Just in case no one's posted it yet:
http://www.gucomics.com/#07262004

Woody of GuComics had a chat interview with Brenlo of SOE about solo and content for "casual players".

It will not be all new dungeons and such. Just thinks like, bring me 5 bear skins and a shrubbery. Although depending on your level they may leave out the shrubbery. =P

Aren't there already enough of those type quests (I mean... tasks) in the game? I hope he's kidding :)

Not being able to solo in LDoN was the deciding factor for me when I retired for good last year. EQ is a group/guild oriented game, but they need to realize that there is a big base of people who solo.

They still don't get it.....*shakes head*

its too late. they aren't even ABLE to get it.

The downsides right now, are that this is currently only being implemented for characters up to level 50.

How stupid can Sony get?

You know when I used to play my alts that were under 50 I didn't have any problems with finding enough content, that wasn't already in use, to keep me busy and give me some stress relief from the higher level game. I think they are missing the boat completely on this one.

I'm happy for the younger players and for the older ones with young alts, this will be a nice addition for them. But this doesn't address a large portion of players who have been asking for meaningful solo content.

If they could have made the LDoN's solo/duoable at least you could, with enough time spent, advance your character with nice equipment. I hope that the tasks will provide nice upgrades for people if this is their answer to the problem.

I think though that by the time they get around to the higher level player who just doesn't have much time to spend in game that many, many of us will have already left.

Enough with the Sony bashing, please. Start a thead in Unkempt if you wanna go there.

Well, the reasons for making it levels 1-50 and making you buy OoW for it are obvious... there simply is nothing else in OoW for that level range.

It is pretty silly though... there's *tons* of unused content for the sub-50 crowd. I guess making these solo tasks helps for the small trickle of true newbies that cant find a group because they are spread out all over norrath's half-acre. Too bad the 50+ game is still so incredibly solo UN-friendly.

I don't think you'll see any solo content for quite some time. EQ has migrated into a game that requires large quanitity of people to do anything. The Flag system in PoP is a perfect example that they had no plans on giving 1 person any ability to excell ("In PoP, you can do alternat quests to excell!"--Nobody cared to mention that them quests don't mean jack when you want some real flags later on).

EQ has always been a group oriented game. Verant as well as SOE has always stated this. SOE is just taking it to the next step in quite simply requiring groups for just about all classes. EQ2 is going to be very much the same. They claim you can do things solo, but I would bet you it will be exactly like their promise in PoP where sure you can get the stuff solo, but if you want the "real" items, you gotta be in a group/raid to obtain it.

CoH was a step in the right direction in getting more power to the individual player, but it lacked any real raid content. WoW is suppose to be the best mix in that. Quests to do while solo, or places to hunt, as well as large scale raid content. Who really knows what's going on with EQ2, they keep everything so underwraps. It's like they fear loosing some "trade secret" or something. The only thing they'll loose is the player feedback--one of the most important things for a new game (especially for SOE who has one of the worse track records in good games).

The only thing they'll loose is the player feedback--one of the most important things for a new game (especially for SOE who has one of the worse track records in good games).

Not sure it's appropriate to describe SOE's track record so negatively; considering subscriber rates of EQ (and SWG, at least for the first year), and considering that EQ has maintained its high rate for a remarkable length of time.

As for EQ2 being so "underwraps" I think releasing information slowly and cautiously is a wise move. With a couple of serious contenders already having games moving through beta for this market, SOE is able to use other compnay's feedback forums to get a feel for current trends. Some of their design decisions will be made strictly based upon how popular (or unpopular) a similar feature was received in one of those other games.

Having said that, after reading Brenlo's comments about Solo Tasks, I'll agree with Scrirocco -- SOE still doesn't get it.

We do NOT need more "timed" content that players cannot leave without penalty (i.e. wasting the time they already invested in completing a task). Guilds do NOT need the negativity that results when players are forced to abandon a quest to help with an impromptu raid.

Giving players something to fill an hour with is fine... but I believe the average 'casual' player is more likely to have 2 hours of 'interupted' play than 1 hour of 'uninterupted' play.

~Firemynd

While I would like to see solo LDON, I do think this task system might work. I'm just curious to see how they are going to implement the task system for the 50+ crowd and how good the reward can by vs the higher raiding armor.
That said let it be known that I think most of you are wrong, I believe SOE is making "SLOW" and I emphasize very SLOW progress in fixing the game. Look what they have done in the last couple of months. Look at the Summit, the patches, all these open lines they have opened with woody and other class leaders.
They are starting to listen and are trying to please everyone. but just like in real life. YOU CANT PLEASE EVERYONE AND WHINERS WILL ALWAYS BE WHINERS!!! you can take that one to the bank.
Chubbbs
:axe:

Meh. SoE won't ever fix EQ without a complete and total revamp... I can only hope the team working on EQ2 has their heads out of their asses and are taking note of CoH, WoW, and the dissatisfied grumblings of former EQ players about the "fixes" and the stupid summit.

