Just wanna say that i joined the serverwide druidgrove channel and i was shocked at the level of rudeness by some people.Truly was a dispicable site and i wont be joining that channel again.

well. lemme rant.
I run a Grove on a different chat and I think
all condition of server as it will be taken for the expanse of gaming frontend
should be limited to the proper expanse of technology
for the hopes of server efficiency and relation to the network of demagogue.

When someone is uninterested in taking place in the setting of your game,
keep in mind they do not have truth to the environment
as it currently lasts in the MORPG world of gameplay
and may not keep proper respect for your version of
role playing link. So if the link is set in a chat based
server for media that has not been registed for its
server network, the dilemma is not of registration
tho of network media allowance for the community
in proper terms of game and like references.

Bryano

That last post made no sense. So here's a bunny with a pancake on it's head.

http://users.rcn.com/eglandau/bunny_pancake.jpg

I made my comment about the rudeness in a previous post and that was going to be it but Aluaela you are one reason I will not join again either.

k

haha, alu still keeps scaring people.

Mods cant control Alua =p

There is no controlling that which is Aluaeia :P

He scares everyone, hehe.

Fear the bunny

alu is hawt

He scares everyone, hehe.

Doesnt scare me and quite honestly the channel is there to help one another not belittle each other. You don't want to help your class then just why are you there?

Doesnt scare me and quite honestly the channel is there to help one another not belittle each other. You don't want to help your class then just why are you there?
He's just a kid that has this need to feel important and better than everyone else. I just ignore him. He hasn't said a worthwhile thing in... Well, Aluaeia has NEVER said a worthwhile thing. Anyway, kids will be kids.

Doesnt scare me and quite honestly the channel is there to help one another not belittle each other. You don't want to help your class then just why are you there?

Who said the channel is there for people to help one another? Far as I know, the serverwide channel was created simply as an extension of this community. Take a moment to browse the two EQ forums of TDG and you'll notice there are 14 boards, only 1 of which is titled "Help" ... the rest are for people to socialize, rant, discuss issues both game-related and off-topic.

Of those 14 boards, also notice that 6 of them (7 if you count "EQ Expansions") are primarily for compiling and storing information. Those boards serve as an extensive reference library where anyone can look up details for spells, quests, item comparisons, AA abilities... it's a vast and cumulative database covering years' worth of discussion and research. All categorized and waiting to be perused. With a search feature too!

And still, some people insist on logging into the TDG channel to ask questions that are already answered right here on these boards. I mean hey, it's not like Sobe had anything else to do with the thousands of dollars it takes to keep all that information available here, right?

Granted, we all know that every once in a while some true newbie is going to find their way into the channel and ask a question like "where can i get the best exp at level 16?" That's cute more than bothersome.

What isn't cute is when someone joins the channel and says "Hi, where are the epic NPCs in Harbingers?" -- obviously a higher level druid, someone who has been around long enough to know where to find that information, and most likely someone who has already been there but is too lazy to go back and look again.

Some of these 'more experienced' people treat the channel like a shopping mall information desk; when they burst into chat with a question, they expect a prompt and courteous reply... even when it's something that would have taken them all of 2 minutes to look up for themselves, right here on the boards reserved for that very purpose. God forbid they don't get that prompt and courteous reply. And heaven help us all if a regular member of the channel makes a snide remark about it, or uses a 'bad' word in unrelated banter.

Glynna, I won't say that you personally are the reason I don't join the TDG channel anymore, because I don't know you from Eve.

But I will say the reason I stopped joining the channel long ago was because of self-righteous people who seemed to think the channel needed more 'naughty word' monitors; people who expected the channel to be peaches and sunshine 24/7; and people who only joined the channel when they wanted a question answered (right now plztks!).

After a while, it gets tiresome hearing them turn every swear word -- usually no worse than what's on primetime network television -- into a debate about what is "appropriate" for a chat channel. Get over it. Some folks just want to hang loose after a ten hour workday, and we all have different notions for what constitutes 'everyday' words.

