Hey all.

Just got back into WoW w/BC after a year's hiatus and need some advice on droo builds. Like the title says I'm mainly feral but I like a little more resto for instances and PvP. Before the expansion I had a 0/30/21 build w/natures swiftness that was satisfactory. With the new trees, Mangle looks really appealing - esp for bear. Is it even conceivable to go less than 41 pts feral and sacrifice Mangle in order to get Nature's Swiftness?

Either way, any suggestions for appropriate builds?

Here's a summary as to what happened while you were away::

FERAL AND BALANCE TREES GOT A MAJOR BUFFS!

what does this mean? You don't have to be a healer in every group you are in.

First thing first. Mangle is probably the best 41 talent in the game.
Druids are (in my opinion) more often sought after as TANKS than HEALERS (for 5mans/heroics/entry raids). I suggest (assuming you are level 60 and trying to level and run instances to 70 and at 70) going full-out feral.

Start out with this build:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZxGMsfroeuioV

and work towards building your resto tree so it would look like this when you hit 70:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0zZxGMsfroeuioVxhz

If you want to heal @ 70 that's your choice but I find for 5mans/Heroics it is MUCH more easier to find groups as a tank than a healer.

Another opinion, if you just want to focus on leveling from 60-70 before you jump into lots-o-pvp, I'd suggest starting at lvl 60 with this build (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZxGMcfroezwoVx). Put your lvl 61 talent into Omen of Clarity. And finish at lvl 70 with this build (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0zZxGMsfroeuioVxcz).

Now, if you think you are going to stay away from serious PvP and focus on tanking (at any level) and healing (5-man non-heroics), move the 3 points out of Primal Tenacity into Thick Hide. That's what I plan on doing, as I have no interest in PvP.

Natural Shapeshifter is a nice PvP talent, where as Intensity is a Feral boost type talent (helps with tanking and healing roles). So, you may want to move points around as needed.

I would, however, get OoC at lvl 61. And then use the rest of your talent points to flesh out your build. OoC with Mangle is an excellent leveling combination. And I would think OoC isn't all that bad for Feral PvP.

Good luck. Don't be afraid to ask questions on this board. We're all here to help.

We're all here to help.

I was promised punch and pie....

:wiggle:

The cake ...erm... pie is a lie.

Thanks for the great responses.

Made it to 62 so far and like Trix said, I have already been invited to an instance grp to... tank. WTF? I thought. Was expecting the permanent silence I used to get after revealing that I was feral.

Ok so mangle is in. Have some other Q's though, please bear with me (har har).

Shredding attacks: I rarely used shred. Just never found myself in a situation where I was full time dps in a PvE grp scenario. In PvP, the enemy rarely stands still enough to use it regularly. I see that it now helps out with 'laceration.' Is this talent now really worth the 2 pts?

Nurturing Instincts: Never see this talent recommended. Is it a turkey talent?

For those that are heavier into PvP, I found that I use to have good surivability with some decent pts in Improved Nature's Grasp and Nature's Focus. Any thoughts on pulling no more than 5 of the typical 46 feral pts out to boost them?

Thanks in advance

-Oak

Shredding attacks: I rarely used shred. Just never found myself in a situation where I was full time dps in a PvE grp scenario. In PvP, the enemy rarely stands still enough to use it regularly. I see that it now helps out with 'laceration.' Is this talent now really worth the 2 pts?

Nurturing Instincts: Never see this talent recommended. Is it a turkey talent?


Shredding attacks is definitely a group-PvE DPS talent. It's amazing what it can do to your overall DPS in raids and 5mans but not essential if you find yourself either soloing or tanking most of the time. If you ever decide to go feral @ 70 though it's a must have imo.

Nurturing instincts isn't worth the 2 points imo. Just the way the game plays and your playstyle will be while feral, chances are if you have to shift out and heal your group is going to wipe or survive, WITH OR WITHOUT the talent. Of course the little bonus healing is nice and all but not quite worth dumping 2 points in for.

