One of the most discouraging things about the new Omens expansion is the fact that spells are extremely hard to come by. It seems with each expansion spells are becoming rarer to obtain. Spells have never played a more important role to the caster/hybrid class then they do in Omens as many abilities like Harmony, Stun, etc. are level capped in previous incarnations of the spell line. Therefore obtaining the Omens upgrades is a must if you are to carry out your role. Melee classes are not hampered by level caps as melee damage scales quite well unlike many caster spells.

The problems with Omens spells drops are the following:

1) spells only dropped from named mobs
2) all named do not drop spells
3) extremely low spell drop rate


Spells Only Dropped From Named Mobs

I believe this system is flawed as it encourages the farming of certain named locations. For example on my play server there 7 distinct static locations where named mobs can spawn in Wall of Slaughter zone. These are now perma-farmed and monopolized by guilds and plat farmers that can command anywhere from 80-100k for these runes in the bazaar. These named locations are fiercely guarded by the professional farmers and the uberguilds. Quite simply they will KS and train you if you get even near their "camps". Most of these named spots are just north of the castle in Wall of Slaughter.

The average and casual player has no chance at all of getting runes from any of these camps and must resort to farming other zones to amass plat to pay for them or turn to Yantis to purchase plat. While the named in the south end of the zone are more random in location as most mobs there are roamers, most named are pulled quickly by players who use ShowEQ and MacroQuest. Having spells only on drop on named mobs penalizes those of us who don't use illegal program to locate and track named mobs.

Another problem with SOE putting spells only on named is that this creates a funnel effect which literally forces players who need spells to come to Wall of Slaughter and create an overcrowded zone. Bloodfields, Ruined City of Dranik and other zones are empty which is a shame.

Solutions:

-add spell drop table to random mobs as was done in every expansion from PoP and earlier


All Named Do Not Drop Spells

It's bad enough that there is fierce competition for names spawns without killing one and only looting "girplan meat" and no spells. Every expansion from PoP and earlier always had mobs drop spells *and* loot.

Named mobs that are defeatable by one group in zones below Wall of Slaughter such as Bloodfields and Dranik's Scar do not drop spells ever. Many of these mobs are not pushovers as they summon. This is just plain wrong and unfair.

Solutions:

-SOE should put a guaranteed spell drop on every named mob just as they did in PoP and previous expansions.

-put spell drops on all named mobs throughout Omens not just a few select zones which encourages overcamping, farming and overpopulation


Extremely Low Spell Drop Rate

One of the biggest problems in Omens is the very low spell drop rate on named mobs. I've found that the items/spells ratio is about 7:1 and that is if you are lucky enough to snag a named mob. Our group in WoS last evening spent a total of 6 hours and got 3 named. Out of those 3 named we got 0 spells. That was a total of 36 person hours spent killing every mob in sight and no spells for our trouble. That is completely unacceptable. Most evenings we are lucky to get 2 spells for our group in a 6 hour period--if we are lucky.

Our average group consists of 2 casters, 1 healer, 2 hybrids, 1 melee. Most classes require anwhere from 18 spells to 34 spells from levels 66-70. If our group averages 2 spells per evening. Let's say that each class needs 20 spells on average and the 1 melee class will need 4 runes for their discs.

20 x 5 = 100
4 x 1 = 4
--------------
total 104

104 spells (runes) divided by 2 = 54 days or 324 hours

This means that an average group will have to play 6 hours per day in WoS for 54 days in order to get full spell Omens books. We also know that the level 70 and Ancient spells will only be available on raid mobs and/or in the final locked zone. The average player who needs spells will not be able to play 6 hours per day nor will they always be guaranteed to get a named "camp" therefore the projected time for a complete Omens spell book could be 6 months or even longer.

Solutions:

-increase the spell drop rate as players should not have to wait till the Apocalypse to get their Omens spells

-ensure that named spawn are random and spawn in more then one spot as was done in LoY expansion

-put 1 spell from each level for each class available on a vendor

-create an alternate quest system that allows average to casual players a chance to scribe spells

-expand research to include GoD and Omens spells


The Omens expansion is still new yet I am hearing from many players about how rare spells are and how the new system is unfair. Spells should be obtainable by normal groups who have normal play times. Nobody should have to resort to buying plat for dollars from Yantis just so they can purchase a much needed spell for their class. Nodody should get trained and KSed by professional farmers and uberguilds just because spells are obscenely rare.

Please SOE do something to ensure that spells are easier to obtain.

Some named mobs have a higher than 1-in-7 rune drop rate. Try zones other than Wall of Slaughter for runes.
You could also try places like the instanced Dranik's Hollows zones where you won't face any competition...

I've gotten 8 of my spells so far, all either solo or as a duo with my enchanter.

Some named mobs have a higher than 1-in-7 rune drop rate. Try zones other than Wall of Slaughter for runes.
You could also try places like the instanced Dranik's Hollows zones where you won't face any competition...

I've gotten 8 of my spells so far, all either solo or as a duo with my enchanter.
What can druids solo in OoW that drop runes?

Ridgerunner Drunt and an ukun packmaster in Nobles' Causeway are the easiest ones I can think of. Both hit for about 500 and summon, but they aren't too tough otherwise. Try root dotting, especially if you have Vengeance of Tunare from LDoN, and healing yourself as needed. Being hit once every 10 seconds shouldn't be too bad. Ornate legs help quite a bit here, as they let you root during spell recast times, so you can nuke and reroot within a single summon cycle. Leading with root and debuffing ahead of time (and landing dots with long cast times like the original epic) before the summoning starts at 96% helps as well.

The named mobs in the Dranik's Hollows instances seemed pretty easy too--they're also summoners that hit for around 500--though you may need two other people to be able to request the expedition initially.

Sorry Wolfshead but I disagree with you over the availiability of runes for spells in OOW.

As for WoS being heavily camped its one zone, you cannot blame SoE for the actions of certain players and / or guilds in this one zone, especially when there are other options availiable to all. On Saryrn WoS is mainly FFA for the whole zone, if your puller is fast you will see some named but not all regardless of which camp you claim. I see this as fun rather than anything else, good natured competition that I do not take seriously the old addage "you win some you lose some" holds true. Lets also not forget the loot that drops from these mobs even if no rune happens to drop, use the proceeds to buy runes and you have not lost anything have you?

With the instanced zones from Draniks Scar already mentioned in this thread it is possible to duo at least one of these instances for runes (minor, lesser and muramite) I have done it with myself and almost any other class will work, I have duo'd there with a rogue and an enchanter. Jumping past the instanced zones there are also many named camps inside PG that can yield runes and any reasonable group can hunt there. Seems to me that you have jumped on the "its too hard to get spells bandwagon" without even really examining the other options.

Personally I have gathered runes from the instanced zones, WoS, PG and RS and I have not been to all of the other locations where runes reportedly drop. I have also participated in a two group event to kill a named in Causeway that always drops two greater runes. After buying two more runes in the bazaar my spell list for OOW is looking pretty healthy, other than level 70 spells and even those will come in time I am sure.

All in all I see no reason for complaint on spell rune drops, go out there and try the other options you might even be pleasantly surprised.

On Saryrn WoS is mainly FFA for the whole zone, if your puller is fast you will see some named but not all regardless of which camp you claim.

It sounds like your server isn't plagued with farmers who use SEQ or other anti-EULA software to find named mobs the instant they appear; farmers who are plant SoS rogues or FD monks at the exact position of static spawns and train those who would dare to come near "their" camps; farmers for whom these mobs represent real-life dollars because each item/rune they collect is sold to Yantis, effectively removing that item from the game world and making it available only to players who are willing to purchase it for real money.

I'm happy for ya.

But for those of us on servers where the above sorts of farming are rampant, Sony is turning a blind eye instead of responding. If GMs took one hour per day to investigate and monitor players whose names have been reported numerous times; even if the use of 3rd party software couldn't be proven, they could at least action those players for the obvious stuff, like KSing and intentionally training groups who threaten to pull from their cash cow area.

I see this as fun rather than anything else, good natured competition that I do not take seriously the old addage "you win some you lose some" holds true.

There is nothing "good-natured" about it when your "competition" comes from people who are able to win EVERY time because they cheat. There is nothing "good-natured" about being denied a fair chance to "win" right up until Sony performs its *routine nerf of drop rates within a few weeks after release. Thereafter, those who had to wait patiently for the farmers to leave, will now need to kill ten times as many mobs to see the same number of rewards as SEQ folks did.

*routine nerf of drop rates: happens after every expansion release, usually in phases. So far in OoW, this has occurred in Dranik's Scar, DS expeditions, and Bloodfields. And if it hasn't already happened within the past couple days, you can expect named spawn timers in WoS and MPG to be reduced soon, as well, their loot tables 'adjusted' to make runes and better items more rare than they have been.

Unfortunately, Sony apparently does not care because those farmers are "paying customers" and their illicit activities are not obvious enough to other players such that they cause significant backlash. What Sony doesn't consider when nerfing drop rates, is that most of the benefit from initial drop rates went to farmers.

Even more unfortunately, most 'solutions' on the backend of design (randomizing spawn points, increasing mob difficulty beyond single-groupable, etc), would penalize all players, not just cheaters.

The most viable solution would be direct monitoring and intervention by GMs, and that isn't going to happen because it simply wouldn't be cost-effective for SOE. Same reason I also wouldn't expect SOE to implement some form of encryption for server-client data to curtail packet parsers such as SEQ.

And frankly, I am not convinced that Yantis isn't compensating a few folks at SOE.

~Firemynd

Not really Fire.

It just depends on whether your Server is FFA or Camped Mentality.

Remember, Camps are NOT supported by GMs. So if a mob is unagroed (hi Target of Target) and you cast on it, its yours.

If you are KS/Trained as a result. I suggest everyone in your group report/petition. Repeatedly. Make GMs come to WOS and sit there and watch training/ksing.

Of course, sad thing is it usually takes volumes of complaints to get a GM response.

There is always the eye-for-eye approach. If someone trains you, train them back. Sooner or later the bully will realize losing the named to FFA, is less loss than losing thier camp/downtime from a wipe from a retailatory train.

Personally, wide open outdoor zones are not friendsly to camp mentality. As too many groups set up and just pull outwards, and overlap.

usually in phases. So far in OoW, this has occurred in Dranik's Scar, DS expeditions, and Bloodfields. And if it hasn't already happened within the past couple days, you can expect named spawn timers in WoS and MPG to be reduced soon, as well, their loot tables 'adjusted' to make runes and better items more rare than they have been. [/I]I think it has happened. In the past 2 days, I have gotten about a 20% rune drop from rune-bearing named in WoS and MPG, whereas prior to that it was more like 80%.