Read my posts here .. you'll be hard-pressed to find objectionable language in any of them. I'm just not one who happens to express myself like that. But I do recognize that others have their own ways of expressing themselves, and I'm socially mature enough to recognize the difference between harmless slang expressions and real hate speech.

y only intolerance is for overly intolerant people.

~Firemynd

Moderating in game chat is pretty much worthless until SOE puts in a static ban and ban-account command; a feature which players have been asking for since Velious. Voice is cumbersome and almost impossible to manage, and kick does nothing but cause the offending player to make a join channel macro button.

The naughty word monitors have been evicted. The channel is now run amuck with cursing, e-p33n comparisons and detailed examples of Alu's sexual fantasies. It's quite amusing now.

It's OK. Alu's got nothing on some of the guys in Archlich by way of the overblown ego expression catagory =p. Russian judge gives you a 7.

And yeah it sucks to have to do it, but /ignore is there. =x

I would think that being socially mature would mean that you recognize you are in a public place and try to comport yourself in a way that isn't offensive to others sharing the same space.

As an example, you are very unlikely to bother others you are sharing space with by not smoking, but if you insist upon lighting up in a common area you most likely will bother at least some of the people there.

It's only a matter of common courtesy. If people want to hang out with only a certain group of friends they have made from this board and use language that the group all find acceptable that's fine, but could you please make your own channel and not drag The Druids Grove name into it? People will join that channel expecting to see the same level of communication that they receive here on the boards. And what the chat channel has become is not at all representative of these boards.

If you wouldn't walk into a room with Grandma, Great Aunt Harriet, your Mom and your little sister and use that language then it's most likely not appropriate for a public chat channel.

If you wouldn't walk into a room with Grandma, Great Aunt Harriet, your Mom and your little sister and use that language then it's most likely not appropriate for a public chat channel.

EQ doesn't exactly aim at the "Grandma" demographic; the game's target audience is primarily 18-34, so if we're going to come up with arbitrary language rules based upon the ages of people in imagined social scenarios, it would be more appropriate to ask folks to use the same language they'd use at the local bar, bowling alley, or at a friend's backyard barbecue.

And unlike those places (and your "smoker at a party"), EQ does have a language filter for those who are easily offended.

Unfortunately it doesn't provide any way to filter out admonishments and lectures from those who expect G-rated language from players in a PG13-rated game which features graphic depictions of severed limbs, sacrificial human remains, rotting flesh, and NPCs who are openly hostile to characters they've never met based solely upon race or religion .... all set within an inescapible theme of violence, killing, and death.

If your grandma is okay with that stuff, I don't think she'll need a defribillator when she sees someone using the F word in a chat channel.

~Firemynd

I have met many people in game who fall way outside of your narrow margins of age from 7 to in their 60's. I doubt that you'll find many 13 year olds in your local bars and we certainly don't use language at our backyard parties that people may find offensive. Do people use that kind of language out in public? Of course they do, but are they being socially mature, I think not.

In your circle of friends, whatever is considered the norm and people aren't uncomfortable with is great. It isn't like a private chat room can't be set up where everyone can say and do as they please without "bothersome" people jumping into your channel to ask questions or just to try to meet some of the people they may have seen posting on the Grove. Why you insist that it is good form to show the Grove in that light I really don't understand.

If this were a discussion about how a group of people talk in one of their own chat channels I wouldn't even be posting. But we are talking about how the Druid's Grove is being perceived when people try to go to the channel set up by Sobe and speak with fellow druids. It is a reflection on this board and I believe an unfair one.

But we are talking about how the Druid's Grove is being perceived when people try to go to the channel set up by Sobe and speak with fellow druids. It is a reflection on this board and I believe an unfair one.

I don't think Sobe ever intended for people to feel like they were in a Sunday School class when hanging out in the TDG chat channel. Like I've said already, I'm not one to express myself with language an overly sensitive person would find offensive; but I guess I'm a "freedom of expression" advocate when I see one person trying to impose his/her views of what he/she deems socially acceptable... especially in any chat channel of a game that displays a content warning right on its CD box. /shrug

Why you insist that it is good form to show the Grove in that light I really don't understand.

Well that's the difference between you and me. I don't pretend to represent anyone but myself -- whether in the druid channel, on this board, or in public.

