Ok I am prolly alone in feeling this but...

1) I never had a problem with my epic now its basically worthless imo besides the stats. I liked the fact it snared and dotted in one cast. Who gives a *&^ if it's resisted by mobs that can't be snared or rooted your not gonna be kiting them anyway. And if you can't get it to land Winged death is just as good. ie~Target: Damage over time (1287) ok so its not 2k but who cares.

2) I have never had issues on being able to heal or not. I am multi-talented and can do a bit of everything. I have kept 4 melee and chanter alive in Chef (seb) with Sup heal being my highest heal. I didn't want CH or a version of it, but now due to fact they are someday putting it in game i will be required to us it on guild raids so the clerics can play melee.

Do me a favor and stop helping me, I never thought we were broken, we didn't need help really we were fine the way we were. I enjoyed playing my druid the way she was and still do. Just do me one thing Don't sign me up for anymore nerfs without me knowing about them because i am happier playing than posting what isn't wrong with my class.

Fari Dawnstrider
57 druidess of Tunare

You must cast a whole lot more spells than I do.

If you don't have a slot to mem a 1.8 second casting 10 minute duration snare.

I know that there are some who actually like the snare effect. I don't. There has never been a time where the snare effect has not gotten in my way.

Buy a Woven Grass Earring, they are only like 300plat now if you don't have the spell slot.


Removal of the snare effect is the single most important UPGRADE to an epic. The only one that I have heard of actually.

Oh joy. Which earring I paid 12k for shall I stop wearing so that I can get an effect I already had?

Other spells have effects that can be resisted independantly, why not WoN?

I guess you are one of those without enough spell slots druids then.

Even if you *are* using all 8 slots...

nm


Guess I have just been playing wrong, and swapping out spells on the fly for the last 40 levels is something that other Druids don't do.

Some of us, I hope, have not organized our spellbooks based on color.

I don't care if every piece of gear I own has a right-click snare effect -- I will STILL keep Ensnare memorized 100% of the time because its casting speed is efficient no matter how cramped the quarters, its mana cost doesn't even SHOW a loss on my mana bar, and even if I'm butt nekked on a CR, 10 minutes is long enough to kill any mob I'd want to fight.

Clicky snares are fine when you're in a group and each mob is being taken down quickly. But when you want or need a FAST casting snare, and you don't want to worry about snare wearing off, mem and use Ensnare. I've watched too many druids take unnecessary beatings trying to snare/resnare with their epics or earrings or ES gaunts. Not taking damage in the first place is the benefit of using our 35 mana snare, so IMO it's essentially a very cheap preemptive heal.

~Firemynd

Aye,

Some fresh air.



I was just throwing out clickies to be sarcastic, of course.

I have had ensnare and root perma memmed from the very first days I have got them. The only times, EVER, that they have not been memmed was when I have died. And are amoung the first 3 spells memmed.

I don't trust any druid, who has not done the same.

to me ensnare is right up there with Heal and Root... it would be crazy to fight without them...

to you druids who switch spells out in the middle of fights; what are you needing to switch to and from? I've played several classes well in to their 50s and the only one I've ever found myself switching spells out with is a chanter... what is it that you guys are doing differently?

"to you druids who switch spells out in the middle of fights; what are you needing to switch to and from? I've played several classes well in to their 50s and the only one I've ever found myself switching spells out with is a chanter... what is it that you guys are doing differently?"

Standard Grouping setup
1-Nature's Touch
2-Nature's Recovery
3-Root
4-Chloroblast
5-Ensnare!! <---woowoo, always memmed!!
6-
7-
8-

If I've used Exodus, 8 is filled by succor. This leaves 2 slots, in some cases, for everything else I do besides heal snare and root. This includes:

Damage shield
Group Regrowth
Resist buffs
potg/potc
Winged Death
Fury of the Air
Call of Karana (& Glamour of Tunare)
Blizzard
Moonfire
Wildfire
Breath of Karana
Debuffs
AE root
See invisible
Foliage shield
Improved Superior Camo
SoW, Wolfform, SoE
Bladecoat, Mask

Sometimes I'll leave Nature's Touch out of the lineup for an extra slot, and Exodus has helped as well. Still, juggling damage dealing spells, buffs, and other spells requires many a trip to the spellbook mid-fight.

hehe...most exp grinds you aonly need one nuke(Wildfire or Moonfire)...of course keepign fury of air up some places is a must

THen you have an entire list of buffs with have durrations of over and hour. HEck if you want to dedicat a slot to a buff youll cast ever hour or LESS go for it.

