To start off this isn't a world of warcraft sucks post. If you are a fanboy and don't like people critiquing warcraft, you might want to stop reading now.

World of Warcraft was my very first MMORPG to play like it is for many people. I love the game. I have so many characters on both sides and play most all of the professions. It's a great game.

Since I fell in love with warcraft I have gone out and tried other MMORPG's as well just to see how fun they were. I won't list the other games as this thread could very quickly become a 'which game is better thread', but I have learned a few things from other games that I wish warcraft included as well.

My number one complaint against warcraft is that it isn't 'user friendly'. I am not talking about the interface being difficult to use or the button combinations being confusing. I am talking about how it is nearly impossible to sign on and play for about an hour and get into anything that is worthwhile.

There are other games that I play that I can sign on and start pvping in about 3 minutes tops. I can play for 5 minutes, 30 minutes, or all day and then shut it off if I wish. With warcraft I sign on (which can take awhile depending on server load) then join a battleground queue and have to wait quite a while to eventually play a pvp match that could take 10 minutes or 3 hours.

In reality someone who wants a 'quick fix' of their favorite style of play, whether it be pvp or pve instances, can't have it with warcraft. It's either long open time slots of at least 2 or 3 hours or none at all.

What I would like to see is something that allows people who don't want to or can't play for 2+ hours per sitting to do something meaningful in the game (pvp or pve).

Strange, WoW is considered easymode for a lot of MMO players. Are you looking for a game more geared toward solo play after reaching max level?

Read the post again - I am not talking about the game being hard because it isn't.

I am talking about the fact that you can't do anything meaningful via pvp or pve if you only have 30 minutes to an hour to play unlike other MMORPG's I have played.

Actually - which have you played? In my experience, WoW is one of the more casual friendly MMOGs... though it wanes at level 60.

One game in particular that I play is guild wars.

For example on this game I can be pvping within 5 minutes of turning on my computer. If I only have 30 minutes to play, I can play for 30 minutes against other players with a team of my own (not talking about solo content here).

I am just saying I wish warcraft had similiar features for those of us that want to have fun for an hour or so.

Oh, I hardly even think of Guild Wars as an MMO really. I haven't tried PvP in it (yeah, Guild Wars and no PvP? WTH?), but in PvE, it takes 2-3 hours to do most of the missions.

Oh, I hardly even think of Guild Wars as an MMO really. I haven't tried PvP in it (yeah, Guild Wars and no PvP? WTH?), but in PvE, it takes 2-3 hours to do most of the missions.

If Guild Wars isn't really an MMO then world of warcraft should be able to beat their pvp system hands down if Guild Wars is only half the game (just an RPG not an MMORPG). I guess that's part of my complaint. In this example the pvp is so much more user friendly or time friendly than in world of warcraft.

The pve doesn't take more than an hour till you get to the last missions. Most take 45 minutes to an hour.

BTW, Guild Wars is (I believe) classified as a CORPG (Co-operative Online Role Playing Game). Guild Wars PvP is fast and fun which I would admit. You don't need queues because it's not faction vs. faction, its anyone vs. anyone (like PUGs / pick up groups)

I heard a lot of peopel whine about this saying that casual gamers cannot benefit from endgame pvp or pve. It's nearly impossible to something worthwhile in say 30 minutes - 1 horu of time. BG takes hours to get in, raids are even harder to organize and the fact that the casual gamers cannot get into raids often states that they won't get many epics >.<

Anyone care to elaborate?

note: these are all the things that i've heaard, none are my opinion.

I am a "casual gamer" I play two hours or so a day in 1 hour blocks. One usually on my lunch break and one at night when I get home. I am not into the BGs as much right one reason being unreliability of a quick game as mentioned which I agree is a downside. However, if I want pvp I only have to go to STV or the shimmering flats for open world PVP lots of times I Can even hang outside SM for a long time PVPing which is nice since it has a close cemetery. As for PVE yeah it takes a while to find a group if you don't have a long friends list or are in a guild to run instances and forget raids for the casual gamer however I believe there is still plenty of content out there pre-60 I am only 41 so I have now idea for anything above that.

Trixtaa I think you are hitting it right on the head.

Warcraft as you level it's easy to play for 30 minutes and get some xp which obviously is beneficial. In the endgame everything is so long that you will lose 30 minute to an hour at a time players.

Guild Wars obviously has a quick no queue pvp system.

Even City of Heroes has it's benefits. Even after the full level you can switch outfits and earn points for your guild to buy new stuff. Even then if you had 30 minutes to play you can still do something meaningful.

With warcraft since it is an awesome game - it would be nice to see some quick and efficient NON-solo things that could be done for those who don't have chunks of time to play with. Even something like random pvp battles that are quick and easy to get into would be nice.

Here is my problem - I love playing world of warcraft. The problem is that the options for the casual casual (which at times I am) is that there really isn't anything available for a 'quick fix'.

As of right now the option is to reroll new characters.

note - about the guild wars being an mmorpg or a corpg - it's a matter of semantics and this thread isn't about that debate. 100,000s of people play at any one time so you can make up your own mind whether thats massive or not. The focus of this is on warcraft as how it could improve (because I'm sure it can).

I agree it can improve as with everything. I am also glad to see that you are not focusing on the negative (not really the term I am looking for but cant come up with the one I am) aspect of your thread. I believe we will see more improvements from Blizz possibly even addressing this issue. I think we will have to wait for those improvements however until they have their stability issue under control.

Might I suggest a PVP server? The queue time is still a problem, but Blizzard is working on it. It sounds like PVP is key to your feeling you got something out of it. Personally, the queue issue has been an issue long enough that I compensate for it by getting into the queue ahead of time. Might not be so convenient for you if you get home late though.