Being in the TDG chat channel does not make us representives of the Grove any more than sitting inside the Washington Monument makes someone a representative of the U.S. Government.

It is a reflection on this board and I believe an unfair one.

If we were inviting SOE officials and world dignitaries to participate in a formal hosted discussion in the druid chat channel, our language and behavior could certainly be interpreted as a "reflection" of this community. But the TDG channel was made for real everyday people who happen to be members of the grove; we're not representing TDG to anyone except ourselves... and we come in all shapes, sizes, and expressions.

~Firemynd

I'm not asking people to behave as if they are in Sunday school. They are in a chat channel created by Sobe for druids and people who visit the Grove. He has been very specific about how he wants people to comport themselves here on the boards and the mods do a great job of making the Grove one of the best, in my opinion, boards out there.

When Sobe created the chat channel he invited anyone who visited this site to join in by posting the banner on the Grove. That was his right, this is in effect his house. When you visit someone's home and they ask you to treat others visiting there with respect and follow a few rules of common courtesy I don't feel that is asking too much. Not only the language used but not being rude to visitors in general.

Below is what Sobe had to say about this topic earlier. Quote follows:

Well .. I didn't see you volunteering either.. I said - send me a tell - Other then that Arvine is now in charge of the entire channel, and quite frankly the attitude of only being on there for so many days must go - it is a channel for all Druids.. tho Gallas is a tard and we all know that.. even I kicked him after he threatened to report me /shrugs.

But then something had to be done.. Chat channel is sometimes a welcome mat for The Druids Grove Forums and if people do not feel welcomed.. well that upsets me.

As for anything else.. arvine@thedruidsgrove.org can be contacted and the issues you have can be discussed with him.

As for the mods.. a situation was already reported by one of the mods that "someone" was constantly swearing in the chat room.. and quite frankly it seemed that .. that someone was doing it on purpose to bate the mods to create a situation. Bottomline, IMO no matter what filters are in place.. it is improper etiquette to swear in a live chat channel. Slip ups will happen.. thats called judgement.. as for the rest.. experience will come.. now quit your bitching or step up to the plate.

Oh yea Aveyn.. you going to the Fan Faire? - Your gonna owe me a couple drinks after this
__________________

Sobe Silvertree

Lauren if you want to quote Sobe, at least read all of what he said: Slip ups will happen.. thats called judgement.. as for the rest.. experience will come.. now quit your bitching or step up to the plate.

Whatever glasses you're wearing must have filtered out his use of "bitching" - an expression quite commonly used and most folks wouldn't have thought twice about it; but a few individuals would've made a stink about that same expression if it had been used in the chat channel.

As for the mods.. a situation was already reported by one of the mods that "someone" was constantly swearing in the chat room.. and quite frankly it seemed that .. that someone was doing it on purpose to bate the mods to create a situation.

As Sobe points out above, the problem wasn't merely the use of swear words or slang; in his example, someone was being intentionally disruptive and that was inappropriate.

This is the heart of the issue: CONTEXT. How words are used is more important than the words themselves. As a longtime administrator in a very diverse community, Sobe knows that over-moderation can be as harmful as anarchy. Not only does he encourage moderators to use common sense and judgement to determine context, he also allows mods to speak their own minds, in their own words.

I recognize (as I'm sure Sobe does) that people have different ways of expressing themselves, and one person's "bad word" is another person's everyday slang. If someone is not purposely trying to use terms in a disruptive way, there's no reason to blow a gasket... no reason to single him/her out for admonishment.

In the same light that I'd encourage people to be tolerant of how others express themselves, I'd also encourage those who do use more 'lively' words in their everyday speech to be more mindful and tolerant of those who might be offended by certain words, especially words which could be construed in a sexual context.

Like I said in a previous post, we all have different notions for what constitutes 'everyday' words. Speech is a part of diversity in a community.

Instead of expecting everyone to conform to the most conservative language, it is more reasonable to seek a middle ground upon which people are willing to respect others by avoiding words they know are most likely to offend; and for some, by showing tolerance for others whose 'everyday' words might be more risque than their own. But you will never accomplish such a middle ground with condescension or righteous indignation.