Oh gee. You've all successfully made the argument that nobody needs the druid epic. Well duh!

I always have root and ensnare memmed, too. But my root-dotting soloing always started with an epic pull. It works well for me.

Verant took that away, and and now that may pulling spell and the next thing I cast (root) are both memed spells, I have to wait for my spell lineup to refresh after the pull. That, to me, is a loss. A minor one, sure, but it's a loss.

Pick up one of the many clickable snare items if it means that much to you and you are still better off.

Removing the snare portion was just lame , Stacking issues my arse. You all wanna suck up to VI for a bigger heal in trade for lowering the value of our epic....Fine.

Considering the heal never went in and wont IMO.

Cleric got their stuff, all druids got was screwed over.

IE. mobs still resist , we as players dont resist and our epic
just took a nose dive ...big dot whoopy dooo !

way to go guys

I was just saying that the snare portion has gotten in my way, for every use I use the epic for.

You use it differently.

You like to pull with a 9.5 second snare.

I like to pull with a 1.8 second snare.

Your snare lasts 3 minutes, mine lasts 10 minutes.

Having a level 1 spell effect on an epic weapon is an insult to the Nth degree.

Would be like getting Skin like Wood on your ToV BP.

Whoohoo!

The only way I will even think about agreeing with you, is: As you say they can separate out spells effects, if they added Ensnare to it, instead of Snare.

You would win that argument, you really would.

Actually, I like to pull with a 9 second refreshable snare/dot after which I can immediately cast root, in the event of tight spaces or resists. I have had this option for five months. Some druids have had it for considerably longer. Why was it taken away because some of us didn't use it that way? Was it unbalancing?

Tal, go back and read my first post in this thread. Which earring that cost me 12k should I replace to get something I already had? Or should I just dump the ol' Gloves of Earthcrafting (technically, I'm still using Elysian, damned priests were up constantly until I got Vindi's head)?

So, you expect me to be inconvienced by having a snare I can't cast on many of the mobs I fight so that you don't have open up a spell slot or do equipment swaps on the fly? If you don't like those two items, get a tanglewood shield. It casts ensnare and has pretty good stats. The fact is, you can still do what you were doing before with you epic if you can make a few adjustments and others of us can do more. It wasn't a nerf, it was an improvement.

I used the epic for 3 levels on raptors.

And you can not refresh it on charmed mobs.

But I consider a good Druid to be adaptable, so I got along alright.

As I suspect that you will be able to do, with this change.

It is a huge, huge benefit to me to not have to worry about timing my epic dot as carefully if soloing. I love using my always memmed ensnare for the mob.

My only issue (and it is minor) is that the epic actually had a bigger snare % on it than ensnare. Not a big difference, and usually not too noticeable, but things moved more slowly with the old epic snare than with ensnare (can't remember the %'s off the top of my head though).

Ensnare slows by 56% the old epic effect slowed them by 62% not much of a difference there.

I would have to agree with the orginal poster the snare on the epic was nice. I havnt ever had it resisted more then twice (less the breath of ro mind you). As it is in its current state it is less then what it was.

The snare was a bonus imo that this board got nerfed. If they change the length of the epic to be more in line with the shaman necro then its an improvement.

Right now its more useful for me to med for 9 seconds then to click my epic.

-MoonDancer

I don't trust any druid, who has not done the same.

I never have either memmed during a raid...that's why we have rangers =D


If I'm not on a raid? Oh yeah..perma memmed

Right now its more useful for me to med for 9 seconds then to click my epic.

Hmmm, so 30 mana (9 seconds of medding) is more useful you you than a free 1650 dot?

Problem: Epic with snare effect rendered the epic totally useless versus the every increasing number of "immune to changes in movement" mobs.
Reason: "Wrath of Nature" was a single spell with two effects - 1650 DoT over three minutes plus 62% movement reduction.

Solution(s):
1 - Remove "immune to speed changes" mobs completely. Do some actual creative thinking on how to negate snare instead of rendering entire spell lines worthless.
2 - Make "Wrath of Nature" a two part spell in a true sense. Make two separate checks - one for damage, one for movement. Allow either/or to land on a mob even if one is completely resisted.
3 - Remove the snare component completely. Upgrade the damage output per minute, or shorten the current three minute duration.
3a - Remove the snare component completely. Upgrade the effect to a focus or mana regen or (insert_some_buff_here).

