just a touch of irony that i see today. all these classes call us whiners over and over.

Paladin:
pub13.ezboard.com/fpaladi...6328.topic (http://pub13.ezboard.com/fpaladinsofnorrathgeneral.showMessage?topicID=1632 8.topic)

pub13.ezboard.com/fpaladi...6315.topic (http://pub13.ezboard.com/fpaladinsofnorrathgeneral.showMessage?topicID=1631 5.topic)

Clerics:
eqcleric.gameglow.com/for...adid=11121 (http://eqcleric.gameglow.com/forums/showthread.php?s=611de18c0776692c96e846dbe2af75ff&threadid=11121)

mages:
pub6.ezboard.com/fthemagi...6254.topic (http://pub6.ezboard.com/fthemagicianstowergeneral.showMessage?topicID=6254 .topic)

pub6.ezboard.com/fthemagi...6257.topic (http://pub6.ezboard.com/fthemagicianstowergeneral.showMessage?topicID=6257 .topic)

bard:
pub105.ezboard.com/ftheco...4793.topic (http://pub105.ezboard.com/ftheconcerthallbackstage.showMessage?topicID=14793 .topic)

warrior:
pub14.ezboard.com/ftheste...1137.topic (http://pub14.ezboard.com/fthesteelwarriorthetavern.showMessage?topicID=1137 .topic)

pub14.ezboard.com/ftheste...1109.topic (http://pub14.ezboard.com/fthesteelwarriorthetavern.showMessage?topicID=1109 .topic)

rangers:
forums.interealms.com/ran...eadid=8303 (http://forums.interealms.com/ranger/showthread.php?s=afedae1a7cfe3b42548bf74a957fa3ac&threadid=8303)

monks:
pub35.ezboard.com/fmonkly...1133.topic (http://pub35.ezboard.com/fmonklybusiness43508frm1.showMessage?topicID=31133 .topic)

wizzies:
pub23.ezboard.com/fgraffe...9888.topic (http://pub23.ezboard.com/fgraffeswizardcompilationfrm1.showMessage?topicID= 19888.topic)

i find it quite generally ironic that all these classes point to us and bitch that we whine too much. it took me about 10 minutes of my time to visit respective boards and pick out the first 1-2 topics i saw that looked whiny. maybe 1-2 is possibly wrong, i barely spent any time after i read the first 5-6 posts.

on another note, the shaman and necro boards containted almost no whining at all. some real food for thought.

People who whine about whiners like those in those threads...

LOL

I would like to say the warriors do have some legitimate concerns. They have one main job that depends on about three different things. First is hit points. While they do have the most hp of any class, once max stamina and nd3 is reached, warriors hit their peak lead against other classes. As the hp continue to go up, the gap remains the same which means the percentage of hp advantage warriors had continues to decrease. Second is mitigation. Once the ac cap is reached (which is equal for all melee I believe), warriors are worse tanks than monks and only slightly better than the knight classes. Third is aggro. The only way warriors have to control aggro is procs (which are random), taunt (which is random), dps, and a few other tricks.

With these shield changes, a melee with a shield is better at taking damage than one without. The problem for warriors there is they don't have the weapons that knight classes do with really high dps, they lose 1/3 of their dps if not dual wielding, and they lose 1/3 of their procs if not dual wielding. This will greatly lower their already spotty aggro control. It will also lower the whole raid's dps since they have to hold back so much to control aggro.

All warriors want is to be better at taking damage than any other class and have a mostly reliable taunt.

I believe it will be fixed eventually the same as I believed our healing would be fixed eventually. But durring that time of silence waiting and wondering what fixes we would get I wasn't a happy camper and I let people know it. I read the warrior boards somewhat regularly and they have to be one of the lowest whine and highest information boards out there. I used to think of most warriors as big thugs (hard not to think of those big ogres that way), but after reading their boards for a while I am begining to think most of them are number crunching geeks. ;)

What I love is how everyone is says they have such hard time finding groups. Especially the clerics, that cracks me up. Oh @#%$, every group doesnt need one of my class anymore! In every single one of those, the class says they wont be necessary in groups anymore, so if no classes are making up groups who the Hell are in them?

Shaman and their twink monks.

Or monks and their twink shaman!

Two boxing!

Hehe

Tia

Taylena:
Please link us the Warrior Message Board. I have a guildie in need of some useful info and I'd like to offer him a link :)

Tankies in advance :)

Ciao for now!

I love the whole "clerics are gonna melee better than paladins now!" bit. You show me a group that lets their cleric primarily tank in a zone of any moderate difficulty (Seb, Cazic, etc) and I'll show you a pile of 6 corpses.

But wait I forgot! Druids are the new clerics now! So now clerics can be secondary assist and druids can form the CH rotation on the main tank! w00t!

