Saw this on the SOE druid board. Anyone able to log in a level 70 beta druid to check these numbers?

Solstice Strike (Fire-based DD): WAS 2220 dmg..NOW 1926....A difference of 294 dmg

Glitterfrost (Cold-based DD): WAS 2216 dmg..NOW 2132....

Ancient Glacier Frost (Cold-based DD): WAS 2437 Dmg..NOW 2302...

because wizard complain about our nuke getting too close to them.

of cuz, mage is able to crit for 8k, send swarm pet for 250 DPS, casting near 0 aggro 420 DS, have 150 DPS pet is perfectly well balance

Saw no indication of this in Lucy. If this is true, this is a complete backtread making the level 69 nuke absolutely worthless. Well I am definitely not going to purchase this expansion if these changes go Live. The level 69/70 spells being no-drop was already one bad strike against this expansion. That coupled with hearing how this expansion is Luclin all over again with mobs with way too many hitpoints, poor zone design for grouping - that maze zone, and just not hearing too many positive reports regarding beta content in general. Oh and I love how they removed the upgrade from spell casting subtlety, and supposedly charm is absolutely worthless in OOW - all the danger with very low DPS/unable to haste once charmed.

Wizards complain about druid nukes (http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21930)? Unpossible!

well this would be a great blow to me if they not only dont give us a new CH spell but also nerf all our nukes down. I may be forced to either move to a mage or cleric where at least i can focus on doing something right. We're not gonna get a ton of invites to groups or raids with the way this is shaping up. The fire nuke is the bread and butter of a druid IMO because its easily debuffed for and at least with the summers flame, works with focus effects on the ornate gloves. Maybe this will end up not being true. I sure hope so because its startting to feel like even a druid with a ton of aa and great gear is gonna have trouble fulfilling either a primary healer role or a DPS role. If they can't do either of those then it doesnt make much sense to invite them.

I'm probably gonna catch mad flames for this but I'd have to agree that it would be wrong for a druid nuke to be more efficient than a wizard nuke.

There is no two ways about it, a wizard is a nuker and only a nuker. ( I consider ports utility spells ) They absolutely should be the best at it.

I do not want our nukes nerfed but if it's more efficient than any non ancient wizard nuke that's just unbalanced. We gotta be realistic here guys.

Our charm and advanced DC get nerfed/removed and some of us say it was needed.

Our healing doesn't improve (near enough) and some say we'd infringe on clerics if it were better.

Our nukes get nerfed and some of us say we'd infringe on wizards if they didn't.

We F%$^ ourselves into mediocrity, and have no one to blame but ourselves. If we're against us who can possibly be for us?

The solution to any efficiency concerns would be to increase mana, or lower the mana of the wizard spell. Keep in mind, as well, that the wizard spell is a couple levels lower, so being lower efficiency is not shocking.

As far as I can tell we're just as screwed as wizards. Their nukes should have be increased so they're superior, not ours nerfed. Any word on the status of mage nukes though?

I have the feeling 9 out of 10 SoE big-shots play melee.

I have the feeling 9 out of 10 SoE big-shots play melee

I have a feeling that 9 out of those 9 play warriors as they cant play anything that requires real skill~

You assume that they still play EQ and dont play WoW or EQ2 in their spare time instead! 8) (Although I do recommend CoH as far as live games go if they are short on time 8P )

Anyway, I've heard that Zajeer plays a wiz and Khavok a monk, not sure what the others play, course they only get to play an hour a day tops... sorta ironic the heavy emphasis on long play sessions lately hehe.

I am the poster of the Nuke nerfs on SoE's Druid Circle forum. I am also a Beta Tester for Omens of War and I CAN confirm that our Nukes, Solstice Strike, Glitterfrost, and Ancient Glacer Frost have been nerfed. Whether these will remain as is, is unknown at this time. But having had prior beta testing experience, I don't hold out much hope for this.

