster
A Young War Boar 46 - 46 Monster
An Enraged War Boar 63 - 63 Monster

Eryslai, the Kingdom of Wind
Name Level Range Type
A Crystalline Windwalker 65 - 65 Monster
A Deadly Cloudwalker 64 - 64 Monster
A Fearsome Stormrider 64 - 64 Monster
A Mischievous Stormrider 64 - 65 Monster
A Nilborien Noble 65 - 65 Monster
A Nilborien Scholar 65 - 65 Monster
A Nilborien Servant 65 - 65 Monster
A Phoenix Breezewing 65 - 65 Monster
A Phoenix Firesurger 65 - 65 Monster
A Phoenix Gustlet 55 - 55 Monster
A Phoenix Scorchlet 46 - 46 Monster
A Phoenix Searedwing 65 - 65 Monster
A Phoenix Windsurger 68 - 68 Monster
A Prismatic Spider 66 - 67 Monster
A Pristine Recluse 66 - 67 Monster
A Sporadic Stormrider 66 - 67 Monster
A Stormrider Lightningclaw 65 - 65 Monster
A Vengeful Spirit 46 - 46 Monster
A Vorladien Archwalker 68 - 68 Monster
A Vorladien Spawn 68 - 68 Monster
A Vorladien Webspinner 65 - 65 Monster
A Wind Phoenix 66 - 66 Monster
An Air Phoenix Noble 64 - 68 Monster
An Air Phoenix Scout 64 - 64 Monster
An Erratic Arachnid 55 - 55 Monster
Arch Mage Alchtonion 65 - 65 Monster
Ardent Phoenix of Xegony 67 - 67 Monster
Baltaldor the Cursed 67 - 67 Raid Encounter
Calebgrothiel 68 - 68 Monster
Gakamenial Fir`Disralsi 67 - 67 Monster
Huridaf Vorgaasna 65 - 65 Monster
Lossenmachar 68 - 68 Monster
Melernil Faal`Armanna 68 - 68 Raid Encounter
Muzlakh the Chosen 70 - 70 Monster
Pherlondien Clawpike 68 - 68 Monster
Queen Silandria 68 - 68 Raid Encounter
Rindaler Egulrtan 65 - 65 Monster
Servitor of Xegony 66 - 67 Monster
Sigismond Windwalker 67 - 67 Raid Encounter
Stormrider Priest of Destruction 67 - 67 Monster
Weruis Herfadban 65 - 65 Monster
Wesreh Galleantan 65 - 65 Monster

The spider is probably a mistake, can't think of any other spider/insect type mob that is charmable. <!-- / message -->Stonemites in god are mostly tagged as animals, in pofire all spiders are tagged as animals as well (including the DC pet), and in western wastes ice borrows (larva model) are tagged as animals.


Horses in pofire are tagged as undead (something that needs to be taken into consideration in some other places since that makes them necro territory) as far as I remember.

Don't think this stuff all has to relate to charming, ultimately this stuff should have been tagged properly when made... if they don't want it charmable it is possible to tag them as non charm. Otherwise I wouldn't mind being able to tash when solo or in a chanterless grp and it would allow soe to play up the animal only stuff.


and bleh =p .. had a generalized list but I wanted to double check it against the first page one and saw the Please reply with THE EXACT NAME of the mobs you think need fixed and ALL THE ZONES you can find them in. If you reply with something ambigous like "wolves in GoD", Imma delete your post. Be exact.
=(

I'll log on and try to get the exact names but think the turtles in ferubi, spiders and some crags in yxxta, and gnats larva turtles and stonesmites in the sewers are all not tagged if someoen else wants to double check as well and get the names.

In ldon frogs in tak, spiders rats and bats (rats and bats might be considered as undead or non animals though) in mm

In pop crows in torment, larva in hoh and pod, dogcats in hohb, and crows in tactics were not flagged I think.


Drakes should be considered as dragons and Ulthorks/bulwarks are too humanlike to be considered animal imo.

*edit* pop bees fall into the too humanlike category as well for me. Phoenix's are kinda up in the air though... pretty sure there is a precendant for tagging them as animals in poair.


Yxxta
a crag beetle
a dark cavern spider

To my knowledge all spiders in fire ARE flagged as animals and the birds in air are also, do not go by allakhazam's listing and take it as gospel. We're not trying to get alla to change his list, we are trying to get soe to change thier's.

One mob I know of that is not flagged as an animal that should are the spiders in Everfrost ldon, not sure on the names right now but I'll try to pay better attention next time. (You know the green con spiders that you would think would be there for DC, but you can't use due to them not being animals)

What about Ukun's? Bloodbeasts, etc.

The same mob, is used as a "pet" for the Mastruq Shaman mobs.
As well as summoned as a pet for 30 seconds by some mobs.

A flame Frog in SRT

A blood raven hatchling - PoTorment

A foul writher in MMC

PoE
--------------

All Korascian models - all frogs

Other PoE Frogs


PoW
----------------

Frogs, turtles, and sharks

Tak
-----------
ancient sand frogs

come accross this doing a search for something, did sony change any of this?

Are any of the druid charmable mobs casters? I mean, I don't think CS cobalt drakes should be charmable because they're wizards and I can't think of any druid charmable mobs that are casters....

Kedge Keep
all of these are dire charmable
A Soothebrine Seahorse ( cleric )
A Squallsurge Seahorse ( wizard )
A Spinereef Seahorse ( ranger )

Well, I don't mean to compare to other games, but WoW doesn't have an animal tag. Its a "beast" tag and Druids can affect the vast majority of beasts with spells specifically for them, insects, spiders and dragon kin (baby dragon type mobs) are included in this besides the average bear, lions, wolves, etc.

I think I just figured out what they will "fix" from this list! :p

Given their track record they probably "fix" the existence of the animal tag.


Eri

Zarath - The anti-Druid

It was supposed to be over the top, just like his origional post. :D


Besides, I would like charm pretty much removed from the game, as even in the EPs the mobs hit too hard to be pets. I'd actually say BoT mobs are too powerfull. The devs have said that Mage charm/mezz was a mistake of a spell line, and I agree. There is too much class blurring already.

Animal Charms are part of the Druid's game and always have been. There's no blurring there. I don't know what class you play Zarath, but it clearly isn't a Druid. Please don't pretend to be a Druid when you make comments out of your backside.:moon:


Maybe you also want our dots, dd's and heals to taken out of the game also. Really, our dots could be considered blurring with Necros, our heals blurring with Clerics and our dd's blurring with Mages. While you're at, why not just say you want Druids removed from the game, because well, they're just really a blurred class anyways.

Tag all animals as animals.


If you don't want charmable animals in a zone, then just don't put animals in the zone. That's pretty simple. But putting animals in a zone, then tagging as other than animal is nothing more than a Druid specific nerf. Clearly the original design of the zone had animals there.


Spiders are not animals. Neither are insects. Fish probably should be.

All cats, bears, wolves, walruses, birds, etc., etc., etc. are animals and by the original definition of a Druid should be charmable.

The named animals should have their charmable flagged set to 0 (false). I'd understand that.

I can't help wondering why DoN has so many animals. At what point in the creation of those zones did the animal tag get removed?