I agree that runes were way too common prior to the nerf, since named spawn alll the time and the entire rune market was crashing, but nerfing them to a rare drop is going too far. Thankfully, PvV doctrine teaches us to harvest the drops early on, while they're still good. <img src=http://lag9.com/biggrin.gif>

During the first week of OoW there were more named mobs in WoS than there were yard trash. It was quite common for a named mob to spawn 3 times in a row rather than the placeholder.

It reminded me of the simpsons episode with the buffalo.

Its impossible for 1 or 2 groups to take every named mob in the zone. If you take the area immediately north of the wall in WoS there are at least 10 place holders I know of (and I'm sure I dont know them all too). It would take at least 3 groups to cover all of these and prevent anyone else getting them.

There are 3 caves, each with named in, so another 3 groups would be needed probably 5 as they are quite spread out inside the nw and ne caves. Then theres the area near MPG and the whole area south of the wall (I dont know that area too well). If there are really that many Yantis farmers that you cannot at least find a single camp in WoS then its time to move servers.

Thats not to even mention the instanced zones.

I agree WoS has become the home for some of the worst players on any given server to gather and train the ZI. But I find it hard to believe a competant group cant setup there and camp some spells.

If there are really that many Yantis farmers that you cannot at least find a single camp in WoS then its time to move servers.

I'm sitting here wondering how out-of-touch with reality one must be to suggest that players (and their friends, guildies, etc.) should pay transfer fees and switch servers just to have a fair chance of getting named mobs in WoS.

As for instanced zones -- already been nerfed to hell and back. I suppose folks whose real life schedules kept them from spending those first few pre-nerf weeks farming instances for spells, are just outta luck. But hey, it's like that after every expansion and that makes it OK, right?

~Firemynd

I'm sitting here wondering how out-of-touch with reality one must be to suggest that players (and their friends, guildies, etc.) should pay transfer fees and switch servers just to have a fair chance of getting named mobs in WoS.

If your server really is plagued by that much plat-farming, which I doubt (you make it sound like its the dominating activity on your server), then you need to consider your options. The most obvious is to switch zone. MPG is one frikkin zone, there are others, some instanced.

As for instanced zones -- already been nerfed to hell and back.

Totally untrue. In fact, many members of my guild have switched from MPG/Wos farming to instanced zone farming. This is as of today and the last few days.

Before making wild statements like this you might wanna check your facts.

Callahad

OOW is leaps and bounds better than GoD or even PoP for that matter in terms of getting spells. Personally I have nearly 15 spells, and it's been what.. three weeks? And FYI none of these were received from my guild.

you cannot blame SoE for the actions of certain players and / or guilds in this one zone
I disagree. You can indeed blame them for the absolutely predictable results which stem from poor design decisions. The same thing happens *every* other time that rare mobs are the only ones that drop loot. To excuse them this time for making the exact same mistake, with the inevitable consequences, is not logical.

Totally untrue. In fact, many members of my guild have switched from MPG/Wos farming to instanced zone farming. This is as of today and the last few days.
Then they missed the boat. They have indeed been nerfed. If your guildies have only just now caught on to them, then they were slow or just not telling you. In fact there was some discussion on SOE's official boards about it.

http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=38481#M38481

Zajeer-Dev
EQ Designer
Posts: 64
Registered: 03-26-2004
Server: Test
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I haven't looked into this and I'm not aware of a change to the instance's named spawn rates or not, however I have to comment briefly about the design of instances in general. Generally speaking, instances will not have rare spawning NPCs, or loot, coming into the world faster than a non-instanced zone. As it stands, instances already bring more items into the world faster, and making rare spawns spawn more often in instances is bad design. Players already receive many benefits from hunting in an instance compared to a static zone, such as no-competition for named spawns, no-competition for common base pop NPCs, as well as not having to deal with other people's trains. If the original poster's claims were correct, then 2-4 nameds per hour is grossly overbalanced compared to static zones and 1-2 nameds every 3-4 hours seems more in-line with what static zone rare occurances happen.

Also, EverQuest is a dynamic game. All aspects of this game can and will change monthly to ensure that the game remains balanced and fun to play in. If instances were spawning too many rares per hour, then yes, they will be changed and adjusted to what the correct design is for the expansion. To claim that we continually bait and switch each expansion is futile; adjustments are made to the game after an expansion release that are upgrades, however those aren't usually mentioned or remembered by the players. We don't do this on purpose to lure you into buying the expansion, so to claim so is an unfair assessment of what the team is trying to accomplish with this game.

Edit: I'll look into the spawn rates of rares in all Omens instances tomorrow to make sure they are comparable to what the rare spawn rates are in static zones.
Message Edited by Zajeer-Dev on 09-29-2004 11:40 PM


-Zajeer

Before making wild statements like this you might wanna check your facts.
I love when people say this without actually checking the facts themselves.

And the next day, the instances all came down. In addition to him "tuning" the spawn rate of the rares, the nameds also no longer drop spell runes at lower dungeon levels.

To say OoW is better than GoD for spell drops is silly... completely different situations. As for better than PoP... well I wouldnt say that either. One of the nice things about PoP was that spells could drop off any critter. I've not seen a single spell drop off of any but a named mob in OoW. So there was always a chance in PoP that you'd come across a spell drop during regular hunting without having to race the farmers to some named mob. Of course, spell drops were nerfed shortly after PoP's release too, so again there's nothing new there.

I'm not saying that OoW isnt better than GoD in many respects. But that's like saying getting punched in the nose is better than being stuffed in a potato sack and beaten with bats.

OOW is leaps and bounds better than GoD or even PoP for that matter in terms of getting spells. Personally I have nearly 15 spells, and it's been what.. three weeks?
You are telling other people that OoW is great because YOU had no problems? Well... that's just swell for you. That doesnt mean that others dont have legitimate issues, and it's incredibly arrogant to imply that everyone else must be wrong or lazy just because you've had good luck.

I also have a problem with the spell drops of OoW. The issue of 'perma-camped' mobs, players farming for RL cash, or whatever, really cheeses me off.

I have joined WoS groups, seen runes drops (1), and saw it go to a WARRIOR who ALREADY had all of his discs! Why? JUST because he rolled high! The ONLY thing he could do with it was sell it. HE HAD HIS 'SPELLS' ALREADY!

This is wrong. I havn't received a rune yet, and spent WAY too many hours at the wall. Died approx 30x+ and got nothing for it. Even the exp su....is not good.

I have a simple solution. No-drop CLASS only loots. You MUST be a druid in order to loot a druid rune, wiz for wizzy, etc. Once you have a full spell book YOU CAN'T LOOT ANYMORE. Lose the tradable runes. Keep greedy peeps from ruining the game experience by taking the tools you NEED so they can twink out a level 1 whatever with a selo's horse.

As for guilds camping the mobs and training folks? Let em. They are ruining their own reputation by doing this. They are limiting thier own future. Peeps who do that ALWAYS end paying for it, sooner or later. But, HEY! wth! Lets toss a GM into WoS and have them ACTUALLY monitor the zone! Just for giggles. You never know, they MIGHT just learn something! (like who the screaming asshats are)

I also don't have any GoD spells. Spent time there, never saw a rune drop. NEVER! With such horrible drop rates it's NO WONDER peeps hate Gates of Discord! Another brilliant move, Sony!

These actions by Sony can only be seen as further contempt for the paying customer. I PAID for the expansion, now GIVE me the tools to play it! (however, Sony is in the business to KEEP you PAYING, not give you your money's worth)

Perhaps, long after everyone has left OoW I'll be able to get the runes...oh wait..nope...mobs summon so I won't be able to solo there. OOOPS! oh well, another unplayable expansion!

Hey Sony! Are you FINALLY figuring this out?

Been hunting in OoW exclusivley since it came out. I have TWO spell and my wife has none. We spent 4 hours in an instance last night and got one named with NO rune on it. woo hoo - such fun.

I'll grant you that it is better than god, but i now have 6 spells total and 3 of those were from guild raids. Only level 65 runes in pop were comparable in difficulty to getting spells in oow. I haven't seen anything yet that drops oow runes in the quantities of the pop ep raids like vine ring or fenin. The level 66-68 spells are already much harder to get than ethereals and spectrals and unless there is some better means than killing minis in wos or farming mpg/rs endlessly for the 69-70 runes i'd say those are even worse than pop 65's.

if you actually go to play in Riftseeker, the spell dro p rate is TERRIBLE. 1 in 7 sounds about right for lv 69 spells. lv 70 is more like 1 in 30

on top of that, you need a 10k hp tank there, u need someone to mez (which means 3 69 runes or 2 70 runes for enc or bard) if you dont wan t to stay in the same room forever, or someone to split mob for u.

Thanks Tiane. You pretty much nailed it on the head. )

Just a few notes...
In addition to him "tuning" the spawn rate of the rares, the nameds also no longer drop spell runes at lower dungeon levels.

This is what I was referring to by mentioning that instances had been nerfed; this thread, after all, is about spell drops.

And let's also clarify that "lower level dungeons" are those which are obtained when a 66-67th level character requests an expedition. What this means, in essence, is that the game no longer directly provides zone instances in which you can obtain spells appropriate for your level. As of 9-30, you may only get your 66-67th spells in instanced zones after you've leveled to 68+ (or by finding groups in which the leaders are higher level).

Sorry, but that just isn't logical.

Zone instances should provide an appropriate degree of challenge for the level of the participating characters, but should also provide an appropriate loot table. OoW not providing adequate means for 66-67th level characters to obtain their spells makes no more sense than when we were getting "Recommended level: 55" items from an LDoN high difficulty mission assigned to a full group of 65th level characters.

PoP came very close to delivering an ideal system for spell acquisition.
1. parchments dropped from a wide variety of un-named mobs in lower tier zones, making it possible for players to get their spells at (or before) they were of level to scribe. Usually, those mobs were the higher mobs in their respective zones, but they weren't necessarily special, rare, or named.
2. parchments were not specific to classes, making it possible for any caster in a group or raid to have a fair chance of benefitting from a drop, regardless of his/her class.
3. parchments were not tradeable, which restricted 'lottery' sales (i.e. buy this rune and get a chance for the spell you need).
4. parchment turn-ins yielded spells randomly, which indirectly provided a market for selling and trading all spells for all classes.

If PoP's parchment system had been implemented in a way to prevent duplicates, casters would have been able to complete their spellbooks without as much frustration; and there would have still been a viable market from spells obtained by meleers who won them to sell, and by casters who already had their ethereal/spectral/glyphed spells.

~Firemynd

I think the spell drop system is out of whack right now also. It seems like the spell drop rate was nerfed off named mobs in some of the zones like PG, but that could have just been the random number generator being kind the first few times we killed stuff in PG. Additionally, the few good spots to really get your spells like the spot in Ruined City is typically perma-camped. That one spot has many named able to spawn within a small area, but most areas aren't like that with usually only 1 (or 0) named in the general area (ie, too concentrated in some zones, not enough overall in others). So the chance that you do get the named mob, most likely he wont be dropping the spell, or when he does you have to roll against 5 others and pray that you get more to drop. Wall of Slaughter was rather ridiculous the first few days of release and I agree with the reduction in named mob spawn rate, but the chance to drop a spell needs to be really upped. As for Riftseekers, I really havent had a chance to get a good idea about the drop rate, but I never saw any spell drops, just items.