~Firemynd

Who said the channel is there for people to help one another? Far as I know, the serverwide channel was created simply as an extension of this community. Take a moment to browse the two EQ forums of TDG and you'll notice there are 14 boards, only 1 of which is titled "Help" ... the rest are for people to socialize, rant, discuss issues both game-related and off-topic.

Of those 14 boards, also notice that 6 of them (7 if you count "EQ Expansions") are primarily for compiling and storing information. Those boards serve as an extensive reference library where anyone can look up details for spells, quests, item comparisons, AA abilities... it's a vast and cumulative database covering years' worth of discussion and research. All categorized and waiting to be perused. With a search feature too!

And still, some people insist on logging into the TDG channel to ask questions that are already answered right here on these boards. I mean hey, it's not like Sobe had anything else to do with the thousands of dollars it takes to keep all that information available here, right?

Granted, we all know that every once in a while some true newbie is going to find their way into the channel and ask a question like "where can i get the best exp at level 16?" That's cute more than bothersome.

What isn't cute is when someone joins the channel and says "Hi, where are the epic NPCs in Harbingers?" -- obviously a higher level druid, someone who has been around long enough to know where to find that information, and most likely someone who has already been there but is too lazy to go back and look again.

Some of these 'more experienced' people treat the channel like a shopping mall information desk; when they burst into chat with a question, they expect a prompt and courteous reply... even when it's something that would have taken them all of 2 minutes to look up for themselves, right here on the boards reserved for that very purpose. God forbid they don't get that prompt and courteous reply. And heaven help us all if a regular member of the channel makes a snide remark about it, or uses a 'bad' word in unrelated banter.

Glynna, I won't say that you personally are the reason I don't join the TDG channel anymore, because I don't know you from Eve.

But I will say the reason I stopped joining the channel long ago was because of self-righteous people who seemed to think the channel needed more 'naughty word' monitors; people who expected the channel to be peaches and sunshine 24/7; and people who only joined the channel when they wanted a question answered (right now plztks!).

After a while, it gets tiresome hearing them turn every swear word -- usually no worse than what's on primetime network television -- into a debate about what is "appropriate" for a chat channel. Get over it. Some folks just want to hang loose after a ten hour workday, and we all have different notions for what constitutes 'everyday' words.

Read my posts here .. you'll be hard-pressed to find objectionable language in any of them. I'm just not one who happens to express myself like that. But I do recognize that others have their own ways of expressing themselves, and I'm socially mature enough to recognize the difference between harmless slang expressions and real hate speech.

y only intolerance is for overly intolerant people.

~Firemynd


I love firemynd

Also let me say this but i know people get run out because they keep asking stupid questions over and OVER. If it was a newbie, we help em out. Like for example someone was asking about his wis and gear, we help him and gladly.

HOWEVER, there are people that are 65-70 that ask stuff that (1) we have already responded to that person, (2) are extensively explained in our forums. Frankly, these people sound like Ebayers, some have even shown their knowledge of the game in these boards and yet decide to ask "stupid" stuff in the channel. How hard is it to look in these boards? And if you're in game you can ALT+ENTER out and unlock your mouse and browse. And if you can't then ask away and explain you can't alt+enter out for whatever reason. We will help you, granted don't take that as an excuse to be lazy.

About swearing ... well.. that's what the filter is for! Some people like to swear, not because they want to incomodate other people, but because that's the way they express themselves.

Firemynd, I invite you to re-read what Sobe said as well. He said there may be slips but he doesn't feel that it is proper, no matter what filters are in place to use swear words in a live chat channel. A slip doesn't mean wholesale use of swear words. I have also been talking about the way people are treated in the channel when they join to ask questions. Sobe said he was upset that people were being treated in such a way that they do not feel welcome.

If someone asks a question in the channel and you feel that you just don't want to deal with them then don't answer. It's not all that hard, in fact it's easier than saying something rude to them. If they continue to bother you than put them on ignore.

I have no idea where you are from, I know from watching interviews on the television that some Europeans are unaware that on American tv you can not say certain words while others are considered alright for a public forum. Were you watching Jay Leno on the Tonight Show you could say "bitching" and it would not get beeped, however your fight for your right, or for other's rights to say the "f" word would fall on deaf ears and it would be beeped.

