I wanna stay feral end game, and dps is a dime a dozen now a days, so i figure if i wanna stay feral i need to tank.

Whats the best stat to have for tanking?

right now i focus on highest armor possible, but there are some obvious leather "tanking" pieces with less armor but with things like +defense and +resiliance. so whats better of the three for tanking?

Armor
+Defense
+Resilliance (i still dont fully understand how this one works)

And once you have them in order of importance, when do you decide, if at all, that you give up your most important stat if a secondary stat is big enough to warrent?

one example that comes to mind are the "Heavy Clefthoof" armor set that can be made from leatherworking. It has the best +defense of any pieces in the game for leather, but the armor rating isnt the best around, and no resiliance.

I would say in this order

1. Armor
2. Stamina and +Health
3. Agility
4. Dodge
5. Defense and Resilience

There are some goals I want to hit as a tank.

20k armor
16k+ HP - Don't know have not heard a good number here
40% Dodge
Enough +Defense and +Resilience to be uncritable

There are some tradeoffs you will have to make however. Once you get to a certain point more Stamina will make a bigger difference than more armor.

Check out the link in the equipment forums. There is a nice spreadsheet and links that might help ya.

I'm kind of torn on the armor & HP priority. In a number of cases I have switched out gear with less AC for more stam and it has helped tremendously.

I have to work on getting a really good tanking set again, 18k armor just doesn't cut it.

I agree, I was a main tank in my guild but I had to temp. leave due to a neck injury, but I will be back with my guild people soon I hope!
Anyway Armor, stam, must have lots of hit points!

One more thing, "Good Tanking takes time to learn". Don't think you can just have good gear and tank, You have to learn "How" to tank in a raid!
I'm lucky because all the tanks in my guild are the best on the server and they have been teaching me for a long time and I was made main tank because I listened and learned how to tank!

Good luck and learn from other true tanks!
Windsaber

18k is a little low I think for level 70 tanking. I have 18.5k at level 66.

Lets check the forumla

%DR = Armor / (Armor + AF)
AF = ((85*Alvl)+400)
for Level<60, Alvl = Level
for Level>=60, Alvl = Level + 4.5*(Level-59)

Alvl 70 = 70+49.5 = 119.5

At 70, 18k armor provides

AF = ((85*AL)+400) = 85*119.5+400 = 10557.5

18000/(18000+10557.5) = 18000/28557.5 = 63%

63% reduction is not bad but 70% would be better.

Maybe try for 25k armor?

At 70, 25k armor provides

AF = ((85*AL)+400) = 85*119.5+400 = 10557.5

25000/(25000+10557.5) = 25000/35557.5 = 70%


How much armor is possible nowadays for Druids anyways?

How much armor is possible nowadays for Druids anyways?
I out together a quick profile, and without enchants I was able to come up with 5399 in caster X 5.6 (Thick Hide 3) = 30234

Add in the AC and AGI enchants and you can probably break 30,500.

Link (http://www.ctprofiles.net/5077525)to the equipment I used (Disclaimer: I went highest AC, not best item!)

I'm working on building up a good tanking gear set, and I'm not totally sure on how much more armor I want. I had 20k, close to 21k, then I made a few changes, ended up with 6% more dodge than I had before, some more crit, and 30 more def but only 19.5k armor. I'm still kinda testing out gear to see if I like that more or not, but so far I do actually. I'm at 31% dodge unbuffed and 280 def, no resil. That avoidance just seems to be pretty nice so far, I like that, I like not getting critted hardly either. I think the more avoidance will help me out in karazhan etc., at least that's my hope. Whenever we're ready to hit kara, I'll most likely be OT if not MT. I still want more than 20k armor though, still working on getting a few key high armor pieces (that dude in old hillsbrad that drops that nice armor ring hates me... just like the dude in ramparts hated me... *sigh*)... with them I should have 21k again hopefully. I'm at almost 12k unbuffed HP atm, I do want a bit more of that, still trying to figure out what gear to grab for more sta.

On a side note, ct profiles doesn't seem to be working the greatest for me, I can't even switch forms with its little buttons anymore to see the armor changes etc. :(

On a side note, ct profiles doesn't seem to be working the greatest for me, I can't even switch forms with its little buttons anymore to see the armor changes etc. :(
Same

You guys are crazy. 18k armor and your saying it's not cutting it when I have just recently broken the 10k mark and the warriors I talk to are jealous. If a druid with 18k armor can't tank well...what in the world are warriors going to do?