Finally, what's the deal with level 66 spells? They seem to be the rarest around with level 68 being the most common (level 68 spells dropping in price quite a bit). It probably has to do with mob level we are fighting nowdays - so is the main place to get level 66 spells are the instanced zones? I think they should just change level 66 spells to have a rare random chance to drop off any mob in specific zones (ruined city, WoS, PG, etc). Kinda funny that in the bazaar level 66 spells go for the most money.

I have a simple solution. No-drop CLASS only loots. You MUST be a druid in order to loot a druid rune, wiz for wizzy, etc. Once you have a full spell book YOU CAN'T LOOT ANYMORE. Lose the tradable runes. Keep greedy peeps from ruining the game experience by taking the tools you NEED so they can twink out a level 1 whatever with a selo's horse.

Did we learn nothing from GoD?

You are telling other people that OoW is great because YOU had no problems? Well... that's just swell for you. That doesnt mean that others dont have legitimate issues, and it's incredibly arrogant to imply that everyone else must be wrong or lazy just because you've had good luck.

No, I'm telling them that because the spells are easier to come by, quite simply. I put in some research, spent some time and some work, and I have several spells to show for it. All but two of these I got by myself. I have some Time equipment, but I know most druids can solo this content, and ALL druids 60+ can duo it. If that's still not easy enough to get spells, I don't know what is. Maybe they should just put them on vendors at outrageous prices, I guess that's the only thing that would be "fair" in some people's opinions.

In GoD there were some spells that were soloable (I think) but they were so hard to get to, and were nerfed shortly after release I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong. Here's the fact though, I've spent a lot of time both raiding and exping in GoD. I have one spell.

PoP was a bit better, but those drops off of random mobs was very incredibly rare.. maybe once every 200 mobs or so. The frequency of named in OOW makes the spells much more common.

Mark my words, within three months all droppable OOW runes will be under 20k.

EDIT: Besides the spells that I have gotten, I've given away at least 5 and seen several others go to other people when I lost the roll. If you guys are spending this much time in OOW without any spells, you're just going about things the wrong way. See my post in Quests and Strats.

I know that 69 spells have dropped two at a time every time off mini named in NC that are 2-3 groupable. These mobs are almost always up and never killed. I haven't seen any 70s yet so I can't speak from experience there.

Class only no drop spells were a horrible disaster in GoD. The chance that just the right spell you need drops on the mob is not very good. More often than not such stuff rots.

Then they missed the boat. They have indeed been nerfed.

Wrong. They have been put to where they should be, which is entirely different from being nerfed. The fact is, getting an instance for rune farming is perfectly viable, and is certainly as attractive as non-instanced zones.

Callahad

Namer spawn rate was ninja fixed the other day - they are not nearly as common as they were in NC. In addtion the Instance trials in DS were nerfed as well. I havent checked some of the lower zone random namers to see if they're worth the time since.

GoD spells were never soloable. Well, that might not be true - I cant confirm whether Riwwi names pre-nerf (werent summoning) were dropping spells. I only ever heard of gear dropping.

Wrong. They have been put to where they should be, which is entirely different from being nerfed.

Lol... ok. How exactly is it entirely different other than point of view? Well I'm not going to engage in a battle of semantics. You can call it what you like. Obviously in your world, unpleasant unnecessary things just dont happen. Whether or not you want to use the term "nerf", you DO know what it means. The fact that you have to qualify it by simply spinning what actually happened shows that you are simply unable to admit that the change was a negative one in the opinion of the overwhelming majority. But to say "NO THERE WAS NO NERF" and then to say "THERE WAS JUST A NEGATIVE ADJUSTMENT" and insist that they are completely different things is pretty hilarious.

I never heard of anyone getting a spell Solo in GoD. Yeah, people abused the instances to get an increased chance of spawning spell-droppers, but it still took a few people to actually go get them. I suppose it is possible that someone managed a Scirocco-esque feat of solo prowess, but it wasnt advertised and certainly not the norm by any means.

And yes, imho spells should be on vendors... for cheap. Just like it was originally in EQ for the vast majority of spells. It certainly didnt hurt the lifespan of the game, now, did it?

And let's also clarify that "lower level dungeons" are those which are obtained when a 66-67th level character requests an expedition. What this means, in essence, is that the game no longer directly provides zone instances in which you can obtain spells appropriate for your level. As of 9-30, you may only get your 66-67th spells in instanced zones after you've leveled to 68+ (or by finding groups in which the leaders are higher level).


Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but the way I'm interpreting this is that an expedition requested by a 66 or 67 will yeild named that do not drop 66-68 runes. If so, then I'd have to disagree. I just recently, as of two nights ago, begun three boxing the two named spawns in Murkgliders Hive with a 66 ranger, 66 enchanter and a 67 druid. After a couple unfortunate accidents to the ranger, and only really camping the named for about 3 hours total, I came out with a 66 and 68 rune and a few other miscellaneous loots. Granted, named spawns seemed a bit weak, but no more so than say Droga or Guk or some such. So far, a better return for me spell-wise than GoD where I haven't seen a single one.

~Tren

Yeah, I saw a level 66 rune drop from a named in a dungeon requested by a level 67 player this weekend.

The "lower level dungeon" fix refers to the lvl 50-55 instances. What used to happen is a lvl 50 alt would request an instance and the lvl 65+ would farm it quite easily for the 66+ rune drops.

That makes more sense, and should have been fixed. They way it was stated made it sound as if you needed to get a 68 to request a dungeon that would drop runes. :)

~Tren

Spell drops nerfed was a given. After 4 years of bait and switch everyone knows the standard of an expansion release is farm farm farm before they cut drop rates in half or worse. Zajeer's explantion is nothing more then what we already know, and frankly it's why the fab 3 of rytan, rasheer and zajeer are a collective joke to the playerbase. Only problem is at least their predecessors had some style about it, these guys have none.

This is from the mage board, and is QUITE fitting.
http://anduran.customer.netspace.net.au/soebugpolicy.JPG

Don't own GoD or OoW, looks like I may not bother for awhile now. Kinda figured they'd mess or "nerf" the drops. Is it my imagination or do they seem to do this faster in the last 2 or 3 expansions? As for the kos'ers and people perma camping or just training people out of their way, I can live with out that BS. My guild leader was in a group at Walls of Slaughter that had the train thing happen to them, cost him 5 or so deaths total. Can we get public executions put into the game for jackarses that do this? In my book this kind of conduct should have zero tollerance.

Did an instanced zone with guild last night. 4 hrs of killing named and no runes.. Since they haven't been nerfed I guess that was just our bad luck.

Of the three expeditions we have done lately we have had one minor rune drop. A lot of groups want the runes to go to the MT and cleric first (NBG) which I found really rude and would not agree to.

Pickup groups are even worse with more greed and pettiness than before.

Nobles' Causeway is still relatively empty on my server (certainly much less busy than places like Wall of Slaughter, and at night I'm sometimes the only person in the zone). I'm up to 11 runes now, all from here. I have noticed that the rune drops seem to have shifted more towards the tougher named mobs--the ones that I generally have to 2-box seem to drop a rune almost every time now, while the rest don't seem to drop runes very often (if at all) anymore.

A guildmate managed to get a full set of runes last weekend from the instanced zones. I wonder what he's doing differently...

God, I feel this pain.

3 years of playing and I get my wizard to 65. Wait, not 65. 66!!

But I have a tiny guild. I can't 2-box. I can solo, though I like companionship. I popped over to Dranik's to see what the new zone looked like (nice!) Heard some of the horror stories of WoS. Well, I'm willing to give it a try, but I'm not a desperately-needed group class, so /lfg comes hard. And I haven't gotten invited to the new zones yet.

I could make my own group..but from what I'm hearing, regarding the training, the moaning, I'm going to wait for some of the frenzy to die down and hope for the best.

I just don't feel very hopeful.

Seems to me that Sony are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't after reading this thread it seems to me regardless of how they decided upon spell acquisition inside OOW there would be those unhappy with the result.

I look at this thread and wonder exactly what else SoE could have done, they create a diverse amount of options or locations where it is possible runes can drop, they create WoS a zone where it is obvious the farmers and abusers will gather and yet given the other options open to us all we are still not happy. Personally I am glad WoS exists in the format it currently does, because it largely means all of the scum described inside this thread tend to be gathered in the one location, freeing up all the others as better places to be.

We wanted an expansion without keys and flags SoE gave us pretty much what we wanted, zones like WoS are the price we pay for that. We all know that nerfs happen after the first few weeks of a new expansion and that these nerfs start in the easier to get to (or lower difficulty zones) zones first and slowly reach upto all of the content, so why are we upset at it? At least this time we all had a chance to benefit from the drops whilst they were available.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that I expect and am willing to accept a certain level of greed and bull**** inside EQ, WoS and those who aggressively farm there as described by Firemynd back on page one are part and parcel of what I expect regardless of how certain aspects of any expansion are released (remember charmed pets and named in BoT anyone?). The farmers and abusers are not unresourceful people, therefore whatever and however any expansion is released they will find some way to do what it is they do. Faulting the entire system of spell acquisition based on the fact that these individuals ruin a single zone for some servers to me is simply not logical.

And yes, imho spells should be on vendors... for cheap. Just like it was originally in EQ for the vast majority of spells. It certainly didnt hurt the lifespan of the game, now, did it?
Tiane you are right in what you say that the original spells were largely available and it did not hurt the game's lifespan back then, but now is a different game and something earned or won is worth more than something given. At this point SoE are attempting to keep create ways to keep the game interesting by creating goals for us all, obtaining spells is only one such goal. The thrill of obtaining my spells through my own actions (or the actions of my group/raid) is worth far more in having earned that magic than simply passing over a few coppers to a merchant.

Let me try to explain further, over the last two weeks myself and a group of guildies have tried one of the MPG trials, first time we zoned in started the trial and got killed we CR'd in around 10 mins but were determined to try again. The next time we had talked about things to try and what possibly might be the answer to the strategy involved, we learned more and got the named involved to 90% before wiping. Attempt three, we refined our strategy from what we had learned and got him to 3%, final attempt we nailed his ass with 90 seconds left on the 15 minute timer. This is one of the things I have had the most fun doing in ages in EQ, why? Because it was all done without spoilers, largely by the same group in the four attempts and when we one I felt a real sense of achievement and fun.