I don't play on a PVP server because the ganking doesn't sounds like fun. I much prefer choosing when I want to quest (gank free) and when I want to PVP (BG), but it might be for you.

I have played EQ, SWG, CoH, and now WoW since opening day. Love the game, but it is most definately a time sink. I don't suggest it to people who have very limited play schedules. I haven't tried Guild Wars yet, but CoH seemed to be pretty easy to get in and on a team fast.

I've always played on pvp servers. I've never even tried pve.

I have started a couple a major fights on the server I'm normally on. I will taunt and spit and camp on a guy until the friends arrive where I will have a group ready for them as well. I'll admit I have the most fun doing real world pvp. Unfortunately, many of the players I feel don't like it as much. If they are grinding for pvp faction they want to do battlegrounds and don't want to waste their time on world pvp.

I would rather have a Blizzard iniated solution for shorter playing times than logging on hoping to create my own battles/content.

I think they plan to implement holdable towers in the world environment in an upcoming patch to encourage world pvp, so you wouldn't have to queue up just gather some friends and go raid [wherever].

I have never played any other MMORPG's, but I can relate to what you are talking about Atrus. Before I hit 60, I could log on, kill mobs for an hour or so (either for a quest or just pure grinding), rack up some xp, then quit.

Now, I'm primarily focusing on running instances to get better gear, so that I dont get wtfpwned as quick in bg's by full epic'd out hordies. (this one shammy with hand of rag loves to kill me in like 2 hits). And these instances are usually a minimum of 2 hours, with about 30 min of lfg. Especially for UBRS LBRS pugs when they were 15 man groups.

When I want to just play for a little bit, I go to epl to grind for Larval Acids or something to give to guildies, or herbs to make pots for raids (5 hours in MC the other day /sigh). Which isn't that productive for myself, but something mindless I can do for half hour or so. If I am in the mood to BG, b/c of the super long BG queue times, often I'll queue for AB in arathi, then head up to epl and grind for 30 min before I get summoned to AB.

Would be nice for Blizz to implement more arenas, or some kind of meeting place where people can go at any time to find others to battle. Oh wait, thats called STV.

**Edit - just saw Mort's post. That would be awesome. Real world PvP is much more fun than bg's imho. Some of the most fun I've had have been on Tarren Mill raids that went back and forth between TM and SS. Throwing in 'controlable' towers would be great.

I can understand the frustration of the BG queues. I usually log at a major city so when I first come login, I'll queue for AB and AV and then run off to do whatever it is I need. Be it fishing for def pots, grinding leather, grinding some rep, whatever.

My 30 min runs usually involve the AH, scanning it ( with auctioneer and for things I may want ) and checking current supply / demand and price points.

I do love PvP but only sometimes, and that's why I'm glad I went with a PvE server for my first WoW experience. I think had I been ganked left and right I would have been frustrated beyond belief and stopped playing.

I know where Claritondeus is coming from. There are a few hordies I seem to have "made nice with" that like to pick me out of a crowd and see how quickly they can drop me. They do get frustrated when they catch me in bear and my heavy gear instead of my healing gear.

Besides that, once you hit 60 you reach that point of diminishing returns for the amount of time you put in. You could run BRD/ Scholo / Strat / BRS 5 or 6 or 10 times and not get the drop(s) you've wanted / been waiting for and these instances are no "quick run".

Besides that, once you hit 60 you reach that point of diminishing returns for the amount of time you put in. You could run BRD/ Scholo / Strat / BRS 5 or 6 or 10 times and not get the drop(s) you've wanted / been waiting for and these instances are no "quick run".

Lol so true. That's actually one thing that I do dislike about the post-60 game, but just cause im greedy I guess. Sucks logging on, deciding "ok, I'm gonna run LBRS for the 87th time, I'm sure my WH shoulders will drop this run", or "come on wildheart helm, I know the baron wants to give you to me", then spend 2+hours and get nothing, other than maybe a gray weapon that can vendor for a gold, and/or some random BoE greens to put in AH.

At lower levels it seemed that I always got something accomplished - new gear, quest done and xp gained, surviving more than 4 minutes in STV... More often than not now I log off feeling that I didn't get anything 'accomplished'. Though seeing cenarion drop (and having enough dkp to win the bid), or getting some kick ass feral gear on a lucky drop, or finding some guy spamming "WTS Warden Staff 150g" then turning around and selling it for 300g really makes everything worth while.

That is the one "downer" I have found about the "I've hit 60" game. I can't say that I really jumped on for 20 min and then logged out feeling I got much accomplished prior to 60, but after an instance run I can say I felt like it was worthwhile and I wasn't just "waiting for my drop".

Now it's waiting for _____ to drop ______ and hope it doesn't take another 30 runs.

Far too often I feel like I did a LOT in game, but really didn't advance, maybe just kind of moved sideways. *sigh*

I try to play the buy low sell high on the AH and the WTS channels. Sometimes it works out, sometimes I go quite a while without finding "that deal".

Thanks for the replies. I was just wondering if I was the only one or not that felt that way about the game.

I really don't think I will be able to add alot to the discussion as I don't really have any ideas on how to fix the issue. It was more of an issue awareness type of post.

I do have hope - the expansion. I'm sure there will be an interesting new approach to either pvp or pve or even both.

Even all the people who have "quit" warcraft for various reasons will be coming back when the expansion comes out. :texla:

Strange, WoW is considered easymode for a lot of MMO players. Are you looking for a game more geared toward solo play after reaching max level?
/nod, definitely easy mod in many things. It's by far one of THE most user friendly MMO ever created to date.

/nod, definitely easy mod in many things. It's by far one of THE most user friendly MMO ever created to date.

Read the original post in full please.