I am considering proposing the following new issue for the druid issue list for the next round. What do you think?


X. 1.5 Epic Effect

- is broken (has no effect on DD damage)
- is resisted too much (should be unresistable; other epic click effects are, in essence, unresistable)
- is underpowered (compared to other priest epic effects)

E.g.,

Shaman (Boon of Farseer):
10: Critical Damage Mob(70)
11: Chance to Critical Hit(50)
12: Increase Hitpoints v2 by 400 per tick

Cleric (Harmonic Balance):
1: Balance Party Health (0% penalty)
2: Increase Hitpoints by 1500
3: Remove Detrimental(9)

Druid (Nature's Blight):
1: Increase Incoming Spell Damage by 5%
2: Limit: Max Level(70)
3: Limit: Effect(Hitpoints allowed)
4: Limit: Instant spells only
5: Limit: Spell Type(Detrimental only)
6: Limit: Target(AE PC v1 excluded)
7: Limit: Target(PB AE excluded)
8: Limit: Target(Targeted AE excluded)
9: Limit: Target(Uber Giants excluded)
10: Limit: Target(Uber Dragons excluded)
11: Limit: Combat Skills Not Allowed


Even if Nature's Blight worked, it would underpowered compared to the (unresistable) click effects of the shaman and cleric. In particular, some additional effects that are more group friendly would be ideal (especially as the current effect appears aimed primarily at the raiding druid). Some suggested additional effects:

All DDs hitting during time period are crits
Increase chance to crit 10%
Increase group HP by 400 per tick
Increase damage to all damage spells 15%
Recourse: Increase healing 20%
Increase heal crit 10%
Group HoT + Mitigation
Group HoT + Dodge

Sounds good, but more suggestions can be put forth...

As a priest, when the effect is needed, we will most likely needed to be healing mostly and nuking secondary...so a nuke increase doesnt really help us as much as a healing increase, so since we have both, why not have an effect with both healing and nuking effects.

Suggestions...

Increase damage 15% and 20%
Increase Crit 10% and 15%
Recourse: Increase healing 20% and 30%
Increase heal crit 10% and 15%

Or

Group HoT + Mitigation

or

Group HoT + Dodge

You might also just mention that NECROS have a group heal on their epic, and yet we don't. It makes no sense, at least to me.


I like the idea of a group dodge mod, or SOTW. Pretty much anything, in fact, instead of what it supposedly is.

If the mod were a guarantee that for one minute all nukes and procs that hit the mob would crit (which in GoD and OoW usually means they'd hit for full), I wouldn't quibble about it not really being a priest effect. As it is, though, it's broken, underpowered, and nonsensical.

I had predicted that the effect would be AE Panic Animal, and damn, I think that would have been better.

It's two issues. The first, that the effect is broken and does nothing, should not take up a top ten slot because it's clearly a bug. I defy any EQ1 dev to actually speak up about it and say that it's working as intended.

You're right though, even if it did work, the effect (as described) is pathetic, especially compared to the other two priest effects (dont forget the shorter timer on the cleric epic - shorter than every other epic 1.5... what's up with that?) That should be on the top ten, but I'd be willing to bet it'll never get changed.

You might also just mention that NECROS have a group heal on their epic, and yet we don't. It makes no sense, at least to me.
Squinting real hard it can make some sense, since necs have had a group heal since luclin: Zeveer's Theft of Vitae (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=2550&source=Live). Also another in GoD: Night Stalker (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=4889&source=Live), the latter of which is heals 78hp/tick less than the "epic". It's obvious druids need an improvement in their epic effect more than necs, but you don't want the nec epic click at all. It's really awful like most of the epic effects.

Actually, issues on the druid issues list are supposed to be primarily focused on "broken" stuff (like bugs). Other stuff is considered "wish list" stuff, and given less attention.

If it were just an issue with the druid 1.5 click effect not working, I'd use an alternative route. But since the click effect is undeniably underpowered (even if it were working), it is good sense...and good timing...to put it in now.

Another new issue is going to focus on OoW spells: bugs, missing spells, incorrect mana. More on that later this week.

Yeah, you're probably right. I guess what bothers me is that I sorta hoped the top ten would be used to address existing (pre-OoW, since that's when they started) issues. Instead, we've suddenly got a bunch more issues that came with the current expansion (many in the form of outright and obvious *bugs*) and they havent exactly whittled away at ours (or anyone elses) existing top ten.

At this rate, they'll never catch up.

Fix the current one, then up the small 5% damage increase to 15% then have a group recourse of "increase chance to score a critical hit by 10% and critical blast by 10%". Make the recourse last 1 minute, just like the debuff, and make the debuff unresistable. I'd like a beneficial click, but I don't see that happening, would probably be doing good to get the current click fixed/made more effective. :shuffle:

From Kytherea over on the SOE boards :

Yes all Epic effects are being reevaluated at this time and some MAY be changed.

I'm not exactly sure what "MAY" means - but it's better than nothing.

5% increase in damage...FOR A PRIEST? (yeah, whenever I find the need to increase damage I always look to clergy for that added bonus)

Umm, excuse me, but WHAT the hell is a damage modifyer doing on a PRIEST weapon? Like I'll take time out from healing someone to cast a debuff (which may not stick) so my MT can die and ensure a wipe of the raid? Wonderfull epic effect!

