View Full Forums : Arcanite Market price discrepancies

03-13-2006, 01:40 PM
On my server, on my faction (alliance) the following are true:

1. Arcane crystals sell for about 18g
2. Arcanite transmutes sell at about 4g
3. Arcanite bars sell at 26g

My question is where does the extra 4 gold come from?

The Horde side has a similar phenomenon, but with higher numbers due to limited supply.

One could sit in IF all day, buying the mats and transmutes and selling the bars and make a profit, but no one appears to.

Is this unique to perenolde, or does it exist on other servers as well?

03-13-2006, 02:18 PM
This is actually a major source of my income, though it is really slow. Primarily because of the 1 transmute every 2 days limit. Pricing on my server:

Arcane crystal: 18g - 20g
Thorium Bar: not much, dont remember exactly
Arcanite Transmute: 5g
Arcanite Bar 30g - 35g

Extra cost comes from a convenience factor - whoever did the xmute to sell arcanite obviously is building in a service fee to help them make money. Similar to how the mats for a firey enchant will cost about 22-26g, and enchanters sell them for 30-35g.

I have bought mats and transmuted 10 arcanite bars over the past month or so. Total Mats cost approx 200g. I am going to put them on the AH for 350g bid, 400g buyout, thinking that people who want to buy them in large quantity will pay slightly more for the convenience of buying them 10 at a time, rather than spamming IF "wtb arcantie xmute, wtb arcanite bars" Not sure if this will work.

Though selling them for 350g (mean AH price x 10) will net me around 150g in profit. Though this is over the course of a month, averaging out to 5g per day. Which is double what I make just doing xmutes. Guess its not that much money, but its getting me closer to my epic mount. /shrug

A lot of people do this I think - thats why Bliz put in the 48 hour cooldown on arcanite transmutes.

03-13-2006, 02:28 PM
heh I am so glad there is nothing I need or want that requires arcanite.....price for that stuff is insane =/

03-13-2006, 04:56 PM
my point is the gap between the combined cost of the crystal, the thorium bar, and the transmute and the price of the bar. Using your numbers you could run into the AH, buy a crystal for 20, spam chat to buy a transmute for 5, then sell the bar at a 5g profit, you never even had to use your cooldown and you don't have to wait you can do it ten times a day.

It seems the price gap is universal, but I still don't understand why.

03-13-2006, 05:17 PM
Ahh. I see. You know, thats not a bad idea. I may start doing that :P. I have 5 thorium bars in the bank (traded some guy an xmute for 5 thorium bars once). That'd be a quick way to get them into arcanite bars and up on the AH.

Perhaps the price gap comes from the price of the thorium bar? I'm thinking its the effort involved - people are naturally lazy, and would rather buy the finished product than farm mats / buy mats and have the item put together for them.

03-14-2006, 08:53 AM
On my server the thorium bar is only 30s, so I don't even factor it into the calculation. I definitely think the laziness factor is what they are paying for but it seems odd to be able to spam:

/2 WTB [Arcane crystal] 18g; WTB Arcanite Transmute 4g; WTS [Arcanite Bar] 26g

and make a constant stream of income, without using any talents, cooldowns, or professions (unless you count trade channel spamming as a secondary profession).

03-14-2006, 04:10 PM
You forget that buying the arcane crystal, finding someone to transmute it, and putting it up for possible sale takes time and effort. Theres some risk (although minimal) to do all of that over and over again. People pay for convenience. In turn, people charge for convenience.

03-14-2006, 04:54 PM
I admit it takes time, effort is debatable.

It seems once you had a little start-up money you could become a millionaire without ever leaving IF, and pressing maybe 3 buttons.

03-15-2006, 01:42 PM
I did this kind of backwards last night - I had 4 arcanite bars in the bank, and some guy was spamming "WTB 4 Arcanite Transmutes - Have Mats". I told him that I'd trade him 4 Arcanite bars for the mats and 50g.

I figure I made 30g off this. I still have the same number of arcanite bars (only not transmuted yet) and 50g. Just selling the 4 transmutes I would have made 20g. So some guy paid 30g extra to not have to stand around and spam LF Arc Trans. Works for me.

Now that I have the mats for (4) more bars, I'm trying to decide whether I'm gonna buy transmutes from others so that I can get 4 transmuted quickly to resell, or whether I'm gonna do them myself to save the 20g.

03-15-2006, 02:03 PM
Good deal, he must have been in an awful hurry to pay 12.5g per transmute.

03-15-2006, 07:16 PM
It's just as other people have said, the convience factor. Look how many people strive to play this game 'solo'. They don't want to send tells, they don't want to make friends, they are willing to pay the 'AH' price.