Also, Advanced Dire Charm AA's and Sleight of Hand AA's have been removed from the Omens page of the AA window (But I believe this is rather old news)

Nanoq MajicBlade
70 Naturalist Natureguard (Beta Tester)
65 Elder Storm Warden
The Elitists (Live Server Guild)
The Tribunal (Live Server)

Naturalist natureguard sounds redundant and stupid!
LOL! just had to throw that in there!

Yeah, I agree it would've made more sence to adjust mana costs of wizzard nukes than nerf druid nukes down.

The proper fix would be to lower the mana cost of wizard nukes, not nerf the amount of druid nukes. Well they just lost one potential sell of OOW.

seriously, mage is the one that is competitng with wizard directly, not druids.

with all the new toys for mage, their substain DPS will be much higher than wizard. Wizard's spell does need some help.

*shh* my mage alt is starting to get up there... /nudge

Though seroisly I think they linked a few of mages big nukes and upped the mana cost to try and fix that too, but if not yeah, I guess if druids are going to take a hit rather than wizards a boost, than mages deserve one too

How do the numbers look now for these nerfed nukes w/ and w/out focus as compared to existing nukes?

/shrug. Wizard DPS is so far in excess of ours, I don't see why its such a huge deal if our nukes are more efficient. Just like Clerics don't have to be the best at every facet of healing the game allows (they are) to be the best healers, Wizzards don't have to be the best at every facet of nuking to be the best nukers. There is no need to *fix* anything. That said, if they are going to change it, I hope they improve Wizzy efficiency rather then nerf Druid DPS.

To late for that hope ><

This goes live my account goes dead.
I am to tired of SoE BS.

The ice nerf isn't really that bad, I am not too bothered by it. I'm really concerned however about the change to the fire nuke. That's a HUGE nerf. And it makes no sense at all in the scheme of things. Sometimes I wonder what's going on in their heads. And why nerf fire nuke so hard and not ice? This does not seem well thought out to me.

And I'm pretty pissed at wizards atm. Why scream NERF DRUIDS!? Why not say, hey Sony, please make our nukes more efficient!? And while I'm at it, druids aren't your worst competition wizards, mages are....get a clue.

This is pretty upsetting to me since I was not going to pre-order OOW untill certain things were resolved (and they were). So I went ahead and pre-ordered. Now at the last minute they throw this crap in and I almost wish I hadn't ordered it. The only reason I won't cancel it is to stay up with my guild.

And mages get quick damages to (rightfully perhaps)

Bassicly 1 heal, nukes nerfed, no unique AA, looks like another nice expantion for druids

Every aspect of our class has opportunity for improvement.

More healing, more nuking, more dotting, better spells, higher level, better stats. I could go on and on.

AND we have a completely new ress-type ability.

For those of you who are complaining about every new expansion, I really don't think there's anything SOE can do with druids that'll make you fall back in love with your class (short of giving them a second set of arms).

Maybe you should look into a new class.. a new game, or a new hobby.

I love my druid. he's the man, and now he's going to be an even better druid.

Here are the numbers

Solstice Strike : 1926 dmg for 443 mana
Sylvan Fire : 1705 dmg for 430 mana

With focii that becomes 3091 average dmg, for 408 mana, casted in 3.9 seconds for SS, as opposed to 2813 average dmg, for 387 mana, casted in 3.6 seconds. (edit : recast is 2.75, not 2.25 as I had thought)

SS : DPS = 465, DPM = 7.57
SF : DPS = 443, DPM = 7.27

Result : 5% increase in DPS, and 4% increase in DPM.

Analysis : it's a pretty good spell, overall. Much better than I anticipated before running numbers. The one factor that plays in its favor is the DPM. The spell is better DPS and DPM even considering current focii, and that can only increase with level 70 focii.

The value is relative however. If wizard spells are gaining 30% in DPS and 10% in DPM, for example, then druids would clearly be getting left behind. But I dont think wizards get an increase in DPM, unless I miss my guess?