Obtaining my spells and filling my spell book will be another success and hopefully I will feel a sense of achievement in doing so, it may take me a long time, or I might be really lucky and get them faster than I anticipate, but by simply buying my spells from a vendor would cheat me of that feeling. Do I want all my spells? yes of course I do, do I hate having to target buff my guild at raids with Steeloak because I don't have the group version, yes its a pain in the butt, but it only makes it that much sweeter when I do not have to do it that way.

I hope that this time I have made myself clear, I want everything! But I do not want to be given it, I want to earn it but at the same time I want to have a fair chance of success at doing so, in regards to getting my spells in OOW I believe in time I will get them. This thought applies to everyone else as well, not only do I want to succeed but I want my friends, guildies and even EQ players I do not know to enjoy the game and succeed (by this I mean have fun since thats the point) at the goals inside of EQ even if they do not consider them the same way I do.

I seem to have wandered a little way from the original point of this thread but coming back to it, I do believe that SoE has not strayed too erratically this time with their system for us to obtain spells in OOW, this opinion may change in the future but for myself as of now I have no problem with it, even if it means I have to wait for some of my spells. That I seem to have had a different experience to others who have posted here is why I am willing to admit my opinion may change, if it turns out I happen to have been one of the lucky ones thus far and the majority are as others portray then I will agree that something needs to be changed.

Until then I must be right obviously!

Thankfully, PvV doctrine teaches us to harvest the drops early on, while they're still good.

Preach On!

Lol... ok. How exactly is it entirely different other than point of view? Well I'm not going to engage in a battle of semantics. You can call it what you like. Obviously in your world, unpleasant unnecessary things just dont happen. Whether or not you want to use the term "nerf", you DO know what it means. The fact that you have to qualify it by simply spinning what actually happened shows that you are simply unable to admit that the change was a negative one in the opinion of the overwhelming majority. But to say "NO THERE WAS NO NERF" and then to say "THERE WAS JUST A NEGATIVE ADJUSTMENT" and insist that they are completely different things is pretty hilarious.

You are missing the obvious, but then I shouldnt be surprised. A nerf is something that was intended, but was found to be undesirable later on, and was toned down.

What happened here was something that was NOT intended, and changed to something that was intended. Let's call it a bug.

It totally changes how you look at things. If you believe in a nerf, then you will scream bloody murder, how SoE wants to screw us over, how you used to be able to do that and now your class is toned down, how this and that zone used to be SO much better, blah blah blah, ie the same BS you see in this thread.

If you believe in a bug, then you realize that you profitted from an unintended benefit for a few days, look at how things are when the bug is corrected, and see that the zone(s) still has value, the game is more balanced, etc.

Nerf: OLD is how it should be, NOW is bad.
Bug : OLD was too good, NOW is as it should be.

/shrug given your frame of mind, I'm not surprised you can't see the difference.

Callahad

BS Callahad. SOE isn't full of morons. Are they incapable of being learning entities? Did they not realize that EVERY expansion before OoW was marked by HIGH drops rates which were later lowered? Is it mere conincidence that EVERY class board was saying "Get the drops before they tune them down!". Do they make the same mistake over and over and over? No. They make high drop rates to get people into the expansion and then NERF the drops. It's what they always do. It's their mode of operation. Why? Because they do it every time. All evidence points to a "pattern of behavior", which defines intention and thus NERF. But we all know this and accept it because that's just the way it is.

It's classic "bait and switch", and since SOE is run by marketers, accountants and lawyers, then this is to be expected of them. The smart person learns to use SOE's behaviour to their advantage, and thus.......

Thankfully, PvV doctrine teaches us to harvest the drops early on, while they're still good.

Believe what you will, this is the classic example of what I am saying.

No one is perfect, and mistakes WILL happen. Either way (you have conveniently forgotten the numerous instances of drop rates being improved, etc). But it's soooooo easy and convenient to see it as a conspiracy theory. Classic message board mentality. Well, continue spewing your BS if that rocks your boat.

Callahad

What happened here was something that was NOT intended, and changed to something that was intended. Let's call it a bug.

What you are missing is that the higher initial drop rate was intended, just like it is after every expansion release. There's no conspiracy theory going on here; we've seen this behavior before, and regardless of how much SOE denies it, their intent is obvious.

This trend is, as Stewwy pointed out, a large part of marketing expansions. As new items drop, links spreads like wildfire; then each item makes its rounds on message boards, on EQ spoiler/info sites, and of course on class boards. SOE knows this full well and boosts drop rates during the first couple of weeks to make sure every player who hasn't bought the new expansion will feel like they're missing out.

In itself, that was never a very big issue, until SOE started doing the same thing with spells. Casters who are able to jump right in and farm new higher level zones get all of their spells right away, with amazingly little effort compared to those who, for whatever reasons, are unable to take advantage of drop rates before they're decreased.

So when people like Larellion describe the "thrill of obtaining my spells through my own actions" ... I can't help but think: perhaps there's nothing wrong with the pre-nerf drop rates. If it's thrilling for early comers, in spite of knowing the rates are higher than normal, perhaps it would be thrilling for others when the content is new to them.

Perhaps if rates were kept the same instead of being reduced, the folks who come along in the following months would perceive these "goals" as thrilling, instead of as drudgery.

~Firemynd

LOL keep going, very entertaining :) /brings out popcorn

Callahad

but now is a different game and something earned or won is worth more than something given.
Perhaps. I've never personally noticed such a distinction. I consider a caster's spells to be their tools, which are required to do the new content. They should be easily attainable before reaching the content that requires them *without* repetitive farming or otherwise going to extreme lengths to get them. They should be, and were for Classic, Kunark, and Veloius, part of the natural progression of events that your character encounters while experiencing the expansion (with a couple of notable exceptions - hihi Torpor!) Since then, with Luclin, PoP, GoD and now OoW, spells are *still* required for the new content, yet the only way to get them has been to farm the hell out of whatever mob it is that drops them (although PoP eventually worked out after months of tuning - except for level 65 spells.) There is no natural progression. It's anti-Fun when you make a repetitive, tedious task required to progress. Camping rare's/ph's = not fun. Farming named mobs in plane-of-whatever week after week to get enough runes for your guild = boring as hell. Racing cheaters and killstealers to named mobs which are the only source of new spells = frustrating at best, a case for quitting at worst.

I have no problem if you like to feel the thrill of obtaining your own spells... but why do you need to enforce that belief on others who disagree? That was another one of the choices you could make in original EQ. Make a priest - buy your spells. Make a robie - collect research components and make them. Choices are the real source of longevity in a game, not enforced time sinks. Choices offer not just immersion and depth, but replayability. Time sinks offer frustration and boredom.

I'm not even going to go into trying to compare spells to anything a melee has to deal with. There's no comparison.

On a side note, who was it that insisted nodrop wasnt equal to rare? Well, it's been a few weeks now... and wow, look... those 69 and 70 spells arent exactly falling like rain, are they!

And finally. Callahad, posts like that add nothing at all and make you look like a fool. If you want to simply taunt people from your high horse, make your own message forum. If you want to debate the facts and issues and try to convince people of your opinion, feel free. But if you've got nothing to offer except taunts and insults, then dont post.

No one is perfect, and mistakes WILL happen.


Fool me once, shame on SOE.

Fool me twice, shame on me.

Fool me seven times, I guess my name is Callahad...

The problem with spells is there is a quadruple whammy.

They are only on named.
They are only 1 in 3 at best.
Not all named drop spells.
Named spawns have been nerfed, which are the only source of spells to begin with.

Thus reducing the inflow of spells to the world and keeping the plat dealers in business and the price of ruens high.

Runes should be dropped by mobs of their level equivelent RARELY with an increased chance on named mobs. Hmmmm....maybe like Specs and etherals?!?!?!?!? SHOCKING thought!

Why make spells difficult to obtain? Why tedious? Why expensive? Come on! Throw me a damn bone SOE! I need my spells to DO MY JOB in groups! A rogue can stab stab stabd just the same without his disciplines, but casters can't do their jobs effectively IF AT ALL in higher level zones without their spells.

Fool me seven times, I guess my name is Callahad...

Of course, posts like that are permitted from moderators. ROFL. Tiane, take your own words to heart and then we will talk.

But in reference to that, scirocco, you are still playing, and a lot, are you not? I guess that makes you a fool as big as me, or more...

Still makes me laugh to no end the incredible conspiracy theories that pop out and the convenient omissions put out to follow that logic. Remember the couple days xp nerf that made it almost impossible to gain xp? The zone crashes that had to be fixed? The increased drop rate on many things, including spells in GoD? And a gazillion other examples of things that were mistakes but corrected after. Closer to heart, have you not seen more xp gained from xping in OoW since the last patch? I guess THAT was a mistake, but the changes to rune drops was not, right?

Any good project leader knows that a project is never, ever, completed : It just can attain a level of satisfactory completion. It is never ever perfect, and it never goes according to plan. Any good project leader knows that mistakes WILL happen along the way. It is as unavoidable as the sun rising every day. To think it won't is utopic and the kind of stuff that fuels this thread... Well keep dreaming up new conspiracy theories instead of accepting a much simpler explanation, if that makes you happy... Certainly worth a good :popcorn:

Callahad

Compare:
LOL keep going, very entertaining /brings out popcorn

Callahad

to:

Perhaps. I've never personally noticed such a distinction. I consider a caster's spells to be their tools, which are required to do the new content. They should be easily attainable before reaching the content that requires them *without* repetitive farming or otherwise going to extreme lengths to get them. They should be, and were for Classic, Kunark, and Veloius, part of the natural progression of events that your character encounters while experiencing the expansion (with a couple of notable exceptions - hihi Torpor!) Since then, with Luclin, PoP, GoD and now OoW, spells are *still* required for the new content, yet the only way to get them has been to farm the hell out of whatever mob it is that drops them (although PoP eventually worked out after months of tuning - except for level 65 spells.) There is no natural progression. It's anti-Fun when you make a repetitive, tedious task required to progress. Camping rare's/ph's = not fun. Farming named mobs in plane-of-whatever week after week to get enough runes for your guild = boring as hell. Racing cheaters and killstealers to named mobs which are the only source of new spells = frustrating at best, a case for quitting at worst.
etc...


ROFL. Tiane, take your own words to heart and then we will talk.
So just WTF are you talking about? You posted taunts. I posted thoughts and opinions with facts and evidence to back them up, as I always do. You've never posted a single backed up fact or quote or source in any of your posts. All YOU do is flame and flame on anyone that dares to question or criticize your ideal view of the world. You know what we call people who do that? Trolls. Are you one? Tell you what, I've absolutely zero desire to talk to you. But if you are going to be a flaming hypocritical troll, then you wont be doing much more talking around here.

Of course, posts like that are permitted from moderators.

What posts? A caution against willful blindness? A reminder that this has happened more than a few times?

Besides, I have always found that humour is the best way to deals with trolls. Which you undoubtedly have proven yourself to be.

change was a negative one in the opinion of the overwhelming majority.

You always back your claims right? Alright. Back that up.

