View Full Forums : Blue post / Feral information


Claritondeus
10-29-2008, 08:23 PM
Interesting.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/2/12065146837-ghostcrawler--any-news.html

tlbj6142
10-29-2008, 10:49 PM
My favorite quote from GC...
We considered a model where the druid was the jack of all trades and master of all, but decided that might cause problems.

...that's funny and ought to shut-up the QQ'ers.

tlbj6142
10-29-2008, 10:53 PM
And this one, too. Where someone complains about PvP gear being better than PvE gear in LK for bears...

If we start getting a lot of reports about how bears can't hold aggro, I'm going to immediately look to see if they are wearing resilience gear.You have to give GC credit. He is great at subtly.

Oiysters
10-30-2008, 02:53 AM
My question is who ever said we don't want block or parry?

s3Rgio
10-30-2008, 03:45 AM
I see all the changes to bear-tanking in a positiv way.

Blizzard just took away the ability to do max-dps and tank and pvp at the same time without a loss in special talents of the specific built.
We can still do all with one built. Just not at the max.

Kheldar
10-30-2008, 05:13 AM
can't read that mmo post via firewall but i have enjoyed doing heroics the past 2 nights...

i guess they have also been slightly nerfed in sonme ways ? but i was generating sooo much more threat and never had a problem with any dps taking mobs away.

and swipe hitting multi mobs now that is *AWESOME* :grin:

Solarflash
10-30-2008, 07:53 AM
Threat is no longer a concern!

Any dumbby in bear form can hold threat, which is causing me to have mixed feelings. I was always regarded as a "good tank" because of my ability to quickly generate threat. Now I can easily steal aggro from my OT without ever taunting, but the fact is the OT still has 20%-30% threat over the top DPSer. So my ability to generate threat is a moot point. Its like being able to heal for 15k, when your target has 8k health...impressive, but useless!

On the other hand, mitigation has become a more active process with the adddition of SI and Barkskin in Bear form. I have found that I now mitigate better than most warriors because I can reduce damage by 20% when ever a target enrages or I am AoE tanking.

Kheldar
10-30-2008, 08:40 AM
/cry

i'm a dumbby then

:rolling:

Solarflash
10-30-2008, 09:10 AM
Sorry, Kheldar.

I doubt that, you probably just have some uber or unintellegent DPS behind you! Mangle + Maul = uber threat. It could be my spec too... I dumped all of the frills from the resto tree in order to pickup some DPS talents in the Feral Tree.

tlbj6142
10-30-2008, 09:22 AM
and swipe hitting multi mobs now that is *AWESOME* :grin:Last night was the first time I had a chance to tank a 5-man heroic (Shattered Halls and Sethek Halls). Swipe with the Maul glyph made me feel like a Pally! It was great.

I will say that I did have to tank in my tanking kit (T4/S2/badge). I have read several places that you can tank in your cat gear, but with more than 2 mobs on me it was too much stress on the healer.

s3Rgio
10-30-2008, 09:52 AM
I have read several places that you can tank in your cat gear, but with more than 2 mobs on me it was too much stress on the healer.

i have no pvp-equip for my feral-druid.
so the difference between cat- and bear-gear:
cat/bear armor: 14k / 22k
cat/bear life: 14k / 22-23k

so i wouldnt want to tank in my cat-gear ;)

tlbj6142
10-30-2008, 09:59 AM
so i wouldnt want to tank in my cat-gear ;)I'm probably in the same scenario. Must those T6+ folks that can tank heroics in their cat gear. Or, maybe, their cat gear is PvP gear which still has "green" armor and good DPS stats.

Rorgg
10-30-2008, 10:22 AM
My question is who ever said we don't want block or parry?
He meant that since we don't have the abilities, the stats that raise them are wasted on us.

With the removal of the extra armor and such, my cat and bear kits are much, much closer than before -- besides the Weapon, which can be hot-swapped, the Cloak, Rings, and Trinkets are the only ones with notable differences. I may have different items in the other slots, but it'd be the difference of a few STA vs. a few AP or STR. Hardly a gamebreaker.

Kheldar
10-30-2008, 10:33 AM
Last night was the first time I had a chance to tank a 5-man heroic (Shattered Halls and Sethek Halls). Swipe with the Maul glyph made me feel like a Pally! It was great.