Lets rename this lovely epic effect to "Druid_wiping_tool"!

Frankly I'm disappointed with the ENTIRE epic quest. The druids were the last. Why? Not for lack of community! (Go Druids!) Our epic quest was confusing, misleading, directionless, broken and bugged.

All this and now an effect that really doesn't belong on a priest. Sloppy thinking here Sony. I can only think that whoever designed our epic quest really doesn't understand druids. My proof is the epic effect. Plain and simple.

Or...even worse...whomever put the epic together has an attitude torwards druids.

I watched a Time geared guild with 5 groups get smeared by the final event. It was nasty. It has the appearance of being a 'death-trap'. No logical progression, just an endless series of spawning mobs designed to wipe your raid.

Very mean spirited. Just plain nasty for the sake of being nasty.

I walk away from the 'new' epic 1.5's with a bad taste in my mouth. The 'happy' feeling one is supposed to get from accomplishing something is not present. I feel cheated and punished.

I tried a 'task' form the OoW expansion. Pointless waste of time.

I can't sem to get any runes for spell drops out of OoW...perma camped, kill stealing guilds make it impossible to get the tools needed to play this game.

The new zones and content with all the summoning mobs ruins it for druids.

With OoW Sony has brought back kill-stealing, perma camping, griefing and farming. Illigical content and ridiculous damage output from mobs.

Overall I give OoW a C- grade. (and I'm being generous)

Now we hear that Sony *might* think about putting this insult of an effect on the *top ten list*....maybe. Gee, thanks.


OK...I'll try to keep an open mind...YOU tell ME what I'm supposed to think from all this, Mr. Sony.

Umm, excuse me, but WHAT the hell is a damage modifyer doing on a PRIEST weapon? Like I'll take time out from healing someone to cast a debuff (which may not stick) so my MT can die and ensure a wipe of the raid? Wonderfull epic effect!

Er do you not have any druids casting hand of ro or eci's on raid mobs then ?

Frankly not every druid on every server heals all the time you know.

Even those of us who do spec in healing still 'somehow' manage to find the time it takes to drop debuffs on mobs.
The casting time alone on this effect isnt exactly shockingly bad :P

Or...even worse...whomever put the epic together has an attitude torwards druids.

I dont believe this is even close to the case to be honest.
Its clear that many of the epics had problems, ours was not resolved due to the coder who did it all being on holidays. A bad idea on soe's half letting him have time off with the release of OoW ( although who knows may have been personal reasons, stuff planed a year in advance, hey whatever )

Once absor was on the case, most of the problems have been sorted out now.
Although epic 2.0 hahahahaha who knows, who cares really.

I watched a Time geared guild with 5 groups get smeared by the final event. It was nasty. It has the appearance of being a 'death-trap'. No logical progression, just an endless series of spawning mobs designed to wipe your raid.

Well Ill be the first to say, wtf were they doing ?
Was this the first people who ever tried it. Ok Id believe that nps, not expecting adds etc.
I took 40 guild mates last night to kith... nps what so ever. Infact a lot of them were laughing how easy it was. One of the BL said 'screw this Im of to make a cup of tea' and headed off leaving his pet on the mob.
By no stretch a taxing kill.
The mob prior to this ( the earthshaker ) is harder imho.
We are ep/time geared.

Now we hear that Sony *might* think about putting this insult of an effect on the *top ten list*....maybe. Gee, thanks.

Sony isnt thinking about it, the druid community here is talking about putting it on that list.

Ill agree the effect is broken. Seriously broken. Hence the post at the start of this thread by Scirocco, which I completely agree with.

- nieros

I agree the final fight was pretty lame compared to the RCoD event. Had only 20 people, no chanters/bards, so we had to take all 10 mini trees at once. Was kinda a cluster f..... but we won without difficulty hehe.

On our clicky, I kinda like the current effect IF
1. It worked
2. It affected every DD spell regardless of who casts it, ie wizzies, melee DD procs, etc
3. the 5% would be increased to maybe 10-15% with a ~60second duration
4. the effect was UNresistable

In it's present form I will not even start my epic 1.5.

That says enough me thinks :)

Difficult vs reward really stinks!

-Cass

IMHO since the druid community is split between healers and nukers the epic should have one effect of each.

The real drawback to a long recast time clickly is that while the present form (if fixed) would help the raiding druid it is utter junk for the casual solo or single group druid.

You can fix it if they wanted to do some code. Simple scale it depending on if you are in a raid or not:

For Example:

10% increased damage if you are in a raid and 25% increased damage if you are in a single group (affects only your group)

This way it would help both types of Druids - raiding and solo/single group.

The 25% boost is not out of line for a single group and the 10% boost during a raid encounter would actually help. As it stands now a 5% boost is equal to adding one more tank - hardly "epic" in my book.
I would suggest a free cast COTW as the second effect or a free group heal or HoT as the healing part.

-Cass

I watched a Time geared guild with 5 groups get smeared by the final event. It was nasty. It has the appearance of being a 'death-trap'. No logical progression, just an endless series of spawning mobs designed to wipe your raid.