I'm confuZED ...wow

I'm trying to go for a somewhat balanced set.

Right now I'm at about 21k armor and change, 390 defense(not sure what defense rating is, but the goal is to be crit immune, after that I don't care), about 12k hit points unbuffed. Dodge is only at about 22-23% right now, but will go up soon, I'm still using that god forsaken Warden Staff, need a few more Steamvault Runs and will get Earthwarden.

Would like to get http://www.ampwow.com/wow/viewNewItems/27891-Adamantine+Figurine.php
also to replace SHotM. The Dawnstone Crab is much better imho, but it's only available to Jewelcrafters so meh.

Some of the things I'd like to get are things like this: http://www.thottbot.com/?i=59877 (If anyone on Horde/Garona can make this let me know :P)

And: http://www.thottbot.com/?i=59919 Just haven't gotten to those yet.

I'm still pretty optimistic about end game tanking but will have to wait and see...to me it's all about dodge and how high I can get it, 'cause the armor's there, the stamina's there, the defense rating is there if you look in the right places..

As to that Heavy Clefthoof set btw, I like it, but it's not much more than a temporary thing I think. I've been tempted to get the boots, but the Jerkin of the Untamed Spirit and the Leggings of Unending Assault beat the other two pieces imho.

You guys are crazy. 18k armor and your saying it's not cutting it when I have just recently broken the 10k mark and the warriors I talk to are jealous. If a druid with 18k armor can't tank well...what in the world are warriors going to do?

I'm confuZED ...wow

The damage reduction cap at lvl 70 against a boss is over 30k, so 18k isn't all that high. Granted I'm not sure what kind of armor a level 70 well geared warrior has typically, but the warriors I've seen do just fine...they take more dmg per hit than druids, but they also have block and parry to work with and in general, better itemization.

New end game bosses will be hitting for probably at least 2k a pop and crush/crit for 8k+, so warriors will be focusing more on avoidance while maintaining 12k+ health and 12+ armor themselves. We naturally have less avoidance to work with, so we might be reciecing more of those 8K crushings and such, so simple high armor's just not going to save us quite so easily as it may seem in some 5-mans.

I have the stylin' purple hat, it's awesome :D Found the recipe randomly in shadow labyrinth.

I out together a quick profile, and without enchants I was able to come up with 5399 in caster X 5.6 (Thick Hide 3) = 30234

Add in the AC and AGI enchants and you can probably break 30,500.

Link (http://www.ctprofiles.net/5077525)to the equipment I used (Disclaimer: I went highest AC, not best item!)

Well i couldnt get ctprofiles to load, but even if your caster armor is correct, your math is wrong. it would be 5399 X 4.6 (Thick Hide 3) = 24835 max armor. So around 25k armor with AGI enchants.

According to wowwiki:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Damage_reduction

you would need over 30k armor to get the max 75% damage reduction. Since we've already figured out the absolute max is around 25k armor, thats around 70% damage reduction.

================================

i think i sold the "Leggings of Unending Assault", i looked them up, they dont look that great to me. am i missing somthing?

Clefthoof Hide Leggings (http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=31544&locale=enUS;source=live) has just as much AP from STR, the same amount of AGI, a little more armor, +feral combat skill, and a little less STA. IMO they are better dps and tanking pants than the unending assault leggings. but i use the Ash Tempered Legguards (http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=30941&locale=enUS;source=live) for tanking. Their green, but they have awsome Armor, a little more stamina, almost the same STR with less AGI.

25k would not be all that hard to get to, I can get nearly to 23k with so so gear and no Earthwarden.

As to the Clefthoof Leggings, I'll trade feral combat skill for 20+ stamina anyday.

Guys,

Go to the Warrior forums and read about tanking gear before making priority decisions around gear. When you think of arm as damage mitigation as a percentage you are signiifgantly better advantaged putting your money and time into +def and +dodge abilities.

I.e. you are main tank with adequate gear (lets say 15k arm and 25% dodge to make the numbers easy)

Monsters does 1000 dps, at 15K arm with 0%dodge your mitigation is in the high 60's so you recieve approximatly 300 and change in damage every second or over 1000 seconds you took 300,000damage. striving to have an additional 10k arm, regardles of buffs moves you to 75% (max) mitigation or 250 per second, 250,000 damage.