The Steel Warrior (http://pub14.ezboard.com/bthesteelwarrior) is the best warrior board I have found. They do lots of equipment discussion and they even break mobs down into how hard they hit and how often and have the calculations broken down with numbers assigned and which you should use evasive on and which need defensive and so much info it makes my head hurt, hehe. I just want to know if I should kick them in the shin or slightly higher. ;)

Thanks Talyena for your post there. This is my first time to this msg board(kinda bored lol). Glad to see some people other than us warriors saying that we need some help.

"All warriors want is to be better at taking damage than any other class and have a mostly reliable taunt."

That is for certainly the gods honest truth!

btw, i'm a druid lover as u can see in my new sig...


[personal icon messing up the left margin]

I love the whole "clerics are gonna melee better than paladins now!" bit. You show me a group that lets their cleric primarily tank in a zone of any moderate difficulty (Seb, Cazic, etc) and I'll show you a pile of 6 corpses.

Watched a 60 cleric tank(rather efficiently, I might add) at the Kitty mask camp in Ssra, very recently. I'm assuming that this would count as moderate difficulty, yes? :p

I think for the most part Warriors can do there job well...I mean if they couldnt how could we have people killing mobs like AoW or the Emperor or other mobs. However, I do agree that other classes are coming too close to the Warrior's tanking ability. A Warrior should be the main tank in the game hands down. There should never by anyone close to them. If they are giving SK's these aggro spells and such on test, if they go live I would hope VI would toss the Warrior's a bone.

It never ceases to amaze me how a group of semi-knowledgable people can come forward and interject reasonable opinions only to be mingled with the off-base theories and thoughts of folks who quite obviously have zero clue.

This is definately a thread highjack, but I'm taking this into specifics, responses to those that think warriors are or are not broken. Me doing this in the first place is amazing, as I'm posting it on a board that uses the end game as the basis for every single argument they have, when it shows clearly that a small to moderate percentage of said communty have any understanding of the end game whatsoever. You'd think some people would know. I'll chalk this up to the raid/group inexperience of some druids in the high end game.

Warriors do not think they're broken because they think they suck. Warriors are the same now as they were when the game was released, albiet with some disciplines thrown in for good measure. The main complaint is this - a Warrior's sole purpose in any fight is to serve as the main tank. He has trained and fought all those levels to do three things - take damage, manage the aggro of monsters to make sure that he's the sole person taking damage, and to perhaps deal a little damage here or there. Of those three, the Warrior expects to be the best at the first two. That's his role. This game works on the principle that there are three distinct groupings of classes, the tanks, the priests, and the casters. Of those, the warriors are the best tanks, the priests are the best healers, and the wizards are the best damage dealers. They receive little else in the way of other benefits. They are broad and generalized, the representatives of each of those three aspects of the fight. The warrior might not deal as much damage as the rogue or monk, or heal like the ranger or paladin, but he tanks the best. The priest might not DoT or teleport or slow or debuff, but he heals the best. The Wizard might not buff at all, but he deals damage the best. Not a hard concept to grasp.

To place this into perspective, imagine, for a second, you're a cleric. This argument should really be driven home by the recent changes and posts on the new "CHeals". Now, imagine if, over time, Druids have suddenly become a better healer than you. Marginally better, at points, but still better. Druids still have all the goodness they had before, but now they can heal better than you, too.

That's a broad-based argument, but it represents what's happening within the Warrior community. Since late Velious, at the latest, the Warrior has slowly been replaced by the Monk. With the discovery of the AC softcap, it became quickly apparent that there is zero advantage to AC at all, as all melee classes can easily reach the same AC no matter what type of armor they wear. Now, we're left with a game of HP. As most +125 HP items are usable by both monks and warriors, it's not hard to conceive of monks with warrior-comparable or warrior-equal HP. Not hard to conceive because its true.

That leaves us with two classes with equal or roughly equal HP and equal AC. That leaves defensive skills, with which the Monk reigns supreme over all classes. Now, answer this question : who would you rather have tank, the Warrior, or the Warrior with more defensive skills and higher DPS? And that's what it's turned into. Two warrior classes, one inferior, one superior. Not to mention the fact that Taunt seems broken at times and cannot compete with the insane DPS output of a monk, especially a barded monk.

This is an exaggeration of sorts, and represents only the high end, but that's what all arguments these days center around, so by default, that's all that matters to most players. Not all monks are better than warriors. But we're getting there steadily. And that's the warrior complaint.

I'll land this thread and let the hostages free now.

You show me a group that lets their cleric primarily tank in a zone of any moderate difficulty (Seb, Cazic, etc) and I'll show you a pile of 6 corpses




While disagree with you saying that old seb is a moderatly diffcult zone.


Ive played main tank in a duo in old seb myself/druid duoing we where at guardian camp I would pull mok/mor the mob the druid would root/dot/DS me and would straight up tank/porcpine it to death with myself and the druid sharing healing duties.

Wasnt as fast exp as a full group or a monk/cleric duo but it was half decent exp and not to hard we did have outside help in the form of C3 but thats it and as you can see from my profile Im fair from been "uberly" equipped.






Venerable Vamenea Deryther
60th High Priest of Innoruuk
<Unguilded & No longer retired~>
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