Hey fellow druids,

I started tanking heroics a week ago to prepare for Kara. I don't have a problem with single target mobs (exeptions with my critting fire mage party member....:Eyecrazy: ), but we did heroic Shattered halls last night, and at one point i had to tank 4 mobs, and i ended up chasing the mobs that went for our healer. i pulled with wrath on 1, moonfire on second and fff on 3th, shifted to bear form, and took a swipe at the mobs in front of me, then a mangle on skull, started spamming lacerate on skull, meaning to tab through targets and lacerate them... keyword here being "meaning to", cos 2 were suddenly enormously interesed in our healer with finaly a total wipe :( .
1 of our dps'sers had an alt warrior, so he went and got him to play for the 3 groups to OT 2 mobs while i was tanking the other 2 /blush.
Long story short we succeeded the escape quest so i did not do that bad....but i don't know what i am doing wrong, for 1 thing i think that my + hit is still to low, but i don't want to sacrifice to much HP cos atm i have +/- 16k hp party buffed (in raids maybe a bit more) and +/- 21 k armor in bear form.
Any expirienced druid tank that can help me out here how to maximise my tps without suffering to much ....?
link to the armory :
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bronzebeard&n=Ahrwin

tnx in advance for your help

Multimob tanking pretty much requires the use of swipe. Your best bet is to do the following:

2 Pull - HOT yourself up fully. Starfire/Moonfire on secondary target, Bear form, Enrage, Maul on Skull, Mangle, Swipe.....

3 Pull - Same as the first except you may want to throw in a moonfire on the third target just for extra starting agro.

4 Pull - HOT yourself to full, Starfire on the fourth Target, MF on Third, Pray on second kill target.. Enrage, Demoralizing Roar, Maul on Skull, Mangle, Swipe...

Four pulls are really pushing it for Druids. It can be done, but you'll always risk them running off to whack the healer.

I'm not real good at it yet, but I've read the "key" to multi-mob tanking is using a mouseover lacerate macro.

"/cast [target=mouseover] lacerate"

Assign it to an easy to reach key (or mouse button). Pull as above. Once the mobs are within range, do not target the non-primary mob(s). Instead use the above macro to stack a couple of lacerates on each non-primary mob. Once that has been accomplished, use swipe (though it doesn't help much on 4 pulls until you are down to 3 mobs).

By using the macro to add threat to non-primary targets, your white attacks, mauls, mangles and non-macro'd Lacerates will hit your primary target (skull) while still building some threat on the non-primary targets to overcome AoE and/or healing threat. It helps to use the built-in "show mobs health on a bar floating above their head" function (Ctrl-V??) to more easily target with your mouse. I've heard that the addon Aloft is "better" than the built-in floating health bars, but have not tried it yet.

I'm not real good at it yet, but I've read the "key" to multi-mob tanking is using a mouseover lacerate macro.

"/cast [target=mouseover] Lacerate"

Can't stress this enough.

Lacerate is amazing at holding multi-mob aggro.

What I'll do on Multi-Mob pulls is this.

-Lacerate rotation until each mob gets 2.
-Toss Mangle on the primary target.
-Lacerate around each mob again to get 3 (if you're fast enough)
-Focus and kill primary target with Maul/Swipe.

Use Maul as your aggro attack on target #1 (it doesn't share the GCD with Swipe, allowing you to do both as much as possible)


It takes time to get really good at it, but it's fun as heck once you get the hang of multi-mob tanking.

While you're learning the tricks, just ask your group to give you a couple seconds before attacking and you should be fine.

I like switching targets while swiping as well. This is especially important when facing 4 mobs, as it allows you to hit 3 different mobs with each swipe. That should provide some threat. But yeah, you may have to have DPS slow down a bit and only get heals off.

I'm not real good at it yet, but I've read the "key" to multi-mob tanking is using a mouseover lacerate macro.