*shakes head*

Hi Aly how are u doing?/wave :box:

YOU CANT PLEASE EVERYONE AND WHINERS WILL ALWAYS BE WHINERS!!! you can take that one to the bank.

On the other hand there will always be people who defend SOE no matter what they do. CHEER THEM EVEN WHEN THEY ARE MAKING OBVIOUS MISTAKES!!! You can take that one to the bank.

I'll wait and see what is actually released, although the current plans targeting levels 1-50 is disturbing. I've soloed my way to 64, and expect to hit 65 in the next week or two. There are a couple more equipment upgrades I'm looking for, but really, I'm starting to run out of gear upgrades that can be bought/soloed.

Timers are fine with me personally. When I play, I generally have a pretty good idea of how long I'll be on and what the chances are of my being interrupted. I realize that not everyone has this luxury, so I hope they don't time everything.

Vestix
64 druid of Tunare

Well the task system has potential, but it seems that SOE-EQ just doesn't have enough creative power to fill a thimble.

First, lets take TRADESKILLS... They are a perfect example for solo tasks for people level 50+

NPC_00 needs a special item created. I see that you A_Player_00 has excellent skills in Tailoring. Please take this NO_DROP_ITEM_00 and combine it with XX, YY, and ZZ and return it to me when you are done.

Now maybe XX is an expensive component. YY is a NO DROP item. ZZ requires you do do some sub-combines. If you fail the combine you will still get back the NO_DROP_ITEM_00 so you can try again.

If you want you could even make it a "tier" system where you bring the NPC the first item and then he gives you additional no drop items to combine.. In the end after maybe 3-4 combinations (1-2 hours work), you would have a LORE item (not no drop) that you could either turn-in to the NPC for a AA point worth of XP(only the player that did the task can turn-in for xp), or the item would be decent enough to use or sell to other players.

That is just one template they could follow.

On the other hand there will always be people who defend SOE no matter what they do. CHEER THEM EVEN WHEN THEY ARE MAKING OBVIOUS MISTAKES!!! You can take that one to the bank.

I do see there falters, I personally have been disgusted in some of things they have done especially to the druid class, but they are atleast making an effort to change. We have seen some postitive changes in the last couple of weeks and we know of some postive changes to come. I've argued this point to death in the past. There are many shrewd people out there who regardles of what good changes they see will always whine and complain. As they have every right to complain, i have every right to show them up and defend what I beleive in.

When I see something I dont like, I will stand up and say it, but I also will stand up and applaud SOE when I feel they are listening to me and making positive changes.
CHubbs

If you want you could even make it a "tier" system where you bring the NPC the first item and then he gives you additional no drop items to combine.. In the end after maybe 3-4 combinations (1-2 hours work), you would have a LORE item (not no drop) that you could either turn-in to the NPC for a AA point worth of XP(only the player that did the task can turn-in for xp), or the item would be decent enough to use or sell to other players.

That is just one template they could follow.

I kinda Like this adds some flavor to the content hopefully someone add SOE will read this or someone can forward this to them.
Chubbs

So... the task systems is like the old "Quest" system but with no reward other than exp??? That is what it sounds like.

Historically, any quest that gave a reward worth having was nerfed and any quest that gave viable exp was killed. Look at theirs stance, if it gives exp and people are doing it repeatedly then it is an exploit. Examples are Tumpy's Tonics and many other quests that become nerfed. And we all know that Druid specific quests are forbidden to be viable if they do exist. (quick poll: how many have completed the Surefall Tunic/orb, or RM Druid quests or any of the non SoV Druid armor quests).

If a Task System is their new and improved solo system I am willing to presume that it will be crappy as they have made all of the old quests AND it will give crappier exp than farming light blues or raiding with an group. Basicly, all I have seen out of SoE for the past couple of years is a catering to the Uberkinder and forcing people to qualify and join the prime guild on a server to see any worth while new content.

Think back to the last "Really Fun and Interesting" thing you did in EQ and how many people it took to do it. If it didn't involve a Time flagged guild, don't let SoE know or they will nerf it.

The LoY Druid spell quest were quite nice exp. Unfortunately they can only be done once. I found those quest to be quite fun. I have helped many people do the pure blood quest as a result of all the time I spent in Crypt of Nadox.

Doing the combine for elemental armour used to be nice xp too before they nerfed it 8P

Best quest I ever did: Qeynos Badge of Honor (all but the last badge in Jaggedpine... which sucked.) for my monk. Did most of it solo, couple parts had a couple friends help. It was really fun, different (cmon, a rat puzzle, how cool is that!) and resulted in a great item. Then they tacked on the last badge to coincide with Laggedpine and typically ruined the feel of the quest by making it a tradeskill and faction time sink...

If the tasks were like that quest (badges 1-4) then great! But that seems to be the exception rather than the rule, and it's not reasonable to expect anything remotely so interesting.