Looking at dodge with 0% armor (which def rating helps) you have a 25% dodge chance which means over 1000 hits and a 1000dam a piece only 750 land or 750,000 damage(remeber no armor). If you strive to to get an extra 5% dodge that would yield a 70% land and 700,000 or 50k difference.

it is hella easier to get 5% dodge than 10k armor.

Another way to think of it is if a mob does 100dps adding 10k armor saves you 5 dps and 5% dodge saves you 5 dps. OR even another way is 1 hit persec, 100 damage per hit, 1 dodge makes up for 20 hits of increased mitigation.

This would be why blizz has put +dodge and +def on all the leather tanking gear. Look at the BC Blue Strength of the Clefthoof set craftable from CE, its all +def and + dodge.

Warriors tanking in endgame should be starting at 500 def (now its a little different because they get block and parry too) and focusing almost on entirely on +def +block +dodge and +parry stats.

note: agility is a signifigant contibutor to dodge %.
Disclaimer: Everything here in is subject to change at the whim and fancy of blizz at any time.

And to give you a quick clarification on resilience it is the 'anti-crit', in other words more resilience reduces the chances that you will recieve a critical strike from your enemy. This will be a bigger and bigger stat as EG PVE have obnoxious crits. In Naxx Patchwerk alone critted for 8k.

Well i couldnt get ctprofiles to load, but even if your caster armor is correct, your math is wrong. it would be 5399 X 4.6 (Thick Hide 3) = 24835 max armor. So around 25k armor with AGI enchants.
No, that is incorrect. Dire Bear gives 450% to armor contribution, and Thick Hide 3 gives an additional 10%, for a total of 460%. But that's on top of your normal armor value, so you need to either add that to your original value, or even easier, multiply your armor value by 560% (5.6).

A very well thought-out post on +Def, Resilience, and Becoming Uncrittable (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=73460117&sid=1):

First off, you cannot become completely uncrittable. However, according to WoWwiki, you can reduce your chance to be crit to less than 0.1%, which is very valuable for preventing burst damage which your healers cannot keep up with.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Defense

Everything I have seen suggests that tanking mechanics are largely unchanged from pre-BC, even though druid class mechanics have been changed substantially. A boss 3 levels higher than you will still have a 5.6% base chance to crit you, and warriors can still use Shield Block to push crushing blows and crits off the hit table. Lacking the Shield Block tool for preventing burst damage, it's important that druids tap whatever we can to minimize our chance to receive burst while tanking if we are to remain competitive tanks.

How to Become Uncrittable

There are three ways to reduce your chance to be crit:

The first is to pick up the Survival of the Fittest talent, which every serious bear tank should have. SotF reduces your chance to be crit by melee by 1/2/3%. The value of this talent is immense due to the high item point cost of crit reduction. This talent is worth 120 Resilience or 180 defense in terms of anti-crit. Not having to get all that resilience or defense means that more item points can be spent on things like armor, agility or dodge, which yield more overall mitigation at a lower item point cost.

The second is to get resilience. 40 Resilience rating will reduce your chance to be crit by a melee, ranged, or spell attack by 1%, and reduce the damage of a crit by 2%. You might think that this stat has extra value for applying to spell attacks, but you'd be wrong. All my testing suggests that mobs do not crit spells. Although resilience will reduce your chance to be crit for fewer item points than defense rating, defense rating will actually yield better overall mitigation. Resilience is meant to be a PvP stat, not a tanking stat. Nevertheless, there are many good tanking items which have resilience, such as the Mok'Nathal Clan Ring, and Resilience is a very viable way to get more crit reduction if you can't get enough defense.

The third is to get defense. 60 defense rating will provide 25 defense skill, increasing a druid's dodge by 1% and reducing your chance to be hit or crit by melee by 1%. Although resilience will get you more crit reduction for fewer item points, and despite the fact that paladins and warriors get more mitigation out of the stat, defense is the best way to increase your mitigation while reducing your chance to be crit because of the extra dodge and miss chance. Altogether, defense gives roughly twice the total mitigation as resilience per rating point.


Balancing Your Tanking Stats

The first step to becoming uncrittable is to take Survival of the Fittest. This talent reduces a level 73 mob's chance to crit you to 2.6%. The rest has to be covered by defense and resilience. To cover that last 2.6% with defense takes 156 defense rating, or 104 resilience rating, or a combination of the two. The defense also gets you 2.6% increased chance to be missed or to dodge. The resilience gets you nothing more outside of PvP.

It's valuable to know that in terms of item points, 10 armor = 1.5 stam = 1 agility = 1 of any rating. That's right, all ratings cost the same amount in the item budget.

