http://wotlkwiki.info/talent/druid.html?b=9ze5320213232c12533120531051005503012 r

Here's mine. :>


-Annikk

I agree that King of the Jungle and Imp Mangle both seem sort of weak. But with all the new changes to Tiger Fury (no energy cost, 30s cooldown), I have to wonder if King of the Jungle might be great for Kitty. Primal Aggression seems a bit weak as well considering it is nearly at the bottom of the Feral tree. It seems to be too much of a PvP talent for my tastes.

And in the resto tree I just can't see wasting 5 points to get 4% crit (kitty) or 4% damage (bear). I just hate it when they make us waste points on a stupid talent (natural shapeshifter) to get to a dependency.

One thing I will say about the new tree (to date) is that it actually makes you make decisions about your talents. Current trees (for Druids and Hunters) are fairly cookie cutter.

Um... for raiding the 5 expertise is pretty cool. Once you are hit capped (not that hard to obtain) expertise is going to make sure you never miss. That is a godsend for the raiding DPS druid.

Um... for raiding the 5 expertise is pretty cool. Which talent are you referencing?

Primal Precision... for some reason I got it confused with your comments on Primal Aggression. Sorry for the confusion.. please move along :p

Yea, Primal Precision is definately a group PvE kitty talent with little benefit to Bears. Though I guess you'd get 10 expertise which ain't bad, but not if there are "better" bear talents to buy.

The one thing I can't find information on is mana regen while in forms. I thought I had read somewhere that while in feral forms, you will no longer regen mana in order to limit power shifting. But I don't see any mention of this on the wiki site.

This would also have a negative affect on leveling. Which may be why it has been removed?????

Well currently (ie in Warcraft right now) druids do not benefit from mp5 while in forms. I think it's rather unlikely they would also remove our regen from spirit, too.. But you never know I guess.

On Master Shapeshifter:
I am thinking I will probably go for a lot more pvp in the expo. I've chosen talents that I think will be handy for pvp. In the event, I think 4% crit for cat form is 2 points well spent. The prerequisite Natural Shapeshifter is a pain, but 30% reduced shifting cost will help a lot with being flexible in pvp situations, giving me more freedom to shift when the situation demands it without worrying too much about mana costs.

King of the Jungle is a rather nice talent but to be honest with the amount of energy I already generate, and the amount I will actually be able to use in a pvp situation, I can't really justify putting 3 points into it.
Of course it would be quite nice for bear form as well, the 15% damage is pretty awesome, but I just don't see it being useful enough for pvp. I might change my mind later though, we'll see I guess.

I am just going to have to hope that 15 seconds (Berserk) will prove long enough for me to rip everything to strips. My shreds will be down to 21 energy each which is practically a shred every tick, not counting OOC procs. The Infected Wounds should help a lot - not being able to slow my enemies is really troublesome sometimes. Now cat drood has permanent crippling poison :>


-Annikk

Not sure if you saw this, but there has been a subtle change to Predatory Strikes (currently a nearly worthless talent) in WotLK. In addition to the current buff you get 20% of the AP on your current weapon as a buff as well. So, with a +1000AP weapon (what I assume will be a lvl 71-73 quest reward), I get an additional 200AP (not sure if +agi==>AP gets the buff or not). That's quite a boost.

After looking at your spec, I figured you were going for PvP talents. Though King of the Jungle looks like an awesome PvP talent if you ask me. Basically it gives you at least 160 energy (180 with a "perfectly timed first attack") for burst attacks. That doesn't include energy ticks that will occur while you are spending the 180 energy or an OoC proc. So, with KoJ and an OoC proc we are talking about the equivalent of 220-240 energy into a single target. That would crush just about anyone. And you can do it every 30s.

Somewhere on the wiki site they also mention that the "additional energy converted to damage by FB is now scaled by AP". There are a handful of new buffs to FB, making it even "better" than it is today for PvP. With KoJ, FB buff, infected wounds, etc. a kitty will actually be something to fear in PvP. Even if they suck like I do.

The cooldown on Berserk is listed as 5 minutes, not 30 seconds. Where are you getting 30 seconds from?

y reasoning was that Berserk reduces energy costs so much that I would be doing well to use all my energy anyway.


-Annikk

Where are you getting 30 seconds from?Tiger's Fury is now 0 energy with a 30s cooldown. When you hit Tiger's Fury and you have KotJ, you get 60 energy along with the TF AP buff. It seems a tad IMBA if you ask me.

That's not the mechanic as I understood it from the tooltip.

As far as I'm aware, Tiger's Fury does the same thing as it does presently, but in the expo it will have 0 energy cost.

Now in the expo if you use berserk, then using Tiger's Fury will grant you an instant 20 energy. If as you say Tiger's Fury has a 30 second cooldown, then I am essentially paying 3 talent points in order to get 20 energy whenever I use my 5 minute cooldown.

Still doesn't seem worth it to me.. perhaps I have misunderstood how it is intended to work, though?