I do see there falters, I personally have been disgusted in some of things they have done especially to the druid class, but they are atleast making an effort to change. We have seen some postitive changes in the last couple of weeks and we know of some postive changes to come.

Are they changing? Really?

Over the last 2 months we've seen what? A few minor changes. Most changes are things that the EQ community has been hounding them over for years. The only good thing for druids was the change to SotW and that was a year and a half coming. Thats not positive change, thats acknowledging that they screwed up.

This isnt to say there hasnt been nice stuff. Adding the mana numbers and timers left on buffs are nice changes. But again, we've been asking for that forever. Changes to Time? Yeah, that'll help 90% of the server. No offense, I'm sure it was really needed, but it still doesnt do anything for most of us. Same with the VP changes.

All I see is SoE attempting to lull us by tossing a few bones to us. They've got us so conditioned to accept crap that we're elated when they toss us a bone instead of being incensed that we're being treated like this.

The one major thing that was brought up that would help the majority of the server was soloable or duoable LDoN content. Now we dont get that and have to purchase an expansion to get the Task System? That's only up to level 50? And OoW is supposed to be a high level expansion with the level cap lifted to 70? Yes, I'm going to buy an expansion so I can give my twinks some solo time that they dont need. Oh wait...I would if I had any twinks under 50 still...

This isnt a question of always whining no matter what. Its to point out that SoE is still up to their old bait and switch habits. The flavor might have changed a little, but the meal is still the same thing.

Wow "talk about seeing the cup half empty, so sad, so sad". Its pretty obvious there is nothing SOE can do to make you change your view, even if they do, the whiners will always find something to whine about.
Chubbs

Actually, there are a few things that could have been done to keep the casual players.

I viewed more solo content as listed in the guild summit report as something that would be good for the time limited people. Too bad it got axed.

Reduce locked requirements of old expansions (PoP flags, VT key) could also go a long way to recover casual player confidence too.

A 3rd thing that could be done is a promise to slowly reduce the gear quality gap between raiders and non-raiders (eg, introducing better LDoN vendor items, improving single group content rewards in GoD to near-elemental level rather than Ssra/VT level).

Any one of these could have restored much more confidence in casual players than micro-changes like mana numbers, buff timers (more thanks to WoW) and sotw timer (after 1+ years of evading this topic I might add). Sorry, not enough for me to return to EQ.

/off-topic on

The feelings of anticipation, fear, overwhelming joy, satisfaction that I used to have playing EQ years ago have been replaced by boredom, disappointment and numbness ever since late-Luclin/PoP.

Don't get me wrong, there were glimmers of hope post-PoP. The PoT9 poem/quest really brought back the old days of exploration for a while (especially since I helped Denmum figure out the Lotus Pie recipe :P). The Manaetic Behemoth encounter really made me look forward to raiding in PoP because I thought it was a very creative and brand new style of raiding, too bad the creativity wasn't followed through for the rest of PoP and beyond. Hmm.. maybe thats the problem with EQ these days. Too much repeatitive content and too little creativity in desigining content.

/off-topic off

I wish I could design encounters for EQ or even better, EQ2. I've got 13 years as a DM for D&D. I think that counts for something when it comes to designing encounters. EQ is too limited though. You can't have true 3-Dimensional combat with flying creatures and such. Maybe EQ2 will have true z-axis capabilites. I liked the Manaetic Behemoth event as well, but one thing that could spice it up even more would be to lower the spider's hit points and increase the number of them and the speed at which they appear.

CoH has spoiled me with rich, adrenaline filled, exciting gameplay. I want tons of mobs, tons of spells going off, with a whirlwind of sword and axe flying. Bone crunching hits that send foes flying ten feet away or smashing them into a wall. Or sudden ambushes from the sky as flying creatures drop in uninvited and then the Big Bad Boss steps in, ground rumbling and shaking, scattering the adventurers with a huge sweeping attack.

I don't want to see the boss mob pinned in a corner with everyone lined up behind its back standing in one spot. That's boring, cheap tactics, and just plain stupid game design.

As I said before, to fix EQ completely and make it fun again for everyone would require a revamp of pretty much the entire gameplay rules, encounter design, and class balance. I just hope they get it right in EQ2 and don't follow the mobflation/powergamer idiot route.

I don't want to see the boss mob pinned in a corner with everyone lined up behind its back standing in one spot. That's boring, cheap tactics, and just plain stupid game design.


Or worse yet, half the people on the raid have to stare at the floor or a wall lest they go linkdead from all the lag. The few raids I got to participate in during my EQ life were mainly like you said - pin the beast in a corner, chainheal the main tank, make sure you don't take agro from him, and then everyone stare at the floor, watch the health bars to see if you win or lose.

Constant comparing of EQ to the flavor of the week, in this case CoH, is a tad silly IMO. They are 2 completly different games. Furthermore, come back and post your opions once you've played CoH for 5 years. We'll see how perfect the game is then, if it even makes it that long. Compare CoH to where EQ was within it's first 6 months and they are very similar in terms of fan devotion and overall available content. I predict that 3 years from now, CoH will have lvl 100, 3+ expansions, and everything "end game" will be Hamidon style encounters. At that point, people will complian about how CoH has strown so far from what made it great, and they will constantley be comparing it to the newest flavor of the week.