Shredding attacks is also one of the primo solo questing talent. Assuming Mangle and OoC, my typical solo encounter is...

Stealth
Pounce
Mangle
Shred
Shred (if OoC procs)
(mob wakes-up)
FFF
Mangle (if not at 4 CP)
Rip

Now if the mob is "green", or I find I need to pull it away from other mobs, I'll just pull with FFF and Mangle 'till 4 CP and Rip.

And, as mentioned above, it is one of only three group PvE attacks (Mangle-->Shred (to 4-5 CP)-->wait for ~60 energy-->Rip-->repeat).

I'd keep it until you reach lvl 70 (just for solo leveling) and then respec out of it if you find you don't need it.

Might want to consider an energy bar addon. I use EnergyWatchv2 (community version?!?!?). So, you can time your pounce to occur just before you get extra energy.

Shredding attacks is not a solo talent, it only shows real value in a raid situation. The only time you'll ever use it when soloing is if you open with pounce. And unless you have really crap gear, prowling around and using pounce to open when questing/farming makes for a long session.

I found the opposite to be true. When my gear was crappy and my mangle did the same or better damage than my shred (basically pre-outland gear) the FFF-->Mangle*4-->Rip was faster. Now that I have ~1600AP, ~27% crit and OoC procs 2 times per 3 mobs, the pounce method is much faster. Of course, it helps if the mobs are close together. The pounce/mangle/shred method also reduces the annoying (at least for me) downtime of having to heal as often (former hunter) and I have a Mark of Conquest (no 'shroom yet).

When questing, you should always have max energy at the beginning of an encounter regardless of which method you use. You can achieve this by standing still pulling mobs at the right time (say when you have ~80E), or just run in and stealth right as you reach the agro radius. With caster/hunter type mobs it makes no sense to not use the pounce method, though they are the exception to the more common meat-n-potato type mobs.

Maybe this will change once I get a much higher AP/Crit.

Nurturing instincts isn't worth the 2 points imo. Just the way the game plays and your playstyle will be while feral, chances are if you have to shift out and heal your group is going to wipe or survive, WITH OR WITHOUT the talent. Of course the little bonus healing is nice and all but not quite worth dumping 2 points in for.

I like Nurturing Instinct. It's nice for a lot of different situations. It's the sort of thing hybrid druids would go for. I like it because although it impacts my dps slightly by not going with another talent that is useful for dps, it allows me greater flexibility to Save the Day. It's also very nice for pvp because even if full CatAttack™ gear I still have a respectable amount of +healing, which is good for my survivability. :>


-Annikk

I don't know. 250 +healing do not change much. And with the change to Heart of the Wild we will start seeing more druids that have more AP on their equip, and not str.

And of that 250 you will have only a part on your HoTs, making it even less efficient.

As I remember, in pvp gear I have 312 +healing. That's enough to make a significant difference to the power of my healing spells.

I off-heal a lot. In raids, and pvp. If you're a rog fighting alongside me you can trust that I won't just let you die if you get in trouble.
If I didn't heal as much then it wouldn't be worth having this talent. But I do. So it is. :>


-Annikk

Maybe this will change once I get a much higher AP/Crit.After my questing session last night, I think the FFF->Mangle Mash v PMS (Pounce Mangle Shred) is more situational. There are times when PMS is the obvious choice, ie Caster/hunter mobs, higher level mobs, etc. And times when the Mangle Mash is better, ie pulling mobs away from others, non-casting mobs, selective mob targeting, "green" level mobs, etc.

Last night I had to obtain wolf pelts and kill warp stalkers in Terokkar Forest. These mobs are all mixed together. So, at first I could use PMS to quickly go from mob to mob without issue. The drop rate on the wolf pelts seems to be about 25% so it didn't take long before I no longer needed the warp stalkers (except to make warp burgers, yum!). So, I starting using the Mangle Mash to selectively pull the wolves out of the groups of mobs (other wolves and warp stalkers).