There are a few items you can make for profit without leaving the AH since mats are cheaper then finished product sells for. Another example would be Mithril Casings... you can buy a stack of Mith for 2~3g and sell Casings for 1g a pop' 6gold plus 2 extra bars per stack.

Real money is made buying and reselling items. It can be a risky game and I'm a minor player since I'd rather kill 8) I know people that do alot of it, buy somthing for 300 from someone who's in a rush to get gold and re-sell it for 400. If you have ever seen 'Auctioneer Beardo' in Gadgetzen, he's named after a EQ player on the Nameless server who was the king of re-sellers... he made more money and sold more 'uber lewt' then anyone cares to know about... without ever leaving the West Commons tunnel (a noob area people used to buy/sell in EQ)

03-15-2006, 09:30 PM
Ah see, now I am intrigued by the whole mogul, art-of-the -deal aspect, perhaps I will create a Donald Trump alt.

Someone hinted to me that hording gold or attempting to manipulate market prices were against the ToS, can anyone confirm?

03-16-2006, 09:20 AM
Ah see, now I am intrigued by the whole mogul, art-of-the -deal aspect, perhaps I will create a Donald Trump alt.

Someone hinted to me that hording gold or attempting to manipulate market prices were against the ToS, can anyone confirm?

I think if you were doing as we were suggesting here (buying arcane crystals, transmuting them, and reselling them) is fine by the ToS.. I think manipulation of market prices is when you do more drastic things. For example, I've heard of a case where a small group of players buyout the AH and put everything back up according to their prices.

03-16-2006, 11:27 AM
but that is what it would become once a mogul has enough cash, he would corner markets and set his own terms, is that really a violation?

03-16-2006, 11:40 AM
Won't ever happen on a server as long as there are enough people who continue to make alts, grind, farm, etc. Eventually, prices will be so steep that people will decide to farm mats themselves, grind away and earn cash to buy at those high prices, or just refuse to buy at ridiculous prices. No matter what, that monopoly/oligopoly will be very short lived. I think one thing that blizzard did very well was implement a very competitive economic system. If you saw that Living Essence was selling for 100g, would you not go out and farm some and sell them for say, 90g? Happens all the time on my server. Someone sells Mithril bars for 4g, I price mine at 3g 90s. Even if I bought all of the mithril on AH, within hours there will be more on AH.

03-16-2006, 02:44 PM
Right of course, but suppose the change wasn't as drastic, like take the arcane crystal example way above, suppose I acquired 200 arcane crystals over time at an average price of 18 g, then I decide to start selling them.

I go into the AH, clean out the current supply, and list a couple dozen auctions at 30g a piece. Now some people will refuse to pay and go get their own, but others just won't have the wherewithal, also lets say that you now have some arcane crystals that you are wanting to sell, and see that all the ones in the AH are near 30g, will you list yours at 18, or just undercut a little at say 28g. I just set a new market price as sellers will want to get as much for their crystal as possible, and people will likely pay as the need for arcanite is high and the price wasn't a ridiculous jump (like 100g), people will chock it up to market fluctuation.

I can even simulate this myself by posting the 30g ones on an alt and the 28g on my main, people will eat up the ones I only marked up 10g.

03-16-2006, 03:01 PM
It's not against TOS, it might not make you many friends tho' As you mentioned a donald trump alt, that's exactly what I'd suggest. I have my lowbie mage as my mule, his sole purpose in life is to sell my goods.

I'd be carful in trying to control markets, I prefer looking at blues/purples and buying somthing I see is well underpriced.

Don't try and control somthing that's plentiful or easy to create if a demand is seen for them, the market will catch up. I only sell Sniper Scopes for 7 gold, usual market price is 4~5g. If I try to grab all those that are sell'n below what I sell for, I'll go broke cause people will keep pumping them out since they're clearly happy with the their minimal profit margins... and I'll have a huge over-stock of scopes. So I keep 10 scopes on hand, and sell'm when no one else has any on the AH and I have'm if a guildy needs one. I only buy them off the AH if the buyout is around 3g, since that's well below mat costs.

You might be able to control somthing like Twighlight Texts the cultist drop. On my server they usually sell for 1g, but more then 1 person has tried to control the market and sold'm for 2g... They did it for long enough that they prob did have some success at it.

03-16-2006, 05:02 PM
I hear you, I'm not saying it would be easy. It would take forever to make enough gold to really get rolling.

I suspect there are is a guy an my server does it with set pieces. He spams /2 selling ALL the BoE set pieces, I can't imagine he farms them as what groups would let that many pieces go to the wrong class, so he must be speculating.