It's a vicious cycle that really accomplishes nothing.

I actually agree with you 100%. Games change and evolve like everything else in this wolrd, things can never be what they once were(damn I wish I weighed what I did in college, LOL). This being said, we need to look at EQ with different Eyes, its a new game, its not the EQ of old, but its still a great game, that I can enjoy almost every day when I Play and when i feel Im not enjoying it,i take a week or two break. SOE has done many many many bad things for the game I will agree on that, but they seem to be changign there plan of action. I dont think they have done this change cause they care, they have done it cause they realized where the game was headed and trying to turn this thing around. OPTIMISM PEOPLE, OPTIMISM

LDoN style "collect" missions could be continuable if the items weren't NO RENT in the task system. Start a task (ie: collect 25 x pieces), only get half done, come back later and get the same task and get it done in half the time.

Constant comparing of EQ to the flavor of the week, in this case CoH, is a tad silly IMO. They are 2 completly different games. Furthermore, come back and post your opions once you've played CoH for 5 years. We'll see how perfect the game is then, if it even makes it that long. Compare CoH to where EQ was within it's first 6 months and they are very similar in terms of fan devotion and overall available content. I predict that 3 years from now, CoH will have lvl 100, 3+ expansions, and everything "end game" will be Hamidon style encounters. At that point, people will complian about how CoH has strown so far from what made it great, and they will constantley be comparing it to the newest flavor of the week.

It's a vicious cycle that really accomplishes nothing.

Well, a couple of things CoH is doing right...

1) when you get a Mission you can do it solo or with a group since it is instanced to match both the Level AND Number of your party.

2) CoH Expansions are FREE.

3) CoH listens to players and created individual zones to match the players as they maxed out content without messing with what worked.

4) CoH ADMITS when something is broken and fixes it.

5) CoH is intertaining no matter what level you are since you can Sidekick and the zones are level rated. Higher zones can only be intered into once you reach the minimum level.

6) CoH has instanced Raids called "Task Forces" which take a raid level group through multiple "Quests" and Zones then rewards you with bonus exp and a nice augment that you specifially can use. ie: a Magic Scrapper gets a Magic Augment, not a tech/science/natural etc augment. And believe me, doing Babbage with 4 people gets your blood running.

7) There are only two factions and the do matter. Next year CoH is planning to add Villians as a playable class so it will be PvP and Carebear BOTH.

When I started playing EQ when it came out, it was a much different and more fun game then now. You could solo ALL of the quests, they gave usable items and exp and you could play any way you wanted. I don't remember ever having to summon 50+ players to get a key into befallen or having to kill a quest mob to open a door. The only 50+ player mobs were the dragons and that was done for loot and excitement.. not to progress.

They could always revitalize a lot of the old content by renewing some of the quests. Take the now useless item you get from the old quest, turn it in and get a quest equivalent to your level that gives Higher than normal Exp and upgrades your item to something equivalent to current content. Think of all they money they could save by not having to release a new expansion.. (I know, just being silly since they make money on new expansions). I don't know of any of the old world (original game) items that can't be upgraded by 1k plat spent in the bazaar.

I simply cannot argue against the Godly perfection that is CoH, or at least, with anyone who actually believes that. I stand by the fact that it accomplishes nothing when comparing the 2, especially in a derogatory way.

Exactly! We should all ignore the fact that CoH exists. We should ignore the many innovative features that CoH has introduced because it is too new. To actually analyse these features see wich ones would work to improve EQ would be silly. To even pay attention to such a short lived game would be foolish. We all know that the people who have left EQ for CoH are going to come back as soon as we release OoW because of Sony's amazing 5 year track record. In fact we shouldn't pay attention to any of the new games being released because how could games that have not even existed as long as EQ offer any competition?

EQ is an old horse that just needs to die Fairweather. Plain and simple. It's become a bloated, stinking corpse. CoH is an awesome game, but not even close to perfect. It has it's faults, but the devs are listening and work to correct these faults. The point is, CoH is just fun to play, regardless of those faults.

The gameplay of CoH is miles above EQ... at any point in EQ's history. I can't stand single pull, camp in the same spot groups. I wouldn't be able to deal with it if I came back to EQ. The controlled chaos of CoH grouping is just so much fun. You're never just sitting around waiting for your endurance to regenerate unless you've really been challenged by a large group of vicious villains.

Even if you do have to rest for a moment, it takes only a minute to be back at full health, full endurance. It's great. Contsant fun. Lots of action all the time. Cryptic did a damn good job with a pretty much flawless launch and a flawless expansion a couple months later. Cryptic has raised the bar on MMOG's so much, it's ridiculous. EQ2 devs had better take notice of CoH and work to create a similar enviroment and success with the opening day release and later patches 'n expansions.