The hierarchy in terms of overall survivability for stats relative to their item point cost goes:

Stamina > Armor > Agility > Dodge Rating > Defense Rating > Resilience Rating

This means that while defense and Resilience are good for reducing burst damage, they're terrible long-term mitigation. If you spent item points on 120 resilience to get the 3% crit reduction you should be getting from Survival of the Fittest, you could get 120 agility for the same cost and get 8% dodge, plus 240 armor!

The point is that anti-crit is something you should get, then move on as soon as possible. Don't stack +def up to the moon, because after you have 156, you're wasting your time.

It's also valuable to be mindful of this hierarchy when selecting gems or enchantments. Don't spend all your time at Halaa saving up for that +10 resilience gem when you could use a +8 defense gem for more mitigation at the cost of a little crit reduction, or a +8 agility gem for best overall mitigation. Similarly, the +12 defense rating bracer enchant is worth more in terms of item points than the +12 stamina enchant.

Thanks that is great info.

Best tanking staff id Braxxi's staff of slumber. Its the new warden staff with benefits. With out buffs I make 17k just bearly (pun). Have however opted to go for a more resistent gear and try to get as much magical resists as possible. I recently tanked ony and the healers assigned to me said that it was the easiest heals they had in ages (75 fire res unbuffed in normal tanking gear and 233 in fire res gear unbuffed), I only have 11K health so what id suggest is to balance everything.25K armour is great but not that great when you get feared a lot or when you get seeded or stun locked.

Not really. The best tanking staff is Earthwarden :)

Earthwarden
Binds when picked up
Unique
Two-Hand Mace
262 - 394 Damage Speed 3.20
(102.5 damage per second)
500 Armor
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 70
Requires Cenarion Expedition - Exalted
Equip: Increases defense rating by +24
Equip: Increases feral combat skill rating by 24.
Equip: Increases attack power by 525 in Cat, Bear, Dire Bear, and Moonkin forms only.

You really need to get 25k armor at 70 in the level 70 instances. And you want to be uncritable.

Cause earthwarden is a staff?

Pre 70, Braxxis Staff of Slumber rocks. Still actually has more armor than the Earthwarden, though not as much defense ap and feral combat skill. So yeah, Earthwarden > all.

I have tanked all the lvl 70 instances now with 20-21k armor and havent had a problem, most of the time with a paladin as the main healer.

whats the braxxis stats etc ? cant access most sites through firewall atm to search for it....

Braxxis' Staff of Slumber
Binds when equipped
Two-Hand Staff
130 - 222 Damage Speed 3.00
(58.9 damage per second)
550 Armor
Durability 100 / 100
Requires Level 64
Equip: Increases attack power by 234 in Cat, Bear, Dire Bear, and Moonkin forms only.

Cause earthwarden is a staff?

Whatever. :) The point was Earthwarden is the Warden Staff replacement and Braxxis' Staff of Slumber is kind of a stopgap until we can get Exalted with CE.

I have tanked all the lvl 70 instances now with 20-21k armor and havent had a problem, most of the time with a paladin as the main healer.

By all of the level 70 instances do you mean:

1. Level 70 5-mans?

2. Epic mode for all of the 5-mans?

3. Karazhan?

4. Mount Hyjal? :)

Just trying to clarify.

Whatever. :) The point was Earthwarden is the Warden Staff replacement and Braxxis' Staff of Slumber is kind of a stopgap until we can get Exalted with CE.


heh. just taking the opportunity to be a smart@ss. You are absolutley right, Earthwarden definitley is the new Warden Staff. Hence the similarity in names, I suppose.

For now, I'm enjoying my Braxxis, though I've found, along with others, that with an incredibly high ac in instances (and less stam, which braxxis is sorely lacking) I actually generate less rage, which makes it harder for me to keep aggro. I'm using my Ursol's claw still to tank (need to get the beasts staff from ring of blood), except for bosses.

I find my self using my normal dps weapon even on bosses many times. They're usually of the magic damage ilk. Heavy melee types still get the Braxxis.

By lvl 70 instances I was refering to all the 5 mans, steamvaults, Botanica, Atlcatraz, Shattered Halls, etc.

I have bout 23k armor atm now, and tank Kharazan bosses and trash all the time without a problem.

I havent yet to try and heroic instances.

