How does a feral druid tank as compared to a war. What does one have to do to keep mobs off everyone else and when should a tank switch out to cast(the druid part of the question). Also, what would I do if I were an OT/OH(which is the role I usually take on in my group). Bear in mind,I am mostly feral but will have some resto points.

thanks for the any input in advance

I'm usually off tank, sometimes main tank when the off tank can't keep aggro.

To help keep aggro in bear we have the following tools -
Demoralizing Roar
Swipe
Growl
Challenging Roar

I only use Challenging Roar when there's just too many to keep off my healer(s) and I can pull them all onto me an use that with Swipe to keep them on me ( for the most part ). This has saved a party on more than one occassion.

When the tank is holding aggro well, you can drop back to caster ( or cat ) and add some dps with moonfire ( or melee with cat ). Always drop a Faerie Fire on every target you can. A MUST have spell and talent in Feral Form ( IMO ).

If you see the tank taking too much damage on the main healer is getting dire in terms of mana, drop back and take over the healer position while the healer regains some mana. Don't drop and really big heals if you can avoid it since it will lessen your chance of pulling aggro.

Feral Charge is also a useful tool. If you're tanking up front, and one of your mobs makes a dash for the healer, charge them. They will be immobilised and a quick maul should have them hating you plenty again. So much easier than trying to chase mobs around by hand..

I think (although have yet to do solid tests) that mobs taking damage from thorns also generates aggro towards the person they are hitting.


I have also heard (although I can't confirm this) that Maul generates more aggro than any other non-taunt ability in the game. ie more than a warriors heroic strike or sunder armour. I guess it depends on the amount of damage as well, but it's the aggro multiplier that I'm talking about..


-Annik

I 'm seeing many good armor pieces for a feral suit in the AH lately and was wondering if y'all recommend a devilsaur outfit (gauntlets/leggings) as a good balanced diet for feral? Also, what about warbear woolies?

Still keeping an eye out for the warden staff but nothing yet!

Warden Staff and Cloak of Warding are 2 essential pieces for bears to have higher-than-average armour class.

Also, if you have access to Lava Cores from molten core, see if you can find a leatherworker who can make you a lava belt. This belt has more AC than most mail belts.. and lots of stamina and a ****load of Fire Resistance to boot. It's a purple (Epic) item, incidentally, and can be made by Dragonscale Leatherworkers who are honoured or better with the Thorium Brotherhood.

Warbear Woolies are damn nice.. I would say you're better off going with agility as a bear though. It seems a bit counterintuitive but a cat form specced druid needs lots of strength and a bear form druid is best off with lots of agility. And stamina. And AC.

The Devilsaur set is nice, but I would avoid it if I were you, purely because it looks like you're wearing a piece of ship's rigging. Ugh. :)

A Warbear Harness is an _excellent_ alternative, as it has heaps and heaps of stamina.


To summarise the items I have suggested..
Chest: Warbear Harness
Waist: Lava Belt
Weapon: Warden Staff
Back: Cloak of Warding


-Annik

To summarise the items I have suggested..
Chest: Warbear Harness
Waist: Lava Belt
Weapon: Warden Staff
Back: Cloak of Warding




Much appreciated, Annik...do you have an idea what AC I can get from this combo? I was told AC's nice but not as important as most ppl think...what do you think about that statement?

I believe the theoretical maximum AC that can be achieved is in the region of 15500. That's on the understanding that you have access to BWL, MC, AQ, and any and all rare world drops.

AC is important, but once you get about around about 11,000 its importance starts to diminish. The reason for this is that all AC really does is affect another stat - damage reduction. To illustrate why AC becomes less important as the numbers become higher, lets take this (not to scale) example:

You have 500 armour class. This results in a damage reduction ratio of 15%. You win an item that gives you an additional 100 armour. Your damage reduction increases to 18%.

Conversely, a warrior has 8000 armour, yielding a damage reduction ratio of 60%. He wins that same item, granting an extra 100 armour, and his damage reduction goes to 60.5%.

It's what I would call an inverse economy of scale, or an inverse exponential. The higher your armour class, the less extra damage reduction 100 armour will give you.

So 10 extra armour when you are starting with 50 armour is a massive difference. 10 extra armour when you have 500 armour is a much smaller difference.


To reach the theoretical maximum AC, you would have to sacrifice lots of other very useful stats such as stamina and +skill defence. Generally speaking, you should try to balance your gear to have a reasonable amount of all 3 of these things. As to what a reasonable balance between them is, is a subject of much debate... However it is useful to know that at 420 defence skill, there is nothing in the game that can score a critical strike against you, not including PvP. Defence skill also increases your chance to dodge, and decreases the chance of large mobs scoring a "crushing blow" against you.

I hope this has shed some light on the subject for you. If you have any other questions I'd be happy to answer them, as I'm at work and it's quiet and I am very bored. :P


-Annik

I believe the theoretical maximum AC that can be achieved is in the region of 15500. That's on the understanding that you have access to BWL, MC, AQ, and any and all rare world drops.