I never back my claims right?

Remember the couple days xp nerf that made it almost impossible to gain xp? The zone crashes that had to be fixed? The increased drop rate on many things, including spells in GoD? And a gazillion other examples of things that were mistakes but corrected after. Closer to heart, have you not seen more xp gained from xping in OoW since the last patch? I guess THAT was a mistake, but the changes to rune drops was not, right?

/smirk

And Scirocco. Coming from a moderator, it's a friendly humorous reminder. Coming from me, its trolling. /shrug. I guess you dont see it...

Callahad

Heh... if you wanna call that backing up your claims... vague references to your personal rememberings.

Remember the couple days xp nerf that made it almost impossible to gain xp?
No, I didnt have that problem.

The zone crashes that had to be fixed?
Zones are still crashing.

The increased drop rate on many things, including spells in GoD?
Recently? No. If you are referring to them completely changing the way spells were acquired in GoD, then I remember that, and it still isnt good enough. As for the other "many things", I'm afraid that you saying it doesnt make it so.

And a gazillion other examples of things that were mistakes but corrected after
Such as? Sure, they correct mistakes. Does that excuse obvious ones that remain uncorrected, even after literally years of being that way? Hell no. Does that excuse new mistakes that they make, which are identical to the same ones they've made in the past? Hell no.

Closer to heart, have you not seen more xp gained from xping in OoW since the last patch?
Nope. Nor do I recall them saying anything about that in a patch message. And, as usual, you dont actually include any quote from such a message.

Alright. Back that up.
Did you even read the thread that I linked earlier? Obviously not. How about you actually click on the provided reference material before making claims of ignorance. You cant even apparently comprehend the statements made by other people in this very thread that say the same thing.

Coming from me, its trolling. /shrug. I guess you dont see it...
No, we see it.

Tiane, meet Kettle.

But in reference to that, scirocco, you are still playing, and a lot, are you not? I guess that makes you a fool as big as me, or more...

Callahad, guessing by the statement of yours he quoted, I'm pretty sure Scirocco was referring to your apparent belief that SOE didn't really intend for spells to drop so commonly during the first couple weeks after an expansion release.

You did say: "What happened here was something that was NOT intended, and changed to something that was intended."

You did say: "If you believe in a bug, then you realize that you profitted from an unintended benefit for a few days"

Do you actually believe the elevated drop rates were "NOT intended" even though we've seen the exact same pattern throughout the last seven expansion releases?

You'd have to be seriously naive (or quite new to the game) to believe that SOE, at release time, didn't know precisely how frequently named mobs would respawn in each OoW zone and precisely what ratio of drops would include spell runes.

~Firemynd

Tiane, meet Kettle.
Wow, nice personal attack. And nothing specific, just a point blank attack. You know, this isnt presidential politics. Just saying things without any evidence doesnt mean you win. If you wanna attack me pal, be prepared to back it up. As it is, that post is borderline against the forum rules.

I haven't noticed anything different in terms of the actual mobs here... I admit rune drop rate and overall name spawn rate was nerfed shortly after release.. but it was admittedly far too high at first. Hope they don't nerf it even worse.
Hmm, so it's ok that you got your runes, and you dont mind having taken advantage of the situation. Yet for everyone else it's just fine for them to go ahead and "nerf" the drop rate. Hypocrite, meet thyself.

The are 2 kinds of people who have no problem with this nerf, or many nerfs in general. One is the kind that believes the devs can do no wrong, despite years of evidence to the contrary, and in fact by the devs own admissions (nobody's perfect.) The other kind is those who have already taken advantage of it and can no longer benefit from the pre-nerf situation. It is, in fact, to their advantage to have a nerf put in place, it cements their "lead" against the people they are competing against in the game. Kind of a dispicable attitude, imho.

Tiane I made my reply shortly and simply to make a point, which apparently you missed.. You accuse others in this thread of being trolls, when you yourself are doing the same thing. See example:

And finally. Callahad, posts like that add nothing at all and make you look like a fool. If you want to simply taunt people from your high horse, make your own message forum. If you want to debate the facts and issues and try to convince people of your opinion, feel free. But if you've got nothing to offer except taunts and insults, then dont post.

Frankly Tiane, your comments come off so high and mighty, so horribly snotty. You call this poster a fool for disagreeing with you... and me too. I'm sorry we don't share the same opinion, that doesn't give you permission to treat us like crap. :bs:

So just WTF are you talking about? You posted taunts. I posted thoughts and opinions with facts and evidence to back them up, as I always do. You've never posted a single backed up fact or quote or source in any of your posts. All YOU do is flame and flame on anyone that dares to question or criticize your ideal view of the world. You know what we call people who do that? Trolls. Are you one? Tell you what, I've absolutely zero desire to talk to you. But if you are going to be a flaming hypocritical troll, then you wont be doing much more talking around here.

Does nobody else see the horrible hypocrisy here? On the previous page she calls a fellow poster a fool, then rags him and calls him a troll for taunting. :shuffle: Give me a freaking break.

I'm a very patient person, but your attitude in this thread has flat out sucked. The original poster posted his opinion. Some replies agreed, some didn't. For those that disagreed you accused them of basically being greedy and under SoE's wing. That's :bs:

I know that SoE makes mistakes. And I'm also not naive enough to know that they probably have the drops higher at the release of an expansion to get people to buy it.

Wow, nice personal attack. And nothing specific, just a point blank attack. You know, this isnt presidential politics. Just saying things without any evidence doesnt mean you win. If you wanna attack me pal, be prepared to back it up. As it is, that post is borderline against the forum rules.

So calling Callahad a fool isn't a personal attack? Please. I left my response short and simple because I didn't want your foul venom spitting my way. I guess you just can't keep it in. I'm not intimidated by you, and I will speak my mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macnbaish
I haven't noticed anything different in terms of the actual mobs here... I admit rune drop rate and overall name spawn rate was nerfed shortly after release.. but it was admittedly far too high at first. Hope they don't nerf it even worse.


Hmm, so it's ok that you got your runes, and you dont mind having taken advantage of the situation. Yet for everyone else it's just fine for them to go ahead and "nerf" the drop rate. Hypocrite, meet thyself.

Note my last sentence.. "Hope they don't nerf it even worse." Then you say that I'm saying it's ok for them to nerf more. What? Can you read? I got ZERO runes from OOW when the drop rate was so high. I just know it was from other people there. All the runes I have earned are at the current drop/work rate, or maybe slightly higher. Not by much if at all. Maybe you should check your facts before you begin accusing people of things.

The are 2 kinds of people who have no problem with this nerf, or many nerfs in general. One is the kind that believes the devs can do no wrong, despite years of evidence to the contrary, and in fact by the devs own admissions (nobody's perfect.) The other kind is those who have already taken advantage of it and can no longer benefit from the pre-nerf situation. It is, in fact, to their advantage to have a nerf put in place, it cements their "lead" against the people they are competing against in the game. Kind of a dispicable attitude, imho.

Wrong. I'm neither one of those two people so your logic is flawed. See above. Note that I have given away 1/3rd of the runes that have dropped through my hands.

Finally, your attitude is despicable. Putting down those that disagree with you, then accusing them of the things that you yourself are doing. I'm not a ranter and I have never ranted on these boards. But I guarantee that I won't be humiliated or intimated by anybody for my opinion. I don't care if you're a mod of this board or the president of the US. I will give my opinion.

After reading all of that, I have only one thing to say:

Penis.

That is all.

I don't like bullies or people that like to put others down.

That is all.

/DRAMA ON

Hmm. sounds like you guys are having a wicked time on some of the other servers =( The good news is after a lil time the runes should come way down in price tho 69 and 70 will still have to be hunted for, but the waiting sucks, i can understand that. I did want to say however to wolfshead that lvl 70 spells (Glowing Muramite Rune) ARE one groupable =)

I hope things improve for you all who are having trouble

edit:Lol. i just noticed there was more then the first page =p
Lulu <------ newb :D

Lluwenae Trefendil
The Claw of Nagafen
Bristlebane

"The are 2 kinds of people who have no problem with this nerf, or many nerfs in general"

There's 3. People who dont get their knickers in a twist over this. And Tiane you are being double faced. :dance:

I beg your pardon? Nice out of the blue attack.

This thread has been dead for a week and a half and you throw that in? Heh... just let it go.

Can I 1 group level 70 runes in my pre-time gear?

I dont visit every day Tiane, sorry. Please post when a thread is done for me. :clap:

Telaman. i think a Kyv Bowhound, Granitesmash in RCoD and all the uncommon mobs in WOS can drop them i believe.

Okay enough of this chit - You want to attack someone Attack me.. If someone WANTS to make an opinion.. then they can - but if that opinion bumps heads with the rules.. then report it.. if that opinion is different from yours.. then challenge it.. but if you personally attack them again I will push the Almighty button of Nazism and flush those feces down the toilet and it will probably take some time for you to emerge again with a different attitude towards the people of this community.

Report the post if you feel you been wronged in some way no matter if a Moderator or Community member .. Do not attack them!

Now back off and adjust!

Spells are the 'tools' casters need to do their 'job'. Without these tools we are limited in our abilites.

Plat for Cash farmers are standing between the folks who play for fun, and the tools needed to keep playing. Greed is their motivation.

Make ALL spell runes NoDrop. Keep a count of who has how many level XX spells and limit these folks from looting runes when that particular level is complete. Make it so you MUST be of level to scribe to loot a Rune.

If peeps won't police themselves, then change the rules.

I would also support the changing of ALL current runes to nodrop, in a stealth patch. The Plat for Cash farmers need a reminder that EQ is a GAME, not a career.

If these steps are taken, then the drop rate and mob availability would not be a concern. The challenge would remain and the perma-camped rune dropping mobs would be free to those who still NEED the tools to play their class.

Its sad to be forced to take these steps. If these greedy peeps would learn the basic rules of sharing and cooperation and fair-play, then these steps wouldn't be needed.

Sony NEEDS to activly pursue these Cash for Plat services and shut them down. Legally and permanently. These websites ARE in violation of the EULA. By taking a FIRM proactive stance on this, Sony can restore their product to playability.

As far as spells being "Needed" for new content, it's few and far between which spells are neccessary.


I dare day that Enchanters are one of the few classes who can claim not to be able to work without their spells. (Mez, Stun, and the like)

We can still use Winter's Frost, Sylvan Fire, and the like to nuke.
We can still use TR, KR, NI, and Sylvan Infusion to heal.

Necros, Wizards, Mages, and the rest all do damage with older spells.
The same cleric heals that kept people alive in txevu and PoTime can keep them alive in WoS, RCoD and MPG. Maybe towards the endgame of any expansion, you need the armor and spells from that expansion. But not for all of it.

Don't get me wrong, our spells are our main upgrades, but trying to make it sound like we can't even zone in anywhere without a full new spellbook is bunk.