Just to post what's possible to some druids - I have a druid tanking friend, he hit 70 a week or two after BC came out. As of a week and a half ago (Last I heard from him) he had 26.4k hp unbuffed in bear form, and 25.9k armor.

he had 26.4k hp unbuffed in bear form, and 25.9k armor.

Now that's a tank!

I'd hate to see him in a battleground.

Though, what was his dodge and attack power at?

Hmm, I would like to see his equipment with those unbuffed stats...i havent heard/seen any druid near that many hps and that armor at the same time unbuffed none the less

typo I'm sure

26.4k = 16.4k

No, that is incorrect. Dire Bear gives 450% to armor contribution, and Thick Hide 3 gives an additional 10%, for a total of 460%. But that's on top of your normal armor value, so you need to either add that to your original value, or even easier, multiply your armor value by 560% (5.6).

uh no your wrong. go in game right now. write down your armor. go to bear form, and write down your armor. divide the two.

ive tried it with multiple different sets of gear with wide ranges of armor value's. it always comes up to 4.6.

================================================== ===================================

as for the discussion. I'm currently sitting just over 21k armor and around 11.5k health unbuffed. I still dont have the earthwarden, and i still need to get the 200armor ring from the violet eye rep. those 2 put together will put me up to almost 25k armor. The thoretical max that the guy quoted above figured out, but with incorrect math.

My guild is just about to start doing heroic dungeons, and we've been reading about some fairly high crits in them on people. I'm starting to think that mabey resilience on the higher end tanking gear may be prefered against the harder end game mobs. Armor only helps physical damage, Defense only effects chance to hit and dodge. Resiliance cuts down crit rate and crit damage on all types of damage. So it seems like when mobs are hitting for higher and higher crits, resiliance would do better.

What are your thoughts on that? Resiliance vs Def vs Armor?

I'm not really worried about health at this point honestly. Stamina seems to be on all gear reguardless of the other 3 stats listed above, so i dont really consider it a "vs" contender, because its always there.

nvm, i just read faloraans post quoted from wowwiki and that other guys post.

that post, imo, should be a sticky someplace for all aspiring bear tanks.

Armor only helps physical damage, Defense only effects chance to hit and dodge. Resiliance cuts down crit rate and crit damage on all types of damage.

Defense helps crit rate, and is overall better than Resiliance because you get the added dodge and to miss as well.

Copyed from Wowwikii..

60 defense rating will provide 25 defense skill, increasing a druid's dodge by 1% and reducing your chance to be hit or crit by melee by 1%. Although resilience will get you more crit reduction for fewer item points, and despite the fact that paladins and warriors get more mitigation out of the stat, defense is the best way to increase your mitigation while reducing your chance to be crit because of the extra dodge and miss chance. Altogether, defense gives roughly twice the total mitigation as resilience per rating point

Question on tanking gear sorry if I'm going off topic a bit. Going into TBC I had full warlord gear and used it along with the warden staff to tank many instances.

I'm finding hard to let go of a lot of the HWL gear now since it has such high armor. I am currently hitting 68 and with the exception of a few peices (Jerking of Untamed Spirt, and a set of blue boots) I still have and use a lot of the warlord stuff. Granted I swap out some stuff for cat. Is post 68 when I'll start getting better stuff?

I've replaced my warden staff with the Braxxis staff of slumber and I use the staff of beasts for my grinding in cat. I guess my question is to guys is when did you guys replace your highwarlord stuff? Should I still have it at this point?

Thanks!

Shadowmoon Valley is the place for tank gear, alot of very nice pieces from the quests there. Legs, bracer, gloves, belt are peices I can remember off the top of my head.

I dont pvp so havent paid attention to any of the warlord gear, but right now shoulders are the only peice I am lacking in my tanking gear. My dps shoulders work great, but I would like to get a pair of tanking only shoulders I can enchant. I am hoping to eventually get tier 4 shoulders for my tanking.

First, let me clear the math part up.

Dire Bear ADDS 450% armor value, that is, multiply the item's base armor by 5.5 to get the effective value. Thick Hide is MULTIPLICATIVE to this, so if you have TH3, and want to know the value in bear form, multiply by 6.05. I've verified this personally and can state with 100% certainty that this is correct. To test it yourself, go into DB, then remove an item with armor (but no agility) and check out the difference in armor.