Amazing ... 15,500 sounds awesome, but yeah that is quite unrealistic for me.

It's what I would call an inverse economy of scale, or an inverse exponential. The higher your armour class, the less extra damage reduction 100 armour will give you.

Generally speaking, you should try to balance your gear to have a reasonable amount of all 3 of these things. As to what a reasonable balance between them is, is a subject of much debate... However it is useful to know that at 420 defence skill, there is nothing in the game that can score a critical strike against you, not including PvP. Defence skill also increases your chance to dodge, and decreases the chance of large mobs scoring a "crushing blow" against you.



Ok so yeah I need a balance for sure... does the combo you quoted as best, provide that balance?

I can't remember whether the warden staff and the Cloak of Warding have skill defence on them or not. Either way, they are very good items for a bear. If you check them out and discover that they are lacking one of the three, do an advanced search of www.thottbot.com for leather items that give the stat you need.

I'd be interested to know how you get on.. :)


-Annik

Here's some good reading

http://evilempireguild.org/guides/

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=702194&p=1&tmp=1#post702194

Points to note -

- AC cap is 16500, or 75% DR apparently. There is no real dimishing returns until then. Section 6 of the WoWforum sticky has a nice chart on how increase'n AC might appear to dimmish in the tool tip, but functionally keeps you alive just as long as the AC gains that appear to give greater % reduction.

- +def doesn't work against crushing blows. This was brought up here in the gear forums I think.. +def only helps against crushing blows if your below your level's def cap... i.e. at level 60 your at 295/300 defense. It still helps as a stat.. just not for CB's.

Some priest will sell me his cloak of warding for 100g...good deal or no?

Allakhazam has it averaging about 80
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=18413

The expensive mats for a Cloak of Wardening are Guardian Stones form the Stone Guardians in Un'goro... level 60-61 elietes. Any druid build at 60 can solo these guys Root-parking... They are kinda tough to bear down from my experience due to their AC/hp's... so stick with Starfire/Roots.. if you run out of mana, you can just root/regen.

So, if you can wait till 60, I'd save the gold.

Much appreciated, Annik...do you have an idea what AC I can get from this combo? I was told AC's nice but not as important as most ppl think...what do you think about that statement?

AC is good at reducing physical damage taken and that is it. That can be a really really good thing, but it is not the only thing.

It won't help reduce magical damge at all, as in zero effect, nada, might as well be naked. So if you intend on tanking in MC or AQ you're going to need to get those fire and nature resistances up just as importantly (if not more)

+def is also really key for avoiding crits, effectively raises your level so you can face off against higher level mobs without penalty.

What I would also like to know is what is are good key items for an OT/OH? Like what can I mix to help on the tanking, yet when I have to heal, what can help[ me still be effective?

Also, is hybrid armor good for raids or do I have to get specific for what I want?

One last thing, What types of gear are good for PvP?

Oh! another thing, Can I use hurricane or tranquility to gain mad aggro if needed? Or are there any casting spells that can help with aggro?
thanks

Also, is hybrid armor good for raids or do I have to get specific for what I want?



I'm trying desperately to come up with a decent set of hybrid armor and it's not going too well...closest thing i can come up with is Eagle or Falcon armor (both are rare to come by in the AH, btw). I'm working on stam, int, and agility for that suit. Feral gear's way easier to come by.

To answer your question though, imo, I can get by with hybrid armor in the BGs, but i wouldn't use it in a raid/instance.

Hurricane generates quite a bit of aggro, yes.

Not sure about Tranquility.

One thing that can really help u with ac.

1. Ring of protection
2. Make of tyranne
3. Smoking heart of the mountain


What i have done is build up three sets of gear. I use itemrack to manage the 40+ items that i carry around.

First thing i did was pvp to get me a core suit. With your core pvp suit and

1. Warden staff or the maul from dm
2. Mark of tyranne
3. Smoking heart of the mountain
4. Ring of protection
5. cloak or warding

U should break 10k ac or come darn close to it.

I do most of my tanking between 11k to 13k range. Btw the more ac the better of u are.

I try and keep my hp over 7k. Though for some of the fights i go all out and can hit over 8500hp but my ac suffers a great deal.

I tend to run around +23 defense. To me defense is over rated for druids. I wouldnt get overly concerned with it. As u can really take some serious hits on stats if u try and get a bunch. At least pre aq gear that was the case.


I been a tank on clearing mc for my guild before. Hated it btw. Darn gaints hit hard and the kb has a agro debuff to it. So u have to be ready to tend with it.

Only very lately has any decent hybrid gear become available, and its usefulness is still in question. In gneral in a raid you will likely only change roles in an emergency, so most of the time you would be better off with specialized gear.

I've actually yet to see a warrior be as good at tanking as I am. I've played a warrior before so maybe my knowledge of tanking helps, but I really have shown up all the warriors I've been around lately.