Personnally, I still prefer the 2220 dmg version. Make it slightly less efficient however. Make it cost 560 mana instead of 535. That will put it in line with Sylvan Fire for DPM.

Callahad

Geesh I love my druid too! But good grief, someone can replace us at the drop of a hat with anything, we are xp sponges. We can kinda heal and kinda nuke, our snare is obselete cus everyone can snare. When do we get even the slightest edge? :banghead:
Guess its time to solo, cus noone will want us for groups unless nothing else is biting
oh well my 2cents :bubbrubb2

Geesh I love my druid too! But good grief, someone can replace us at the drop of a hat with anything, we are xp sponges. We can kinda heal and kinda nuke, our snare is obselete cus everyone can snare. When do we get even the slightest edge? :banghead:
Guess its time to solo, cus noone will want us for groups unless nothing else is biting
oh well my 2cents :bubbrubb2

wonder if experience sponge will be one of the available titles

Sigh, it must be a perception thing. OOW isn't even live yet or least for another hour or so and we already got hit with the nerf bat again. I mean is it like probhibited for a druid to have "1" useful spell that might earn a desired spot in a group? I don't think we would infringe upon the domain of wizards as their nuke does more damage and is acquired at a lower level. Last time I checked wizards crit more often as well so there role as massive dps provider will not disappear. I have yet to see a raid that said no, we don't need more wizards we need more druids for dps.

But then again thats why I am a druid, I fight smarter not harder, I cast smarter not harder, I heal smarter not harder. Can't tell you how many people have tried to play a druid to only give up in frustration.

I still remember when a MT had a hard time keeping aggro while a druid was swinging at the mob as well.

Narrow minded people will only see one aspect of a druid to the exclusion of all else.

Elhawk
"There are basically 10 people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't."
unknown

Every aspect of our class has opportunity for improvement.

More healing, more nuking, more dotting, better spells, higher level, better stats. I could go on and on.

AND we have a completely new ress-type ability.

For those of you who are complaining about every new expansion, I really don't think there's anything SOE can do with druids that'll make you fall back in love with your class (short of giving them a second set of arms).

Maybe you should look into a new class.. a new game, or a new hobby.

I love my druid. he's the man, and now he's going to be an even better druid.


Are you looking at the same expansion we are? Cause druids got bent over and reamed with OoW.

Yup, nerfed nukes on live. It's not just druid though. I looked at mage, wizzy, ench and cleric and their nukes got nerfed as well.

Unfortunately Elhawk the narrow minded people are the ones who we have to hope will group us. Oh well, I am just glad that my rl b/f is a chanter and I can sponge off his invites otherwise I feel I am probably going to wrack up a lot of soloing hours. I do have to admit I am amazed that Sony, who has tried so hard to get rid of soloing, keeps making its soloing classes more and more undesirable so that is all that is left to us.

Cause druids got bent over and reamed with OoW.


No he isn't really.

He's mostly into farming and killing named for plat.

If you look at a lot of the high end druids on our server I think they were looking for a healing or nuking boost that would make them more group desirable.

They reduced Druids and Wizards both, but the Druids were hit far far far harder. We are better off without the expansion.

On fire Nukes -
Druid DPS/Wizard DPS in GoD = .658
Druid DPS/Wizard DPS in OOW before the pre-live nerf = .659
Druid DPS/Wizard DPS in OOW = .594

So, yeah, casters all around got nerfed pre-live, but Druids were nerfed more than any other. Nothing new to see here. Move along. Move along.

This is totally unacceptable. Just because mages and wizards complain we get nerfed. I'm suprised they did it, and especially suprised that the druids aren't more pissed off. I figured giving mages quick damage would be MORE than enough to compensate. But as usual SOE always adjusts too much. Its almost like the people that make these decisions don't play. They are probably to busy fixing (making) balancing mistakes to play. How ironic.

~Rova

It's a nerf, but in the grand scheme of things it's minor (imho.) There are more important things to complain about which affect all players, not just one class.