I predict that 3 years from now, CoH will have lvl 100, 3+ expansions, and everything "end game" will be Hamidon style encounters.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Everything end game will never be Hamidon style encounters. The devs would have to be as braindead as the EQ devs have been to force everyone into 150+ hero battles against a villain that can one shot anyone but scrappers and tankers. CoH isn't being made for the uber goober powergaming maniacs that infest EQ. It's being made for the people that want to play a comic book hero. Cryptic has had the business savvy to understand people have limited amounts of time to play games these days and designed their game from the ground up with that in mind.

The Task Forces are great. Can't play six hours in a row? Big deal. You can just pick up the next day or even next week, where you left off. So far, nearly every thing about CoH has just been done right. The first time. Finally, the graphics engine is just pure bliss. Very customizable and Cryptic continues to add in more options for the gamers. Caps, special effects, cloaks, ribbons, the ability to change the appearance of your weapon, the ability to change the color of your power effects and more. In free issues (Cryptic uses the word "Issue" for their expansion/updates to keep the comic book feel).

The devs are also keep the storyline of the game very much in mind when creating new content. The moratorium for capes was a great way to introduce capes into the game world and give an in-game reason why they were gone and why you have to earn the right to wear a cape. They publish a newspaper on their website called the Paragon Times and it details new issue stuff like the new zone called the Hollows. It's got an amazing backstory to it that really stes the atmosphere before you even get into the game.

I know this all sounds fangirlish, but it's just the truth that anyone can see just by playing the game for a few weeks and reading the CoH website. As usual though, the coh forums, like any other game out there, are filled with tons of whiny crybabies that aren't ever happy with anything they get. One of the first posts after a screenshot of the new capes was posted was rather derogatory, calling the cap a "towel with paint on it". You just can't please those people and you shouldn't try.

They represent the people like Furor that all they did was bitch and whine about the game, but the kept right on playing it day in, day out.

/offtopic

Anyway... like I said. EQ is a bloated, dying horse. Or a dead horse that just doesn't have sense enough to lie down and stop moving. Without a complete revamp of all the past content and a new design method for new content, EQ will continue to just inflate the numbers more and more and more. Not even solo LDoN would bring me back. As a rogue I'd get maybe ten mobs dead in the time allotted and prolly need six or seven rezzes before I was done.

Maybe my shadowknight on FV or the druid could solo LDoN's. Maybe even my cleric in Mistmoore. But my main, the rogue, would never be able to and SoE will never design quests just around the actual rogue skills my class had. Nope. Everything is designed around massive numbers of people massive amounts of damage til whatever is there, dies.

Reduce locked requirements of old expansions (PoP flags, VT key) could also go a long way to recover casual player confidence too.

Please! At least on the PoP zones. Leave Time locked. Leave VT locked. That's the way it used to be, with one, maybe two zones locked. THE HIGHEST zone in the expansion. Not 90% of the expansion. It irks me to no end that I am a 1750 tradeskiller and cannot do the Aid Grimel quest bacause I don't have all the zone flags. That's just plain annoying.

There are the elements of a good thread here. Let's not turn this into another Unkempt thread on whether EQ has a future, whether CoH is a better game, whining about EQ, or whining about whining. Time to bring out the Moderator Hammer +5 (and scissors, if need be).

Keep on-topic with regard to the soloing system in EQ. This can be solo LDONs, the described Task system, or something similar. You can compare similar systems in CoH, AO, and other MMORPGs, but keep the discussion limited to those systems (i.e., stay away from general arguments about why CoH, etc., is better than EQ). Also, no whining (which can be pointless), and no whining about whining (which is even more pointless). Include some substance in your posts.

Problems and solutions for Solo LDoN to work:

Problem #1) Too many mobs that are agressive and chain aggro (pull one and you pull any that are in range). Summoning mobs would be a killer for root classes.

Soultion: In Solo LDoN: Reduce the number of mobs by 50-70%, Make them agressive, but not chain aggro (if you pull one out of a pack of six you only get the one you pulled). Absolutely NO summoning mobs.

How workable is this : High
Difficulty to implement : Low

Problem #2) Solo LDoN boss mobs. Many classes can not handle a boss-type mob when they are solo.

Solution: Remove all boss mobs in Solo-LDoN.
How workable is this : High (but dissapointing)
Difficulty to implement : Low

Solution: Create tailored Boss mobs depending on the class of the player. Tailor the Boss so that the class that is doing the LDoN has a good chance of defeating it.

How workable is this : High
Difficulty to implement : Very High, would need careful balancing.

Problem #3) All classes must be able to do solo adventures. Off the top of my head, this will require some sort of outside help for Warriors, Rogues, Monks to help them heal the damage they will incur. Other classes will require either damage additions or a mixture of healing and damage additions.

