Hello all. I love The Druids Grove. There is a lot of experience here. Thanks to all who have posted their guides. When I read posts from Annik I really see myself. I have read quite a bit on how valuable both OoC and NS are. I have had the 0/30/21 (HoTW + NS) in mind. NS to raise my value in end game instances and HotW for obvious effects. But recently, I have read (I think an Annik post) how the procs from OoC considerably increase your effectiveness in feral. I love the feral tree and how the rogue trees all wrap up well into one druid tree, so I want to keep it. I need an opinion on which skill has more value. NS or OoC. For each can you describe the best talents in those trees to get the points for OoC/NS?


Also, if I choose OoC, should I grab LotP, or drop more points in resto (currently have 5 points into the skill that gives you energy/rage when you shift *forget the name*)

Thanks in advance!

NS will not make you a better dps'er in Cat, OoC will.

However NS will make you a viable healer in end-game raids, when another healer is more needed than another dps'er.

So the answer is what you want to be better at, and its a personal choice, the only thing anyone here can tell you is what they enjoy more.

I want to be a strong threat in PVP and deal a good amount of DPS in end game raids. But I have a feeling healing is going to be asked of me, so a nice balance of feral and resto might be best. If I could just go feral wity OoC I probably would, but I don't think druids are asked on raids for their dps. Someone prove me wrong please.

0/30/21 with some good gear should make you a viable healer ( not from experience mind you ) but it should let you do some nice PvPing and dealing damage while still being a viable healer ( with different gear sets of feral and healer mind you ).

I'm interested in others opinion on this build and it's viability as a healer though.

I have always felt that if your going to be feral, OOC is great talent that can really increase dps. Natures Swiftness is not that necessary as a healbot. It may save your butt once but is definatly not necessary.

The real power of Natures Swiftness is for a quick heal when your in forms and need health or instant casting sleep/roots. Both are good skills but I feel if you are taking so much damage that you need to instant heal yourself....your not going to last long enough to make any use of the skill.

Thank you all for the input. Last night I hit lvl 45 and made the decision to grab LotP and move to the balance tree to talent up to OoC. I know this will make my heals less effective, but I am with a good bunch of people who understand feral. I have a feeling down the road I may have to do the 0/30/21, maybe when I am 60. For now. OoC just sounds too good.

I was 0/30/21 up until about 4 weeks ago. I went back into resto because all I was doing was raids and i decided that I like to play healer in raids.

OOC is nice for Feral but I guess personally i was never that impressed with it. Maybe because I was bad about remembering to recast it :P. I personally find NS to be much more valuable for myself and for others. At one time I was 14/32/5 but later changed to 0/30/21. Since then I have prevented many a death with a quick NS HT. sure its on a timer, but for the most part it has always been ready when I needed it most. I beleive that NS is even more valuble than innervate. Maybe thats why Im once again thinking of respecing back to 0/30/21.

When I was still 0/30/21 I was always in the top 30% of the healing meters and honestly I have yet to see Innervate save the day, but NS has. Last sunday I think I used Innervate one time in MC, and that was a complete clearing including Rag.

sorry for rambling. I know this was not an innervate thread :P

To quicken the pace to 60, I think OoC will reward well...if I can remember to recast it....but Cosmos helps there. 0/30/21 sounds yummy though. I remember having NS on my enh/resto shaman and it "saved the day". Good for those occasions when you know it's time to retreat, you have been snared and your gonna die unless you can get the NS/Heal off.

0/30/21 with some good gear should make you a viable healer ( not from experience mind you ) but it should let you do some nice PvPing and dealing damage while still being a viable healer ( with different gear sets of feral and healer mind you ).

I'm interested in others opinion on this build and it's viability as a healer though.

Personally, and I'm not at 60 yet, but with a 0/31/18 temp, I didn't like my poor MP pool. I healed more often than not, and it would sap it dry easily...the only thing that has saved me in terms of cranking out more heals is Baden's ManaSaver (godsend). Raid-wise, it seems there are never enough healers, and I was going through mana like crazy (luckily, a very nice mage handed over 40 water). I respecced for like the 4th time last night, to 0/16/33 (last 2 TP will round up feral) and can't wait to try it out. I tend to cast more anyway so I'm sure I'll have more fun and efficiency with a larger MP pool.

I think with the right feral gear, I'll still have decent MP, and of course, great HP/AC.