Of the possible solutions, VI selected to do half of #3. Currently, when compared versus other epics, it is now rather sub-par. It's doing right around 550/min, and although that's not too bad for free damage, it's no longer definable as being epic caliber.

I don't think they're done with the changes on the epic though.

actually meding for 9 seconds is time better spent imo then casting this dot.

it only does 1650 damage if your fights are going at least 3 minutes. if they go a minute and a half you reduce that to 800 damage. Your better off meding for 12 seconds(3 longer IE 2 ticks) and casting any kind of Dd spell moonfire, wildfire etc.

-MoonDancer

it only does 1650 damage if your fights are going at least 3 minutes. if they go a minute and a half you reduce that to 800 damage. Your better off meding for 12 seconds(3 longer IE 2 ticks) and casting any kind of Dd spell moonfire, wildfire etc.

Hmmmm, so lets put it this way. If you had a 180 second dot that did 1650 damage with a 3 second cast time and a cost of 20 mana, you wouldn't concider it worth using? Even if it didn't take up a spell slot?

what? i am sorry i dont understand your argument a 1650 damage dot witha 3 second casting time is of course worth casting. a 1650 dot with a 9 second casting time that last 180 seconds is not.

if it lasted 90 seconds or even 120 seconds then its worth casting.

-MoonDancer

i also look at it this way you cast the dot 9 seconds, it doesnt do damage till 15 seconds. and then it only does 9.16 damage. even at 18 seconds of meding and then standing and casting wildfire 1024 damage your at 24 seconds 23.8 technically your at 42.66 dps while your dot has only done 18.32 dps.

-MoonDancer

what? i am sorry i dont understand your argument a 1650 damage dot witha 3 second casting time is of course worth casting. a 1650 dot with a 9 second casting time that last 180 seconds is not.

if it lasted 90 seconds or even 120 seconds then its worth casting.

Okay, here it is. You gain about 20 mana a tick extra by sitting down. The epic takes one and one half tick to cast for no mana. That would be equal to a three second cast time for 20 mana. Lets say the mob dies in one minute. Using the epic dot is like casting a 20 mana, 3 second cast time dot for 550 hp that doesn't take a spell slot.

Or, we could look at the mana efficiency of the epic dot. In 9 seconds you can med back about 30 mana. If the epic dot lasts for one minute, then you just cast a dot with a damage to mana ratio of 18.3. If it goes the full three minutes, you just hit a ratio of 55. Compare this to WD with it's damage to mana ratio of about 3.6. If the epic dot lasts for two ticks you have already matched the mana efficiency of WD. There is no way sitting for those extra nine seconds is better than casting the epic dot.

I am pretty sure your mana regen figures are off quite a bit. i will put it out this way.

I can med from 0mana to at least 150 mana in 3 ticks probably more but this is based on being able to cast our 190 root spell. and in 2 ticks i can have enough mana for 1 root. so 12 second med time, 1.75 second casting time. is 13.81 dps. still a more efficient way of doing damage then our epic.

-MoonDancer

From Graffe's message board in their Q&A section.

Q: What is the formula to calculate my mana regen from meditation?
A: At level 60 it has been calculated to add 18mana tick (skill 252). When medding this would give a total of 20 as standing mana regen is 1 per tick, sitting mana regen is 2 per tick.

pub23.ezboard.com/fgraffe...D=26.topic (http://pub23.ezboard.com/fgraffeswizardcompilationfrm28.showMessage?topicID =26.topic)

*shrug* the fact remains i can med from 0 mana to at least 75 mana in 12 seconds i have tested it on numerous occasions.

-MoonDancer

That is making the assumption that you actually spend a full 75 mana on the cast. You will save mana on each cast due to specializations. You will save more on root if you are spec alt. You will save even more if you have scm. You will save even more if you have an ODS other mana efficiency III item. You will have higher mana regen per tick if you have potg/c. You will have higher mana regen if you have mask of the stalker/hunter. You will have higher mana regen if you have any type of clarity. I only counted the sitting regen because that is the only difference if you are standing to cast the epic or sitting to med.

i think we are a little off the topic my point is currently in every situation the time it takes to cast the epic dot is better spent doing something else including meding. This needs to change.

-MoonDancer

OK, the Graffe's quote is wrong.