I'll probably get flamed to hell for this. I liike my power upgrades as much as anyone, but I'm not worthless without them.


Flame-Proof Suit ON,
-Noishpa

Spells are the 'tools' casters need to do their 'job'. Without these tools we are limited in our abilites.

Plat for Cash farmers are standing between the folks who play for fun, and the tools needed to keep playing. Greed is their motivation.

Make ALL spell runes NoDrop. Keep a count of who has how many level XX spells and limit these folks from looting runes when that particular level is complete. Make it so you MUST be of level to scribe to loot a Rune.

If peeps won't police themselves, then change the rules.

I would also support the changing of ALL current runes to nodrop, in a stealth patch. The Plat for Cash farmers need a reminder that EQ is a GAME, not a career.

If these steps are taken, then the drop rate and mob availability would not be a concern. The challenge would remain and the perma-camped rune dropping mobs would be free to those who still NEED the tools to play their class.

Its sad to be forced to take these steps. If these greedy peeps would learn the basic rules of sharing and cooperation and fair-play, then these steps wouldn't be needed.

Sony NEEDS to activly pursue these Cash for Plat services and shut them down. Legally and permanently. These websites ARE in violation of the EULA. By taking a FIRM proactive stance on this, Sony can restore their product to playability.

1) Mercilessly limiting who can loot which items is not the answer.
2) Making all runes NO DROP also prevents people from helping their guildmates, or trading for the runes they need.
3) Sony has precisely ZERO authority in the RL, U.S.A legal systems to shut down the plat sellers. I hate the plat sellers as much as you do, but a E.U.L.A has been taken to court before, and is *NOT* legally binding. Sony would waste thousands or millions of dollars on a battle that they'd more than likely lose. And even if they somehow won, the Plat seller would dissolve the fake corporation, and make another dummy corp. Or just sell under a different person's name.

The answer, I think, is for sony to start trolling the Online PAY FOR PLAT websites, and finding out who is doing this. Engage in transactions, and find out which accounts are involved. And then Ban them mercilessly , without warning.


-Noishpa

I hate the plat sellers as much as you do, but a E.U.L.A has been taken to court before, and is *NOT* legally binding.

The only such case of an EULA being found not binding that I am aware of referred to a software download that did not require the user to see or click "accept" to install and run. EULAs such as that used by EQ, in which the license agreement is displayed and the user must explicitly accept, have been found to be binding in several states.

If you have a reference to a more recent case in which a click-through EULA has been found not binding, please post some info on it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who tries to stay current on such things.

Vestix
Storm Warden of Tunare

The answer, I think, is for sony to start trolling the Online PAY FOR PLAT websites, and finding out who is doing this. Engage in transactions, and find out which accounts are involved. And then Ban them mercilessly , without warning.

Fraud is fun!

Fraud is fun!

It's not fraud.

Sony_Rep finds a "10k plat for $10" promotion.
Sony_Rep finds out that the plat is being sold by Account_ABC.

Account_ABC finds himself and anyone using the same credit card number as himself banned.


-Noish

A number of posters state that SoE knowingly had high spell drop rates when OoW came out and then nerfed them. Apparently this was some kind of marketing ploy.

I learned a long time ago that while I can see actions, I cannot judge intent or motive. Clearly, spell drops became less frequent. Some maintain that it's 'obvious' that SoE had a pre-planned marketing motive. Sorry, but to me it's 'oblivious'.

When Sony blows the implementation of a new expansion (e.g. GoD) people say they made major, stupid mistakes. Fair enough. I think that's correct. When they have a reasonable implementation of a new expansion (e.g. OoW) and make some changes, they have a well-developed marketing strategy that involves planned spell drop nerfs. *chuckle* That's pretty far-fetched.

New expansions bring opportunities for the nimble. Remember the outlandish tribute values that were so bad they had to be retroactively corrected? Remember the incredibly low blue diamond drops? I can now buy blue diamonds cheaper in the Bazaar than from a vendor. Remember the mistake that allowed folks to improve tracking and secondary specialization because of a bug? It took more than six months to reverse the tracking bug. They still haven't addressed the secondary specialization issue - I have 112 skill in secondary specialization which is supposed to be capped at 100.

/sarcasm on Amazing how many mistakes can be made by a company with a sophisticated marketing plan involving pre-planned nerfs. /sarcasm off

A male driver was approaching a long curve on a highway when a weaving car driven by a woman came careening towards him. The woman barely regained control of her vehicle and screamed "PIG" at the man. The quick-thinking man yelled back "DOG". Feeling very pleased with his quick reaction, the man drove around the curve and wrecked his vehicle when he hit a pig.

To those who believe that SoE has a fancy marketing plot involving spell nerfs, I say "oink, oink". Feel free to "bark" back.

Thicket

It's not fraud.

Sony_Rep finds a "10k plat for $10" promotion.
Sony_Rep finds out that the plat is being sold by Account_ABC.

Account_ABC finds himself and anyone using the same credit card number as himself banned.

Except that the seller wouldn't say he was Account_ABC until after Sony agreed upon a trade.

Point of view 1:

Spells are a necessary and integral part of being a caster. They should be freely available. When I ding, I should be able to purchase the spells for the new level from a vendor for a small amount of pocket change.

Point of view 2:

High level spells are rare and precious magics, and obtaining them shouldn't be easy; someone who's just root rotted their way to 70 isn't automatically entitled to a full spellbook! They should drop rarely, and when they do drop they should come from challenging content. Getting a high level spell should be a reward in itself.

Point of view 3:

This is EverQUEST, not Evercamp or Everfarm. Spells should be a result of entertaining and interesting quests. Some should be easy to obtain, others more challenging and difficult; some should be soloable, some obtainable by a single group, and some should require raid events.

SoE have varied between these three points of view from expansion to expansion. In vanilla eq, and in some subsequent content, getting spells was for the most part a matter of handing over some pocket change; early in PoP, getting level 65 spells was a job for a raid guild; in LoY, I believe that all the spells were quested.

Personally I believe that the correct answer for an MMORG lies between the three points of view:

Some spells should be available on a vendor when you ding. Nobody should be in a position where they ding 70 and don't have ANY level 69 or 70 spells and have no prospect of getting them, that strikes me as outrageous.
Some spells should rightly be the purview of higher end raid guilds. Killing certain bosses should give the possibility of a rare and precious spell. The Ancient spell idea has been under-used and poorly implemented.
Some spells should certainly be quested. There should be a variety of interesting and challenging quests, some soloable, some single-groupable, and some requiring a raid force, to obtain spells which tie in with the lore behind the quest.

Please note that at no point in that whole post did I use the phrase "silver platter." ;)

"someone who's just root rotted their way to 70"

Laugh. Clerics cant stop getting their little digs in can they? :dance:

I gave up on leveling.. well actually mostly gave up on playing but that is another item...

Anyway, I gave up on playing and put all exp to AA because I hit lv 67, have NO OoW spells and the mobs i could solo started giving almost no exp. I had to sac back down to lv 66 to get decent AA exp and I am still waiting for my first lv 66 or 67 rune. I have gotten over 20 aa even with mobs giving less than half the AA exp they did before I got lv 67. It is pretty $%^&py that someone that has played for over 5 years cannot even get the spells he needs to compete with the mobs. Although I have not seen were the OoW spell were much of an upgrade over the pre-lv 65 spells.

Evidently SoE does not feel that I have a right to my spells unless I join an uber guild that can get my gear upgraded to Time quality or can farm the runes for me. They have made it where only elemental druids have a chance to farm the runes solo and at the same time made us almost worthless in groups compared to other classes.

That's just silly. I get very nice AA XP at 70, and that's without any 69 or 70 spells. I also get the AAs that go with being level 70, which is the driving factor for my doing so (although the mana, hp, mana regen, etc., all are nice).

Where do you get nice AA solo, Scirocco? Due to RL obligations I have to solo most of the time when our guild doesnt raid and the AA exp dropped quite a bit for me. In POS I could get 1AA an hour charming frogs/killing giants and frogs.

I exp in VXED almost exclusively to get to 70 and the AA has dropped a lot. I am just curious. HOH was ok AA exp at 65, at 68 it drops down to almost nothing, POS is very bad because after 65 you loose the exp bonus.

Well I made 70. I have 5 Runes to my name (3x68 2x67). Most of them came from shopping in the bizzare for someone who didn't know how to price them.

The comment that I enjoyed the most was that we can still use lower level spells. I disagree and this is why.

I'm in MPG heading for a Trial We have no mezzer. (Rephrase we had no mezzer with a spell high enough to make a difference in the area we are at) so I get stuck healling the off tank. I accidently loaded Sylvan Infusion rather than Chlorotrope. By the time the rest of the party kills the main mob I am OOM. A couple pulls later I fizzled ONCE and the off tank got ate. After rezzing in I figured out what went wrong and I was able to keep the off tank up with 40% mana to spare.

So we get to the trial we killed 17 mobs in the 15 min. I was fairly much chain nuking and blowing harvest potions. just not enough DPS. I am fully convinced after I have some higher level nukes that the trial will be completeable. Unfortuantely until I get those runes, I am a LIABILITY at the trial.

The really sad part about this is I am from a time+ Guild. We do time in one day and alot of our p1-3 loot is starting to rot. I think all of our active Druids have pants from time or Ikkiniz 1 it's not due to a lack of gear in my opinion.

I would love to see maybe our heal and a nuke on a vendor as that would satisfy a majority of the Druid community atm. (I've seen the polls most of us could be classified as either healers or nukers with a few odd types thrown in) This would give us the tools we need to fulfill the roles we have in the game.

Let's face it no one has to ask a ranger or a warrior which sword he has. It is pretty much a given it will work how you want it to work. On the flipside I KNOW enchanters are getting asked which Mezz they have and Healers are getting asked which heal they have before certain pickup groups will let them in.

LZ

I'm in MPG heading for a Trial We have no mezzer. (Rephrase we had no mezzer with a spell high enough to make a difference in the area we are at) so I get stuck healling the off tank. I accidently loaded Sylvan Infusion rather than Chlorotrope. By the time the rest of the party kills the main mob I am OOM. A couple pulls later I fizzled ONCE and the off tank got ate. After rezzing in I figured out what went wrong and I was able to keep the off tank up with 40% mana to spare.

So we get to the trial we killed 17 mobs in the 15 min. I was fairly much chain nuking and blowing harvest potions. just not enough DPS. I am fully convinced after I have some higher level nukes that the trial will be completeable. Unfortuantely until I get those runes, I am a LIABILITY at the trial.

Do a different trial then. Also, if you can't keep a tank up in MPG with SI (but you can with Chlorotrope) then either a) you're exaggerating, b) your tank sucks, or c) you suck. Oh, or d) he was off tanking more than 1 mob.