The point is that the person who started this thread felt uncomfortable or unwelcomed in the channel and he/she isn't the only one who has posted the same. Sobe wants people to feel welcome there and it's his channel.

I'm really not going to continue to argue with you about what is proper behavior in public places. It is clear to me that we have very different points of vew as to how to treat people with whom we come into contact with in public. You will not change my view and I can see that your's won't be changed on this subject as well.

I included the entire quote that Sobe made so that you could see all of it. I did not pick out bits and pieces as you did in order to try to prove my point. If you read the entire post I doubt that you will come away feeling that he wants swearing or rude behavior towards visitors happening in the chat channel.

It all boils down to what people consider offensive and not. The US has a very strict way of censoring everything, but still friends curse and shout bad words wherever and/or whenever they like it. Since most of us are friends in the channel, we do that as well... like that example Firemynd provided about being in a pub or bar.

THERE are filters and ignore lists if people do not wish to hear any of this. In a bar you can't censor stuff.

Oh yea and im puertorican, and we have the same amount of censorship as the States (besides that 90% of us have cable and we see US mainland shows every night). So I know what i'm talking about.

Just /ignore and move on and turn that filter on. If people are offended by what someone says in a virtual world/game then please try to remind yourself it's a game and it's the internet, where anything can be said and done and most of the stuff in it is false and/or crap.

Nim, you would be hard pressed to shock me with words. That does not mean that I feel that the Druid's Grove chat channel is the proper place for them. What I may say to a friend or to my husband in private can be very different than what I say out in public.

And just as American culture is more uncomfortable with some words there are other cultures who are uncomfortable with far more than we are. These boards, the chat channel and the game are visited by many people of different backgrounds, beliefs and sensitivities. The best way not to offend others is simply by not using offensive language. My point is that Sobe wants everyone to feel welcomed and to feel comfortable in the chat channel. It's his chat channel after all so people should follow his wishes.

I understand that you guys have formed friendships and enjoy chatting, and hey, that's great. But several people now have made comments about it or complained about how they were treated. It just seems to me that perhaps you guys should make up your own channel to behave anyway you please in and not have to worry about what you do or say offending people.

This is so interesting though. Before the epic frenzy almost no threads were started about the channel. Now we have 3 threads here in this board. What does that mean?

Also, there are cultures - like you said - that do not take the words we label as "curses" offensively. Who are you to tell them how to chat in a game?

And we welcome everyone, people in the channel do not insult other people for just joining. People have to be really stupid or ask a dumb question for that to happen.
And even then, they might get a good answer. I don't know if people go into the channel to make others lose their patience, but there are people that sit there and ask, ask, ask, ask.... remain quiet, ask, ask, ask, ask... remain quiet. But the best are the ones that /join ask a question then /leave, repeat process from the start, like COUGH a certain someone that is posting in this same thread. Amazingly the answers to those questions are easily found here by using that handy search button.

It's like these people have taken it upon themselves to never visit these boards.

This is for the people that are in the channel or want to join it: USE ignore if you get flamed. That's it. And be happy Gallas isn't around nowadays.

Nim, I don't care how you or anyone else chats in game or in any chat channels that you and your friends start.

We are talking about the Druid's Grove chat channel, where people join because they have been invited to by Sobe (when he posted the password here on this site). Sobe started the channel for all druids to be able to join and visit, ask questions, answer questions, whatever. And as he states above it is associated with these boards and he does not want people to be treated rudely nor does he feel that swearing should happen in a live chat channel. People who do not usually post on the board, newcomers and even some long time members have stated that they will never join the channel again due to the way they were treated or due to the language used there and what it has become.

I visit this site just about daily, this is my "home" site and I care about it and the reputation that it's earned over the years as a good site to visit with mature and helpful people. I respect and appreciate what Sobe has put into it and the work he and the mods do to keep the site here for us to enjoy. He has asked for a level of respect and civility to be used in the chat channel, his chat channel. I don't know how else I can state it.