You med at 21/tick with max med skill, vs. only 1/tick standing

----

Moondancer, your miscalculation is this:

You state you med back 150 mana in 3 ticks. Fine. That's 50/tick. However, you don't lose 50/tick by standing. The ONLY form of mana regeneration that's gained by sitting is the "med" mana regeneration. ALL other forms (AA skill, FT items, chanter/druid/beastlord mana regen buffs, bard song, any others??) of mana regen work just as well whether you sit or stand. So the ONLY mana you lose when you stand is the extra 20/tick that the med skill gives you.

OK, now to the cast time. Epic takes 9 seconds to cast, so you will lose either 1 or 2 ticks of "med" mana regen. We'll average it out to 1.5 ticks, which is 30 mana lost by not sitting to med.

Next stop, mana efficiency: At best, casted druid spells give about a 5:1 dmg:mana ratio. (I'm not including quad/PBAoE spells here, just DoTs and DDs). That's with some nice AAs and focus items. So to equal this efficiency, our epic DoT needs to do approx. 150 damage (30 mana lost times the 5:1 ratio) to be "worth" casting. Less than that, and then yes, you're better off just medding.

For the finale: The epic does about 55/tick damage. So if it's on the mob for 3 ticks, that's 165 damage, or a 5.5 ratio compared to the mana we gave up by not medding.

So as you can see, unless the mob is going to die right away after you land the epic, it's usually worth using. Which just reinforces the old adage: "Free damage is free damage =)"

Tat

I think the change is BS

They removed a portion of our epic yet didnt lower the cast time, or add a focus effect or anything to off set that. Winged Death is a better spell than epic. Takes half the time to cast, does 400 less damage , but does it in 1/3 the time.

When Im playing my warrior, my SoD still procs on giants who are immune to stun, doing full damage, giving me a message " Your target is immune to the stun portion of this effect" ..... so why cant the epic just do that too?

I LIKE the snare. Its useful for kiting.

Ro's
Scoriae
Breath of Karana
Spirit of Eagle
Breath of Ro
Winged Death
Regrowth
Superior Healing

Thats my normal spell line up, and it works perfectly for the way I kite, and what I kite. I also dont like the fact that it was stealth changed. Im not sure if they announced it here or on another message board, but it wasnt in a patch message. Thats just lame.


Change it back , and just make the damage stick, and the snare not, on non root/snare mobs. Its not hard.

im just annoyed they changed it and didnt say anything, i used epic to pull and to time how long it took to kill a mob, if epic wore off in the fight i was too slow and changed my strategy, so i log in buffed up allready from loging out buffed and hit epic to get one angy guy chasing me, cought me totally off guard and as per murphys law it was a resistant one and broke root soon as it landed if it landed at all, all in all one not happy bunny.

If I've used Exodus, 8 is filled by succor. This leaves 2 slots, in some cases, for everything else I do besides heal snare and root. This includes:

Damage shield
Group Regrowth
Resist buffs
potg/potc
Winged Death
Fury of the Air
Call of Karana (& Glamour of Tunare)
Blizzard
Moonfire
Wildfire
Breath of Karana
Debuffs
AE root
See invisible
Foliage shield
Improved Superior Camo
SoW, Wolfform, SoE
Bladecoat, Mask

Sometimes I'll leave Nature's Touch out of the lineup for an extra slot, and Exodus has helped as well. Still, juggling damage dealing spells, buffs, and other spells requires many a trip to the spellbook mid-fight.

I don't buy it. Most of what you listed aren't used grouping. Others are spells that last 2 hours or more and you don't keep memmed. When I am the primary healer in a group which includes a caster I first potg and cos, then get rid of those. Then I keep the following memmed.

1) Chloroblast, 2) Nature's Touch, 3) Nature's Recovery, 4) Thorns, 5) Nuke, 6) Succor, 7) Root, :cool: Snare

When Regrowth of the Grove wears off I take off thorns real quick and do that. When there are no other casters I don't keep chloroblast memmed and get to keep regrowth of the grove memmed.

When Im soloing in an animal zone (Maiden's Eye, Siren's Grotto, Western Wastes)

1) Chloroblast, 2) Improved Superior Camoflauge, 3) Nuke, 4) Savage Spirit, 5) Call of Karana, 6) Egress, 7) Root, :cool: Snare

When I first started exploring the ways of charming I used glamour, but after testing I haven't noticed any difference whatsoever, so I leave it out.