Solutions: One solution is NPC pets. Perhaps add a few more pet commands for LDoN like /pet heal me, /pet buff me, /pet nuke target, /pet slow target. Then you can have different classes of pets.. Warriors, Rogues and Monks may desire to use a cleric NPC pet which can heal them the most often. Perhaps other classes would prefer a Wizard NPC pet which can cast direct damage spells, Or a shaman NPC that can slow targets. It would make the most sense for these pets to be the specialist classes.

How workable is this : High
Difficulty to implement : High

Solution: The Solo LDoN Adventure Recruiter can sell greater healing and greater mana regen potions (Have a level limits on them, so that low level characters can not use the higher level potions). These may only be used inside a solo LDoN adventure instance. This has the benefit of being relatively easy to implement at the penalty of allowing people with a lot of PP to get lots of easy experience. Perhaps with a limit of 3 successful solo LDoN missions per day would limit the abuse by rich characters.

Addition: Better yet, make the solo LDoN greater healing and greater mana regen potions able to be player made by grandmaster tradeskillers. But still only usable inside those solo instanced zones.

How workable is this? Moderate.
Difficulty to Implement? Low.

Never played CoH, but from everything I have read, I would become bored with it within 2 months. Reason being, once novelty wears off, seems like there is nothing left to do in this game but repeat the same things (like EQ), with the difference that it's for nothing (unlike EQ where you can gain that new item, see that new zone, etc). It's the difference between playing dominos *yet again*, and playing Bridge in tournament-style play. The latter would be more interesting to me in the long run, because at least I would have something to shoot for. But everyone enjoys themselves differently, and that's all well and good.

CoH seems to be fast-action paced, twitch-style play. I'm not really into these kinda games. I prefer a tactical game, where what I do matters much more than how fast I can react and press the buttons. Where mistakes I make are much more because I didnt think enough than because I didnt have time to think.

Meaning, in short, that EQ and CoH are 2 different games, and that's good.

Me, too, do not believe in a viable CoH game 5 years from now. Not unless it changes in gameplay and philosophy.

Now, solo LDoN. I must say I am disappointed it's not a higher priority. I understand it's hard to code, etc. Still, this is something highly demanded by players, so I would think this would be what would be worked on. Well, I guess they are going for Tasks... If so, Tasks should be, imho, LDoN-style, ie in instanced mini-zones. But with GoD or better instancing technology. And definitely should be up to Lvl 70 by launch time.

One request : lower LdoN group-limit to 2, or 1. Now, it's 3. Sometime into OoW, some toons will most likely be able to win a normal mission solo. Heck, I bet it could be done now... It would require about zero code change to allow that...

Also, allow an easy-level LDoN setting. Less experience, less reward, but... could be done solo by more folks, and I can't imagine it would be too hard to implement.

Callahad

Well, I can't argue how fast you'd be bored with CoH, but a few of your observations are wrong. It isn't a fast twitch game at all, it *is* faster paced though, meaning less downtime. CoH is very like EQ in the first 60 levels. You level, get new abilities, go to new zones, see new mission maps, fight new villains with different abilities. But you don't acquire gear. The thing you're looking forward to is new abilities or improvements on your existing ones. That was the part of EQ I liked best really. It's exactly as tactical or not as you wish to play it. Kind of like EQ is in that regard. There's such a vast array of abilities that affect things that you have to make quick decisions about what abilities to use.

I do agree there currently isn't enough variety in CoH to hold anyone's attention for many, many years like EQ did. But it is a brand new game and the people who seem to like it best are the folks who will take a long time to use up the content.

Whoops... just saw Scirocco's post. Sorry about the hijacking...

EQ would feel sluggish to me if I were to go back. I'd rather have 90 minutes of intense immersion than 90 minutes of looking for a group followed by 90 minutes of play. The part about soloing in EQ with my druid I found enjoyable was using my abilities to kill things that could easily kill me. That's where I think this initiative for soloing misses, from what I've heard so far. Running errands for experience sounds dull.

I still like the arena battle idea or something along that lines. To toss out a random idea, you zone into a zone, a small group to help you is created and the bad guy(s) are created. You battle it out! If you win, you get a nice exp bonus and next time you can advance a level. If you lose, you don't suffer a death penalty. Perhaps you could build your own team of NPC helpers or the system would do it based on your class.

One thing that CoH does that LDoN should do is make missions (i.e. LDoN's) scalable depending on the size of your group. If you zone in alone, you generally don't see more than two mobs together. If you zone in with 8 in your group, you're likely to see a dozen or more mobs together. Which is fun. :)

If you want to talk solo missions CoH isn't the place to start. AO has been doing missions for solo or group for years and doing it well, CoH didn't invent instancing.

I won't get into the CoH vs EQ debate cause it's apples to oranges, they are very different games. The 2 were designed for diffent playstyles some will enjoy one more than the other.

I'm glad some that used to play EQ now enjoy CoH, EQ kept my attention on and off for 4 years CoH for 2 months.