That said, it's pretty sad to see this happen. Druids are not and never have been any sort of dps competitor to mages or wizards, and this is just a slap in the face. The incredibly tiny mana edge on the original spells would not even have made up for the +500 or so mana that wizzies can get from self buffs. As for the wizzies complaining and now rejoicing at our nerfs, well, people suck. They still say things like "druids being the beloved child of SOE" in spite of all evidence to the contrary over the years just makes me tired.

Thank god we got Critical Forage though!

Gets even worse if you count focus effects. By now, most higher level druids have some form of "improved damage" focus for their 60-65th level nukes, which increases DPS; and some form of "mana preservation" focus, which increases DPM. For 68-70th level nukes, we'll see a diminishing return in both until we upgrade our focus items.

I'm suprised they did it, and especially suprised that the druids aren't more pissed off.

Sony knows it can get away with nerfs much more easily when an expansion raises the level cap, because players are much more likely to buy in spite of nerfs.

In the case of OoW, they've added a few things that folks have been requesting for years: another spell gem and more buff slots. With just those two perks and level 70, Sony is well aware it could bend casters over for a no-holds-barred assraping they'd still buy the expansion.

I'm also sure it won't surprise you to know the OoW CD box has "New spell slot & additional buff slots" and "New disciplines, AA's & tradeskills" as separate items in the 'new features' list -- as if the new spell/buff slots are gained simply by buying the expansion. Players who don't visit community forums are blissfully unaware of the number crunching and proofing we see on a regular basis; if they did, numbers here would affect Sony's numbers ($) a lot more than they do.

~Firemynd

Lucy had 1,337 changes today, but only on test (no, i'm not kidding).

Among other things, Solstice Strike stayed at its' reduced 1926 damage, but had its' mana cost slashed from 535 to 443.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=5361&source=Test

And Steeloak was nerfed from 805hp to 772.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=5352&source=Test


Probably a bunch more changes on http://lucy.allakhazam.com/newspells.html?source=Test&date=2004-09-14%2022:03:35&page=2


-Noish

Someone tell me this is a mistake Spiritual Serenity (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5416&source=Live)

I understand that HoTs should be more mana efficient. But 3200 hp heal for 292 mana is a little extreme.

Someone tell me this is a mistake Spiritual Serenity (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5416&source=Live)

I understand that HoTs should be more mana efficient. But 3200 hp heal for 292 mana is a little extreme.

Must be a joke. :( :( :( :bs:

-Noish

Yeah, no way they would give shammys that kinda of healing power, even in a HoT.

Another thing you have to love is they're adding an extra spell slot, but making that slot alot less usefull by linking spell cast timers.

Stop worrying about Shammy heals. Worry about Druid nukes and Druid heals. No single target HoT is about to break the game. So we, unlike Wizards, don't need to be complaining about some other class' abilities unless using them as a comparison in an attempt to get ours improved.

So far, I would deem GoD a nuke expansion and OoW a DoT expansion (or at least until overall payer power increases with lvl 70 and improved equipment) in terms of the best usage of my exp grinding mana to dmg ratio.

My DoTs lasted full dmg and then some, even stacking 2-3 at a time. It's just a better option than in GoD when nukes are often better than heals and DoTs are not given the chance to run 4 ticks out of 7, since the mobs have such low HPs and huge dmg output.

The nuke nerf was definately ugly. I'm not happy at all to see it. But at least the AAs aren't highway robbery like in GoD.

Wizards complain about druid nukes (http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21930)? Unpossible!

This thread made me laugh ;P Really.

Even more since the wizards in my guild allways laugh if i tell them i can crit for 4.5K ;P

I dont see why wizards or mages like to complain about druid damage.
Druid versatility has been the only argument against good druid nuking power.
This fails to take into account that a Druid can't do much else if he devoted 100% of his mana and casting time into nuking and DOTs.

I'm surprised nobody has complained about the 33 hit point nerf of Steeloak Skin.

:(

-Noish