Nimchip: This is so interesting though. Before the epic frenzy almost no threads were started about the channel. Now we have 3 threads here in this board. What does that mean?

It means people who previously never bothered to participate in this community were offended when they weren't immediately treated as a regular upon entering the chat channel to ask questions that have long been answered in the forum - questions that regulars have heard ad nauseum ever since the 1.5 quest began.

Lauran: These boards, the chat channel and the game are visited by many people of different backgrounds, beliefs and sensitivities.

ost people of *my* background do not use the word "bitching" or for that matter, most of the other words which go uncensored on primetime televesion. However, I do not judge people who happen to think of such words as casual expressions.

The best way not to offend others is simply by not using offensive language.

And therein lies the "diverse backgrounds" factor that you seem to recognize when you want to chastize others for language which doesn't concur with your idea of 'acceptable' ... but you ignore diversity completely when it comes to accepting the plain simple fact that some people do not consider certain words as offensive, and if read in context of their usage, they obviously mean no offense.

It is clear to me that we have very different points of vew as to how to treat people with whom we come into contact with in public.

Actually, it sounds like you and I treat people in public with very much the same approach; neither of us would use slang to address and communicate with people we don't know.

The difference between us is our levels of tolerance, and the degree to which we understand that most people have more liberal views of what consitutes acceptable language in a casual/social setting such as a chat channel in a game.

And apparently, you and Sobe would disagree to some extent on what "swearing" means... so perhaps you should seek clarification before trying to enforce rules in his 'house'...

~Firemynd

Who are you anyhow Lauran? Never ever see you in chat...so what business of yours is it? If you don't have a vested interest in the matter then why don't you find somewhere else to poke your nose.

Point in fact, we do have another channel that is used on the side. People in DG that pop in and ask questions out of laziness get yelled at still. And good riddance to them if they get offended, they can read the boards like everyone else. Theres a world of difference between asking for advice and asking to be handed strats/walkthroughs and so forth.

Those that ask for honest advice pretty much always get an answer....and who do you think answers them 99% of the time? The same people you're complaining about! :wstupid:

Interesting... I read this thread and i think... wow this channel must simply be swimming with eccentric egos that get excercised 4 times a minute.

And then I remember... oh wait - I've been joining the last week or so daily and its not really that bad of a place :D

This thread really isn't giving an accurate representation of the channel at all. Both sides of this discussion seem to be painting the channel in a very poor light, and thats just not how things really are. If you join the channel you aren't going to see a constant barrage of foul language or belittlement - sure its there - but on a MUCH smaller scale than the visual I get by reading this post. Don't let these warhorses scare you off.

I realize there are good people still in the channel ( I presume ) just not as many as there used to be since the loss of many to eq2 and wow.

I really haven't been back to the channel though. I heard some classes have TS set up. Is there one for druids?

ost likely we all have bad days and maybe this was one of those. I had merely said hi in channel twice and got no reply which is ok maybe everyone was raiding. My guild was one hit with people leaving to eq2 and WoW so my raiding days are over till I find another guild :) . Maybe my frustrations with the game had me in a bad moment.

Since I got no reply I asked about an item I found that was no drop and got the "thats so six months ago" reply. Well OoW hasn't been out 6 months and a simple answer would have been more appropriate.

I'm not one to carry a grudge though.

A grudge is a defensive mechanism, sometimes manifested in avoiding interactions with a specific individual who would otherwise irritate the living daylights out of us; so it *can* serve a useful purpose. ;)

As with most things, however, when a grudge is taken to an extreme it can do more harm than good. E.g. if you stop visiting a place altogether because one person you dislike happens to go there, or if you make it your personal mission to turn others against that person, or if you find yourself seeking the person out just to argue with them .... in those extremes, a grudge keeps you from enjoying something that would otherwise be a fun and positive activity.

I think we have all allowed ourselves to carry a grudge to an extreme at one time or another, whether it was in a forum or guild or chat channel or whatever. But when we find ourselves agitated by a person, if we'd take a moment to reflect back on similar situations in the past and remember the consequences to which they led, we'd probably make more of an effort not to fall into the same pattern again ... well, at least not as often. :bonk:

~Firemynd