Lol, this is either an exageration, or i wonder how those people even got in potime. Any decent time geared guild could do this encounter easily with 3 groups.

I took 40 guild mates last night to kith... nps what so ever. Infact a lot of them were laughing how easy it was. One of the BL said 'screw this Im of to make a cup of tea' and headed off leaving his pet on the mob.
By no stretch a taxing kill.
The mob prior to this ( the earthshaker ) is harder imho.



I agree hehe I had only two and half groups ( only one group was elemental geared, the other group was in lesser gear, and two people there were in Time + gear ) and we did just fine with the final fight in Kith. No deaths. The first time I tried the Ruined City fight, I had 17 people and we wiped. The second time I went, I had about 25 and we won. I personally think this fight is a lot more difficult than the final Kith fight.

I wish they would just plain fix the effect. I'd love a group heal or an effect that adds a dodge for meleers. I'm not guilded and I don't raid often. I can see how the current effect is good for raiders with lots of folks nuking the raid mob but it doesn't do a lot for me, as the only nuker in our little 6 person group. Or maybe I'm wrong about the current effect? hehe It's broken still, so who knows?

Pradera

I watched a Time geared guild with 5 groups get smeared by the final event. It was nasty. It has the appearance of being a 'death-trap'. No logical progression, just an endless series of spawning mobs designed to wipe your raid.

You are either A) Lying, B) Seeing things, C) Saw 5 groups of not time geared people wipe, or D) [Statement left blank as a mod would remove it anyway]

My guild helpped me do the last event and did it with 20 people (I got suspended midfight) and they are only elemental geared with the exception of one rogue that was there.


As for the actual effect of the epic, if it DID work, I would still be disappointed. I can live with it being a nuke effect (I am a rare breed of druid who spec'ed in conjuration), personally id rather it be an effect that affects nukes as I hate hate hate hate hate hate HATE healing, I am not a goddamn cleric and I dont want to be used as one.

I would like to see it bumped up to 15% and a 10% increase in chances to crit to make it worthwhile, cause as it stands 5% isnt all that much every 10 minutes. And as for the cleric epic, i was unaware that its recast was 6 minutes, what the F*** is up with that???

Not sure if it's true but someone said it seems like the duration is variable... if that is the case that's MUST change no questions asked. Giving an effect a 10min recast and variable duration would be silly.

Nevermind, it's late. I can't find the data supporting my point, so I'll save it for another time.

You can fix it if they wanted to do some code. Simple scale it depending on if you are in a raid or not:

For Example:

10% increased damage if you are in a raid and 25% increased damage if you are in a single group (affects only your group)
Dont mean to poop on your idea, but if this was the case i would simply drop out of my raid, click the effect, then get invited back in.

Shrug, i like the effect, but only if it indeed works for everyone in a raid or group and of course if it's increased in percent to show a significant boost...

Dont mean to poop on your idea, but if this was the case i would simply drop out of my raid, click the effect, then get invited back in.
Why?

Would you rather not have 45 people get a 10% effect or 6 people get a 25% effect?

The effect would only work for the group you were in at the time you clicked it. If you were in a raid it would be 10% for the entire raid. If you were not in a raid (there has to be some kind of raid flag) it would be 25% but only for your group.

It could introduce a strategy whereas they would put all the heavy casters in groups with one Druid in each with their epic who would drop from the raid for the final battle but is this a bad thing? If anything it would place Druids with 1.5's in great demand.

-Cass

1.5 is a nice wep if your only look at the stats. I dont see no difference when casting it maybe cause it isnt working or maybe cause the effect is crap. It is resistable and lasts a whopping 45 seconds if that as for the less hatred part I cast and boom *you have been summoned* Its kinda dissapointing that they didnt do better with the druid effect maybe like they say they will look into it......But imho its the druid who always gets the shaft and 5% to my DD in the 45 seconds it works...They could of kept it...

I love Aislynne =)

Would you rather not have 45 people get a 10% effect or 6 people get a 25% effect?


Well, the effect would be useless for 75% to 85% of the raid, regardless, since they aren't casting DDs. Stick the druid in a group with 5 wizards/nukers, and dropping out for the 25% effect makes perfect sense.

Dunno about the rest of you, but I was doing my epic 1.5 mainly for the focus effect although I did expect the click to be somewhat better than it turned out to be.

Re: Kith Event

Possible to one group if ya make the group right with the gear and AAs. Seriously, for my kill we did it with 2 groups with a monk tank and even that was overkill for us.

Sea!
My reply on 'the other forum' =)

Sea!

Concerning the Focus Effect how do we even know if that is even working as intended?
Chubbs

I love you too Chubbs = )

It isnt working. I see no difference in groups or in raid and my group at raids is always 4 wizards a bard and me............I still think they could of done better...