I will say that I did have to tank in my tanking kit (T4/S2/badge). I have read several places that you can tank in your cat gear, but with more than 2 mobs on me it was too much stress on the healer.
yeah not sure my cat gear would be ok for heroics although to be fair i've not looked to see if now with the patch there is less to stop me keeping a more uniform set apart from rings/trinkets etc as mentioned.

i've certainly not worried the past couple nites about breaking cc cos i can seemingly hold multi mobs quite easily now and just let the dps burn down the pack on me 1 at a time ? does not unduly seem to have stressed the healer either....

i'm now down to only 22.5k armour and about 17.5k ish irrc HP with a priest buff?

skwidrific
10-30-2008, 10:37 AM
i came into a heroic Shattered Halls run after they downed the first boss as dps wearing mah PvP gearz... group was: tankadin, mage (frost i think) hunter, resto shammy, and myself... it was just a mess... took as a few tries to get down the hallway, then the next hallway, we kept wiping on the first pull (didn't pay attention to a pat in one case, and the group across the hall kept pulling for some reason, i think the huntard)
the tankadin is an alt, and i didn't check her gear, but this was the same tank that i mentioned in an earlier post about a nightmare heroic underbog run... it was SO easy to take aggro from her... i would start out in cat, and if i crit a couple times, i would get beat on... if i was getting beat i shifted to bear (for survivability) and pop barkskin... by that time, either the tank or the healer was dead... if i hit swipe ONCE, all aggro was on me...

i guessi posted for 2 reasons:
Swipe generated a TON of threat, and

wtf is the pally doing wrong? i need to check her gear again, and maybe make some tanking suggestions (and i need to be subtle about it, cause she's the GM's girlfriend and an AWESOME lock) i ran her Arc a week ago with a tankadin, a healadin, and 2 rogues, and we burned the place to the ground... yet i can snatch aggro from this chick like cake...

this is her armory link:http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Crushridge&n=Ophielina

(another thing i noticed was that NONE of the resto shammy's gear was 'chanted, and i won't be running with him anymore)

Solarflash
10-30-2008, 12:12 PM
i guessi posted for 2 reasons:
Swipe generated a TON of threat, and

wtf is the pally doing wrong?

The only way your swipe would steal her aggro is if the pally has no spell power or forgetting to concecrate.

Oiysters
10-30-2008, 02:41 PM
The only way your swipe would steal her aggro is if the pally has no spell power or forgetting to concecrate.

QFT LOL. My pally tanking buddy pisses me off to no end when we're trying to split mobs and he drops a consecrate under mine.

Oiysters
10-30-2008, 05:05 PM
I realize maintaining threat is trivial at level 70. I don't think it will be that easy at 80. Consider that we did just buff boss armor, which is a nerf to bear threat. We also designed Naxx to be pretty easy in part because early Karazhan was not. But that doesn't mean you'll waltz through all the Lich King raid content. As a secondary (or tertiary or whatever I'm on now) point, also remember that we did buff tank damage. Part of that is because we want tanks to contribute damage. The days of tanks stacking nothing but effective health and relying on the rest of the group for dps are over. You might find an enrage timer that you can't hit because your tank's dps is so paltry.

Tanking is going to be FUN come 80!

Solarflash
10-31-2008, 09:04 AM
Tanking is going to be FUN come 80!

HeHe, tanking is fun now!!!

I have had the same issues with pally tanks stealing all my hate, but recently I have discovered the trick for stealing my aggro back!!!

Mangle, Lacerate, Maul, Maul, Mangle..

If your mangle or Maul crits, which is likely with the crazy stacking of agi from dps gear now, the pally will be left with nothing to do but look pretty in his shinny armor! :boohoo:

I have found that if I keep Lacerate up (and have R&T) my maul goes from a 1400-1500 crit to 2200+ crit with my regular hits well north of 1k. TPS is currently between 1500-2000 (if omen is actally working???). So even that 1500dps ret pally can't steal my hate!!! :P

s3Rgio
11-03-2008, 03:10 AM
I have found that if I keep Lacerate up (and have R&T) my maul goes from a 1400-1500 crit to 2200+ crit with my regular hits well north of 1k.

R&T gives +20% damage. So this would only be a 1800 hit.
Maybe u do that much more damage now cause u have more DPS gear on. But R&T alone wont give u that kind of buff.

Solarflash
11-03-2008, 07:58 AM
R&T gives +20% damage. So this would only be a 1800 hit.
Maybe u do that much more damage now cause u have more DPS gear on. But R&T alone wont give u that kind of buff.

There are many things that effect the increased damage, with buffs being raid wide, anything you do to +dmg your attacks are amplified. Also the 20% is a boost to base damage, so then your crits scale from there depending on talents and buffs.

s3Rgio
11-03-2008, 08:36 AM
My bad. I thought unbuffed.
Cause i do unbuffed around 1500 crits. So i thought the 2200 were also unbuffed.

Solarflash
11-03-2008, 09:47 AM
My bad. I thought unbuffed.
Cause i do unbuffed around 1500 crits. So i thought the 2200 were also unbuffed.

Oh how I wish. I am only T4/Badge, and 1 piece of T5 atm...:(

Although to be honest, I have no idea what I do unbuffed....I am never in bear form unbuffed! Only use it for raid.