Heart of the Wild has been mentioned on more than one occasion as the feral druids answer to mana. Owl gear (int/spirit) for healing occasions & feral(str/agi or agi/sta) for times you will be tanking or dps'ing. I am onboard wit the person who said somewhere in this "spells and talent" forum that you really need to go heavy in at least one tree to be effective. In my limited experience as a druid, I'd have to think you basically have 4 options. Innervate resto healer, Feral/NS, Feral/OoC, or Moonkin. Someone will strike me down here I know it. But please educate. My ears are open.

I have been thinking lately about 24/0/27 for moonglow, natures grace, and tranquil spirit and some improved regrowth.

You'd give up the innervate, but get a 19% reduced cost on HT's, and with the crits from the regrowth could use Nature's Grace Procs to really speed up HT casting. When you didn't want to heal, or there wasn't as much need, you'd have some real nice MF nukes too.

I'd like to hear more on Moonkins...I don't know enough about them to make a judgement call.

Other than the fact they look like Barney with antlers and shoot purple streams of lightning out of their stomachs (lol), I don't think I'd wanna spec to one.

If you look further down the list of threads in this part of the forum there are a couple of good discussions on moonkins about to slide on to page two.

If you have any specific questions I'd be happy to answer them for you.

Heart of the Wild has been mentioned on more than one occasion as the feral druids answer to mana. Owl gear (int/spirit) for healing occasions & feral(str/agi or agi/sta) for times you will be tanking or dps'ing. I am onboard wit the person who said somewhere in this "spells and talent" forum that you really need to go heavy in at least one tree to be effective. In my limited experience as a druid, I'd have to think you basically have 4 options. Innervate resto healer, Feral/NS, Feral/OoC, or Moonkin. Someone will strike me down here I know it. But please educate. My ears are open.

I dont have any good experience with the balance tree so I cant really comment there. Feral and resto I can give you my veiws.

I have tried both 14/32/5 and 0/30/21 feral builds and I have been very effective in pvp and pve, both solo and in groups. I would simply adapt to the situation, switching gear depending on the group makeup and my role in it.

Right now I am 13/0/38 and I heal full time. am I a more effective healer now than when I was 0/30/21? I dont really think so. I mean what defines an effective healer? Healing meters? Hell no! Did you run out of mana to soon? Did anyone die in your group? If the answer is no then you were effective no matter the spec.

That is actually what has me thinking of going back to 0/30/21. I always did heal well and dont I see anything different with my current resto spec.

I have tried both 14/32/5 and 0/30/21 feral builds and I have been very effective in pvp and pve, both solo and in groups. I would simply adapt to the situation, switching gear depending on the group makeup and my role in it.

Anubrim....it is the 14/32/5 path that I am now headed down.....since I have grabbed LotP already I figured I had better stick with this for a while. I wonder how long I will last before I respec to 0/30/21. I find myself buying up feral and healing gear. I guess I'll just have to guage it on how the demand is for healing.

We know were gonna heal. Can you shed some light on just how much I stand to lose in effectiveness as 14/32/5 vs 0/30/21 please?

Well, you'll lose natural weapons so that's 10% damage. You lose some mana savings from shapeshifter. On the positive side, you now have a 'free life' button and can easily heal most instances.

0/30/21 does just fine. IMO the best all-around build there is.

Well, you'll lose natural weapons so that's 10% damage. You lose some mana savings from shapeshifter. On the positive side, you now have a 'free life' button and can easily heal most instances.

0/30/21 does just fine. IMO the best all-around build there is.

I agree with Create in that 0/30/21 is the best all around build. However if maximising your dps is your priority 14/32/5 is the way to go.

When I was running alot of BG's trying to rank up I was 14/32/5. Whenever I had to pug it I would stay in my Feral gear and tear things up. When I had the opportunity to get into one of the good organised cp farming groups I always knew that I got in becasue I could heal, and even though I was heavy feral I healed good enough to keep getting invited back. You can be an effective healer with 14/32/5 if you have decent healing gear, just not as mana efficient as say a resto spec.

Once I stopped grinding for cp'c and started doing more instance running I went to 0/30/21. Really like this build alot. You can still put out some good dps but when you need to you are a very effective healer.

NS is definately a great talent to have. It has saved my ass and several others many times since i respec'ed.
I would say give then both a try and see what you like. Yes, most people will expect you to heal but dont let them dictate your play style. On the other hand never forget that you can heal. A good druid uses all their skills to be the most effective IMO.

