View Full Forums : WotLK Beta news....


tlbj6142
07-18-2008, 09:15 AM
From www.resto4life.com....

General Changes Affecting Druids

* Spellpower
o All items and effects which grant bonuses to spell damage and spell healing are being consolidated into a single stat, Spellpower. This stat will appear with the same values found on items which grant “increased spell damage and healing” such as on typical Mage and Warlock itemization.
o For classes which do not heal, they should see no change in the character sheet other than new tooltip wording.
o Healing characters will see their bonus healing numbers on the character sheet decrease, however, all healing spells have been modified to receive more benefit from spellpower than they received from bonus healing, with a net effect of no change to the amount healed by their spells. Some talents have had to be rebalanced to accommodate this change, but the amount healed will remain roughly the same. In addition, some talents will provide only healing spell power.
* Overhealing is now reported in the combat log.
* The Warrior skill Hamstring now only has one rank and no longer causes damage.

General Druid Changes

* Brambles (Balance): Now increases the damage done by your Treants, and also damage caused from your Treants and Barkskin has a 5/10/15% chance to Daze the target for 3 sec.
* Entangling Roots: Can now be used indoors.
* Improved Mark of the Wild (Restoration): Now a 2-point talent, down from a 5-point talent.
* Nature’s Grasp (Balance): Can now be used and can proc indoors.
* New Spell: Revive - Returns the spirit to the body, restoring a dead target to life with health and mana. Cannot be cast when in combat.
* Omen of Clarity (Restoration): Now a passive spell. Now also works for spells (healing and damage). Proc rate is roughly 6% with a 10 second internal cooldown.
* Soothe Animal can now be used on Dragonkin as well as Beasts and is now instant cast.

Balance Changes

* Celestial Focus (Balance): The stun proc now works with Starfall.
* Focused Starlight (Balance): Now also works with Starfall.
* Force of Nature (Balance): Cooldown reduced to 2 minutes, down from 3.
* Hurricane: No longer has a cooldown (was 1 minute).
* Moonglow (Balance): Now also works with Starfall.
* Moonkin Form (Balance) no longer increases your attack power or causes you to regenerate mana off melee attacks, but now has a chance to cause you to instantly regenerate 2% of your total mana every time you critically hit with a spell.
* Nature’s Grace (Balance): Now also reduces the global cooldown of your Wrath spell by 50% while in effect.
* Nature’s Grasp (Balance): Can now be used and can proc indoors.
* Nature’s Reach (Balance): Now also reduces threat generated by Balance spells by 15/30%.
* Balance-specific threat management for Balance can now be found in the Balance tree, within Nature’s Reach.
* Vengeance (Balance): Now also works with Starfall.

Feral Changes

* Faerie Fire (Feral): Now an 11-point talent, down from being a 21-point talent.
* Feral Charge (Feral) is now a 21-point talent, up from being a 11-point talent.
* Feral Charge (Feral): Can now be used in Cat form.
* Feral Instinct (Feral) no longer increases threat generated in Bear form, but now increases damage done by your Swipe ability by 5/10/15%.
* Improved Faerie Fire (Feral): Now also works with spell hit, in addition to ranged and melee hit %.
* Mangle (Feral): Now increases the damage done by Maul in addition to Shred.
* Primal Tenacity (Feral) now reduces damage while stunned by 5/10/15%, and reduces the duration of fear effects by 5/10/15%.
* Survival of the Fittest (Feral): Increased to 2/4/6%, up from 1/2/3%.
* The mana regeneration penalty when in Bear Form, Dire Bear Form and Cat Form has been removed.

Restoration Changes

* Improved Tranquility (Restoration): Now also reduces the cooldown of your Tranquility spell by 25/50%.
* Nature’s Focus (Restoration): Now a 3 point talent, down from a 5-point talent. Also moved to Tier 1, up from Tier 2. Now also includes Nourish.
* Remove Curse can now be used in Tree of Life form.
* Subtlety (Restoration): Now a 3-point talent, down from a 5-point talent. Also moved to Tier 2, up from Tier 3. Also now only reduced threat for Restoration spells, and reduces the chance that your healing over time spells (Lifebloom, Regrowth and Rejuvenation) will be dispelled, rather than all Druid spells.
* Tranquil Spirit (Restoration) now also includes Nourish.
* Tree of Life (Restoration): 30% snare penalty has been removed.
* Tree of Life (Restoration): Can now cast Dispel Curse.
* Tree of Life (Restoration): You can now cast all Restoration spells (Healing Touch) in the form, but Tree of Life now only reduces the mana cost of your healing over time spells (Rejuvenation, Lifebloom, Regrowth and Flourish) by 20%.

tlbj6142
07-18-2008, 09:17 AM
At first I didn't like the changes to OoC as the proc rate seems stupid low to me. No way it is 4% right now. Well according to wowhead comments, it is ~3.3% in cat form and 10% in bear. So, it is a nice boost to cat and a bit of nerf to bear.

