I'm part of a very large (~480 toons, ~300 account), very casual guild. We have 1-2 partial Kara runs every other week. I think we have cleared Kara once (months ago). We have one person that leads both groups. Not real sure why, but that's the way we do it. Once 2.4 is released, I think we'll have an opportunity to make more Kara runs since we will no longer need to get everyone key'd.

While I say "we" I haven't been in Kara with this guild (or with my Druid). I ran thru Curator a couple of times with my Hunter on another server. That's it. I wasn't a leader. I'm still not sure if I want to, but I'm thinking I might talk to the guild leadership about offering to run (lead) a late night Kara group. But before I ask/commit, I'd like to know if there is a good, well written, guide to Kara. Not just boss tactics, but trash, weird pulls, order issues, etc.

Know of a good online guide somewhere? Post the link...

Wowwiki (http://www.wowwiki.com/Karazhan) ???

I saw that one and read a couple that are linked off of it. I just figured there would be more on the trash pulls, etc. Most guides seem to focus just on the bosses.

Trash pulls are all about killing anything that can CC you first.

Or pulling far enough back so you won't get feared into anything else.

Wowwiki has all the trash mobs too so that's great.

Honestly boss fights and trash pulls alike are about figuring out what you can do with the group you have.

I've been a raid leader in KZ for 9 months. I've pulled off more crazy stuff that people stared at me and said there is no way you can do that. The hard part about leading a raid is not finding a strategy. The hard part is learning when to throw the rule book out and try something different. Lots of people have told me I'm nuts. Lots of people were proven wrong. We've full cleared KZ. After 9 months I've just handed the reigns over to someone else to run it. I've moved on to my next challenges in ZA and SSC.

Now for your question, Wowwiki is a great source. However some strategies I've never seen out there that we use. Here is a small sampling:
1. After the library room with the large arcane guardians, we do pally pulls for the rooms leading up to Aran. Once you get past the room with the void walkers we pull one entire room at a time and have them tanked by a pally. We burn down packs of four or in the case of the warlock room, 9 at a time. It cut like 30 minutes out of our trash clears.
2. At the entrance to the Opera if you don't have a priest available, we've leveraged hunter pets as sacrifices. We plant two hunter pets at the far end of the room. One guard is misdirected to the pets. The other is fast burned. About the time the other gets back he'll eat a healer or two and then the tank can pick him up. Its painful, but its better than stopping because you don't have a priest.

im not shure if they are immune, but what about freezing traps?
are they immune to cyclone?

The packs right at the outside of the Opera are 100% immune to CC except for Shackle

The packs right at the outside of the Opera are 100% immune to CC except for ShackleYou're talking about the ones you run into walking up the ramp/stairs before you get to the MC for the Opera, correct?

The hard part is learning when to throw the rule book out and try something different. Lots of people have told me I'm nuts. Lots of people were proven wrong.


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Seriously, if you learn what each class/spec can or can not do, you'll be able to come up with your own strategies based on what your group make-up is like.

Nothing better than saying "Ok, let's try this..." and it working!

You're talking about the ones you run into walking up the ramp/stairs before you get to the MC for the Opera, correct?

No. Well ok in the Opera area there are three sets of packs.

Lets call the first the bouncers. They guard the doors to the Opera house. They look like huge skeletal armored guards. Those guys can't be CC'd by anything other than Shackle. They MUST be killed before you can get to the actors and stage hands. There are two sets of two and one single pull if you do it right. The biggest problem with these guys is that they will "icetomb" your main tank and hit way too hard to have your OT tanking two. So your dps has to stay below the threat of the MT and OT and then you have to fight them one at a time.

The next type is Stage hands. They cannot be CC'd at all. They just require timing the pull right so you don't get multiples of them.

The third type is your actors. They come in packs of two and aren't bad unless they
a) put your second tank to sleep
or b) happen to explode in the clothies (oh yeah... they explode when you kill them.)

A few general tips on raid leading, speaking from my own experience (and in some cases, my own mistakes).

1. Always answer every question and whisper, unless it blatantly doesn't need or deserve a response, or the question was rhetorical. This is important.

2. Don't use undue force; likewise don't let people screw up and get away with it.

3. Try not to single people out. If a hunter is pulling aggro, address your comments to "ranged dps". So instead of "dkhunter stop pulling aggro damnit", you would say "ranged dps watch your aggro, i dont want to see any of you pulling again".

4. >imho< , possibly controversial, but I would say avoid using the word "please" when giving orders. :p

5. If people seem to be ignoring you, the best way to get them to listen is to do a ready check and type in raid chat, "Clear chat guys".
If anyone continues speaking, tell them " < insert person's name >, can you clear the chat please, so i can do tactics" (yes, name them for this particular offence...and use Please).

6. Take on board others' suggestions, but be swift and righteous on your decisions of what the plan is going to be.

7. Don't procrastinate! Keep the raid moving. A raid's success is judged largely by the pace at which it occurs. Don't let buffing after a wipe occupy half an hour of everyone's time.


-Annikk

I did one of the hardest things a raid leader ever has to do during a raid. In our guild we try to value people over the game but we are advancing in a great pace through raid progression and currently 5/6SSC and 3/4TK. Our only dps warrior is way below the dps chart even against tanks. So I had to ask him to leave to make room for a mage.

I felt really bad but we went on and got crappy loot.

Point him toward tankspot.com