OK, that said. I'm running around right now with 25,310 armor in DB and around 12k HP with just paws on, plus about 23% dodge. I'd say, for tanking actual level 70 content, you want about 20k armor and 10k HP as minimums. If you stack more agility for better dodge, you can slide a little on the armor. I'm almost to the point where if I got a good enough agi/dodge trinket, I may finally ditch one of my armor trinkets. I've made some minor concessions in armor for hp/dodge already, and I'm happy with it. As you approach 75% mitigation, it gets more and more attractive to do so.

Anyway, to the original topic. The first thing you want to look for in tank gear are those items with UNUSUALLY high armor values for their slot. For example, the Jerkin of the Untamed Spirit from a Hellfire Peninsula quest gives 425 AC for a chest piece. Bingo. The other stats aren't too shabby either. Between Blade's Edge and Shadowmoon quests, you can get green boots, pants (475!), and a belt all with unusually high AC and a blue bracer with some absurd amount like 352, where 100 is usually a lot for a leather bracer.

The reason for this is that items are built with a point system where depending on their color, level, and slot, they get a certain amount of points to distribute to stats. Armor is relatively "cheap" in terms of these points, so items with oddly high armor values are usually only giving up, say, a few str and agi or something for an extra 100 or whatever armor. This armor multiplies for us, which makes it a great bargain.

That's behind the "armor is #1 philosophy" -- don't give up large amounts of otherwise good stats for an extra 10 or 20 armor, but if you see something way out of line (and, by rule, any armor on items that generally have 0, like rings and weapons fall into this category), hone in on those like a beacon.

After that, I'd say your next key stat is dodge/agility. Which is better is just a question of how much, but agi gives both a little direct ac and crit chance, which is great for generating rage and hate.

Stamina's your next stat -- you want to have a healthy HP pool. Considering itemization in BC (where they made stamina "cheap" in the point system) I doubt you'll have to actively pursue it, though.

Then come the offensive stats: STR, hit rating, crit rating, weapon skill, attack power, etc. It's good to have for rage and hate building, but it's not helping you much once you're already being hit. I don't think you can AVOID getting a healthy amount of this on otherwise good gear, so you probably won't want to worry about it, though you might try to make sure you have at least a little +hit around.

The other thing you want to pay attention to is anti-crit, which can come from either defense rating or resilience. Defense also has a little anti-hit in it, where as resilience has reduced damage on crits. There's not a huge difference in value between the ratings, so take whatever's easier to get in quantity. The most effective anti-crit measure is the talent Survival of the Fittest, which is a flat 1% per point up to 3% and will take the place of a ton of gear.
How much you NEED anti-crit is largely a question of how tough the stuff you're fighting. If you're just cruising some high-60s 5-man stuff... ehh, whatever, it's not a big deal, get a nice resilience/defense neck and/or rings and forget about it. You can skip SotF safely (and I'd probably recommend it). But if you're going to be MTing raid content, it gets to be pretty vital, somewhere just below dodge.

write down your armor. go to bear form, and write down your armor. divide the two.

ive tried it with multiple different sets of gear with wide ranges of armor value's. it always comes up to 4.6.

BTW, to address this directly: Not all of your armor value comes from armor value that takes the dire bear multiplier. Armor gained through agility, non-base item value, like armor kits or armor enchantments, and buffs (like Mark of the Wild) aren't affected by the Dire Bear effect, so this method isn't useful for getting the value you're looking for.

I mentioned this above, but to check this out, shift to dire bear with something like a +150 armor ring or trinket on (with 0 agility), then remove it. Without Thick Hide, you will see your armor value drop by 825 (5.5 times 150). If you have Thick Hide 3, you'll see it drop by 907 or 908, depending on the rounding (6.05 times 150). Like I said, I've checked it personally, but don't take my word for it, do it yourself.

Looks like I am pretty set on my gear now, until I start seeing any feral epics even then in my armor lookups my blue/greens are still better.

http://www.ctprofiles.net/5128643


Calculations on ct profiles still arent working out, but with my mark(2/5 talented), I am sitting at 11105 hitpoints, 26348(71.39%), 26.5% dodge, and 408 defense.

I can swap out my Smoking heart trinket for a +def one, I drop down to 25441(70.67) armor but hit the "uncritable" defense value.

My next upgrade I am hoping it Tier4 shoulders, I can socket and enchant them for tanking, since the Cleansed Fel will still be better for dps.

I picked up Shoulderpads of Assassination for tanking, gonna put a couple Enduring Talasite in them (+4 Defense Rating and +6 Stamina). Should be fine til I get my T4 shoulders.