And the changes to Feral Instinct to no longer boost bear threat. Yikes. WTF. Maybe all bears will get a threat increase?

Araxx Darkroot
07-18-2008, 09:33 AM
* Entangling Roots: Can now be used indoors.

OMG!!! Will that make us too powerful??? ;)

tlbj6142
07-18-2008, 10:10 AM
OMG!!! Will that make us too powerful??? ;)It finally gives us some CC. Now I can be a tank with CC, a healer with CC, DPS with CC, caster with CC. This is really nice. Especially for moonkins.

Not sure it OP, but it is nice. Trees also get an out of combat rez. That alone might make me switch to resto (healing) when I hit lvl 80.

tlbj6142
07-18-2008, 11:23 AM
Just read this (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=52610). A new finishing move (Lockjaw from the Alpha has been removed).


Lockjaw (Feral) replaced with Savage Roar:
Savage Roar (Rank 1)
25 Energy 100 yd range <--- What's up with everything having a 100yd range initially???
Instant
Finishing move that increases attack power by 25%. Lasts longer per combo point:
1 point : 9 seconds
2 points: 12 seconds
3 points: 15 seconds
4 points: 18 seconds
5 points: 21 seconds
Does this stack? Seems like we could have 2-3 up at once if it does. If not, we'd have to alternate between Rip and this during PvE cycles???

Annikk
07-18-2008, 11:26 AM
* Feral Instinct (Feral) no longer increases threat generated in Bear form, but now increases damage done by your Swipe ability by 5/10/15%.

This change is designed to put Protection Warriors back up at the top in terms of tanking a single mob, such as a raid boss.
It also allows druids to keep our current speciality which is tanking multiple mobs with swipe spam.

Seems like a good and positive change to me :>


-Annikk

Annikk
07-18-2008, 11:31 AM
Does this stack? Seems like we could have 2-3 up at once if it does. If not, we'd have to alternate between Rip and this during PvE cycles???

It's an interesting ability. First off I would suggest that this is intended to function in a similar way to Rogue's Slice and Dice ability. So going by that no, it will not stack. And yes, consequently the best response would seem to be to alternate this ability with Rip.

However it also opens up several new cans of worms in the process. This ability means that attack power will have a new attractiveness to druids, perhaps intended to pull cat druids back to prioritising strength and agility equally. Currently agility is largely the favoured stat.

I will save my theorycrafting until the exact stats of the ability have been finalised, though.


-Annikk

Kyane
07-18-2008, 11:45 AM
This change is designed to put Protection Warriors back up at the top in terms of tanking a single mob, such as a raid boss.
It also allows druids to keep our current speciality which is tanking multiple mobs with swipe spam.

Seems like a good and positive change to me :>


-Annikk

I have to disagree here. They specifically stated they want all tanks to be viable in end game. Swipe spam is ok, but Paladin > Swipe like it or not.

Warriors are getting a threat increase to Def stance ( going to 45% ) and we're getting a threat decrease. Seems a bit much, while I never really had issues tanking 5 mans this could cause issues for some.

tlbj6142
07-18-2008, 12:32 PM
Warriors are getting a threat increase to Def stance ( going to 45% ) and we're getting a threat decrease. Seems a bit much, while I never really had issues tanking 5 mans this could cause issues for some.I wonder if "bear form" (stance) is going to get a threat boost to make up for this loss?

Another thing this change does (if we don't get a base bear threat boost) is separate Kitty from Bear talent specs even more. As a bear, I'd pass over "Rend and Tear" (renamed from something else in the Alpha), but now it seems like I'd have to take it.

tlbj6142
07-18-2008, 01:11 PM
Did Primal Tenacity get better or worst? I never took it before (% seemed too low), but now it seems even weaker. Just as well, I don't have the talent points to spend any longer.

Oiysters
07-18-2008, 03:09 PM
Does this mean we'll have to include swipe while tanking single targets to maximize threat generation? I hate that change. It's hard enough pugging as a bear tank with damage meter happy mages and locks without my threat generation being nerfed. Without that threat generation coming from somewhere else, it will just make pallies even more the pug tank of choice.

It also looks like they are trying to encourage the use of Maul with the change to Mangle, which is less threat efficient currently. What am I missing?

Edit: Since when are Prot Warriors NOT the best for tanking single targets? Their bag of tricks is much more extensive than ours is.

tlbj6142
07-18-2008, 03:27 PM
Someone mentioned elsewhere (EJ???) that the +damage modifiers for existing skills ranks have been boosted. So, maybe that will make up for it.