"/cast [target=mouseover] lacerate"According to The Rambling Bear (http://ramblingbear.blogspot.com/2008/02/aclabt4-tab-lacerate-fallacy-and.html) we should use a mouseover swipe ("/cast [targer=mouseover] swipe") if you have more than 3 mobs, as 3 swipes generates more threat than 3 separate lacerates.

So, with 3 mobs target the kill mob and give him all your mangles, mauls and white damage and an occasional lacerate (after you've done 3-4 swipes). Otherwise use swipe whenever mangle is on cooldown.

With 4 mobs, it sounds like a mouseover swipe might be a better choice than a mouseover lacerate, as it allows you to generate more threat on more mobs than lacerate in the same amount of time. Mouseover a mob on the left side -- swipe macro. Mouseover mob on left side -- swipe macro. Mouseover no one -- swipe. Manlge primary target. Repeat. Maul whenever it is up and you have plenty of rage (though with 4 mobs on you rage shouldn't be an issue).

With 5+ mobs, go buy some CC. :lol:

One more thing, sometimes you can't use swipe due to CC issues. In that case you have to use mouseover lacerate to hold agro on multiple mobs.

I would avoid tab-targeting and using swipe (or lacerate) as there is a good chance you'll reduce your TPS. YMMV.

I would avoid tab-targeting and using swipe (or lacerate) as there is a good chance you'll reduce your TPS. YMMV.Why? How is tab-targeting and swiping any different than mouseover and swiping? It's not as perfect because it's not as precise, but as long as you're spamming swipe you should be fine.

All good points. Make sure to hit the first target with a Maul / Mangle right off the bat (queue up maul, then mangle to 'slam' aggro).

HoT'ing yourself helps bigtime, especially if you can time it so that Lifebloom blooms right as the mobs are getting to you. The heals you cast on yourself all add to your aggro.

Don't forget Demoralizing Roar. That is a good way to build a mediocre amount of aggro on mutliple targets after you stick the skull to yourself with maul / mangle, giving you time to tab lacerate or mouseover lacerate.

And finally, communicate with the group. on those pulls if a warlock is SoC'ing everything, or if a rogue pops bladeflurry, they will pull aggro. Marking targets with a kill order really helps, and if everyone targets in the corect order, all you should really have to worry about is the healer pulling aggro from you. And with a lacerate or two, demo roar and swipe spam you should be fine :)

Why? How is tab-targeting and swiping any different than mouseover and swiping? It's not as perfect because it's not as precise, but as long as you're spamming swipe you should be fine.I couldn't remember why tab-lacerates or tab-swipes were "bad" earlier. But it just came to me.

If you tab off your primary target your white damage or mauls could (will?) land on the non-primary target. We still need to generate the maximum threat on the primary target, using mouseover macros makes that much easier.

There's an interesting article on <a href="http://teethandclaws.blogspot.com/2008/02/tanking-multiple-enemies.html">Of Teeth and Claws</a> which suggests using Hurricane to pull groups of three or more for best aggro. An interesting idea which I have yet to try myself :)

Hugs,
Tiniane.

That works very well, Tiniane :> I use that very often, especially in instances with huge numbers of mobs such as Shattered Halls. Just make sure you get into bear form before they start hitting you ;)


-Annikk

I've use it quite often in Heroic runs as well. As the healers tend to start blasting heals as soon as the mobs get near you, so it helps to get some initial threat (not just agro) on all mobs.

I cast Barkskin before I use Hurricane. Just make sure you have plenty of mana before you start a pull like this. Otherwise, you just might get stuck in bear form.

tnx for all the replies here :) , i MT'd Kara for the first time on wednesday and i did ok, pfww, we cleared up till curator (got Romulo and Julienne for opera-event :)) and i never lost agro on any of my mobs, so your tips were really helpfull.
I did try shat halls again yesterday with the same group, and i experienced the same probs in the fire event like i did last time... after taking a closer look at why this was happening, i realised that it was only our pally healer that was taking agro all the time, and now i now why :cry: , at the moment i started to pull, he was already tossing around free flash heals like crazy (never got a straight answer as to why tbh...), so afterall it was not entirely my fault, and druid tanks do rock :buttrock:

Yeah, even in Heroics the trash mobs shouldn't be one-shotting you.