-Annikk

As far as I'm aware, Tiger's Fury does the same thing as it does presently, but in the expo it will have 0 energy cost.That is correct. However, if you have King of the Jungle (3/3) you will also "instantly" receive 60 energy when you use your Tiger's Fury.

Ah it's 60. 20 per point. That's why I was confused..

I'm still not convinced that I would need extra energy when all my moves are halfprice anyway..


-Annikk

I'm still not convinced that I would need extra energy when all my moves are halfprice anywayUnderstood, but Berserk has a 5min CD whereas TF has a 30s cooldown which means you can use Berserk maybe once in an arena fight. And only 2-3 times in a BG. Whereas TF could be used quite often. It would be great to use right after you have had to shift out to caster form to heal, root, cyclone or from bear after charge (though you can now charge in cat form!!!!).

Think of this...Kitty charge (30E??)--Shred (or mangle)--TF (+60E and AP boost)--mangle/shred..... every 30s. That's BG kitty's dream.

No dude, you only get the 60 energy from TF if you have the Berserk buff up.

The rest of the time you don't get any energy from it.

[edit - actually it's unclear which way it works from the tooltip, hmm...]


-Annikk

[edit - actually it's unclear which way it works from the tooltip, hmm...]Yeah, as it written now on the wiki site, I don't see any mention of Berserk in the KotJ talent.

As I understand it, KotJ seem like a better Kitty talent than a bear talent. As I don't often use enrage while I'm in combat. Though maybe now I will. I could see...

Caster form --> Root 'X' to pull
Shift to bear
enrage --> start smacking skull and other mobs.

Interesting how now I can be a tank and (short-term) CC.

http://wotlkwiki.info/talent/druid.html?b=9ze5320213232c12533120531051005503012 r

In the talent calculator I linked at the start of this thread, it specifies:

King of the Jungle (3/3) "While Enraged in Bear Form or Dire Bear form, your damage is icnreased by 15%< and your Tiger's Fury ability also instantly restores 60 energy."


Difficult to tell from that whether they mean you only get the energy if you use Tiger's Fury while berserking, or if that mechanic only applies to bear berserk.


-Annikk

King of the Jungle (3/3) "While Enraged in Bear Form or Dire Bear form, your damage is icnreased by 15%< and your Tiger's Fury ability also instantly restores 60 energy."

Difficult to tell from that whether they mean you only get the energy if you use Tiger's Fury while berserking, or if that mechanic only applies to bear berserk.The bear buff on KotJ is affected by Enrage (an existing bear skill) not Berserking (a new talent). And you can't Enrage in cat form. Though the "new" Tiger's Fury is analogous to a bear's enrage which is probably why both are buffed by KotJ.

Oh I see. I r n00b :p

Hmm it is pretty nice in that case. I shall have to rethink a little..


-Annikk

Oh I see. I r n00bDon't feel bad, I've done the same thing. You get one super sweet idea in your head like "Berserk" and everything starts to read "Berserk" even when it clearly doesn't. For bear PvE, I still don't quite see how Berserk will be used. The cooldown is too long to be useful on multi-mob pulls to aid with AoE tanking. Maybe that is the only time it will be used for non-elite AoE pulls? And, of course to break fear, stun, etc. from boss mobs. The later is nice, but I live without it today.

So, what spec (for leveling) will you start with at lvl 70? I'm still trying to figure that out. Given the way some of the new talents seem to favor one form over another, or one type of fighting (PvE or PvP), I assume my leveling spec may be different than what I end-up with at lvl 80.

Two of new talents have me really confused are Improved Mangle and Infected Wounds.

IW looks great but I can't see how I'd ever get 5 stacks (as a bear), unless the 12s timer is reset every time you apply a new Maul, or Mangle. And if that is true, then why does a bear need Imp Mangle? Cutting 1.4s off Mangle's cooldown doesn't seem all that great for PvE. And the energy savings for Mangle(Cat) don't seem that impressive either.

As I understand it now, IW seems to be more of a sweet PvP talent. But maybe there will be new mob skills that will require players to reduce their attack speed to survive. Otherwise attack speed reduction seems like a bad idea for a tank as it would reduce rage generation.

I will say that IW is nice while leveling when you have to deal with fleeing mobs (humanoids). The "Mangle Mash" would put 3-5 stacks of IW on the target making them run 30-50% slower. Which makes it a nice (in some scenarios) leveling talent.

I think we need to make a new thread in which we have short descriptions or "reviews" about new (Feral) talents/skills and their potential impact on solo questing, bear PvE, Kitty PvE and PvP. As so many of the new talents seem to be good for one thing, but a waste of points for others. Maybe I'll start something this long weekend since I can't play (I'll be with family for the 4th weekend), but I do have access to a computer.

I don't know about IW being good for levelling really. The humanoids running away scenario is fair enough but to be honest whilst grinding the ferocious bite usually happens before the run-away threshold and is enough to kill them outright.

I need to sit and think a lot more about the relationship between all these talents. I shall consult the loremaster and I am sure between us we will get the world sorted out ;)


-Annikk