Ahh, always forget we can wear that set. =)

Be a tad better than Cleansed Fel.

Have you chosen Aldor/Scyer yet? Can get another nice enchant for them there.

Yeah, I went Aldor, and have added the Inscription of Warding (adds 13 dodge rating to a shoulder slot item). About 1/3 of the way to exalted when I'll be able to get the Greater Inscription, but doubt I would put it on Shoulderpads of Assassination, will be waiting for my T4 for sure.

When I farmed my exalted for Aldor, I ended up with around 50some dusts plenty to use on sub items before my epics, so I am defiantly going to try and get some of those Assassination shoulders and beef them up. Might be a while till I get get my hands on T4.

what method did you guys use to get the rep with aldor? or scryer for that matter

farm demons in shadowmoon, or netherstorm ;)

Kinda off the subject here..but I farmed the demons at Death's Door in Blade's Edge, grinded out 68-70 there on demons, since you can just fly out and sell/mail at Toshleys. Was hardly anyone there at all, few questers every once in a while

Regarding stat allocation, I put together a (pre-nerf) resource for my guild that basically plagiarized all the different resources into one simplified document.

The bottom line is, it's almost a moot point on whether to take +sta over +agi, etc., because in the end, you've only got 1-2 items to choose from in any given slot that are realistically attainable. In other words, even though we have better itemization than before, we still have a "gear funnel" and by the time you get the high-armour leather you don't have much variation to choose from.

~-For overall damage mitigation: Armour > Stamina > Agility > Dodge > Defense (up to +65 skill / +156 rating) > Resilience
~-For overall threat generation: Strength > Agility
~-For survivability against endgame physical DPS: Defense (up to +65 skill / +156 rating) > Stamina > Armour > Agility > Dodge > Resilience
~-For survivability against endgame magical DPS: Stamina > Magic Resistance > Agility > Dodge > Resilience
All four of these are very important, and it's the job of the druid to prioritize them properly in order to mitigate damage, survive against crits and damage spikes, and generate threat.
My suggestion for overall performance is: Defense (up to +65 skill / +156 rating) > Armour (up to ~25k) > Stamina > Agility > Dodge > Strength > Resilience. Overall, once you get your defense skill up, there isn't a lot of juggling to be done due to the amount of "bear tank" items in the game. You really only have a few items to choose from, and WoW is a simple enough game, that no matter what your choices are out of these items you will still be viable.
When fighting primarily magic-damage mobs, re-prioritize the gear you wear to: Stamina > Magic Resistance > Everything Else.

Here's a link to a few resources I put together for my guild (most are copied or re-compiled from various sources):
http://www.nightelfcollective.com/library/DruidTankingSimplified
http://www.nightelfcollective.com/library/DruidItemsTankingPre
http://www.nightelfcollective.com/library/DruidDamageMitigation

I really do feel from my own experience tanking in places like Tempest Keep or Karazhan, it's absolutely worth it to get crit immunity (+156 defense *rating* w/ 3/3 SotF). I haven't finished my CE or Scryer rep grind, but I have everything else listed below--and unless my math's wrong this gear setup provides ~23k armour, ~10k health, 415 defense (pre-patch):
Head: Stylin' Leather Hat w/ Keepers of Time enchant
Neck: Natasha's Pack Collar
Shoulder: Highlander's Lizardhide Shoulders w/ Scryer Exalted enchant
Back: Thoriumweave Cloak
Chest: Chestguard of the Talon
Wrist: Umberhowl's Collar
Hands: Verdant Gloves
Waist: Manimal's Cinch
Legs: Heavy Clefthoof Leggings
- +4 Def / +6 Sta
- +4 Def / +6 Sta
- +8 Def
Feet: Supple Leather Boots
Finger 1: Violet Signet (subs. Iron Band of the Unbreakable)
Finger 2: Iron Band of the Unbreakable
Trinket 1: Smoking Heart of the Mountain
Trinket 2: Mark of Tyranny
Weapon: Earthwarden

This set-up is about 1-2 points shy of complete crit immunity (~0.08). Basically I'm using Heavy Clefthoof over Ash Tempered Leggings because of the huge +def & stamina boost over Ash Tempered. Heavy Clefthoof seem to just soak more damage due to the increased stamina as well.
- +8 Def

I have the full Strength of the clefhoof but il am 67 so haven't slipped it on. I didn't know about the set bonus only applying to Leather workers - which bites!!!