+5% damage on all detrimental spells
-5% damage on all targets melee dps

tied together but random duration (they fade at the same time). That would be druidy.

as for the less hatred part I cast and boom *you have been summoned*
I haven't had the same experience with the actual effect to the epic. The *clicky* still doesn't seem to be doing anything at all. I hope this is being looked into. But for the reduced aggro effect, it seems to be working for me. I was in a Ruined City group and we were fighting the Ukun Fleshhunter. For anyone who has fought this mob, they know that he's not a cakewalk ( at least not for a pre-Time gear group with bots ). At any rate, the cleric (my bot) and I were spamming fast heals on our SK tank in order to keep him alive. Our tank died due to a rough round of hits from the mob and immediately, the cleric took aggro and died. Everyone died in the group except the shaman ( no clue how he lived lol ) and me. We finished off the mob with just us two but my point is...normally I'm the first one to get summoned ( even over the cleric ) and I have SCS3 and she does not. With my epic though, this doesn't seem to be happening.

Everyone died in the group except the shaman ( no clue how he lived lol ) and me.

Shamans have an innate AFK ability. Not slowing = no aggro (and thus, poor sk). hehehe

Or maybe thats just my guild. /shrug

Hope they do something about the effect soon. Was looking forward to doing my second 1.5, but wont even bother with a second useless 1.5. lol

Shamans epic click is a mix of their healing and melee buffing abilities
Clerics is healing and curing
So.. what 2 druid traits do we wanna show? Don't really wanna make another spirit of the wood.


If i'm throwing out 2k nukes, an extra 5% brings me to 2100 if it lands... i sure don't feel very "epic", especially if it's for a few moments, not even a minute.

Gotta make the effect work for both 'houses' of druids.
perhaps if a PC is targeted, it's group 1500 instant-heal + 300 mana
but if a npc was targeted, it was a nuke intensifier debuff like orginally planned.. but more powerful, sheesh.

I am sorry but I don't have a better item in my hand at the moment even with the effects being broken. I am doing the Epic just for the stats for now and when/if it gets changed I will be able to reap the benifits of it then. I can see if you had some time gear in hand thi maybe not being worth it to some for now, but to some it is. Though I agree with every other druid, it needs better effects.

Think we can get a list condensed into something we all can vote on? As it stands there is alot of other Junk here being posted for others to sift through derailing the intent of this thread.

To keep this short my recommendation would be for the ENTIRE epic and not just the effect:

To Fix the epic:
- Change the epic to Primary or Secondary wield
- Remove 1HB
- Put 235 mana inline with the Warriors hp on their epic
- Put AT LEAST the same Saves that the old epic 1.0 had

To Fix the Clicky:
- When clicked, Change the caster into an Animal for the duration (Dunno what animal but make it cool, We're druids. This could address, somewhat the Summit List) (Possibly a Transparent Blue Chimera?)
- Debuff's the Target allowing 5% more incoming damage for Fire, Cold, Magic
- has a Damage over time
- Has a Group recourse healing
- Lower the recast time
- Chromatic resist check at -100

Darleeg

Nothing really to vote on, as whatever effects end up being on it will be something the Dev Team decides. They're looking at them all right now.

- Change the epic to Primary or Secondary wield

Not going to happen, and useless for us, since we can't dual wield. No weapons in the off hand.


- Remove 1HB

Why?


- Put 235 mana inline with the Warriors hp on their epic

We get a mix of mana and hp. It's in line with the other non-warrior epics.


- Put AT LEAST the same Saves that the old epic 1.0 had

Good point.

- Change the epic to Primary or Secondary wield

Not going to happen, and useless for us, since we can't dual wield. No weapons in the off hand.


If it goes to offhand it would no longer be a weapon




- Remove 1HB

Why?

See above.

Adjust resists - agree.
I was disappointed that 1.5 epic lacked poison and disease resists; PR/DR should have at least been +10. And given the initial storyline, perhaps even more resistance to disease would have been appropriate.

Make primary/secondary - sorta agree.
Let's face it, we rarely engage in melee for the melee damage itself, but rather for the chance of proc damage. It's true we have always had to swap out epic to equip proc weapons, but then, some of those weapons had better stats than the old epic anyway. (I'll admit: the 1.5 has novelty value, it's a nice conversation piece, and I'm not ready to stick it in a bag yet, so sue me.)

Replace click effect - agree.
The current effect would have been much more suitable for mages and bards, who have since the Luclin era provided Improved Damage to casters through summoned focus items and songs, respectively. Even if SOE fixed our 1.5 to make Nature's Blight work as its description indicates, the effect would still fall short of what non-epic mages and bards already provide.

Furthermore, the effect (if it worked) still doesn't seem very appropriate for a pure priest class without some sort of healing component, as clerics and shaman 1.5 have.

My suggestion:

1. Fix the Nature's Blight effect. Really shouldn't have to say this, but since it's been several weeks and nothing has been done, apparently we need to remind the dev team that our epic click effect is broken.

2. Add a resist modifier of at least -200, since this is not a spell that we can simply cast until it lands. It's EPIC, for petes sake ... it should have an EPIC chance of landing.

3. Add a "Nature's Blight Recourse" that restores full health to the mob's current target only. This would provide a tangible benefit whether the druid is in a raid or a group. It would not be a group heal (which devs seem reluctant to give us beyond our AA ability). Also, a single target CH-ish effect really wouldn't be unbalancing because it is limited by a recast timer, and limited by being usable only during combat (i.e. can't be cast between fights like heal spells can).