Get your healers to sit back for a second then heal like crazy seems to help.

Good luck!

If you tab off your primary target your white damage or mauls could (will?) land on the non-primary target. We still need to generate the maximum threat on the primary target, using mouseover macros makes that much easier.That's reasonable. I was thinking that having white hits on the offtargets isn't the worst thing ever (and wrote as such in another thread) but I can see a reasonable argument for not. It really depends on how much threat is being put out by a healer or not, I suppose.

There's an interesting article on <a href="http://teethandclaws.blogspot.com/2008/02/tanking-multiple-enemies.html">Of Teeth and Claws</a> which suggests using Hurricane to pull groups of three or more for best aggro. An interesting idea which I have yet to try myself :)

Hugs,
Tiniane.


Gee I have been doing that since Scholomance days, especially in one of the side crypts with all those skeletons. Fun!

It also works well in other multi mob place SH etc. I generally have enuff time after to throw a regen on to help all the dmg ur be taking!!

Druidism is about using all the aspects of a druid!

Another point worth mentioning is that people don't usually start running heroics by diving into SH. :biggrinfl

According to The Rambling Bear (http://ramblingbear.blogspot.com/2008/02/aclabt4-tab-lacerate-fallacy-and.html) we should use a mouseover swipe ("/cast [targer=mouseover] swipe") if you have more than 3 mobs, as 3 swipes generates more threat than 3 separate lacerates.

So, with 3 mobs target the kill mob and give him all your mangles, mauls and white damage and an occasional lacerate (after you've done 3-4 swipes). Otherwise use swipe whenever mangle is on cooldown.

With 4 mobs, it sounds like a mouseover swipe might be a better choice than a mouseover lacerate, as it allows you to generate more threat on more mobs than lacerate in the same amount of time. Mouseover a mob on the left side -- swipe macro. Mouseover mob on left side -- swipe macro. Mouseover no one -- swipe. Manlge primary target. Repeat. Maul whenever it is up and you have plenty of rage (though with 4 mobs on you rage shouldn't be an issue).

With 5+ mobs, go buy some CC. :lol:

One more thing, sometimes you can't use swipe due to CC issues. In that case you have to use mouseover lacerate to hold agro on multiple mobs.

I would avoid tab-targeting and using swipe (or lacerate) as there is a good chance you'll reduce your TPS. YMMV.

With 2.4 and the changes to swipe not breaking CC I am wondering if this mouseover macro makes even more sense than before. Now understand my analysis comes from just looking at the some of the data and "I" am only lvl 56 at this point. It looks like though if you are running at least 5/5 in ferocity the cost is the same (swipe vs lacerate). Even if you have 2/2 shredding attacks the difference is only 4 rage. Lacerate only hits one mob and because of the bleed affect it would break post application CC efforts.

I guess my next thought is what is the threat difference between maul and lacerate. No doubt maul works outside of the GCD but from a rage to threat perspective which makes the most sense to apply to your primary target? I guess my train of thought is when you are operating in a non PvP environment in a post 2.4 world is there a need for lacerate?

Again this is all said as an up and commer but now only an armchair quarterback. Actually the chief driver behind this is button placement on my hotbars :D

I believe the threat generated on a single mob by lacerate is greater than that of swipe until you are T4/5+ geared. And, in 2.4, Lacerate is getting a damage (hence threat) boost...
Lacerate: This ability now deals additional damage based on the attack power of the Druid.So, for single targets 3*Lacerate is better (until you have some awesome gear) than 3*Swipe.

So, for 2-3 mobs, swipe away (once 2.4 is released or when CC isn't an issue). For 4+ mobs, mouseover swipe. For single mobs, Lacerate.

Let all of your white damage and Mangles land on your primary target. Maul them when you have excess rage (60+).