In short, keep and use, both attack profiles in your on-deck arsenal. As both are needed. That's what Druids do, adapt. It has taken me quite a while to learn that coming from a Hunter where, while questing, you do the same thing over and over. And rarely have a need change tactics.

I found the opposite to be true. When my gear was crappy and my mangle did the same or better damage than my shred (basically pre-outland gear) the FFF-->Mangle*4-->Rip was faster. Now that I have ~1600AP, ~27% crit and OoC procs 2 times per 3 mobs, the pounce method is much faster. Of course, it helps if the mobs are close together. The pounce/mangle/shred method also reduces the annoying (at least for me) downtime of having to heal as often (former hunter) and I have a Mark of Conquest (no 'shroom yet).

When questing, you should always have max energy at the beginning of an encounter regardless of which method you use. You can achieve this by standing still pulling mobs at the right time (say when you have ~80E), or just run in and stealth right as you reach the agro radius. With caster/hunter type mobs it makes no sense to not use the pounce method, though they are the exception to the more common meat-n-potato type mobs.

Maybe this will change once I get a much higher AP/Crit.
The time spent in combat might be less when opening with pounce+shred. But I guarantee this: take two players in similar gear, one stealthing around to get pounce openers and the other just running around and pulling with FFF/mangle. After an hour the player opening with pounce has less kills.

After an hour the player opening with pounce has less kills.Prowl doesn't really slow you down all that much if you use it correctly. The key is to not prowl until you reach the edge of a mob's aggro radius. Sure if you prowl from mob to mob it will take longer.

If you are really trying to go "all out crazy" killing mob after mob after mob (how often does that happen??) the limiting factor is energy regen. If you start combat without near, or max, energy you are going to slow down the whole process.

This is really more of a style thing. I just don't go "balls out" when I'm questing. Walking from mob to mob, even if I'm using FFF to pull, still has quite a bit of "down time" in my book.

As I said before, once your gear hits a certain point you will find that even only taking two seconds to prowl to a mob is adding 25% or more to your killing time. When I am doing dailies and farming mobs they die in 6-8 seconds using nothing but mangle and fero bite.

they die in 6-8 seconds using nothing but mangle and fero bite.That's crazy. Even when I take on green mobs it takes me at least 15+ seconds to take them out (unless I get multiple crits) regardless of which method I use. That's insane. The fact that FB is even an option means I have a long way to go gearwise. As I almost never get to use FB on bleedable mobs. As it stands now I typically have mobs at ~40-60% health once I reach 4 CP and start Rip. I only use FB if the mob's health is below 20% and I have 4-5 CP.

And I think I have good gear for a lvl 65 player.

That's crazy. Even when I take on green mobs it takes me at least 15+ seconds to take them out (unless I get multiple crits) regardless of which method I use.
It's true. When your gear gets higher as a 70, your kill times get insanely short. I still use Prowl/Pounce/FFF/Mangle/Shred/Shred (although it's probably faster to do it the other way), and if I get a crit or two and an OOC proc, the mob's dead before Pounce wears off and they turn on me. That's a nice feeling, something to look forward to.

Pounce also uses a load of energy, which could be better spent on sum more CuP o MaNGeL!! ^_^


-Annikk

I don't know. 250 +healing do not change much. And with the change to Heart of the Wild we will start seeing more druids that have more AP on their equip, and not str.

What are the changes to HotW that now favor +attack power over +strength?

HotW was changed with the last patch. Instead of giving 20% to strength, it now increases AP by 10%. It still works on the value after all buffs. All considered, most, if not all, Druids now have more AP. Our DPS scales better with better gear now. Also we can consider some rogue gear (only AP, no str). This was done to give us more DPS in end-game raids.