------------------

So on the other subject, I'm glad the epic no longer snares, because now the longer lasting, fast castign snare goes on the mob, then I can cast epic and it's now rarely resisted. I used to have to chain cast the 9 second spell until it stuck

Hmm, I was responding to Kiluv who asked what spells druids swapped mid-fight.

In many groups, pulls are constant. Buffs fade or get dispelled and need to be refreshed. Sometimes we'll need a stun, other times rains are better. Still other times, something like Winged Death or Moonfire will get the job done. I swap spells quite a bit. Regardless, and we agree here - Ensnare is always memmed.

So, you expect me to be inconvienced by having a snare I can't cast on many of the mobs I fight so that you don't have open up a spell slot or do equipment swaps on the fly?Um, hello?

The effect was there when you got your epic, it was there when I got mine. I'm the one inconvenienced by the change, not you.

I'm trying to point out that this isn't a universally desirable change, and it inconveniences people who got and used the epic with a certain effect it now lacks. All people can come back with is "Well, I like it." or "Some druid you are, unable to handle your nerfs like a man."

This wasn't a nerf, a vast majority of druids wanted the snare effect removed. What you are saying is the vast majority should be denied because you don't want to mem a spell. The way the epic was before, there was NO way I could use it on snare immune mobs. There was NO way I could make it use it on the same mobs that a necro used their epic on. As it is now, you can still slow the run speed of mobs and do it with fewer resists. You can do it with a spell slot or you can do it with an item, the choice is yours. With the snare effect on the epic, I had no choice on mobs that were immune to snare. Whining because you are slightly inconvienced so that many others could actually make better use of their epic is just so self centered. Grow up.

Talyena, you argue for the tyranny of the majority. If you cannot see the folly in that, nothing I can say will convince you otherwise.

Then they came for me...

you say the majority of druids but its the majority of druids here that wanted the change. Not the majority of druids across the servers. I highly doubt even 20% of all druids across all servers even post/read this board.

So saying the majority wanted it is stupid. perhaps you should grow up and realize that there are people that play and think differently then you do.

-MoonDancer

A majority of druids I have talked to in game like the change too. The facts can't be argued though. You can still do all the things you did with your epic before and even more now. The epic is now more versatile than it was before. And MOST druids don't see that as a nerf.

umm your wrong i cant snare with my epic anymore which makes it less versitile to me and many other druids.

a 3 minute dot is useless to me when most mobs i solo die in half that time.

You argue the point that its no mana. so what doesnt make it good. If they cut the duration by a third then it worth the time.

-MoonDancer

When looking at manaless DoTs...there is no purpose in viewing them the same way you view a casted DoT. It doesn't matter if the full duration runs on your bracer or epic. It cost you no mana, so there is no efficiency quotient.

The only factor which holds concern is its damage per tick.

I frequently will refresh my manaless DoTs long before they run out so that I get a constant 100 points per tick or whatever it is from the two, with no ticks passing without damage.

Talyena, you argue for the tyranny of the majority. If you cannot see the folly in that, nothing I can say will convince you otherwise.

Then they came for me...

Getting a little melodramatic, don't you think?

I like this change.


Woot. First post and it has to be on the rants board.

The great majority of epic druids that I personally know are more than glad to have the snare componet removed.

Hrm, maybe it is just my server that has this preference then.

<shrugs>

Lushe

as far as all druids are concerned i think the majority doesnt care because the majority dont have epics.

-MoonDancer

umm your wrong i cant snare with my epic anymore which makes it less versitile to me and many other druids.

You made it high enough to get your epic without buying the snare and ensnare spells? You can manage to pick up an epic but not one of the many items with snare on them? You can still snare and the dot now lands on mobs it wouldn't land on before.

a 3 minute dot is useless to me when most mobs i solo die in half that time.

We have already established that at the most, this dot costs 30 mana (assuming you would be sitting for those nine seconds). Are you telling me you find a 90 second 800hp dot for 30 mana to be a waste?

no you have established that. Secondly snare costs mana yes i know its minimul but its still mana. so say i use ensnare thats 35 mana i had to use. now i am less efficant then when i had snare on my epic.

It now lands on mobs that are immune to snare thats decent accept why cripple myself by soloing mobs that are immune to snare/root.

your saying its 30 mana 9 seconds to cast an 800 damage dot. i say in the same amount of time i can cast something that is better then that.

When i solo i solo very fast as fast as i can i dont have time to wait for this slow moving dot to take effect.