Plus there are another talents that boost maul damage, mangle damage (improved mangle) and the global damage increase from master shapeshifter (which I assume every feral will take despite having to waste points in Natural Shapeshifter [damn you Blizzard]). So, in the end we may end up with more threat??? But it isn't obvious from the information we have today.

Taiglin
07-18-2008, 03:35 PM
I believe I read early this morning that bonus threat is being baked into specs. Further salvation is getting overhauled so that while it will reduce threat it will also reduce healing and damage. This might have some long reaching affects.

Falloraan
07-18-2008, 05:07 PM
I wonder if "bear form" (stance) is going to get a threat boost to make up for this loss?I'm sure it would have been mentioned if we were getting more threat in bear form. I am seeing a trend developing, and that trend seems to indicate that Death Knights and Warriors will share the spotlight in this expansion.
Did Primal Tenacity get better or worst? I never took it before (% seemed too low), but now it seems even weaker. Just as well, I don't have the talent points to spend any longer.
It's definitely worse now. Only reason I had it before was for the pvp prowl bonus, and the extra threat was gravy for pve. Now it's a very easy talent to skip getting.

I'm really not seeing the love that ferals need. They are fixing **** that should have been in the game on release (using pots in forms/weapon fury/weapon proc enchants), and all the ferals are in the streets dancing and drinking wine like it was water. But those changes don't even balance us with the current classes, let alone the new wotlk stuff. And the wotlk feral stuff doesn't blow me away like it should.

tlbj6142
07-18-2008, 08:53 PM
It's definitely worse now. Only reason I had it before was for the pvp prowl bonus, and the extra threat was gravy for pve. Now it's a very easy talent to skip getting.I was talking about Primal Tenacity (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=33957) not Feral Instinct. (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=16948)

tlbj6142
07-18-2008, 09:00 PM
I'm really not seeing the love that ferals need.Kitty PvE and PvP got a huge boost. As a bear I don't think we got one new skill. Imp Mangle (which seems very weak) and Master Shapeshifter are the only real improvements for bear. But they could just offset the loses from the change to Primal Instinct.

The two things all Druids have to be happy with is that we now have a so-so (it can break itself) CC for 5-mans regardless of our primary role (tank, melee dps, healer, caster) and an OoC Rez.

Oiysters
07-18-2008, 11:00 PM
From some reading I did earlier today on EJ, the current theory is indeed that they expect us to generate extra threat based on damage increases from the higher level skills.

Things are looking pretty rosy for when I'm resto specced, and cat seems promising, but bear...meh.

tlbj6142
07-21-2008, 09:21 AM
Things are looking pretty rosy for when I'm resto specced, and cat seems promising, but bear...meh.Agree. Bear seems to have zero real changes. Kitty seems to have gotten a big boost (especially in PvP) and Resto (for PvE) seems great. I haven't followed the moonkin changes, so I can't comment on those.

I wonder if Blizzard is pushing the Druid back into a healer role since the stupid DK will be a tanking class. The changes to resto certainly seem to boost 5-man skills as well. Making it a bit easier for someone to pickup/learn the skills. I just might switch to resto once I hit 80. Someone is going to have to heal all those DKs running around.

Annikk
07-21-2008, 11:16 AM
My flatmate is making a death knight. He has already reserved the name. "Doomface".

Just sayin. :p


-Annikk

Allahanastar
07-22-2008, 08:29 AM
Ok first impressions:

The feral changes for kitty are amazing!!!! They actually made Tiger's Fury useful. I smack it every time the damned cooldown is up. Its kind of like Adreneline Rush now. So you get huge amounts of energy all at once. So you drain your energy down, smack it, keep pounding out abilities. With the %increase in AP to Feral staffs, I'm doing some hefty damage. I'd say easily a 20-30% increase in DPS just by feel.

tlbj6142
07-22-2008, 09:19 AM
With the %increase in AP to Feral staffs, I'm doing some hefty damage. I'd say easily a 20-30% increase in DPS just by feel.I take it you are in the beta? If so, find out if IW works on boss mobs.

tlbj6142
07-22-2008, 09:23 AM
The feral changes for kitty are amazing!!!!It is obvious that the kitty got lots of love in the current beta tree and skills (SR!). But it sort of seems like they may have weakened, or at least stagnated, bear tanking. That is just from looking at the talent tree. Maybe there are other changes not reflected in the tree that make up for the apparent unbearable changes in the Feral tree.:grin:

Allahanastar
07-22-2008, 11:19 AM
Yeah I got a beta key yesterday. I'll check out if IW works on boss mobs. Its one of my goals for the week to test out both of the instances in the early lvl 70 range. Thus far I'm not seeing a wealth of what I'd deem Feral druid gear. Maybe I'm missing something in the way the talents have reitemized druids, but its all rogue gear. There is a very nice staff for people who haven't gotten the badge gear, but overall, the gear has been Meh... but I'm in a mix of badge gear, Kara, ZA and T5. So I don't expect to see upgrades till the next zone or two.

tlbj6142
07-22-2008, 12:51 PM
Thus far I'm not seeing a wealth of what I'd deem Feral druid gear. Maybe I'm missing something in the way the talents have reitemized druids, but its all rogue gear. From what I have read on EJ and elsewhere, we will share gear with rogues quite often in the expansion. Though I'm not sure where they expect us to get +armor for our bear tanking.