HotW was changed with the last patch. Instead of giving 20% to strength, it now increases AP by 10%. It still works on the value after all buffs. All considered, most, if not all, Druids now have more AP. Our DPS scales better with better gear now. Also we can consider some rogue gear (only AP, no str). This was done to give us more DPS in end-game raids.

But isnt attack power still proportional to 2 x str in cat form (or some value > 1)? So that +str gear is still useful?

But isnt attack power still proportional to 2 x str in cat form (or some value > 1)? So that +str gear is still useful?That is true. It is something like 2.03 AP per str due to that other +stat talent we have. Use to be closer to 2.5 per str.

But now blizzard just has to make rogue gear, rather than rogue and cat gear.

But isnt attack power still proportional to 2 x str in cat form (or some value > 1)? So that +str gear is still useful?

Of course +str gear is still useful. But now we have more choice for our equipment.

But now blizzard just has to make rogue gear, rather than rogue and cat gear.

QFT

Even before the change, Agility was better than Strength for DPS--the two were equal, but Agility was by far easier to get, I believe. And now it's just all the better and an increase in DPS.

And regarding Nuturing Instinct, here is my opinion.

I was a druid that was in SSC/TK, and I had it. Then again, my reasons were more acceptable as I tried to PvP in my off-time and I made the most of my druid.

There was one heroic run where having it really showed up. For whatever reason, our healer kept drawing aggro and dying instantly. This was no problem, though. I'd swap out my weapon, and I'd have a good 500-700 +healing, and we'd survive the pulls--not a single wipe.

On certain fights when I was DPSing (very rare) or had a unique task (core duty/elemental clean-up on Vashj), or couldn't do anything at the time (Kael), my Nurturing Instinct and Natural Shapeshifter allowed me to help out the raid in general, along with my heal weapon swap.

But, that was before the HotW change, and I was spoiled as I ran around in T5 and equivalent.

So, it is worthwhile if you make it worthwhile and adjust your playstyle accordingly. I think I was the only raiding feral on my server with that and Natural Shapeshifter--they all had Brutal Impact or Intensity or Primal Tenacity.

In any case, I probably wouldn't pick it up for leveling, especially after the HotW change... and not to mention it doesn't really tally up until you're in epics.

Shredding attacks, however, I probably would snag for solo'ing. But it's a tough call. Yeah, you use it sparingly after a pounce, but don't forget: if you ever suddenly need to tank something, it helps the lacerate-spam for threat, or the shred-spam for your DPS. It's a good talent, and I miss it as resto (either in solo'ing or tanking... yeah, lazy friends; they made me tank a heroic as resto. :|)

And personally, I stopped prowling when I was geared out; it took 3-7 seconds to kill a mob just mangle/FB spamming, sometimes extra if I felt like maim/shredding. I forgot what I did when leveling... nearly a year ago, now.

Hey all.

Just got back into WoW w/BC after a year's hiatus and need some advice on droo builds. Like the title says I'm mainly feral but I like a little more resto for instances and PvP. Before the expansion I had a 0/30/21 build w/natures swiftness that was satisfactory. With the new trees, Mangle looks really appealing - esp for bear. Is it even conceivable to go less than 41 pts feral and sacrifice Mangle in order to get Nature's Swiftness?

Either way, any suggestions for appropriate builds? 40/0/21 is a nice balance build. Feral is different though. You'll want to go resto as your secondary talent tree, sure, but not so deep as you nerf your tanking/kitty dps talents. Omen of Clarity is as deep as you really need to go. Unless you want to lean Bear, in which case Intensity is extremely useful.

Observe (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZxhGscroezioVx0z).

The final 8 points are clearly debatable. Improved MotW would be nice, you'd get some STR and AGI out of it. But yeah. It's not an issue of "is that 41st point in feral worth it." It is. And it's worth a couple more too. Balance? Not so much. If you were going balance, you could get into that debate. But as you're going feral, there's no real debate. Dump at least 42 in there. :)