There are a few places i would use it but they are very few.

I play the game at a fast pace i dont quad anymore because its to easy and slow. The last time i quaded was 10 + mobs in skyfire now there is a bit of a challenge. root doting i only do when i am reading a book even 4+ mobs is trivial.

Recently i have solo AEd the iskar jails thats 11 mobs roughly that to me is exciting and pushing the class what did i pull with epic because its the best way to start a fight when it isnt aggro now its not because i have to cast snare after so why not just start with snare.

-MoonDancer

Umm... I think any druid high enough to have the epic can wipe their @#%$ with ensnare's 35 mana. I can cast that spell repeatedly for 10 minutes and never lose mana.

I recently quadded Tunare, CT, Inny, and Bristlebane. I play a fast paced game. If I'm not perma-killing every God in the game single-handedly I'm bored. I'll be damned if Verant should listen to what the vast majority of the player base wanted and removed the snare.

I recently quadded Tunare, CT, Inny, and Bristlebane. I play a fast paced game. If I'm not perma-killing every God in the game single-handedly I'm bored. I'll be damned if Verant should listen to what the vast majority of the player base wanted and removed the snare.

That has to be one of the funniest things I have read in a while. :)

When you resort to insults and such. Well thats when you have lost the argument.

-MoonDancer

Moondancer,


Please note, the "epic" before druid in my previous post.

Thanks and please come again.

Lushe

you are correct i missed that in your post. But it doesnt make my post any less valid.

-MoonDancer

Aye,


Less than zero is still less than zero.





But I as pro-anti-snare pre-epic.

You miss my point entirely. A change this forum brought about in some peoples eyes is a good thing. In others its a very bad thing. Just because i have a different opinion then you doesnt make me wrong.

I think very much your epic is now more useful to you. But for me it is less useful.

-MoonDancer

Epic utility is however aimed at the end game.

Even though they are attained before the end game, their functionality is defined along end game lines.

Therefore, it has to be balanced against end game concerns, something to which I would have to agree. It is your EPIC weapon, so it should be of epic use.

With mudflation, this has become less true over time, and we can only hope that all the epics are reviewed, or alternative epics are introduced in PoP.

One concern I share with druids is that the druid epic is laughable. A 3 minute dot for that piddly amount of damage does not strike me as a proper epic in a game that has progressed so far.

Other classes share these concerns, I mean, look at the poor warriors. Their epics are not only total cheese, but they have to endure the Plane of Infinte-boredom-Air to get it. At least druid epic is easy to complete.

Lushe

I have to agree again with many of your points atm quite a few epics are not of raid worthy calibur. we can look at the ones i see members of my guild still using. Ranger epics well one for the haste. Rogue epics for the same reason. Cleric epics are by far the most useful epic.

wizards most wizards still use there epic for lack of anything better and the effect is nice.

Most mage epics are used but not for the effect because in many high end raids pets still cause a lot of problems.

Necro epics are used for lack of anything better statwise.

Enchanter epics free haste gets a raid back into tip top shape though many melee prefer vog.

warrior epics banked one of the harder epics banked.

Bard epics used for the effect as its a nice attack bonus.

Druid epics used in soloing almost exlusively.

Paladin epics Banked.

Shadowknight epics Banked.

Shaman epics dont know a lot about it but most shamans we have use them primarly for soloing and switch in and out for the dot.

Monk epics used simply because they are some of the best gloves around.

Beastmaster as we only have one and he uses his i assume they are at least decent:P

At this point though i agree that the risk getting the epic is probably proportional the item itself. In the druid epic

-MoonDancer

As underpowered as the warrior epic is, the red blade is often used at least in the off hand for main tank warriors until an enraging blow weapon (or a few other high taunt weapons mostly from Ssra high end mobs) is within reach. The reason is the effect on the red blade is a 500pt taunt with a 100pt dd, and with warrior taunt being broken it is about the only way for a warrior to keep aggro over other melee who are outdamaging them.

Bards use their epic for sheer functionality.

Verant really should institute some high end bard weapons with the same song bonus effect, or revamp both the bard epic quest and reward.

But bards get screwed over time and again, another assessment I doubt many would try argue.

Lushe

But bards get screwed over time and again

If they wouldn't prance around singing "I'm a little teapot" in EFP...they wouldn't get screwed so often I bet.

Getting a little melodramatic, don't you think?I get to be preachy and melodramatic on the Rants board. Neener, neener, neener. :p