It's really easy to grab and maintain aggro:

1. Always enrage before pulling if you can. Gets your rage prepped.

2. Use faerie fire to pull (of course).

3. Once a mob is running at you, use feral charge (many people don't even know a druid can charge).

4. Once you've charged, use demo roar, it will aggro any additional mobs that came with the pull.

5. Hit the mob you pulled with Faerie fire once or twice then switch targets and start swiping.

6. After about 3 hits per target, you switch targets and continue using swipe as it pops up. Only stay on a target if a rogue/hunter/mage/lock is dpsing it.

7. Taunt if/when needed. I actually did BRD without taunting once and was the only person to take damage the entire run. =)


IF <---- big IF.

If you lose aggro from an overzealous priest/dps class, shift out of bear form and cast regrowth and rejuvination on the person being attacked. You will most likely grab aggro very quickly due to not having subtltey talent. Then shift back to bear and taunt just to be on the safe side.

Somewhere on the wow forums someone did the math on Warriors and Druid TPS (threat per second) and I believe that druid bear form does have higher TPS than warriors. Just FYI.

Zul'Gurub gears are high armor caster gears (Haruspex+animist). It has good set bonus for balance druid.

I am a restore/feral (34/17) druid. I use

ZG gear (or Volcanic gear)
Mark of Tyranny
Smoking Heart
Warden Staff
Cloak of Warding
Ring of Protection
Band of the giant tortoise

But even before ZG, it's possible to hit 10k armor.

Now at 12k armor, I don't hold aggro in Scholo/BRD as well. Why? Because I don't get enough rage.

On the other hand, the 12k armor + 100 ish FR (all from non-MC content) makes it possible to OT MC non-boss things.

I would only add + crit gear/AP gear if your not holding agro... till then I'd rock as much ac as possible. I wouldn't cast Hurricane or Tranquility for agro... maybe for a pull with Huricane... I've used bombs and dynamite in the past for a similiar burst of group agro.

Hybrid gear's always been in the game, but it's only really aviable at 55+

Songbird Blouse
Death's Clutch
Boots of the Shrieker
Wild Heart Kilt (and belt too iirc)
Bonering Helm

The best hybrid gear is the Defiler/AB rep armor. Int+agil+attack power+sta+nutty AC = the love'n

Hey guys, thanks for all the info. 1. It puts my faith back into being a feral druid and 2. Now I can tank and not suck so much at it.And as to the previous comment, I will have to buy my mounts which will drain all the gold I bought,and really, is there such thing as too much gold? =-D

But even before ZG, it's possible to hit 10k armor.




Do share a sample list of items that will provide 10k AC.

I believe the theoretical maximum AC that can be achieved is in the region of 15500. That's on the understanding that you have access to BWL, MC, AQ, and any and all rare world drops.

AC is important, but once you get about around about 11,000 its importance starts to diminish. The reason for this is that all AC really does is affect another stat - damage reduction. To illustrate why AC becomes less important as the numbers become higher, lets take this (not to scale) example:

You have 500 armour class. This results in a damage reduction ratio of 15%. You win an item that gives you an additional 100 armour. Your damage reduction increases to 18%.

Conversely, a warrior has 8000 armour, yielding a damage reduction ratio of 60%. He wins that same item, granting an extra 100 armour, and his damage reduction goes to 60.5%.

It's what I would call an inverse economy of scale, or an inverse exponential. The higher your armour class, the less extra damage reduction 100 armour will give you.

So 10 extra armour when you are starting with 50 armour is a massive difference. 10 extra armour when you have 500 armour is a much smaller difference.


To reach the theoretical maximum AC, you would have to sacrifice lots of other very useful stats such as stamina and +skill defence. Generally speaking, you should try to balance your gear to have a reasonable amount of all 3 of these things. As to what a reasonable balance between them is, is a subject of much debate... However it is useful to know that at 420 defence skill, there is nothing in the game that can score a critical strike against you, not including PvP. Defence skill also increases your chance to dodge, and decreases the chance of large mobs scoring a "crushing blow" against you.

I hope this has shed some light on the subject for you. If you have any other questions I'd be happy to answer them, as I'm at work and it's quiet and I am very bored. :P


-Annik

Whoa. That did a lot more then shed 'some' light on teh subject. you blasted him and me and fellow newcomer druids with a light ray...:clap:

Do share a sample list of items that will provide 10k AC.

Ring of Protection
Tortise Band
Cloak of Warding
Warden Staff
Slaghide Gauntlets of 'X'
Athali' Spaulders of 'X'
Mark of Tyranny
Smoking Heart of the Mt.
Defilers Lizardhide belt (only honored with AB to get it)

I'm pretty sure if you had 7 outta 9 of these items and reasonable' gear in the other slots you could hit 10k armor.... if your not 60' tho I wouldn't worry about getting 10k armor more then I would about getting level 60 8)