I don't know, I just don't understand why people who have enough time to have reached level 70 already are having trouble collecting runes. I have a fulltime job and raid 5 or 6 nights a week, and I've still managed to get all of my 66-69 runes, and about half of the 66-69 runes for a cleric alt. None were purchased.

I haven't tracked my guildmates' progress too closely, but nearly all of the active people have at least the single target version of the new buffs that I've asked for, so they must not be doing too badly either (especially the clerics that need 6 level 66 runes to get their new symbol).

The problem is that unless you have a guild that raids/camps OoW the runes are pretty hard to get. I have yet to get my first rune because:

1) Only a couple of guildmates have OoW since:
a) The higher levels went to other guilds
b) They are tired of paying for expansions without finishing existing content
c) They are busy flagging for EP and Time
d) They are playing twinks because they are burned out of leveling

2) Getting a group is not easy if:
a) you do not have a guild cle/bard/enc to go with as a package deal
b) there are a half dozen higher level druids LFG
c) They cannot find the key person to create the group such as Cleric/Enc/Bard
d) When forming a group the first thing they ask is if you already have a cleric.
e) The 10+K Tank refuses to be healed by a druid.
f) They dont know that druids can pull, evac/gate or do DPS.

3) Once you get into a group, runes are hard to get because:
a) The group is camping Exp and not runes
b) The rune drops/spawns are rare compaired to amount needed.
c) Everyone in the group/raid wants to lotto for the runes to either use or sell.
d) The bard just stole your named for the 5th time tonight.
e) Guilds will not let non-guild people raid the mobs with them.
f) All of the camps are taken already.
g) Your group is incompetent and wipes on the named so someone else kills him.
h) you need runes for ALL of your spells and have no choice in the order.

4) You cannot get the runes otherwise because:
a) Runes are overpriced when most players cannot afford them.
b) Too many people need them for the amount that drop.
c) The type you need for your current spells are not the ones that drop
d) Guilds that do raid/camp hoard them for their own people.
e) The people not in uber guilds do not have the gear to solo them.

It boils down to if you are uber they are easy to get, if you are the average player they are not.

1. There are several lower level zone/camps in OOW that drop runes that are never taken. Lower level/difficulty = fewer group dependency issues/problems.

2. In addition, you cant argue spawns being stolen because you can go to an instanced dungeon where they drop at the same rate. Find 2-5 other folks and you have a whole zone to yourself.

3. This shouldnt be an argument over "uber" vs non. Since when is keeping something you worked hard for "hoarding" ? Im not giving the level 66 druid lfg in WoS a rune I looted in MPG/Rift just because theyre not competant enough to do it themselves.

4. Farming plat is easier then it has ever been with all the great attunable gear out there. Paying 40k for a spell shouldnt be that hard - you did it when you needed Blessing of the Nine....

5. Demand will drop substantially after the initial farming. With fewer people in the game (due to other releases) and the droprate of 66 67 and 68 runes roughly the same, I dont see the inflation that PoP 64/65 runes did happening. When people working for the runes dont need them anymore, they will trickle down. Id argue it was much harder to get PoP 64/65 runes for a much longer span of time then OOW runes will ever be.

6. The spells are not required to progress on a guild level (unless youre the "uber" mentioned), so it shouldnt be a huge concern - only a potential advantage. So many folks freaking out about spell upgrades, when almost none of them arent game changing until you hit MPG+ (mez comes to mind) if at all. Glitterfrost wont make you invincible. Promise.

Find a necro buddy and duo in NC if you need to. Shouldnt be hard to find a lonely inky....

Some people just need to open their eyes and see past "omgz WoS is l33t!!11" - theres a ton of other options.

Which instanced one-group encounters drop 69/70 runes?

Muramite Proving Grounds trials?

And by the time you're ready to start attempting those you should have most of your 66-68 spells anyway, which you can get in a variety of places either solo or with a small group.

Ignorance is bliss.. A person with uber gear, in an uber guild, with all of they tools they need saying how easy life is... oh well, no use stating how life is for the rest of us since it is our fault for not wanting to live to be uber..

I have sat in MPG for the last two nights now poping back and forth between zonelines doing /ooc lfg for at least 3 hrs a night only to be invited to HoH groups or PoP flagging raids. There are not enough people in my guild that own OoW to form an expedition any more and the ones that joined other guild are on closed raids or groups. With no new spells I have a real chance of competing with the other 2 or 3 lv 67 - 70 druids LFG. and 65K on my server for runes, even lesser ones. I spent 10K for Blessing of Nine. Yep... life is wonderful..

Find ph spots, get a melee and maybe a slower (a bst fills both roles) and you should be fine. If you want runes, don't waste time getting full groups and doing xp. Just clear the ph's in some place like dranikcity and move between them with invis. The 66-68 runes really aren't a problem as they drop fairly frequently and as long as you know where the rune-dropping ph spots are you can keep several clear. Clearing two ph spots in hollows isn't that difficult either though some cc might be needed.

The 69-70 runes really are a problem however. I haven't really found any way to get them other than via raids. Supposedly some of the yellow-con named in rcod can drop them, but i haven't gotten one yet after numerous kills and don't know many ph's for them. I did manage to get one 69 from a normal bluecon named in dranik, but thats the only one i've gotten outside of raids.

All but one of my runes I've gotten on my own without help from my guild. My gear has only made a difference in that the small group hasn't needed a traditional tank; druid/enchanter or druid/enchanter/cleric has been sufficient for me, and I guarantee a bazaar geared warrior, paladin, or shadowknight will tank better than I do. Maybe it's not possible for some people to solo rune droppers due to gear, but a small group of the appropriate level should have no trouble with them in Nobles' Causeway or the instanced zones off of Dranik's Scar. Many rune droppers only hit for 500 to 700 or so, are partially slowable, and only summon once every 10 seconds.

Nearly all rune droppers that I have run into are rootable and snareable. This should make it MUCH easier to deal with them--unless you have bad luck with a string of resists, you can debuff before engaging.

Now, level 69 and 70 runes are tough to get, I'm not arguing that. I still don't have any level 70 runes myself. Those spells certainly aren't needed to be able to hunt in places where 69 and 70 runes drop though.

I agree with Tawnos; put together a small group and invis between placeholder spots. You'll get less exp but a lot more runes that way.

Ignorance is bliss.. A person with uber gear, in an uber guild, with all of they tools they need saying how easy life is...

I dont think anyone said its EASY. The point is its doable.

oh well, no use stating how life is for the rest of us since it is our fault for not wanting to live to be uber..

If thats directed at me, you might want to back up son. My foundation was a family guild I loved dearly and many of my friends are still in the same guild. We are talking barely into PoP folk, and I talk with them daily. Many of them have more spells then half of my guild, because they were willing to camp those spots that dont/didnt give additional rewords (exp etc).

I have sat in MPG for the last two nights now poping back and forth between zonelines doing /ooc lfg for at least 3 hrs a night only to be invited to HoH groups or PoP flagging raids.

Hi, no one suggested camping either place for spells, as your plight for group offers was obvious.

There are not enough people in my guild that own OoW to form an expedition any more and the ones that joined other guild are on closed raids or groups.

Not even 2 other people in your guild have OOW? I find that hard to believe. It only takes 3 to open one. Otherwise the LFG tool is your friend. Make your own group if needbe - theres plenty of other classes who have the same dilemna of being "in between" and im sure would love to do anything more then sitting in pok listening to silly banter. (Hi Beastlords and most tanks)

With no new spells I have a real chance of competing with the other 2 or 3 lv 67 - 70 druids LFG.

Make your own group per above. I had the same problems with my druid - price you pay for the popular class. Shouldnt be hard to find a slower (any work) and a tank.

and 65K on my server for runes, even lesser ones. I spent 10K for Blessing of Nine. Yep... life is wonderful..

Im glad you got lucky on B9 then. Im assuming thats after the market dropped out, so waiting for spells is something youre used to. Give OOW a few months and the same will happen. Until then be glad you can solo and/or have enough fingers to type / L F G and push the search button.

Just because "ubers" are above you progression wise, doesnt mean they're trying to look down on you. Lighten up. Sheesh.

Grendul: Just because "ubers" are above you progression wise, doesnt mean they're trying to look down on you.

Addressing another community member as "son" is about as patronizing and condescending as anything else I can think of.

~Firemynd

Good to see linguistics are more important then the facts presented. Go you Firemynd.

If someones going to discredit suggestions and opinions based on my or anyone elses guild affiliation, then id say theres more then enough basis for using said term. Obviously they're only looking to whine and blame others -- as a child would. The condescending nature of said statement is derived from the lack of comprehension towards the individual - not from his status in Norrath.

If you didn't know... Muramite Proving Grounds Named can drop Glowing and Greater runes. Riftseekers named ONLY drop Greater or Glowing, none below that. These are single group mobs, of course RS named are harder/more challenging...

Good to know you can ignore the facts. You go Grendul.

It boils down to SoE has created two games. One for those that have good guilds/friends and can farm the gear needed to enjoy the expansions and one for the majority of players that can't. I outlined the game for the average player that is not in a guild that can farm EP and Time to get the gear to solo mobs that drop runes. Most of the guilds are now closed so that players that do not raid are having a hard time finding groups.

I never said to give runes to people. By hoarding I meant they are not putting them on the market yet. I am sure after the next expansion they will start to sell them at lower prices. Sorry I was not clear on that. Any given night I can find one or two runes for sell at 65k+. I know more are dropping.

In my guild, most of the people quit either from GoD or when OoW came out. Those that were planar went to raiding guilds since that was the only way they could progress. There are 5 other people in my guild that have OoW out of about 40 - 50 people and only a couple are lv 65+ but they play at differnent times (I am EST and they are PST). Yes I could get a guild Necro to join me. There is a lv 51 necro that has OoW. He has tried and found the mobs in the instanced zones very resistant to his spells/pet. The lv 56 cleric also has OoW and when online has grouped with me as has the lv 60 Pally. There are a lot of people out there but the percentage that are in your league is very small. I do not attack people on based on their guild affiliation because most of the people that I know that are in Uber guilds are very intelligent and skilled players. If AL hadn't had Sobe, I probably would have been in a Uber guild also since I had been intially sponcered and invited when they formed and had several friends in the guild. Unfortunately back then guilds didn't need many druids and I ended up in DM which was a tier II guild. I have been in a couple of Uber raiding guilds since then but when they got obsorbed in other guilds I got tired of the manditory raiding and went back to "Family" Guilds. That was my choice, but that infuences my opinions of the game.

It is true a person with a good reputation, powerful friends and a good guild should have no problem getting the items just as those people should have no problem going to farm EP/time. But there are more people that don't have those than do and when someone complains about problems cause by SoE for average or casual players that try to compete in the game it is not very helpful to post how easy it is for someone that is in the elite part of the game. I am sure given the proper gear, spells and two/three boxing I could solo a lot of mobs that drop runes. I am sure with the proper group/gear/spells I could single group mobs that drop Glowing or Greater runes. But those conditions do not exist for myself or a very high percentage of players and that is what I stated.