~Firemynd

Nothing really to vote on, as whatever effects end up being on it will be something the Dev Team decides. They're looking at them all right now.

- Change the epic to Primary or Secondary wield

Not going to happen, and useless for us, since we can't dual wield. No weapons in the off hand.


- Remove 1HB

Why?


Removing 1HB makes it a non-weapon so you CAN put it in the off hand since, as you stated, we could not if it was a weapon.

If you want our epic to be a shield like the clerics, just say so.

I think that the effect that is on it should be fixed and stay on the epic but become irrestable and have a secondary effect of a group heal along the lines of the Shaman heal, around 400 per tick.

I also think that the DD effect should maybe stack with other Druids so that if you have 2 Druids casting you get a 10% increase to DDs for the minute it lasts, 3 Druids would of course get you 15% and so on. The healing portion should always be able to stack.

So it would be a 5% increase to DD spells (possibly stackable with other Druids) and a 400 per tick group heal.

I think that would fit both ends of the Druid spectrum.

and have a secondary effect of a group heal along the lines of the Shaman heal, around 400 per tick.

If the dev team is unwilling to give us another form of group heal (as it would seem from their response to our request in previous list submissions), asking for a group heal effect on the 1.5 epic will probably be ignored. That's why I was proposing a single-target 'full heal' on the mob's current target.

If we do want to ask for some sort of healing effect/recourse, I just think we'll have more luck asking for a non-group heal, whether it's what I suggested or something else.

~Firemynd

Just a sec.. everyone on this post is complaining about how useless this weapon is. I do believe I am right in seeing somewhere that this epic is just a checkpoint to get the real thing (which is "the best weapon for the class hands down" 2.0) so that being said.. all we need is to get the bug fixed on our 1.5 and let it be that... You want an EPIC weapon do what they told you too do the 2.0 quest... The stats and effects (as long as they work) are damn good and should be appreciated... for this IS NOT our real epic weapon ... please keep that in mind...

for this IS NOT our real epic weapon ... please keep that in mind...
No, that's wrong. We're comparing it to other Epic 1.5's. It's a valid comparison, and these are valid complaints. All signs point to 2.0 merely having better stats, a more powerful version of the same effect, and more particles. 2x a crappy effect = still crap. And there is no defensible reason why the druid epic, besides the quest being nonsensical at points and still riddled with bugs and issues, is by far one of the most inferior of all epic 1.5's in terms of effect.

Just a sec.. everyone on this post is complaining about how useless this weapon is. I do believe I am right in seeing somewhere that this epic is just a checkpoint to get the real thing (which is "the best weapon for the class hands down" 2.0) so that being said.. all we need is to get the bug fixed on our 1.5 and let it be that... You want an EPIC weapon do what they told you too do the 2.0 quest... The stats and effects (as long as they work) are damn good and should be appreciated... for this IS NOT our real epic weapon ... please keep that in mind...

So... they're handing out raiding guilds to everyone so that they can get Epic 2.0?

Epic 1.5 is going to be the End All be All weapon for a lot of people. Epic 2.0 is going to require a raiding guild and access to Anguish. Most smaller guilds would not be able to manage the sheer amount of time and effort required to get someone their epic 2.0.

Epic 1.5 is a reward for doing the epic quest, but most are not going to be able to progress past it. I certainly won't be able to. The weapon should be comparable to the time and effort put into it, and the effect should not suck. No matter how you slice it, the effect is nearly worthless even if it worked.

You guys have touched on almost everything I want to say, and thanks Sirocco for making yourself so useful!

I'd like to ask Sony though: while they brainstorm a better clicky effect can they at least make the current one work, please? And if it does allready work (hahaha) why can't we see any difference, when in .6 seconds, every 6 mins the clerics can literly turn the fate of a battle? (ooh yes, I have cleric 1.5 envy)

It's been almost a month now, but I'm geting tired of cuting slack for such an obvious problem, especially when Absor is apparently so concerned about epic balance and difficulty.

Comparing to the cleric epic 1.5 effect really isn't fair. That effect is so over powered it is laughable. I seriously don't see how they can claim all epics are of similar power heh.

Anyway, on to the thought about this I had. While I really won't comment on the general value of the click effect, there is a reason it seems gimpier over all at first glance. The effect was designed (I think) with raids in mind. A right click stackable 5% increase to nukes isn't to shabby when you have a healthy number of nukers going to town. Of course this model is flawed due to the 1.5 not being a raid epic at all, but infact the more casual epic.

Thought that somehow that might shed some light as to why the effect is what it is, and maybe help give insight to how to shape and change it. Then again, I might just be crazy.

While I really won't comment on the general value of the click effect

I'll comment on it:
Any raid force with enough nukers to make Nature's Blight meaningful, is a raid force that can get the job done whether this effect is present or not.

Therefore, Nature's Blight is not worthwhile.

And to those who says NB is more of a "raid-useful" effect, I say you're wrong.