I might have returned to EQ if a soloing option was more available but most likely I wouldn't have. As a druid I solo'd, as a druid I was told why are you lfg go solo. I would much prefer they add content that would allow less optimal grouping in higher content than add a way for all classes to enjoy the boredom of soloing. I'd love to be able to group meaningful content again with friends and not wait for a tank or a cleric or a slower to be available.

Solutions: One solution is NPC pets. Perhaps add a few more pet commands for LDoN like /pet heal me, /pet buff me, /pet nuke target, /pet slow target. Then you can have different classes of pets.. Warriors, Rogues and Monks may desire to use a cleric NPC pet which can heal them the most often. Perhaps other classes would prefer a Wizard NPC pet which can cast direct damage spells, Or a shaman NPC that can slow targets. It would make the most sense for these pets to be the specialist classes.

I've seen several suggestions about the idea of NPC pets/companions for classes who cannot solo well on their own (or even for classes who can). No doubt we've all seen the pseudo pets in LDoN and Nature's Boon warders with their pulse heals ... and thought hmm, why not take it a step further and create pets with specialized abilities.

Personally, I think hiring 'henchmen' to accompany us would almost be a natural NPC progression in, but also can't help but think how FPSish this could become. I mean really, why invite a cleric PC who might go afk or miss a heal, when you can bring along an NPC healer who responds instantly to your commands? Tank PC might not taunt or might be AFK during a pull, but no problem with an NPC tank who rushes in on your command...

If they do eventually come up with solo/duo LDoNs ... rather than special NPCs custom-tailored to compliment various class abilities, I'd prefer SOE to simply have LDoNs adjust mob difficulty according to the player character's class, level, hp/ac, mana, etc. That might've been entirely too complicated to calculate for a group of players, but for a single player it shouldn't be that tough. And the mobs don't need to hit as hard as traditional mobs to present a challenge; those stats can also be adjusted according to the player's class.

Still, I'm leaning towards a task system over Ldons. Doesn't mean part of the mission couldn't be done inside an instanced zone, but I just don't like the notion of secluding players from each other.

What I'd really really love to see in a task system:

- An "activate" button similar to what we have for Tribute abilities; a player could start a mission, and if he or she needs to log off or run to help a guildie, switch the mission to 'inactive'.
- NO random drops. A run of luck with the game's RNG should not result in me killing 5 mobs and getting what the task requires, while someone else has killed 50 mobs and still doesn't have all the pieces.
- NO class favoritism. I'm all for a rogue being asked to sneak and pickpocket a quest piece from a mob, but class-specific missions need to be balanced for the overall time needed to complete; e.g., said rogue might need to navigate a long underground passage and find the mob to pickpocket, whereas a class that has to kill a mob would find it a bit more quickly.
- NO session timers. Each task mission should be segmented, so the player can return to the taskgiver NPC at any time, hand in whatever pieces have been collected thus far, and resume the mission later.

Regarding the 'no timer' preference ... I just want to make 100% sure that players working on a task/mission would never be directly penalized for putting their solo mission on hold if they're invited to group or if their guild needs them. Remember, this is a multiplayer game; anything that comes between a player and his friends/guildies/potential groupmates, is a BAD thing.

~Firemynd

I'd prefer SOE to simply have LDoNs adjust mob difficulty according to the player character's class, level, hp/ac, mana, etc. That might've been entirely too complicated to calculate for a group of players, but for a single player it shouldn't be that tough.

On the contrary, I think it makes it really tough. A shaman, a necro, a bard, a druid, a warrior, all solo very differently and at much different rates. You can assume some things about group makeup that you cannot assume on solo play. It makes the answer on a class by class basis wildly different.

- An "activate" button similar to what we have for Tribute abilities; a player could start a mission, and if he or she needs to log off or run to help a guildie, switch the mission to 'inactive'.

That is if the task is Timed. I have not seen if it is or not

NO random drops. A run of luck with the game's RNG should not result in me killing 5 mobs and getting what the task requires, while someone else has killed 50 mobs and still doesn't have all the pieces.

Disagree on this one. RNG has always been part of EQ. It's not used everywhere, but it's heavily used. From combat to tradeskills, to picking a drop from a loot table.

I would assume Tasks would be a little like GoD trials. Ie you have an instanced zone, no timer, and for Tasks, zone is limited to one person. There could be other tasks given out in non-instanced zones, again, no timer. I could be wrong, but that's the way I perceive it.

Callahad

Still, I'm leaning towards a task system over Ldons. Doesn't mean part of the mission couldn't be done inside an instanced zone, but I just don't like the notion of secluding players from each other.


The current LDON system secludes players from each other. Once that LDON has started, they might as well be on a different planet. Moreover, people currently can do solo LDONs if they jump through the hoops.

The current GoD instancing system similarly secludes players from each other, once they get far enough in and past the respawn point.

There are other mechanisms in the game that seclude players from others. Worrying about players able to seclude themselves from other players is silly, especially if that's what the players want to do.

Furthermore, a solo LDONer has all the chat capabilities with the rest of the players, and thus is no more secluded than any other LDONer or soloer.