And as for "Son", I probably have shoes and games older than you but I try not to be condesending (although sometimes I fail in restraint when tired).

Data like Nimchip states is good information to know but it doesn't resolve how players that can't get groups to do it can get their spells. I guess it boils down to waiting till everyone that can farm them, has them and they hit the market at cheep prices next year to get them.

Basicly as I have been told many times, the logical course for most players right now is to keep leveling and getting your AA's and don't worry about spells. I have been told to get lv 70 and then farming to buy them will be easy which appears the way to go.

This is the unkept druids and hopefully nobody has been offended by my opinions but anyone that has seen me post in these boards knows I try to be open minded. I just am tired and burnt out after so many years of playing this game and get cranky.

Some of these suggestions and information on the runes would make a good guide in the strategy section. Maybe a list of mobs that can be soloed or single grouped, strategy, and what runes they can drop. Details on summoning or PH would help but main thing is know where they are and what force is needed to camp them.

Well Kulothar a good idea before telling everyone how hard things are is to look around.
For example http://thedruidsgrove.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9785 is a good post that explain a little about the mobs, allakazam also got that same info, it take 1-2 hours of testing to figure what zones u can easly own and what zones you will need help.

Just for info With a ranger tank i never had problem killing normal named in NC, so take a paladin or SK and u can own them.

The best way to make group is be creative.

For example Mages pets can tank well in NC and below (u kite all mobs untill named pop then Chain heal/summon pets untill named die) for a good duo and since mages are often LFG u can normaly found a lvl 67+ free.
Rangers with old epic Pwn (Proc slow), again Kite until named pop then ranger tank with u spam heal.

Sitting LFG at MPG will not get u far, i am in a good guild and will almost never get invite to group at MPG since when a group is form they look to be effciant and at MPG druid while still rock is not the obviuse choice.
So be active i got /who lfg 65 70 hot key just so i could see if there is the right make up for a good group while i solo/farm (DC pet in DS for PP+faction).

All in all it's easy to blame Soe, it's a little harder to be active and get things done on your own... but it is more productive and will probably be more fun (At least to most people).

P.S. i got 1 lv 69 spell and none lv 70 spells and i still think this is fun expension. if they would have given me all spell by now i would have nothing to look forward to (if memory work it took me more then 6 months to get my pop 65 spells).

my old guild was similar to yours in numbers and varied times that members played. we no longer did much grouping/raiding as a guild. in the last month Fate's Forge Combined with a lesser accomplished guild Final Evolution, but FE has many more members and actually has Guild Raids. they are about to break into elementals with the new more uber FF members.

But LFG hasn't bothered me too much since i can always go quad kite in HoH, or solo in Vxed/Tipt while i'm LFG and most of the time there is a picnic tables group in fire i can get in or on the list and wait my turn. And 75% of the time i'm raiding.

Runes are cheaper on my server, E'ci, and all versions of the runes cost about 40k sometimes they dip into the high 30s and up to 50k. the more expensive of the runes are the minor and lessor since not as many are farming the DS expiditions.

Grendul: Good to see linguistics are more important then the facts presented. Go you Firemynd.

I didn't criticize your linguistic skills at all. I simply pointed out how your "ubers don't look down on you" message -- and any other point you were trying to make -- was pretty likely to be lost after the very first line of your post. There were actually several places where your wording would very likely rub your intended audience the wrong way.

Question is: why bother posting if you're going to berate the person(s) you're addressing, causing them to react to your tone rather than spend that energy trying to understand your point?

You would do well to recognize when constructive criticism is being given, so you can consider taking it occasionally.

~Firemynd

2 words...

Fun...NOT!

Sayadina
69 Druid of Nightwatcher
Seventh Hammer

Don't sweat it. The ultimate casual revenge is when the ubers turn to each other and say, "wonder why the servers are so empty?".

Don't sweat it. The ultimate casual revenge is when the ubers turn to each other and say, "wonder why the servers are so empty?".

Except for the fact that they don't care.

they will definately care when sony no longer has the revenue generated by 90% of the player base (causuals) to cater to to needs of 10% of the player base (raiders). i imaging we will hear alot more about how EQ should have been more causual friendly from the current raiders AFTER sony stops generating new content (now) for EQ.

Heh, do you really think 90% of the people are considering quitting?
It's a vocal minority. A significant group of people, sure, but I seriously doubt they make up anywhere near 90% of the players. Otherwise the population would have declined far more than it has. GoD appears to have caused a loss of 40k accounts out of about 460k, less than 10%. And OoW is much friendlier to "casual" players than GoD was...

God I think is still a big reason why people are so un happy.
If oow would have come before God i dont think it would have gotten the same reaction it got.
As far as i can see OOW got a lot more going for the causual the anything since Sol.
And for the 40K quiting during GoD te number is higher, when you say 40k you forget that those are account that Expire, what about people who paid for a year/6 months? those accounts are only now starting to expire, Also remember that a lot of people have given there account to others when they left (since you can hardly get good $ for an account today) i would say that GoD hurt EQ much worse then people give it credit and that Oow is getting part of the pent up anger (not that's it perfect but it's not as bad as people make it look to be).

And yes EQ2 and WoW are not helping EQ retain the players either.

The 40k decline was over the course of nearly a year. I suppose there may still be full year subscriptions that have been cancelled but not expired, but I expect that the number of people that returned with OoW balance that out.

From the excel spreadsheet at the bottom of http://pw1.netcom.com/~sirbruce/Subscriptions.html we have:
10/03: 460k
12/03: 430k
2/04: 430k
3/04: 420k
7/04: 420k
9/04: 420k

Would not suprise me in the least if when the December #'s come out the list has dropped by 50k.

wouldnt suprise me if that number dropped by 2 or 3 times that amount...like in the 100-150k range.


Heh, do you really think 90% of the people are considering quitting?

please reread what i was saying. what i said was that 90% of the player base has ended up footing the bill for the enjoyment of the other 10%. if SOE had an alternative and equivalent method for people to enjoy 100% of what they payed for, then things wouldnt have gone the way they did. GOD was obviously targeted TOTALLY at the uber or raider players, so a TON of casuals quit cause they had basically just payed for an expansion to be developed that would only benefit 10% of the player base. much like POP.

you wanna know what figure i would like to see? the number of new subscriptions, or renewed subscriptions after november 23 (wow release date). it will be VERY low.

oh, and this is so unsuprising as to be laughable...
http://games.slashdot.org/games/04/10/10/187257.shtml?tid=127&tid=10

i grew up on Star Wars and the day i heard there would be a MMO based on the SW universe was the day i thought i had died and gone to heaven...until i found out that LucasArts had picked SOE to develop it. i deleted the bookmark that day and have never looked back.

SOE is like the kiss of death. they have taken every single thing they have gotten their grubby little hands on and turned it into garbage. and to make matters worse, they can't even be bothered to listen to their paying customers, and when they do, they somehow can't seem to manage to even get the correct picture...the "summit" being a perfect example of them blowing it completely. the causuals are dismayed at the new expansion and what it offers the time limited gamer, and what do they do? they invite all the uber guild leaders to their offices to talk about it. i canceled my account forever after i heard about that one on GUComics.

Woody at GUComics stages this boycott that gets the whole community up in arms, and what happens after he gets his free trip to hollywood? he is gushing all over the place about what a wonderful company SOE is and what they are doing to make things better for the casual gamer. now, is there anyone out there that can point to a SINGLE thing that SOE did to make GOD more equitable for the non-raiders? as far as i know, nothing. yet what about Woody and his boycott of OOW? i dont suppose the trip to SOE softened him up at all.

<edited to remove the Chen reference and fix link. your absolutely right Stew>

Quit picking on Chen.

Woody has quit EQ all together and barely even mentions it any more.

If SOE wanted to give me an all expense paid trip I'd take it. You know why?.... because I know they couldn't buy me. Might as well use them if they think they can use me. Integirty is all up to the individual.



EDIT: To fix typos

removed Chen reference. your right Stew. and fixed link.

A quote from the Pw1.netcom site: EQ’s growth rate has slowed to a crawl, and now has actually shown signs of shrinking.

They probably assume it is because of all the SWG and EQ2 players they have now. They are oblivious to the casual player as are many of the high end druids here and don't understand why sells of their expansions and renewals are not reaching market expectations.

After GoD I had 5 friends give away about 12 accts including two time rogues, a time warrior and a hand full of lv 65 Clerics and enchanters since they were not worth selling. I had offers to take over several of those accts but declined. Those accts didn't get counted as cancelled but those people are no longer playing them.

My wife and son canceled their accts (lv 65 Cleric/Enc and lv 65 SK/Mage) after a month of GoD and I kept mine to see if OoW would fix anything. It did help but not enough to keep me playing. I still have till January on my acct but it/s renewal has been cancelled for a couple of weeks now. Blizzard will have the pleasure of my hard earned cash and hopefully they will appreciate it more than SoE did for the past 5+ years. I had considered going to EQ2 but the SoE/Blizzard ownership made the final decision for me.

This post has really wandered off the specific topic (spell drops) to general disgruntlement with the game itself. Discipline, people -- respect a posts's topic.

Oh well, I'm probably just wasting my effort here. I keep hearing that message boards are just havens for people with an axe to grind, so my message will fall on deaf ears.

Anyway, to try to get the post back on track --

My personal experience with named in WoS is very positive. You just have to be able to claim an area that contains a couple possible named and keep it clear. The cave I was in has at least 3 possible named spawn points and is rarely camped. In about 2 hours we got 3 very nice loot drops, 3 runes (1 glowing, 1 lesser, 1 regular), 1 armor quest piece (arms), and a couple other quest drops (some architecture ring, etc.)

The "north gate" or "north wall" camp (includes the Girplan Mastercrafter, Ukun Tendonslicer, etc. on the north side of the zone) is a VERY hotly contested area because of the number of named it can spawn. It is always camped on my server (Cazic Thule) but it's not guilds or farmers, it's pickup groups usually. I've been rotated in to that camp before, and the named pop like crazy. If you stay there for a long night, expect every person to get one of each possible common drop, and at least one rune.

I don't think that drop rate is very bad. In a month or two, runes will become cheaper (they already average 30-40k on my server, down from 60-80k) as people fill up their spellbooks and give away runes to friends and guildmates.

There are named in Noble's Causeway as well. It's not as camped because it's not a big wide open space -- it's a convoluted maze, so pulling is made more complex and experimentation is less likely. There are some spots that are regularly camped there, however.

RCoD - there is at least one nice camp there that I know of that produces runes and nice droppable loot as well as quest armor -- and at a reasonable rate.

I haven't done a lot of exploring in Omens; I was upset with GoD on several levels. But to me Omens seems like a much more acceptable expansion.