NB is supposed to increase damage by 5%.... but *only* when the mob is 70th level or lower. It actually LOSES 10% of its effectiveness for each level the mob is above 70. E.g. if mob is 75th level, NB (if it was even working as designed) would only debuff for 2.5% improved damage -- not 5%.

The whole point of gathering a raid force is to tackle mobs bigger and higher level than us. If the effect gets weaker against higher level mobs, it goes from being insignificant to being completely unnoticeable.

In my opinion, this is about as far from an "epic" effect as SOE could have possibly made it.

~Firemynd

Make the new epic 1.5 a secondary or range slot item, thus retaining our 1.0 epic dot.
Change the click effect to summon a lvl 60 pet, which is on the same par with beastlord, ranger and necro pets.

Epic 1.5 is going to be the End All be All weapon for a lot of people. Epic 2.0 is going to require a raiding guild and access to Anguish.

Thank you for restating this as I think some people have forgotten this fact. I am not guilded and I most likely will not be guilded in the near future. I like to play EQ with my RL friends and I know there are others out there like me. I have my epic and I love my epic, for the stats. The effect is still worthless - it's broken. And that is a major problem still. The people saying that this isn't supposed to be a real "epic" are wrong. For most of us, this will be the final epic. For those in uber raiding guilds that will see Anguish and can get a raiding force together of 50+ folks, they will most likely get their final 2.0 epic, if they wish to do the quest. For me ( and others like me ), I haven't even looked at the 2.0 epic because there is absolutely no way that I will be able to obtain this weapon. So, please keep in mind that most players are not in major, high-end raiding guilds.

Also, why would some people want a pet for an effect on this weapon? Druids have never been a "pet" class. Yes, we can charm, dire charm animals and we have a level 28/29 bear pet that is absolutely worthless ( but cute! hehe ) but does this make pets our best ability?!? Absolutely not! Would I personally want a pet for a clicky on my epic weapon as a druid? Hell no. Sorry. I would love for our epic to represent what us druids do - we're the secondary healers in the entire game so we should have some sort of healing effect on our weapon and we're also pretty darn good nukers. I'd love some of the other effects folks are requesting, such as a group heal + some sort of damage modifier. Actually, just give me the shaman epic effect and I'd be happy :whistle:

Pradera

And to those who says NB is more of a "raid-useful" effect, I say you're wrong.

NB is supposed to increase damage by 5%.... but *only* when the mob is 70th level or lower. It actually LOSES 10% of its effectiveness for each level the mob is above 70. E.g. if mob is 75th level, NB (if it was even working as designed) would only debuff for 2.5% improved damage -- not 5%.

Ummmm, no actually that is not the way it is supposed to work at all. The cap there isn't for the mob, it's for the spells that it focuses. You have to realize that the spell is acting like a focus effect, and is thus following all of the rules that the other foci do.

Notice a bit from Nature's blight: Limit: Max Level (70) (lose 10% per level over cap)

From IDV: Limit: Max Level (70) (lose 10% per level over cap)

From IHV: Limit: Max Level (70) (lose 10% per level over cap)

That is the line that limits max level of the spell and how much it works beyond the max level. The way lucy reports it is confusing, but the effect has nothing to do with mob levels. Nature's Blight might work like that the way it is now, but if it does then that is a bug.

Any raid force with enough nukers to make Nature's Blight meaningful, is a raid force that can get the job done whether this effect is present or not.

Yes, and your point is? There is no current epic effect that will make or break any class that has it. Honestly, saying that the effect wouldn't be required for a raid is a horrible reason to say that it is broken. The devs have said they do not want these items to become mandatory for any class to have, so don't expect an effect on any of them that will literally make or break their contribution to a group or raid. The clickoes are meant to be nice additions to your current power. I am not saying that the druid effect is fine as is, but you are expecting way to much if you think it will ever become a required effect.

I think the best change that can be made is to have the effect become a group buff/self buff or whatever so as to limit it's power in that respect and provide overall a better effect for grouping/soloing druids. Obviously it would still need work past that, but I think it is a required step to get it to anything very useful.

There is no current epic effect that will make or break any class that has it.
Cleric epic 1.0 does just that. And dont discount the amazing convenience and power their 1.5 gives them, especially since it can be used from inventory, and every 6 minutes to boot.

The shaman epic 1.5 gives them (in addition to a new OoW AA) an ability they've never had before... a group heal. So, in effect, they have twice the group healing powers (skill with Q aside) with their epic 1.5 that a druid does with theirs (since druids only have the AA, which only had its timer lowered after literally years of complaints.) You'd have to be a pretty silly shaman not to want that kind of additional group desirability (in addition to everything else they offer) from an item.

I think balance through itemization sucks, big time. However, it's clear that they've ignored the warnings and have done it anyway, offering substantial increases in power to two out of the three priests via the epic1.5, leaving the third with a broken effect for over a month with no explanation, which even if it worked, would still suck compared to nearly all the other epic 1.5 effects.

Ummmm, no actually that is not the way it is supposed to work at all. The cap there isn't for the mob, it's for the spells that it focuses. You have to realize that the spell is acting like a focus effect, and is thus following all of the rules that the other foci do.