Another big factor is what you are hitting...I <3 getting a hold of a clothy with FFF on them!!! So I guess my point is just that the extra points in R&T make holding aggro much easier and potentially even better single target threat generation than an equally geared pally.

ryan4nayr
11-03-2008, 07:04 PM
wtf is the pally doing wrong?
The only way your swipe would steal her aggro is if the pally has no spell power or forgetting to concecrate.
Paladin tanking has always been about the rotation with all our skills hanging on the "969696" discussed at EJ.com and none of them truly spammable. Consecrate is great but weaving Judgements, HoTR, HShield, wings and AoWrath throughout the fight ensures our threat builds constantly.

I would recommend she max out 1-Handed Weapon Specialization; +10% dmg to everything can't be ignored. HoTR relies solely on a high DPS weapon so that's a great short-term acquisition to aim for. She probably already knows to swap more spell power into strength so I won't go into that.

Back on topic :grin: My former guild's bear MT actually got so bored tanking post patch 3.0.2 that he tried out balance spec. However, the handful of bear tanks I've PUG'ed with didn't quite know how to handle their newfound powers though, unable to keep several mobs aggro-glued. Judging by that blue tracker link, many others also have trouble.

Oiysters
11-04-2008, 02:51 AM
The only trouble is that dps are lazy and spoiled by consecrate. With one button press a pally gets an instant puddle of threat that mobs have to stand in for 8 seconds, and consecrate threat > warlock seed threat. For bears, the dps must wait a couple GCD's before seed spamming or whatever. The only time a bear tank should ever have threat problems is in the situation I just described. Otherwise you're doing it wrong.:icon_lol:

Kheldar
11-04-2008, 02:51 AM
running a few heroics recently with some pug dps cc i've found it often easier just to grab multi mobs rather than rely on a hunter trapping/re trapping or a mage sorting a sheep.

cos otherwise u get the 'why did u (the tank) not pick up that wayward supposedly cc'd mob that went and 1 shotted the healer' !!

its not a problem playing with good people and those you know but can be a problem with a proper pug.

s3Rgio
11-04-2008, 04:04 AM
With the new talents there isnt really much problem to hold aggro of a couple of mobs. If u really wanna speed bomb your way through instances then make use of your cooldowns in trash.
I'm trying to make a rotation of my abilities in pulls with more than 3 mobs.
for example:
1. group: AOE-Taunt for beginning aggro (most of the time enough to burn down 1 or 2 targets and get aggro on the others)
2. group: Berserk
3. group: Huricane-Pull(if low rage), Enrage swipe swipe swipe (1 mangle on first-target, focus down first target for aggro gaining on the others)
4. group: same as 3.
and begin from the start.

3 min cooldowns on abilities is like nothing^^

BTW: if u catch me in my tanking gear then dont laugh.
YES i have the S3-Healing-Chest for tanking (never got a better one + 100 Stam and 500 armor on it)
Im feral for 3 weeks now and didnt have the time for 1800 arena-points :-(
and its a funny thought if u imagine that i am tanking Kalegos with this chest ;-)

Kheldar
11-04-2008, 07:26 AM
i always tanked in the Clefthoof Vest until getting the standard pvp one (not arena) then replacing that with the 100 badge one.

s3Rgio
11-04-2008, 07:59 AM
i always tanked in the Clefthoof Vest until getting the standard pvp one (not arena) then replacing that with the 100 badge one.

had the clefthoof myself, but then noticed that my S3-healing-chest has(pre 3.0):
- same armor
- + 50 stam
- more crit-immunity cause of mass resilence


i have now 115 badges to spend, but i dont know what to do.
my first thought was, that i dont buy a chest and try to get T4/5/6 of it. cause of the 3 slots which boost my stam pretty high.
But its 1 week before WotlK and i think i will buy the "Staff of the Forestlord" for smoother questing.

Solarflash
11-04-2008, 08:10 AM
Definatley hold out for the Staff of the Forestlord. You can just run Mag's for the T4 token if you really want a different chest. Its like a 20 min instance now.

I am not sure what your current staff is, but I am guessing the Forestlord is a much bigger upgrade in stats than the 100 badge chest. (plus the pvp armor is really nice post patch)

s3Rgio
11-04-2008, 09:03 AM
Currently my Staff is the "Staff of Primal Fury" out of ZA.
The badge-staff should give me a nice boost in DPS i think.

@Solarflash: Yep. Running Maggi weekly. Just no luck so far.
Bad thing is, that im not a top raider(skill yes; just no time ergo no DKP ;-D) and too many ppl are needing the T6-chest :-(

Solarflash
11-04-2008, 09:14 AM
Yeah, DKP can be the pits for a casual raider. I have been blessed since patch with good, fair pugs, where the loot is up to the dice!

I know its a loot system that will quickly fail after WotLK, but for now abandoning all DKP systems just makes sense for us. We are PuGing in 5-10 players a run. Plus, people seem to be pretty understanding about loot rules and fairness. So, cross your fingers...no drama yet!

Kheldar
11-04-2008, 03:40 PM
i'm aiming for 100 badges for a nice kitty or even oomkin item.

just ran heroic sethhek and ramps so got a few more badges.