Yrys
07-23-2008, 02:41 PM
Not really druid-related info, but I thought this was pretty cool -- mounts and non-combat pets won't take up inventory slots after WotLK comes out.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=8202535862&sid=1

Vika
07-23-2008, 06:58 PM
I noticed on the talents for WotLK that Nature's Grasp still states "only works outdoors".

I'm assuming that's a misprint now. I hope...

If anyone in the beta can verify that would be cool.

Allahanastar
07-24-2008, 11:44 AM
Yeah druid armor hasn't been there. I'm going to comment on quest rewards about that, but its all rogue gear thus far. The new druid staffs are nice for new druids. It gives you a very nice boost, but still won't over take the purple ones you get yet in Outland. By 62-64 I think I'll seriously have to start looking for upgrades. If I get into a dungeon group tonight I may have to really look at the gear that drops.

Its been ages, but does haste do squat for druids? I thought haste only helped lower your attack speed for melee and we already have the lowest attack speed you can get. Plus most of our abilities don't have a cast time.... so unless I'm missing something there really isn't a lot of feral gear out there in armor.

tlbj6142
07-24-2008, 11:53 AM
I have read that we will get armor from weapons, rings, trinkets and neck(?) slots. Otherwise we will just use rogue gear for both bear and cat.

Yeah, haste doesn't do crap for Cat form except lower your attack speed which is already at 1.0 (yes you can have a sub 1s attack speed).

For bears, I would think haste would be nice to help generate extra threat and reduce th GCD.

Allahanastar
07-26-2008, 02:35 PM
Honestly. We'd have to get a TON of armor out of those slots to make up the difference... Average Lvl 138 Rogue chest piece.... 400 armor. My T4 chest piece 640. There is NO way we can make up that much difference across all of the pieces. Basically we'd have trinkets and such that would only give us Armor and nothing else. We need the dodge rating etc...

And NO IW doesn't work on boss mobs.

tlbj6142
07-26-2008, 04:42 PM
And NO IW doesn't work on boss mobs.Guess that makes it a PvP only talent. Damn. I sort of wanted it for leveling.

Allahanastar
07-26-2008, 05:51 PM
Its not bad. I use it on mobs and it should eliminate runners (I have yet to meet one.) I spec'd into it for testing and I'm not sure if I'll keep it. Berserk is really nice. Its a great kind of "all in" ability. I rarely run out of energy when I combine Berserk and Tiger's Fury.

tlbj6142
07-26-2008, 07:16 PM
Its not bad. I use it on mobs and it should eliminate runners (I have yet to meet one.)Anyone else notice that old world humanoids are far more likely to be runners than Outland humanoids. I don't recall all that many while leveling in the Outlands (though I dinged 70 about 2/3 of the way thru BEM with both toons), while in the old world there were quite a few mobs that ran.

While I didn't like it all that much, it was sort of neat having all humanoids run. I, for one, wish Blizzard was more consistent about making all humanoids runners.

tlbj6142
07-28-2008, 12:25 PM
And NO IW doesn't work on boss mobs.According to a recent post on EJ, it does??

I also talked to a Feral in beta who said that Infected Wounds does (http://wowthinktank.blogspot.com/2008/07/druid-what-gear-to-get-for-wotlk.html?showComment=1217011860000#c869894760357 0895780) work on bosses. Although, it seems IW will be the same as Improved Thunderclap or the Judgement boost pallies got so if you have those in the raid you wouldn't need IW in your build at 80.

Allahanastar
07-28-2008, 01:28 PM
All I can speak to is my experience in Nexus. When I was in Nexus perhaps most of those mobs are immune to the effect. Once or twice I saw the debuff show up to be instantly removed. I never got it stacked.

tlbj6142
07-28-2008, 03:12 PM
Again from EJ...

DKs will also eat the debuff repeatedly w/ obliterate and a few of there other abilitiesSo, did you have a DK in your group?

Allahanastar
07-28-2008, 04:44 PM
God I didn't even think of that. We had a Death Knight in there with us. So yeah its possible he was eating it as frequently as I was putting it on.

tlbj6142
07-28-2008, 09:03 PM
God I didn't even think of that. We had a Death Knight in there with us. So yeah its possible he was eating it as frequently as I was putting it on.That was probably it. There appears to be DK bug in that their abilities "eat" diseases other than their own.