I will probably wear the legs b4 I get Cleffhoof Hide leggings (a quest reward) as I prefer to be able to crit and generate agro. Dmg in bear is important!!

I have enough honor points for the Generals Epic leather boots but Bliz still haven't fixed the stat difference with these compared to Marshal's - which sucks! There dps isn't as good as alot of leather gear but they will fill my +res slot and pretty much are the best mitigation boots.

Chest is strange, I have the Warden Hauberk still (CE rep ) the Heavy Clefthoof is probaly a better tanking piece but not by much. I will probaly aim for Chestguard of the Talon or Hauberk of Karabok for more tanking dps. Heavy Clefthoof is still a good choice...

I personally push dodge and hp the most. I have 21.1k hp and 41% dodge fully buffed. At 22.5k ac, I'm a little short of where I'd like to be, but I was willing to make a small sacrifice there.

I wasn't quite sure if I should trade in some other stats for more HP, but after last night I was sold on this strategy. At grow 17 (8%) our MT died on Gruul and I took over all the way through grow 20 where we killed him. If it wasn't for the high hp/dodge, theres no way I could have sustained taking 13-18k hits.

I had previously posted the picks for best kitty enchants in another thread and thought I would post the best tanking enchants here:

Back: Enchant Cloak - Greater Agility (+12 Agi)
Chest: Enchant Chest - Exceptional Stats (+6 All Stats)
Feet: Enchant Boots - Dexterity (+12 Agi)
Finger: Enchant Ring - Stats (+4 All Stats)
Hands: Greater Agility (+7 Agi)
Head: Glyph of the Defender (+17 Dodge, +16 Defense)
Legs: Nethercleft Armor (+12 Agi, +35 Sta)
Shoulder: Greater Inscription of Warding ((" " Knight for Scryer)) (+15 Dodge, +10 Defense) ((+10 Dodge, +15 Defense))
Wrist: Enchant Bracer - Fortutide (+12 Sta)
One-Hand: +15 Agi
Two-Hand: +35 Agi

This arrangement should give the best overall boost to your mitigation gear though enchants/kits/rep and give you a little extra as you tank through Kara and beyond!

hmm, i like your idea, i think i'll work on sta > agi/dodge > ac as priorities now too. :)

I personally push dodge and hp the most. I have 21.1k hp and 41% dodge fully buffed. At 22.5k ac, I'm a little short of where I'd like to be, but I was willing to make a small sacrifice there.

I wasn't quite sure if I should trade in some other stats for more HP, but after last night I was sold on this strategy. At grow 17 (8%) our MT died on Gruul and I took over all the way through grow 20 where we killed him. If it wasn't for the high hp/dodge, theres no way I could have sustained taking 13-18k hits.

I also push agi/dodge over ac to a point. I have a comparable armor set to chloee (in fact we might almost be identical). I find that pumping up the armor at the expense of dodge or agi has led to less satisfactory results in instances. My feedback from healers is that the slight DR I gain on each hit is not worth the hits I would have dodged (basically they like the downtime with no dps since their heals are big enough to cover the inc dps). Fortunately, when we get tier 4/5, we won't really have to choose. We can have our cake and eat it too (don't forget the arena shoulders =])

I also push agi/dodge over ac to a point. I have a comparable armor set to chloee (in fact we might almost be identical). I find that pumping up the armor at the expense of dodge or agi has led to less satisfactory results in instances. My feedback from healers is that the slight DR I gain on each hit is not worth the hits I would have dodged (basically they like the downtime with no dps since their heals are big enough to cover the inc dps). Fortunately, when we get tier 4/5, we won't really have to choose. We can have our cake and eat it too (don't forget the arena shoulders =])

Wow, another tanking Druid that knows how to gear! I'm our recruiting officer, come join our guild <3

(cross-fingers dont be horde)

Wow, another tanking Druid that knows how to gear! I'm our recruiting officer, come join our guild <3

(cross-fingers dont be horde)

Why don't you two post some links to the gear that gives you those amazing stats (names will do too). It'd be a great help for all other tanks present on this forum that are aspiring to achieve such great stats too :texla:

Cheers

Dirt McGirt

Bears are much easier to gear than cats really. After tier 4 helm and shoulders, or their arena counterparts, there really isn't much you need out of 5 mans to be considered well-geared. The only real pointers are to get the heroic neck and ring, clefthoof bp and legs, and don't always assume the highest ac item is the best. You can look at my gear profile as well. It's usually in cat gear, but I'll try to remember to log in bear next time.