Okay, so you're saying that our epic gets an automatic nerf as soon as an expansion comes along to raise level caps again. Or, that we will have to do yet another 'new' epic quest to gain a focus that works on higher level spells? Meanwhile, other priest epics will continue to work indefinitely because they're independent of spell levels.

One of the biggest complaints with OoW was the loss of effectiveness from all focus items of all previous expansions ... so what did they do? Apply that same drawback to our epic. Only difference, the nerf won't happen right now. Certainly something to look forward to isn't it?

That is the line that limits max level of the spell and how much it works beyond the max level. The way lucy reports it is confusing, but the effect has nothing to do with mob levels. Nature's Blight might work like that the way it is now, but if it does then that is a bug.

Forgive us for not being able to confirm or deny this. You see, our epic click effect is still broken. Doesn't do anything at all. Not a damned thing.

~Firemynd

Cleric epic 1.0 does just that. And dont discount the amazing convenience and power their 1.5 gives them, especially since it can be used from inventory, and every 6 minutes to boot.

Sorry, I shoould have specified epic 1.5. Looking to the first epics for balance is going to be counter productive. And as I stated, the cleric 1.5 is seriously way more powerful than any other click effect.

The shaman epic 1.5 gives them (in addition to a new OoW AA) an ability they've never had before... a group heal. So, in effect, they have twice the group healing powers (skill with Q aside) with their epic 1.5 that a druid does with theirs (since druids only have the AA, which only had its timer lowered after literally years of complaints.) You'd have to be a pretty silly shaman not to want that kind of additional group desirability (in addition to everything else they offer) from an item.

I actually completely forgot that shamans didn't have a group HoT. For somereason I thought their spells had been changed to that. I have yet to see the clicky in action though, so I can't comment on it's over all usefulness, but it does seem alot higher than most epics.

The big problem seems that most priest epic are alot better than most epics (with the obvious exception). The Wizard epic is pretty bad, as is the enchanter one. The monk one and the bard one are not spectacular. The necro one might be decent if they have fixed all of the bugs it had. The epic effects for most classes just are not that epic. I really think they need to redo alot of the epics. The balance of power for effects is seriously just not there. But this is all a big tangent really, and I am sorry for having created it.

I think balance through itemization sucks, big time. However, it's clear that they've ignored the warnings and have done it anyway, offering substantial increases in power to two out of the three priests via the epic1.5, leaving the third with a broken effect for over a month with no explanation, which even if it worked, would still suck compared to nearly all the other epic 1.5 effects.

I just think their itemization sucks big time, and I agree balance through items is stupid.

Okay, so you're saying that our epic gets an automatic nerf as soon as an expansion comes along to raise level caps again. Or, that we will have to do yet another 'new' epic quest to gain a focus that works on higher level spells? Meanwhile, other priest epics will continue to work indefinitely because they're independent of spell levels.

As it stand nows, yes. I have pointed these things out for no reason other than to help give a better picture of what is going on, as I don't think anyone had seen it quite the way I have. I could be wrong, but the conclusions I have drawn seem fairly logical. While fighting for a new epic effect at this point would be hard, it might be possible. I am just trying to supply all the objective information that I feel would help you build a better arguement.

I am just trying to supply all the objective information that I feel would help you build a better arguement.

While that might be true, we've continually made at least one irrefutable argument: our epic click effect is broken. Devs have not responded to acknowledge this fact, and Absor (who designed the quest) has only made a vague statement like "all epics are being looked into" -- pretty pathetic IMO.

~Firemynd

While that might be true, we've continually made at least one irrefutable argument: our epic click effect is broken. Devs have not responded to acknowledge this fact, and Absor (who designed the quest) has only made a vague statement like "all epics are being looked into" -- pretty pathetic IMO.


I agree it is pathetic considering the whole hype and draw to OOW was the epic. And it is very sad that over a month has gone by and we have yet to even get any feedback that would even hint that they know its Broken....I dont feel like I accomplished anything getting 1.5 what I feel is cheated.....

It's inexcusable for SOE to not even confirm that they know the darn thing is broken.

Other classes had all the servers brought down when there was an issue with theirs. We cannot even get a real confirmation. Even when you could not finish the darn thing the only reply we got was that the Community Rep turned game designer was on vacation at launch (that was real bright!) and it could not be fixed until he returned.

Not only was the darn quest not tested properly but the effect was not even tested. Now we cannot even get word that they know it's broken or when it will be fixed.

It's almost like they own stock in WoW and want us all to quit EQ ROTFL

Does anyone know how many class epics asside from the druids were not tested, did not work and had the designer go on vacation at launch?

-Cass

P.S. to appease all the Absor lovers out there: It was an original roleplay quest (had many loose ends that made no sense and was only solved by brute force) yadda yadda yadda and I'm sure he worked very hard on his buggy untested quest.

P.P.S. Any way we can find out what other quests Absor had a hand in creating? Would be nice to know so I don't bother to even start them :)

Does anyone know how many class epics asside from the druids were not tested, did not work and had the designer go on vacation at launch?

A couple of them actually. Off hand I know the wizard epic actually had the reverse effect that it was listed as, and the necro epic was broken twice. First when it was solved there was a range of 0 on the pet so it could never be used. Then the lifetap was broken. Don't know if they fixed the lifetap yet.