On a side note, I just repeced back to 0/30/21 from 13/0/38. Our raiding crew has enough healers these days so I decided to respec once more. Just hated to see my feral gear rotting in the bank :P.

Mana fully raid buffed is 8400.
Cat gear 1100 AP 20% crit.
Bear gear 7k hps and 10300 ac.

NS is definately a great talent to have. It has saved my ass and several others many times since i respec'ed.

Just ran LBRS (5man) last night for the first time and I think I used NS about 8-9 times total through the run. Mostly it was used on the warlock/priest and a couple times on the MT. Damn squishes drop way way too fast....I kept finding myself hitting regrowth on them simply because it is faster, albeit much less efficient. I also respecced last night to pickup Sublety on the path to NS. I was drawing way too much aggro on multiple pulls trying to even out the damage spikes on the MT and warlock. Since we have no de-aggro spells like a priest I was flopping between bear and caster often =/

I certainly have a lot to learn about aggro management, and Sublety might be a crutch until I get better at it.

I kept finding myself hitting regrowth on them simply because it is faster, albeit much less efficient.

Did you mean rejuvenation? It's instant but damn the healing value blows chunks...does anyone else think rejuve is a waste? I usually only cast it on someone who's lost a minute amt of HP while they're going into battle - other than that, I'll stick with the regrowths & NS HTs.

Nah I was using regrowth but there was a priest there also, who was hitting me with renew, that prolly missed the HoT portion of regrowth. Regrowth is nice but pretty taxing on the manabar. Rejuv I only use to top people off or on someone that snatched aggro and then lost it. I use Benecast too so I am only overhealing by 1 rank, MT heals I am usually using hotkeys instead of Benecast.

I agree with Create in that 0/30/21 is the best all around build. However if maximising your dps is your priority 14/32/5 is the way to go.

When I was running alot of BG's trying to rank up I was 14/32/5. Whenever I had to pug it I would stay in my Feral gear and tear things up. When I had the opportunity to get into one of the good organised cp farming groups I always knew that I got in becasue I could heal, and even though I was heavy feral I healed good enough to keep getting invited back. You can be an effective healer with 14/32/5 if you have decent healing gear, just not as mana efficient as say a resto spec.

Once I stopped grinding for cp'c and started doing more instance running I went to 0/30/21. Really like this build alot. You can still put out some good dps but when you need to you are a very effective healer.

NS is definately a great talent to have. It has saved my ass and several others many times since i respec'ed.
I would say give then both a try and see what you like. Yes, most people will expect you to heal but dont let them dictate your play style. On the other hand never forget that you can heal. A good druid uses all their skills to be the most effective IMO.

On a side note, I just repeced back to 0/30/21 from 13/0/38. Our raiding crew has enough healers these days so I decided to respec once more. Just hated to see my feral gear rotting in the bank :P.

Mana fully raid buffed is 8400.
Cat gear 1100 AP 20% crit.
Bear gear 7k hps and 10300 ac.


LOL, I just posted a response to your decision to move from 0/30/21 to 13/0/38. So....don't spend too much time on either of the responses. I can defionately sense 14/32/5 until 60, then the 0/30/21 which you LEFT and just loved to much and had to go back to :texla:

{EDIT] - I would love to have a list of your gear. Looking at your mana, crit%, HP & Armor is making me drool.

Did you mean rejuvenation? It's instant but damn the healing value blows chunks...does anyone else think rejuve is a waste? I usually only cast it on someone who's lost a minute amt of HP while they're going into battle - other than that, I'll stick with the regrowths & NS HTs.

Rejuv gets alot more valuable as you get better gear. With my current gear and a 0/30/21 spec my rejuv does 286 per tic. The Resto Druid in our raid with almost the exact same gear I have for healing does 315 per tic with his rejuv. Im sure there alot others with even better gear that get more out of it.

It is great for healing someone that took one shot or got to close to an aoe.

LOL, I just posted a response to your decision to move from 0/30/21 to 13/0/38. So....don't spend too much time on either of the responses. I can defionately sense 14/32/5 until 60, then the 0/30/21 which you LEFT and just loved to much and had to go back to :texla:

{EDIT] - I would love to have a list of your gear. Looking at your mana, crit%, HP & Armor is making me drool.

Ill try and get a link to all my junk, but im a tard when it comes to doing things like that.

I have had some upgrades since my last post. Cat stats are the same but my mana pool has grown to 9303, and my bear hp's have gone to 7800 raid buffed.