The reason that seclusion is put into games is sometimes to stop players abusing the situations where they can interact. This interaction might be powerlevelling, camp hogging, training, raid spoiling, mob blocking, verbal abuse, or other unhealthy stuff. EQ history is littered with players exploiting all of those things when and where they can. There's no reason why EQ can't have a mix of 'havoc' zones with a big lively community (like old Antonica, pre-kunark) and secluded instanced zones, a bit of something for everyone.

With chat channels, though, zone-wide chat sort of became meaningless. While I love chat channels, it *did* remove another aspect of travel and the community it helped to create. Brad recognized this and even commented on it when the system was opened. Once that cat was let out of the bag, there's very little reason to continue with the idea that lumping people together in the same zone will form a community, because people can (and do) simply join a channel with friends or other people with common interests and ignore what's going on in the zone except for their immediate surroundings.

The "must group at all costs" paradigm has been dead since chat channels were opened, even if the devs havent realized it.

I would like to see them implement solo content immediately, without worrying about having all classes being able to solo the content equally well. When I first started EQ, it was very clear that some classes were heavily group reliant, while others (i.e., druid and necro) were solo oriented, at the cost of group desirability. This was part of the game, and was an important part of class selection. I'd like to see it return.

Vestix

why invite a cleric PC who might go afk or miss a heal, when you can bring along an NPC healer who responds instantly to your commands? Tank
~Firemynd

Because a bot will never be a substitue for a human. On topic - go see I Robot. There is a great scene that depicts this very thing.

A friend of mine used to run a cleric using a macro program. It was pretty cool, allowing us play the game when the woman who played the cleric wasn't around. Still, no matter how well programed it was, it was never a substitute for having her online.

Because a bot will never be a substitue for a human. On topic - go see I Robot. There is a great scene that depicts this very thing.

And there's a scene later in the movie that proves it can change and a robot can be just as good as a human.

Why assume that the bot healer will be a good healer? That it will have the same spells as a cleric etc? It's easy to make that NPC healer a poor substitute for a cleric, or any kind of healer for that matter.

Callahad

they dont need to make special coding,
they just should remove all of the soloing restriction they have implemented through past years, like summoning mobs, low single player exp etc.

only coding needed is to make some solo quests with good risk vs. reward ratio, then soloing IS more risky than grouping and adding some quadding, rootrotting spots with snarable mobs, that allow unusual groups.

let people decide which way they want to aquire their items.

But then they could also let you get minimal exp from green mobs so anyone can solo and farm tradeskill supplies at the same time.

As for the coding, it is already in place with the interrogater badge quest and the LDoN sleeping mobs. All you need is to have the NPC follow like any pet when you are ready to move and have it respond to simple commands. Could be a simple change. At the entrance have a couple of NPC's (tank and healer or just a paladin) lying around like the sleeping mobs in LDoN. Nudge the one you want and it becomes your pet. Have them respond to pet commands (ie. follow, stay, guard, attack) and for healing npc's add a /heal command that makes the pet target you and cast its highest heal (and maybe a /cure command). There shouldn't be that many mobs close to each other in a solo LDoN so crowd control shouldnt be an issue and if your pet dies go back and get the other one or pick up one of the other sleeping mobs in the LDoN. Since LDoN points are based on Level and Difficulty you should get the same points as if you were in a LDoN group to use to buy what you want.

By nerfing all of the good quests they have created this situation. Before soloing wasn't so much of an issue because you could solo all of the quest and get something you wanted. Now quest take flags and guilds to complete if they are worthwile and solo quest require months of tradeskilling and not leveling to get anything worthwile.

No more killing mobs and leveling up while you solo a quest that gives a blue bubble of exp and a nice item.

A shaman, a necro, a bard, a druid, a warrior, all solo very differently and at much different rates. You can assume some things about group makeup that you cannot assume on solo play. It makes the answer on a class by class basis wildly different.
Even the the soloing styles within a class can vary wildly. Take druids, for example ( :p ). Seems to me that we have 3, if not more, different soloing styles just among the druids -- kiting; rotting (root dotting); and pet charming. Each of these styles is "wildly different" and that's just within our own class.

Even the the soloing styles within a class can vary wildly. Take druids, for example ( :p ). Seems to me that we have 3, if not more, different soloing styles just among the druids -- kiting; rotting (root dotting); and pet charming. Each of these styles is "wildly different" and that's just within our own class.

I don't think solo LDoN is much of a problem for a druid if they remove the run speed effect immune mobs.. I have stayed after groups have left and soloed a couple so with fewer mobs is quite doable. We could root/rot and once a long space is cleared we could kite.. The LDoN "Pets" already exist although they are pretty useless. The discussion is more about how to make them so that all classes could solo in one. Having a Paladin or at least a Shaman "Pet" would pretty much complement all classes enough they could solo in one. Or having lots of no rent potions for Heal/regen/KEI drop would work. Maybe even just putting mana or HP healing fountains along the way.