3 things i gotta say

- I did the kithicor event with 8 people
- I dont want the epic to be a shield
- The effect is crap, even if it would work.


I cant believe some people are happy with the current effect. You must be blind, omg compare it to the shaman or cleric epic. Ours is GIMP.

I cant believe some people are happy with the current effect. You must be blind, omg compare it to the shaman or cleric epic. Ours is GIMP.

Not really necessary to compare our 1.5's effect to the cleric's or shaman's.

Even if it worked, Nature's Blight (as currently listed) would provide a benefit too insignificant to qualify as "epic" in today's game -- and that's assuming the most ideal circumstance: used in big raids with lots of nukers. Outside of that narrow use, the effect would be hardly noticeable at all. One could easily contend that the original 1.0 epic's effect was more useful and complimented more playstyles, and its stats (most notably, resists) were more well-rounded.

Yes, NB would be more 'priestly' if it had a healing component, but I wouldn't be bent out of shape if that isn't in the cards. However, if we're to be the game's offense priests, give us something that either puts out some damage, or enhances ALL of our detrimental spells beyond what common focus effects can provide. And most importantly, make sure it is just as useful in single-group settings as it is in raids.

~Firemynd

As a side note, someone noticed and posted in another thread (http://thedruidsgrove.org/forums/showthread.php?p=147241#post147241) about the druid epic 1.5 effect...

Not only does it last only one minute, but it wears off after 10 "hits" - not sure whether that's just spell hits or any kind of hit heh.

Donald Trump just called. He wants to see the person from Sony who designed the Druid 1.5 epic effects in the board room in thirty minutes.

Wow, in light of that new discorery... our epic is a piece of ****...

However, if we're to be the game's offense priests, give us something that either puts out some damage, or enhances ALL of our detrimental spells beyond what common focus effects can provide. And most importantly, make sure it is just as useful in single-group settings as it is in raids.

So if it were more effective you would be happy? Say 10-15% instead? Just trying to get things straight in my head. Obviosuly this is assuming the effect worked as intended.

So if it were more effective you would be happy? Say 10-15% instead?

There are more issues with the current effect than its raw percentage, as I've pointed out in other posts. If I was to design the effect, and it was to be limited to detrimental only (no healing component), it would look something like this:

More impact, less utility.

1. Unresistable; or a steep modifier (-200).
2. Increase all fire- and cold-based damage spells by 30%.
3. Duration 1 minute.
4. Refresh timer 10 minutes.

-or-

Less impact, more utility.

1. Standard resist vs. magic, -50 modifier.
2. Increase all damage spells (including DoTs) by 10%.
3. Duration 1 minute.
4. Refresh timer 1 minute (can maintain on a single mob for a longer fight, but can only affect one mob at a time).

-or-

Something altogether different ...

1. Unresistable; or a steep modifier (-200).
2. Strip immunities from a mob, such as those immune to changes in runspeed, slow spells, stuns, certain types of attack, etc.
3. Duration 1 minute (any snares, debuffs, or dots cast during that minute would last their natural duration).
4. Refresh timer 15 minutes.

I don't see any of the above three options as more powerful than a click effect which heals and cures the weilder's entire group.

~Firemynd

IMHO it should also be "epic" in single groups and not just on raids. Not all Druids raid and even the ones that do are not on raids all the time.

Considering how useless it is on raids you cane imagine how underwhelmed I am to get the epic as a non-raider.

In fact, our Epic 1.0 is far better for both raids and non-raids - effect wise.

I would rather have that free 1500'ish damage from the 1.0 than this silly resistable damage boost on the 1.5.

-Cass

And after they fix the effect, how about fixing the quest for 2.0 ><

Clerics are leaving in droves as are other classes. Problem is when clerics leave, raiding stops.

SoE is aware of this, hence the shield and very nice effect that they get. If they gave clerics an epic 1.5 similiar to ours the number leaving would increase drastically.

SoE screwed the game up when they made clerics crucial to high end game and allowed them a lock on it. Since they felt it unnecessary to truly balance the other priest classes this is what they can look forward to.

If they gave clerics an epic 1.5 similiar to ours the number leaving would increase drastically.


I don't want clerics to have a 1.5 epic effect like mine. I want mine to be more like the cleric 1.5 effect.

Of course, I don't really buy your theory in the first place. If SOE wanted to keep clerics in the game, it would have given them invis...:P

... ours more like theirs.

And they did give them invis.... they gave us fixed duration we can cast on them in some half hearted attempt to make us more useful.

Sad that the epic 1.0 effect will most often do more dmg than 1.5 or even 2.0.

Epic 1.0 does 1650 dmg without Critical Affliction AAs.

At best, Epic 1.5 would add 2035 dmg to the mob. This assumes 2 things: The only nukes that land are "Ancient Core Fire", and that the effect effect is a fixed 5%.

Most likely, you will have other nukes landing. Say you have 3 druid ancients land, 3 mage ancients, and 4 wiz. This would be a total of 30,092 base damage. 5% of that is 1,504. If indeed the epic effect is random and not fixed at 5%, this number would be even lower.

Rediculous